Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

If there is WWIII because of the Middle East crisis, which side

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU
 
Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-01-06 05:06 PM
Original message
If there is WWIII because of the Middle East crisis, which side
Edited on Tue Aug-01-06 05:13 PM by Cleita
will the major powers take? You decide. Here are the players:

USA/Israel are absolutely wedded to each other whether right or wrong.

Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, UAE, Bahrain and Yemen, pretty much a package but whose side they will take remains in question although they claim to be friends of the US right now, but hate Israel. Big quandary for them here.

The rest of the Arab Middle East, including Iraq, never mind us being there, both extremist and moderate like Jordan will probably throw in together when the writing is on the wall.

Iran will probably side with the other Arab Muslim countries.

North Africa. There is Egypt, Libya, Morocco, and Algiers. Whose side will they take? Although Muslim, Egypt has a peace agreement with Israel. Morocco and Algiers are more progressive that the extremist Muslim countries of the Saudis and probably wouldn’t want to be aligned with them, so they probably will side with Israel/USA.

Hard to know about Libya, now that Bush and Khadafi are best friends.

The EU., Canada, Australia and New Zealand. Will they be our traditional allies? Will they try to sit it out in neutrality? Or, will they become our enemy by taking the Arab/Muslim side out of principle?

Russia and China? Will they fight with us or against us?

This could be explosive.

:nuke::nuke::nuke:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
iamahaingttta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-01-06 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
1. what do you mean "if"???
It's happening. Right now. Pay attention!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-01-06 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. So which country are going to be the players in this game?
You know it's nothing more than a game to the vampires who started this all?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nam78_two Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-01-06 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. I think
India and Japan would mostly try to stay out of it but support the US/Israel side if they had to.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MikeNearMcChord Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-01-06 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. If India joined, only because of Pakistan getting in the act.
As for Japan, they got enough on their plate with North Korea, and God that is a can of worms that does not need to be opened. The Russians and Chinese might sit it out just to see the "World's Great Superpower" falls face first, then come in to provide peace. Of course that is also contingent on nobody F***ing with China's oil supply, and hint hint, it will not be Hezbollah's fault if that happens.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-01-06 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. It is not happening. It's still regional
you'll know it when/if it does happen.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
iamahaingttta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-01-06 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Russia is fighting...
in Chechnya and has been for a decade, China has its own Islamic insurgency, but we just hear never about it.

It's a world war, folks. It's Islam against the world and the world against Islam. It sucks, but that's the reality of it. Just because the major powers are not fighting against each other, doesn't mean it's not WWIII. It's the clash of civilizations, and mark my words... 2007 and 2008 will be the bloodiest years in human history...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DireStrike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-01-06 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
7. I don't think it will happen unless Peak Oil is right
There would be no incentive for major powers with real weaponry to fight against the us/israeli side. Even if such countries as russia and china decide to jump in, they really can't beat us in that sort of war IMO.

The powers that have tech anywhere near capable of fighting the main US military in traditional warfare would side with us or stay neutral, content to watch and laugh as we slowly bleed to death in the desert sun. We would always have air superiority, and land superiority... until we need to get out of our tanks. The only place we lose is in an occupation. If it were an all out war we would bomb entire countries until they surrendered.

Even if they didn't, and we were driven off the land, we still have definite sea superiority. Nobody has the capacity to hurt the mainland US, unless South American countries decide to march up. They would be stopped anyway, but it would be something.

We won't see another war like WWII in the current environment. Maybe if Europe turned against America, but that's the only way I see it happening.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-01-06 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Two power things you mentioned that I thought about but
didn't put in this post. South America for one. It could be possible that Chavez might be able to round up a coalition of countries who are fed up with the USA. Second the EU not wanting to be involved but what if they decide they can't stay out?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Spearman87 Donating Member (252 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-01-06 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. I think this is pretty much on the mark
When it comes to a “traditional world war”. Cleita, I’ll ignore thet fact that just last week I argued here that WWIII has already commenced :) (a new kind of world war, Radical Islam versus modern, Westerned societies), and stick to the topic at hand, where I think you were asking about the possibility of major confrontations involving sovereign nations. I think this only happens if a nuclear weapon is used against Israel. This would undoubtedly be linked to Iran, and I think that in the wake of such an attack Israeli government would feel it had no choice but to retalilate directly againsts Iran (Or if the Israel government/military command and control was completely wiped out, I think the US would hit retaliate directly against Iran—if a Rep President were in power. But in that case, our conventional weapons arsenal in so vast, we could sufficiently flatten Iranian power centers without resorting to nukes). But let me step back a moment. This in not a scenario that will happen during the current conflict. It only becomes a realistic possibility some years down the road, when Iran will likely have developed an arsenal of multiple nuclear weapons and other WMD. Even then I don’t see it happening: Iran seems to love funneling weapons to Hezbo, but I don’t think they’d give them a suitcase nuke. That would be too easy for Israel to blame on them. I DO think they would pass along a biological WMD however. That kind of disaster could take weeks to play out, and in the resulting panic and chaos it would be harder to pin on Iran, or to blame any government in particular. But even though I think the Iranians are too ‘shrewd’ to pass along an actual nuclear weapon to Hezbo, you never know, they might. Then, well, I’ll resume my narrative from above, set a dozen or more years in the future: Israel—which I think is believed to have in excess of 440 nuclear devices—would respond with devastating force against Tehran and any other population centers that were believed to be seats of power for the ruling Mullahs and/or the more secular official government office holders. Contrary to some of the rhetoric I see thrown around here, I do not think Israel is the kind of country that would try to wipe out Iran indiscriminantly. They have a plan on the books already, have to doubt. But while it would be brutal, it would not be a total annihilation. In other words, it would not be anywhere near as devastating as the reverse would be true if Hezbollah or Iran’s President had 440 nukes at their disposal to use on Israel. But what happens next? Would Russia/China dare step in? I doubt it, in part for reasons illucidated by DireStrike. In an all-out military showdown, the US is currently capable of defeating either of them or both of them in combination. And this is not just due to nukes but to vastly superior conventional weapons and esppecially naval resources-STAGING ability. We could position multiple aircraft carrier battle groups off the shores of both countries that they lack the ability to counter.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-01-06 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. There was a big fear propagated about China back during
the cold war. The mantra went this way, that the Chinese could afford collateral damage on a scale we can't even imagine because of the numbers of their population. In other words we could keep killing Chinese and they would keep coming until we ran out of people because they wouldn't.

However, I remember the lesson taught to us in Viet Name that a bunch of farmers basically with rusty guns and determination could rout the greatest military in the world.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
thethinker Donating Member (403 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-01-06 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
9. This is the way I see it playing out
It will be Israel and the US against the world. They are both thumbing their noses at the rest of the civilized world. And the world is watching. There was a time when the world watched Germany and knew they would have to do something about them.

I think all of the countries that joined us in Iraq have had it with our torture, etc. I think they will sat this one out.

The world would probably just let us all kill each other and laugh, except this is really all about oil. They won't let us steal Iran's oil and get by with it. The world is paying triple for a tank of gas right now, just like we are. They can't be happy about it. Stealing oil is something the world can not afford to let us get by with. We are not only bankrupting our economy, we are hurting everyone's economy.

I know a lot of people with extreme viewpoints think this is a clash of civilizations, or a war between Muslims and Christians/Jews. Well it isn't about that at all. Our dear leaders, Bush and Cheney, neither one have a religious bone in their bodies. They could care less about Jews vs. Muslims. And they will step over as many dead bodies as need be to get Iran's oil.

The rest of the world will aid and arm who ever we are fighting. After that they will just come forward and start bombing. They will let us wear our (stupid) selves out. They will let us spend our selves beyond broke. They will let us spread our troops too thin over several countries and then they will finish us off. When they do, they will make sure we don't raise from the ashes for a very long time.

Israel is in a very bad location for all of this. One big bomb would take them out for good. So, starting World War III is pretty suicidal for them.

The world has seen this all before. Other countries know their history. We don't. We don't know history and we don't play chess. We think we are the first country that ever wanted world domination. Israel is being driven by religious fanatics with a lust for land. We are being driven by greedy SOBs with a lust for oil and a desire for world domination. If they move forward with their plans, which it appears they probably will, this isn't going to be pretty.






Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-01-06 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. I sort of see that what is happening is like when Nazi
Germany was becoming belligerant. The western nations sat back a lot letting Hitler get away with a lot of evil doings just like other nations are letting Bush get away with a lot today, hoping maybe that elections will bring change. However, if this doesn't happen they will join together and we won't come out of this smelling like a rose any more than Germany did.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-01-06 08:31 PM
Response to Original message
13. Russia and China will fuck us; EU will tell the US, "You're alone!"
Russia and China have invested billions into Iran's oil infrastructure.

They will not stand idly by as the US attempts to destroy years if not decades of work. They will hurt the US in more ways than one, and it may end up crippling the US for most of the 21st century if not permanently render the US a backwater power once again.

I say the Europeans will sit out the damn war. If there is anything they will not get involved in, it is another world fucking war. They are not going to do it three fucking times in less than 100 years. They will simply not tolerate that kind of bloodshed anymore. The only way they will fight is if you invade their home soil.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-01-06 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. If we don't get rid of the neo-con warhawks, who
evidently don't plan their moves that well, when it comes to global domination, what's to stop them from thinking they can invade Europe again and conquer them? The EU will have to take action then.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Taxloss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-01-06 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
14. This reminds me of a "Far Side" cartoon.
A group of generals are gathered in a situation room. One is asking, with a faraway look in his eyes, "what if we had a war and everyone came?"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-01-06 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. OMG! I remember that one. It's not a joke anymore I fear. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Apr 18th 2024, 11:58 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC