What I have learned about progressives and liberals

[nadinbrzezinski]

the same people who are always asking for investigations and justice are willing to suspend all of this... in the name of hatred.

It has also convinced me that Israel has lost the propaganda war since they have not shown you the bodies of children killed by the Katusha's, maybe they should reconsider violating Jewish law, oh never mind their lives are never as valuable, never mind each life lost is a treasure lost regardless of who were your parents, but somehow for the last 2000 years Jewish blood is far less valuable... this is not the last two weeks, it is the last 2000 years. Yes I have read over the last two weeks, many of the same blood libel arguments I have read in the past, as well as lines straight from the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, which are now part of the general culture.

And most importantly, it has made clear to me that in this world I am truly alone... in the search for the truth. this is not your goal or the goal of many of you... so with that I guess I will strongly consider biding this board good bye... it has helped to keep my sanity over the last five almost six years... but right now all I see is the same kind of knee jerk reaction I have seen in RW boards, just replace actors, Israel for Al Qaida, and Hisbollah for Iraq... this is not my country, now I understand. It will never be my country, now I understand... why? Because my country is one where there is a search for reason and for the truth, but here is a search for pure ideology... and what does not fit in, must be discarded.

Yes, thanks to some of you, (You know who you are) I feel it is time to go back to myself, work for myself and forget about the whole. Why? We have nothing in common, so it seems, and for some of you I am now part of the other. Congratulations... see you in hell, for that is where we are going for sure.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. blahblahblahblah

Fine with me. Attack progressives and liberals some where else.

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. No that is what I have learned over the last two weeks

I hope it is a minory, prove me wrong

[warrens]

34. Who has brought up the blood libel or claimed that Jewish babies don't

count? No one. Stop being such a drama queen.

[stepnw1f]

61. thank you (nt)

[LostinVA]

94. Thank you

[JeffR]

3. That's a mighty broad brush

And I adamantly refuse to be tarred with it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

Those who this brush applies to know exactly who they are

so if you are not, then you are not

[KittyWampus]

11. You need to get of General Discussion more, nadin

seriously, it's where people go to just argue and trash. It's not for actual discussion. There're other forums on DU for that.

[MoseyWalker]

4. We are all alone in the search for truth

I hope you find yours, and that there are many who share it while you are walking on this earth.

[Totallybushed]

5. Sorry to see you go.

There are a lot of us who value Jewish life just like any other.

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. I know that, but in the last two weeks I have not seen it

I have seen what my parents saw in Europe, before the war... things I hoped never to see in the US.... so this is no longer my country. I finally know how Loyal German Jews also felt... betrayed mostly

[samsingh]

27. i have cried when i've thought about what's happened to the Jewish people

much as i feel like crying when i see what is happening to the people in Lebanon

[electropop]

35. It's just a matter of proportion.

If you shed one tear per murdered civilian, then you are shedding 10 times as many tears for Lebanese as for Israelis. Both Hezbollah and Israel are murdering civilians; the Israelis are just 10 times more efficient at it.

[DistressedAmerican]

7. Funny I asked for the evidence of the IDF claims which you were repeating

you know about how Hezbollah had fired three rockets from near the buildings, using civilians for cover (remember your Ambulance analogy) and that they were striking that launcher. You ridiculed my pointing out that the real viideo had never ben released and suggested it indicated that they story you were repeating as if it were fact was totally unsupported..

When you rush to your own false conclusion based on the statements of the accused, you are not looking for the truth. You are enabling and fostering the lie.

Get off of your high horse Nadine.

There was no launcher. The IAF has admitted it. Face FACTS.

[jonnyblitz]

8. hell, if i supported this Israeli bullshit the last thing I would

expect is sympathy is on a site catering to proggressives. unbelievable.

[DistressedAmerican]

13. Hey Blame DU! Not the people comitting the war crimes.

Another way to not talk about the issue and facts at hand. Anything bu the actual issue.

"I'm the only logical one on the world! You are all knee-jerking morons!"

usually when you find yourself that isolated, it is not everyone else in the world that is screwed.

[malaise]

96. Bingo n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. Go to the Australian Herald

shows Hisbollah fighters in dense areas IN CIVILIAN GARB, if you cannot accept those photos it ain't my problem. In fact none of this is. As is you succeeded, this country is no longer my country, this board is no longer my board... people like you have shown me why I have no place in this country. Thanks teach, I am sure to take this lesson, for I refused to learn it from my father. This lesson is one that I guess every generation has to learn, and when they come to take us away, I will no longer be around to speak either... never mind I have spoken, put my life on the line and done things that you have no idea. Yet you have yet to realize that you are enabling the conflict by refusing to see what BOTH sides are doing, and valuing one life higher than the other... but this is the course of Jewish history... this is the curse as well, since at least 70 AD if not earlier. This is just a new version of the old...

Me, I have gone into harms way to get people out, for EVERY LIFE IS VALUABLE. I have interviewed survivors of war crimes, for cases that have yet to be heard. I have taken care of those who have died of torture... I have not just sat behind a computer screen screaming war crime, with no clue of what I am talking about. I KNOW that every time there is a claim of war time an investigation should be done. I also know that 90% of those investigations do NOT find evidence of war crimes. Disasters, yes, horrors, absolutely, but nor war crimes.

But then again I have walked the walk and talked the talke... I have heard things that would make your hair stand on end... and realize that war is the same whether the people engaged speak farsi, spanish, hebrew or arabic... and the results are predictably the same. The only way to break patterns is for cheerleaders on all sides, which incidental includes the US, Iran and Syria, to stop enabling the conflicts. but I am sure you and I will continue to disagree... then again we won't. maybe it is best if I just go... and do my work, and forget about the next amicus brief over guatnamo... or following what the gov'ment is doing, and the terrorism bill... you just took the will to fight away... congratulations.

[DistressedAmerican]

19. Oh Poor Nadine.

Save it. Who's emotional knee jerking now?

Where are the pohotos of the actual attack on the supposed launcher that you seem convinced was there? Unless you have those, you do not have anything. Your pics of Hezbollah fighters from Austalia are of no more relevence to the Qana bombng than the bogus videos put out by the IDF.

You took the lie for fact and argued from that base all day yesterday. You can't seem to deal with that fact that what you believed was a lie, even after the liar admits it and you have the nerve to chastize others for not seeking the truth?

Please. What hypocritical crap. The only truth that you will accept me believing is that Israel is not guilty of war crimes. You have argued it for days.

Too bad for you that they clearly are and that your arguments are getting the total lack of traction they deserve.

And that has nothing to do with your country.

Boo hoo.

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. welcome to my ignore list

[Karmakaze]

28. I thought you were leaving? Arent we ALL on the "ignore list"?

Or was your OP just hyperbole?

[malaise]

97. Please put me on your ignore list

Thanks

[muriel_volestrangler]

75. That's justification for killing hundreds of civilians?

The lack of a uniform? Wow, your standards are low. It's not just us 'screaming war crimes'; it's the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights too.

If you see Jews being blamed for Israeli crimes, or insulted, then alert the moderators.

[bvar22]

79. The pics I saw yesterday....

...were crew served Anti-Aircraft weapons in Beruit...NOT offensive weapons.
It is smart to put Anti-Aircraft weapons in urban areas when that is where the attackers are bombing.

(There may be other pictures, but I didn't see them)

[muriel_volestrangler]

80. True; but nadin seemed to be concerned about how they were dressed

I doubt anti-aircraft guns can do much against modern fast jets (an occasional lucky hit, perhaps) but seeing them in cities seems perfectly normal. I've seen the AA pictures on other sites; no-one ever posted any pictures of rockets.

[Avalux]

9. Well, I for one, am somewhat sad you feel this way.

Emotional responses to such complex problems tend to be irrational and subjective often causing hurt feelings and yes, "knee jerk" reactions. That does not mean that among such responses, there aren't a great many who are seeking the truth and some sort of reasonable solution that will allow mankind to live in peace with respect for all lives. It must be sought out and it must be found or we truly will perish. We are all in this boat together, every last one of us, regardless of religion, race, sex. Why can't we just accept it and learn to get along?

A simple question with no-so-simple answers. Best of luck to you if you go; with hope you find what you seek.

[Tsiyu]

10. DU is a big place

There are people here with whom I vehemently disagree, who don't share the same values as me, who say things that totally piss me off.

Would I say goodbye to this place because of this? Hell, no.

I have seen many folks supporting Israel no matter what. I have seen many - like myself - who are angry at both Israel and Hezbolah.

If you want total agrement from everyone here, you are being very unrealistic.

i have enjoyed most of your posts, and would consider it a great loss if you leave, but i WILL suggest taking a break for a bit.

:hug:

[BuhByeChimp]

12. Settle down and take a break

I'm fairly new hear, but I'm no absolutist on a majority of issues and hate no one.

Either way, I'll support you on any issue you want to discuss but may not always agree with you.

I will however always respect your opinion.

So take a break and come back soon!

[bryant69]

14. That's pretty sad

You mean people failed to arrive at the same answer as you, so you assume they must be knee-jerk reactionaries? Says more about you than it does about us.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Lurking Dem]

23. How about two threads

which, before they were made to change the title, used the phrase "filthy Jew"?

How the fuck are people supposed to feel? People who are lifelong Democrats, worked many a campaign, and actually support the Democratic Party platform in support of Israel?

[bryant69]

29. Hmmmm I guess there might be a few idiots at DU

I mean it is a community of several thousand.

[SidDithers]

31. That's what the alert button is for...

Whatever racial slur or epithet is used, it must be alterted on and the mods will deal with the post and the poster.

However, there is a big difference between unnaceptable behaviour and an opposing opinion. If a poster can't accept that some here see Israel as the "bad guy" in the current hostilities, then perhaps they should find a place where their delicate sensibilities won't be easily offended.

Sid

[Bridget Burke]

56. Two threads posted by two people? Or by one person?

If DU is all that evil, why weren't the titles left as they were?

[Lurking Dem]

81. Where did I say DU was evil?

It was 2 different posters and those were a drop in the bucket of what the mods are having to deal with.

[tnlefty]

58. Whoa! I'm glad that I missed those.

Curious, though, was it something that someone else said, i.e., the awful statements of Mel Gibson? or as something said by Savage or Beck? Not that it should've been used at all, I'm just wondering if it was a quote of what someone else said and (hopefully) not something that the poster would've said.

[Lurking Dem]

82. They were not quotes.

[High Plains]

59. I never saw those, and I suspect they were made by provocateurs.

This war has excited an influx of new posters, some of whom don't really seem to be our friends.

Any more info?

[samsingh]

15. we are against innocent people being killed anywhere

by anyone.

[neverforget]

17. This post is the exact reason why I don't get involved with the

Israeli-Lebanon threads: irrational, arrogant, my side is right no matter what, name calling. And with attitudes like that on both sides, is it any wonder there is so much animosity and division, not just on this board, but in the world? At least on this board we're talking to each other. Over there, they are killing each other.

[Hubert Flottz]

43. "my side is right no matter what,"

Both sides are wrong as long as people are dying.

It's a sad thing. Made worse by some who come here to fan the flames and disrupt. I could claim to be Jewish, or Baptist or a man from mars, but that does not make it so. It should to be us against the GOP, here at DU. Who wins when we fight among ourselves? The Freepers do!

[fasttense]

18. It's tough to take when the very people you thought

you had so much in common with start attacking you. You feel betrayed, angry and disappointed. But remember we are not all the same. DU is not a group of robots like the freeper boards. We are open for discussion of everything, even if that discussion sometimes attacks the very same ideals that brought us all here.

I'm sorry you are so hurt but know that some of us are looking for the very same things you are. You are not alone either in you search for truth and justice, or in your feelings about Israel.

[patdem]

20. Did you know there are racist GAYS and JEWS? I frankly was surprised

but my husband, who happens to be black told me to secure the apartment without him because he was black and I was white...hogwash I thought .... that is so 60's thinking..besides the women who owned the apartment was Jewish and the manager was Gay! What's to worry...well I will tell you he was proven correct and I was proven wrong. We were to all three (husband, landlord and I) to sign our lease. Well, we lived there for 6 months and the landlord (the Jewish woman) could never find time for us to gather together to do the signing..and the maintainence man (Gay guy) harassed us till we just finally had to move. It was the CHEAPEST apartment EVER..and in a GREAT neighborhood.

But I do not think ALL GAYS and ALL JEWS are racists...just those who I KNOW are.

I hate to see you leave..but I have seen alot of heated debates this last week..and to tell you the truth I am REALLY angry it has happened!

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. Yes and I have called them on it too

[Karmakaze]

21. Jewish blood is far less valuable?

That is what you supposedly have learned?

You of course know that since 2000 more Palestinian CHILDREN have died than all the Israeli civilian casualties put together. That if you count all civilians killed that around 3000 Palestinian civilians were killed by the IDF, over 3 times as many as Israeli civilians killed by terrorism. You know all this because thats the statistic you hear all the time because only Palestinian deaths matter, right?

And these statistics don't include the latest count from Lebanon, which is shaping up to be a real doozy. What is it 700 civilians to 20? Something close to that? You do realise that more Lebanese CHILDREN were killed in that one attack in Qana than all Israeli civilians killed during this war put together? You know that right, because thats all the press ever talks about, eh?

When your search for the "truth" leads to nothing but blatant lies, then I suggest it is time for you to change your search parameters.

[ThomCat]

38. You are trying to use facts, logic and reason.

People who only value "us" don't believe in any of that. "We" don't value "them" enough. It's the most blatantly one-sided people who insist that they know better than everyone else. It's their view, their perspective, and their prejudices that are important.
:eyes:

The original post could be summarized as: blah blah blah. Whine, whine. Oh poor us. I'm going to ignore all you ignorant people now.

[orwell]

25. Those traits in others which anger me the most...

...are usually the ones I deny about myself...

That is why your "enemies" are your greatest teachers.

[endarkenment]

26. IDF: 90% civilian fatalities. nt

[MadHound]

30. God forbid, we have some balance to the issue

God forbid that we hold Israel(not the Jewish people mind you, but the state of Israel) responsible for their atrocities. God forbid that we call an atrocity for what it is.

No, for apparently if we liberals do that, somebody is bound to declare us anti-semites, bigots or worse.

Sorry, but this liberal is going to call it as I see it. Israel could have done what they've done in the past, negotiated a prisoner exchange, negotiated, talked. Instead they decided to let loose the dogs of war. And here we are, with innocents dying daily.

Disgusting, all of it. And shame on Israel for taking the path of war, when the path of peace could have accomplished their objectives.

[nadinbrzezinski]

33. It sems doing an investigation is on the side of Israel

so be it, good bye du

[Karmakaze]

39. Doing an investigation?

I guess I missed that part - all I read was how anyone who doesnt care more for the limited Israeli deaths than the massive Lebanese deaths is part of a 2000 year tradition of devaluing Jewish blood.

But if you've gotta go, you've gotta go

:hi:

[MadHound]

40. Sorry, what investigation are you talking about?

:shrug: Which investigation are you talking about? Sorry, but I don't understand your reply.

[Vanje]

89. This is why.....

you should wait till youre sober before you post.

[T Wolf]

32. I am always disappointed, but not surprised, at the "knee-jerk"

reaction of many Jewish people who are otherwise very liberal when it comes to Israel. It seems that every progressive idea in their head just flies away and they scurry for the shelter of the simplistic, self-concerned view that Israel IS NEVER WRONG!

Way back when my elder daughter was young, I was explaining Chanukah to her. When I got to the part about the Macabees fighting, I said something along the lines of "Israel was always being invaded. That's why Jews are paranoid to this day."

I really believe that it is a psychological illness that many Jewish people have. Why else would they abandon all liberal thought in only this one instance? Many of my relatives who are very progressive and hate Bush* for what he is doing pull a half-Blair (Linda) when the subject of Israel comes up.

Their inconsistency pisses me off to no end. Killing children is wrong. No matter what. Justifying it is just mental masturbation that protects the fragile ego that cannot handle any criticism for the fear that it will lead straight to a gas chamber.

Pitiful.

[patdem]

46. I think it is cultural..like we BELIEVE we are the 'home of the brave'..

while we are all huddled under our beds..and cannot wait for the government to take away our liberties to make us safe..so we can be 'the home of the brave' once again.

Maybe Israel culture is about being DESTROYED...you know...it was TRUE for so many years (like us being brave) that it is just the WAY to think if you are Jewish?

I was raised Catholic and our neighbor and one of my best friends while he lived there was Jewish. (about age 8) We discussed religion and I believed I could convert him cause..well WE were the one true faith..and he was VERY defensive..while I was just OFFENSIVE..and I mean that literally...beyond the lions and christians ...no on has tried to KILL ALL CATHOLICS..not in our doctrine..so I think it is a cultural thing that I will never understand..but must accept.

[in_cog_ni_to]

36. I sincerely wish you would stay.

If you leave DU, the anti-Israel crowd silences another voice and I'm sure you know, as well as I do, that other LONGTIME Democratic Jewish DUers have left already.:(

Please don't go. We really do need you here. I know it's VERY, VERY difficult reading this crap everyday and SOME people here just love starting crap. They start divisive thread after divisive thread (it makes them feel important)...(they know who they are) and those people just need to be ignored. They have plenty of anti-Israel people who love to stroke their huge egos. They don't need our comments. Just ignore them.

Don't give them the satisfaction of seeing you go. You DO have people here who are like you and stand with you and Israel. We're a family. “Do not separate yourself from the community” (Avot 2:5).
:hug:

[NJ Democrats]

48. I agree

It is very hard to read a lot of this shit, but we need you and every Jewish DUer to stay even w/ some of the studd that has been said here. I suggest you go to the Lounge often. But please stay

[Misskittycat]

84. Agreed. n/t

[meganmonkey]

37. Propaganda war?

You think Israel is losing the propaganda war?!

I highly recommend this video:

http://brasscheck.com/videos/middleeast/me1.html

[Lars39]

41. Perhaps the law that does not allow images of dead people

to be broadcast has helped desensitize the Israelis to killing their neighbors.

[T Wolf]

44. No. The reality is that the Israelis hate their neighbors with such

passion that most do not really care when Arabs are killed. They view them as sub-human.

How else to explain their callous disregard for innocent life?

[rockymountaindem]

60. You would feel that way too

if you knew your enemies felt the same way about you. It happens in every war.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

42. May you find peace

you know, working on yourself and finding your Truth is really the only thing any of us can do. Personally, I find a mini-vacation from here often helps, but if you feel you must depart forever, do what feels right in your heart. May you find peace and understanding wherever you go.

[Marr]

45. For you to complain that 'Israeli blood is seen as less valuable'

when the state you're rooting for is bombing apartment complexes is just staggering. You *have* seen the bodycount, yeah?

[WilliamPitt]

47. You take this shit seriously?

By "this shit," I mean the spray coming from both sides by keyboard jockeys.

I've had 200 conversations about the Lebanon situation with people out in the real world, people from all over the spectrum politically and religiously. I've agreed with some, disgareed with others, but not one of them has come within a parsec of having the kind of over-emotional supercharge you get here in GD.

Does that mean I speak to bland people?

Or does that mean the nature of discussion forums trends towards over-emotional venting?

I'll take curtain #2.

Read it, participate, respond, reply, but don't get suckered into thinking DU is representative of the progressive world, or even the real world. It isn't. It's an online forum, and Group Dynamics plays a big role.

In other words, go outside.

[Lars39]

53. Seen this?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-2289232,00.html

[Wonk]

49. Ooh, the drama. Ooh, the non-sequiturs. Cya soon

once you vanquish the demons in your head.

[Lerkfish]

50. Here's something I don't understand: why does every pro-Isreal DUer

use "liberal" as an ephtithet?

[T Wolf]

55. Perhaps they are liberals-of-convenience and once they might

suffer personally, they change their tune.

[in_cog_ni_to]

57. Liberals of Convenience? Nadine has been here for YEARS.

I have been a registered DEMOCRAT since 1973. Liberal of Convenience? :eyes: You have no idea what you're talking about.

[T Wolf]

62. "convenience" means ease. And when it becomes less easy, the

principles go out the window. Standing up for a principle when you personally suffer is the real mark of courage and dedication.

If it is wrong to kill children but you defend that atrocity because it is the "enemy" who is dying, that is just hypocrisy.

I agree that even DUers will not agree on this topic. Religion has a way of bringing out the irrationality in people. That is why they call it faith-based. No proof or reality needed. Or wanted.

[Lerkfish]

83. I'm still a bit confused. If I say its wrong to kill BOTH Isreali and

Lebanese children, but the pro-Isreal only thinks its wrong to kill Isreali children, why are they calling MY position hypocrisy?

I"m not sure you typed what you thought you did, or else we're not working with the same reality.

[The Straight Story]

85. I think the main point here MAY be:

That there is not nearly this much outrage when a suicide bomber blows up some kids on a bus in Israel. Hits LBN, maybe GD, and then I would guess (if memoery serves me well) that some will be saying 'well, it's Israels fault for being mean to them' or something along those lines.

It's almost as if people are just waiting to jump on Israel with anything they can negative (like some do with Kerry, et al). Yes, Israel has made terribly poor choices, so has the other side - but some here seem to want to only call out one side as 'evil/wrong'. While they may say something like 'yeah, both sides suck' they then launch into a tirade about how Israel is worse for some reason.

I guess we need a poll - which side do you like better, Israel of Hezzbolah.

[Behind the Aegis]

112. Hammer meet nail!

You summed it up nicely! Dead Israelis = no interest. Dead anyone BY Israelis = thread after thread of hate-filled posts.

When Netyana was hit with a suicide attack several months back and 5 Israelis were killed, including children, there was not ONE response! NOT ONE! When another thread was started about the same attack in GD, there were 8 responses, three being updates!

As for jumping on anything Israeli, you got that one right again! I posted about the first Israeli to win at the Wimbledon Doubles. The first TWO posts were attacks on the player (did he round up people, maybe he got there by occupying the spot), then, despite it being LBN, it was whisked into the Sports forum!

As "knee-jerk" as we may be about the defense of Israel, it is no different than the others who attack Israel at every turn.

[Misskittycat]

92. Why do you lump all "pro-Israel" people together, assuming

we all think exactly the same? That's one of the aspects of this ugly emotional slugfest at DU recently that has bothered me the most.

I can be "pro-Israel," yet object to the strategy and tactics of the right wing in Israel. I can be "pro-Israel," yet want an immediate ceasefire. I can be "pro-Israel," yet not be sure how to address real security concerns in that region.

Similarly, I can be "pro-American," yet object to the strategy and tactics of the right wing in the U.S. I can be "pro-American," yet want us out of Iraq. I can be "pro-American, yet not be sure how to address real security concerns post-911.

I do not park my progressive principles at the door when it comes to Israel, but I -- like most Jews -- have a deep and abiding emotional bond with it. Folks, it's complicated. I struggle with what's right and wrong, wise or unwise. I want to learn more. I can and do listen to the other side. Unfortunately, I am mostly going elsewhere than DU for more information and understanding about the current Middle East situation because the atmosphere here on this issue is rather toxic right now.

[Lerkfish]

93. you make a valid point. mea culpa.

[Misskittycat]

104. Thank you. n/t

[readmoreoften]

87. Liberals of convenience? Well that makes not a damn bit of sense.

I don't support Israel's attacks. But I SURE as hell don't support HEZBOLLAH, a fundamentalist oppressively conservative organization. It can also be said that those who support Hezbollah are liberals of convenience. The whole notion is absurd.

How about liberals who disagree on a topic?

[Zynx]

101. As one, I will explain it.

It is simply shocking to some of us just who any liberal or progressive could take such a harsh and uncompromising stance against Israel and show so little regard for the state and its people. As such we use "liberal" to highlight the irony.

[Lerkfish]

102. thanks. so its not because you find liberals distasteful...

its because you think we aren't liberals if we disagree with indiscriminate destruction of infrastructure and civilians, ON BOTH SIDES.

got it.

I guess, we can only be liberals if we support Israel's current military actions and ignore the "collateral damage" in Lebanon.

Funny, I guess we were still liberals when we expressed the same concerns over the US destroying Iraq's infrastructure and the attack on Fallujah.

Or did you think we weren't liberals then?

so, only you get to decide who is liberal, depending on whether they agree with you or not?

I'm glad you cleared that up, because when people use "peace-loving" and "liberal" as an epithet, it only makes me think they are the opposite. I wasn't factoring irony into the equation.


hmmm....irony.

[cracksquirrel]

109. Hardly

Adjust your irony-meter, please. She is reflecting her disillusionment with the DU community here, a community that is supposed to hold true to progressive and liberal values. She is not saying "liberal" is bad, she is saying that what she is reading every day on DU does not reflect the rhetoric of liberalism.

[Generator]

51. Well you are not alone on your search for truth

It is not as simplistic as many here claim. I wish it were. The Jews aren't the problem. Humanity is the problem.

There is a nasty underspring of belief that if it weren't for Israel, we would have no problems with the middle east. I find that absurd. But they BELIEVE that to their core, and nothing you can say or produce will move that opinion.

You have valid opinions, don't let them be silenced. Though you may be speaking to the deaf.

[uppityperson]

52. mean people suck, and there are some here.

I know also, learning to ignore them and the hatred they spew. Many of us are with you, a vocal minority isn't.

[coalition_unwilling]

54. I've had exactly the opposite reaction to yours, i.e., I am thinking

about leaving DU because there is too much blind support for Israeli policies here. It's almost like Kant's principle of the universality of morality, i.e., if something is moral for others it should also be moral for us, doesn't apply when it comes to Israel. Two Israeli soldiers are "captured" by Hezbollah and Israel turns around and bombs the airport AND bridges of Beirut??? That would be like the British RAF bombing the airport at Dublin after a bomb attack in London by the IRA.

But of course people like you hold Israel to a different standard THAN ANY OTHER COUNTRY IS, OR SHOULD BE, HELD TO.

[DistressedAmerican]

63. Deleted. Confused. Sorry.

[DistressedAmerican]

64. Funny, You reply in kind to a crap post like this and it gets locked.

But, here this crap sits just the same.

Hypocritical standard.

[BooScout]

65. I was thinking the same thing.

Double standard.

[BooScout]

66. I was thinking the same thing.

Double standard.

[BooScout]

67. I was thinking the same thing.

Double standard.

[BooScout]

68. Apparently I thought it 3 times, lol n/t

[SidDithers]

69. Triple standard? :) nt

Sid

[BooScout]

72. nah...........fried modem. ;-) n/t

[Violet_Crumble]

71. I noticed that too...

And if this thread isn't locked, it's clear that there's some double standards at play here...

[Wonk]

73. I PMd the mod who locked the other one, saying the same thing.

I guess we'll just wait and see what happens.

[Violet_Crumble]

77. So did I n/t

[Wonk]

78. Might as well link to it, for folks who may have missed it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1791092&mesg_id=1791092

[DistressedAmerican]

70. LOCKING.

I am hereby enacting a citizen's locking on this flamebait.
:yoiks:

[BooScout]

74. CItizen's locking?

Now I have Gomer Pile (Or was it Goober?) running around in my head.:silly:

Citizen's arrest! Citizen's arrest!:silly:

[Violet_Crumble]

76. Liberals and progressives care about ALL civilians...

That's why I won't spot them throwing hissy-fits and threatening to leave coz people are rightfully angry that a whole lot of Lebanese children have been killed. If yr attitude is that, then I have zero in common with you, thank goodness...

[Codeine]

86. I'd be very sorry to see you go, NadinB

Your posts are among those I *always* click on for a breath of rational fresh air. DU will be lessened by your absence. :hug:

[readmoreoften]

88. Take some time off and come back.

There is a great divergence of opinion on DU regarding these issues. I just try to avoid those debates. I know what I think and I'm not going to convince anyone.

Hope you stay, NB

[InaneAnanity]

90. Atrocities committed against Jews...

...do not give Jews license to committ atrocities against others.

It's as simple as that.

Do the Native Americans have license to murder?? No. Nor does Israel.

[MrBenchley]

91. This is at least the third time I know of

you've announced you're leaving never to return, Nadine.

[marmar]

95. Why do people who say they're leaving the board....

always feel compelled to announce it to everyone?

[jonnyblitz]

98. anybody with any class would just go and spare us the drama. nt

[marmar]

99. You read my mind....

:hi:

[jonnyblitz]

107. ..

:hi:

[Wonk]

105. Guess what? She's back already. That was quick.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1799775&mesg_id=1799775

[jonnyblitz]

106. yup. I saw...I got in trouble on that thread. bad me.

I get angry when somebody plays the holocaust card to shut people up when it has nothing to do with the topic at hand.OH WELL!.

[Zynx]

100. I am personally stunned by the support for Hezbollah.

And yes I do have to assume support since there are so few condemnations.

All those who like to root for Hezbollah to beat Israel should remember that this is a group that oppresses women, supports the killing of homosexuals, and has no intention of allowing religious freedom if it has its way.

[Lerkfish]

103. point me to any post supporting Hezbollah

certainly none by me personally. Nor have I seen any.

that's a false dichotomy, btw: you don't have to support Hezbollah to be appalled by policy of Isreal.

[Jara sang]

108. I don't believe in hell.

It does sound like you are in a "hell" of your own mind though. I pity you.

[Lerkfish]

110. this thread is still up without being locked?

intriguing.

[ComerPerro]

111. What we are doing in Iraq is so right and just, right?

[Bretttido]

113. Yeah?

the same people who are always asking for investigations and justice are willing to suspend all of this... in the name of hatred.

Suspend investigation and justice? WTF are you talking about. How about suspending bombing civilians.

somehow for the last 2000 years Jewish blood is far less valuable... this is not the last two weeks, it is the last 2000 years.

What ass did you pull that line out of? Maybe you should look at some numbers... over TEN TIMES as many palestinian civilians have been killed as jewish civilians. And the same goes for Lebanese civilians.

Yes I have read over the last two weeks, many of the same blood libel arguments I have read in the past, as well as lines straight from the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, which are now part of the general culture.

Did you see the bill passed by congress several days ago? 100% approval from the Senate and 99% from the house... yet you think the general culture is anti-Israel? The views expressed here are in the minority my friend... because any talk against Israeli action is immediately cast as anti-semite, which you have so proudly demonstrated as a good marcher against cognitive dissidence.

Congratulations... see you in hell, for that is where we are going for sure.

As much as a love self-pity followed by indiscriminate hate for all who disagree with you, I couldn't give a rats ass where you think we're going. Just don't bring us down with you.