What I have learned about the pro-Israel crowd

[DistressedAmerican]

They excuse any crime committed by Israel while trying desperately to blame the victims of the atrocities for their own deaths.

The always accept the version of events offered by the IDF and other Israeli government agencies as fact, some even after the IDF has admittied the lie.

They bring any distraction possible to an argument in hopes of discussing anything but that actual facts about what Israel is doing.

They have sold out all other liberal and progressive values they may hold in their cozying up the the right wing warmonges behind the slaughter. Many of which are fundie anti-semites looking for the Jews to be wiped out or convert to fundyism. The same people that believe that 6 million of Hitler's victims burn in hell for nothing more than being Jews when they died. Some allies.

They endores continued senseless killing (in the name of peace no less) and reject any implication that Israel may want to compromise with its neoghbors to achieve peace rather than just blow them the hell up.

Must suck suddenly being a neocon after fighting them so long.

That is the problem with a one issue voter. Willing to sell out everything else for their one issue.

Oh yeah, some leave angry messages telling us how we do not care about the truth (which I guess they have a monopoly on), that we are Hezbollah supporters, anti-semites, etc. for opposing the slaughter of Lebanese innocents. Some logic!

Sadly, they also own all of the politicians in this country, which apparently makes them feel jusitified and right in their support of war crimes. Just like we should have all felt the Iraq war was right because it was popular with asshole politicians I guess.

[Lars39]

1. I honestly wonder how much of it is this:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-2289232,00.html

[still_one]

3. and I was thinking the same thing only from the other point of view

[jonnyblitz]

5. sorry but I don't see the other side clamoring for war. nt

[rockymountaindem]

19. You don't see Hezbollah clamoring for war?

That's what they're all about.

[still_one]

22. at least we are having a dialog, which is better than most of the threads

which usually result in name calling

To me it seems extremely one-sided, against Israel. Yes there should have been a cease fire, Yes, Isreal over-reacted, but Hezbollah did kill 6 soldiers and capture two, then demand a swap which started this particular episode

Unless people can find a middle ground what do any of us expect

As an example there are those who want to roll the clock back to 1948, and that is not middle ground. Then there are others who actually provide possible solutions, including 1967, that is a middle ground

What I am saying it just depends on what baggage the poster is coming with to the table whether there will be a dialog or not

In addition, it depends on how one poster verses another wants to antagonize, or seriously enage in an exchange of views

[Lars39]

28. Point me to the article stating that Hezbelloh or Lebanon

has organized pr.

[DistressedAmerican]

4. A few. But, most are long term posters that have just lost their moral

compass on the issue.

[Solo_in_MD]

16. Mine is doing just fine

even though I refuse to share your fanatacism.

[breakaleg]

13. If this was the case, then I'd like to think their arguments would be

a little more intelligent and cohesive. What we have here is certainly not that.

[Lars39]

It doesn't have to be.

Just has to be repeated enough.

[MarkDevin]

2. Sounds about right.

The ferocity of the "Israel Can Do No Wrong" crowd is truly frightening.

[Solo_in_MD]

12. As is the Israel can do nothing right crowd

the fanatics on all sides have lost their perspective

[jonnyblitz]

39. well. if you can point out something they have done right

please let me know. seriously.

[liberalhistorian]

23. What truly bothers me about that is

that they seem to automatically consider any expression of horror and sympathy over the deaths of civilians, the creation of nearly a million desperate, homeless refugees, and the destruction of a beautiful country to mean support for Hezbollah, Hamas, etc., which is total bullshit. And how Israel gets away with claiming that any action that brings international criticism is just a "mistake" (the U.N. bombing, Quana, etc.) is completely beyond me.

They can't boast about Israel's "precision aim" weapons, then cry "mistake" when they do something like Quana or the U.N. bombing. And to think that our tax dollars are paying for this is what REALLY infuriates and sickens me.

And the really intractable ones are the ones who STILL believe that Israel's Lebanon offensive will actually make the civilians turn against Hezbollah and toward Israel, when it's so obvious that nothing could be further from the truth that it hurts. When you've seen your family blown up in front of you, who are you going to be angry at? A private group or those you've seen do the bombing and shooting? They're just creating more future Hezbollah members.

[breakaleg]

6. What I've learned is...

When they can't win an argument based on it's merits, they revert back to the past. They say Israel has a right to defend itself and they have a right to exist. While ignoring the current situation and atrocities committed.

No one is saying Israel doesn't have those rights. It just so happens that they aren't exercising those rights at the moment and the things they've done can't be excused by those arguments.

[JCMach1]

9. Good point, we need to judge the current Israeli gov.

without the prism of the past... judge their morality on an even field...

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

7. We've seen all this before.

Bush does nothing to help Katrina victims-

"they were warned to evacuate! It's their own fault!"

U.S. forces commit atrocities at Abu Ghraib and elsewhere-

"But the Iraqis do it too!"

Thousands protest the war-

"They're all anti-American!"

[chill_wind]

20. And if you're not WITH us, you're WITH the terr'ists.

Now no more American CARPING!

"A Green Light for Israel" at all costs.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2752011&mesg_id=2752011

[liberalhistorian]

30. Yes, and with our

tax dollars, no less.

[YOY]

8. Well this is going to get locked

Just a hunch...

Woudln't be surprised if my post is deleted...despite not breaking any rules.

[jonnyblitz]

33. or banished to I/P where it all of a sudden won't meet the

criteria for starting an I/P thread, then it will get locked for that reason.

[BillZBubb]

10. Agree 100 percent. It is astonishing, disappointing, and sad.

People who you thought were progressive, open minded, and fair turn out to be willing to buy any lie the Israeli's put out. They are willing to tolerate the deaths of any number of innocents so that their side "wins". Their inhumanity has been a real eye opener.

[blue2helix]

11. Amen

I had one fool insinuate that the word "Judo" as in the martial art, was a bad intentioned code word for Jew! Some people are losing their minds over this - I guess it's based on paranoia to some degree.

[Behind the Aegis]

14. Typical anti-Israeli flamebait!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

17. That would be...

#3 on my list above.

[jonnyblitz]

21. what total fucking BULLSHIT.

[Behind the Aegis]

24. I agree...the OP is total fucking BULLSHIT.

[DistressedAmerican]

35. Nice counter arguments to my post. Is that all you have?

Why not just start screaming anti-semite at me. It would be just as valid (or invalid as the case may be) an argument.

Or is this just another distraction meant to distract from the issue at hand?

[Behind the Aegis]

37. And you continue to spew BULLSHIT..

[liberalhistorian]

36. Yeah, Jonny, but look at

who the poster is, what else would you expect?

[BuhByeChimp]

29. You have a point.

This thread does nothing except create division.

[liberalhistorian]

32. Why, because it dares to

tell the truth and not whitewash Israel?

[Behind the Aegis]

34. Yeah, that's what the post is doing...

:eyes: You are as partisan as you claim I am!

[Finder]

15. It is only a handful of posters really...

that take that position. Of course there are dozens who do not agree with the blame Israel crowd and will throw themselves into the fray.

Too much emotion on both sides. It is not an "us vs them" issue yet those are the threads that get the most posts.

[Minstrel Boy]

18. nationalism is a monster that can justify ANYTHING

I've posted this Orwell quote more than once:

"The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them."

[liberalhistorian]

25. Amen, DA!

Couldn't have said it better, myself. And the Israeli people are no safer because of their country's current actions, in fact, they're now even less secure, which is one of the really sad results of this whole mess.

[deaniac21]

26. It is hard to believe.The arab countries and groups historically

have offered compromise after compromise. Israel's only responses have been to bomb and kill. They will not be satisfied until all of their enemies are dead.

[rockymountaindem]

38. Yeah, like the Khartoum Resolution

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khartoum_Resolution

:sarcasm:

[Master Mahon]

27. Let's just put ALL the BLAME where it rightly belongs

IT'S CLINTON'S FAULT!! :+

[BuyingThyme]

31. Weren't you arguing the exact opposite position just a couple weeks ago?

Was that you who was calling me an anti-semite for saying what you now know know to be true? (I can't search, so I really don't know if it was you.)

[Mandate My Ass]

40. They also send nasty PMs and then block you from responding

Cowards.

[pinto]

41. Locking.

As posted this is flamebait.