Let's be clear: Israel LIED about Qana.

[DistressedAmerican]

They said that they were targeting a nearby rocket launcher. The told that story over and over while blaiming the victims of the attack on Hezbollah. They backed that lie up with the release of several videos that DID NOT SHOW THE QANA ATTACK AT ALL. Those videos were widely reported as video of the attacks. I watched MSNBC say if for sevral hours (even though FOX was clear about them not being the attack, go figure).

That same footage played over and over while commentators said that while it is not video of the events, the events were very similar. Pure bullshit. The events were nothing like that. They full well knew it too.

The IDF said that they had pictures of the incident would show that they were attacking a launcher. They saud that they were "processing" them and would release them soon. Another blad faced lie as no such incident took place.

Now the IAF has come out (very quitely) and clearly admitted that THERE WERE NO ROCKETS FIRED FROM QANA immediatley before the strike. The whole story was a massive lie and cover-up for a war crime. LIE AFTER DELIBERATE LIE.

Nothing less.

So listen up, if you are still under the impression that the IDF was firing on a rocket launcher, you have been duped. If you think that you saw video of the rockets being launched and the launcher hiding in the builbing or another nearby, you've been duped.

Next time demand the evidence before believeing the word of war criminals desperate to cover their atrocities.

They are PROVEN liars and admitted murderers. Not to be trusted without iron-clad PROOF.

[Poll_Blind]

1. The only people who need convincing already have fingers in their ears.n/t

PB

[eFriendly]

3. Sad, isn't it? n/t

[jonnyblitz]

5. yup, they are just spewing the talking points like little robots.

"Israel has the right to defend it self, everybody else does it, too, why don't you complain about them(like we don't), why do you hate Israel?, Hezbollah are terrorists," etc, etc, etc. blah blah, blah,....

[bryant69]

6. Wait a moment, some people claim Hezbollah are Terrorists?

That's crazy!

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[jonnyblitz]

14. i am saying it is one of the talking points people throw out

I am not saying one way or the other what i personally think about hezbollah, I dont know enough about them and, frankly, the people who tell me they are terrorists tell me bullshit about everything else so why should i trust them. we label anybody we are against as terrorist.

[bryant69]

16. I suppose you could like, read some books or something

Or visit websites.

Nah, too much trouble. Easier to just assume that if the Bush Administration says the sky is blue, it must be red.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bryant69]

27. You seem very touchy

Can I assume you don't know much about Hezbollah when you tell me you don't know enough about Hezbollah to see them as a terrorist group?

[manic expression]

69. Terrorist group?

kind of like the IDF. Ask yourself why Hezbollah was formed. Ask yourself what escalated this conflict. Ask yourself where the fault lies. Then maybe, just maybe, you'll get somewhere.

[JudyM]

121. Okay, why was Hezbollah formed? nt

[manic expression]

128. Well

Check out Israel's occupation of southern Lebanon. That's basically when the group came into prominence.

Here's a link I found:

"With the United States’ refusal to support nonviolent means to force Israel to withdraw, and with a historically weak central government, Lebanese formed their own militias to fight the occupiers. The most significant was Hezbollah, a radical Islamic group composed mostly of Shi’ite Muslims from the farming villages adjacent to Israeli-held territory. Even Lebanese who did not agree with the militia’s fundamentalist ideology saw them as freedom fighters, trying to liberate their country from a foreign military occupation." (that was in 1978 IIRC)

http://www.thejerusalemfund.org/carryover/pubs/20000901ib.html

[cool user name]

63. Image and Reality of the Israel Palestine Conflict

Is a fantastic book. Extremely well sourced and very informative.

I highly recommend it to anyone who wants to understand the conflict sans all the empty rhetoric and talking points.

I've been meaning to read "Beyond Chutzpah" ... it's on my list. So many books, so little time.

[LiberalVoice]

24. I know about Hezbollah.

I know alot of them are terrorists. I also know that they have helped bring food and shelter to those who need it. During this conflict and others. Personally I dont think it even comes close to making up for the innocent people they have murdered. I wouldn't mind seeing the entire organization wiped out. And if there is a hell(which i very much doubt) then I surely hope to see them in it.

But the Israeli Govt. IMO is just as callous towards the deaths of arabs, if not more. They have better weapons, so they kill more innocent people.

[bryant69]

31. I would agree with that.

[daydreamer]

49. Read some books, that's a good idea. The question is only written by

whom.

[cali]

28. Both side spew out talking points

and you do plenty of that yourself. pots, kettles/motes and eyes.

[DistressedAmerican]

11. Don't forget my personal favorite:

"Hey at least Israel is willing to invstigate themselves. Hezbollah wouldn't."

Like that make Israel any less giulty of war crimes! Some have sold their souls and our country to Israel and will never understand how wrong there were to do so.

Screw them. I hold them as responsible as those dropping the bombs! I mean it. JUST AS RESPONSIBLE.

[xultar]

2. THERE WERE NO ROCKETS FIRED FROM QANA immediatley before the strike

THERE WERE NO ROCKETS FIRED FROM QANA immediatley before the strike
THERE WERE NO ROCKETS FIRED FROM QANA immediatley before the strike
THERE WERE NO ROCKETS FIRED FROM QANA immediatley before the strike
THERE WERE NO ROCKETS FIRED FROM QANA immediatley before the strike
THERE WERE NO ROCKETS FIRED FROM QANA immediatley before the strike
THERE WERE NO ROCKETS FIRED FROM QANA immediatley before the strike

Just in case people forget...

THERE WERE NO ROCKETS FIRED FROM QANA immediatley before the strike
THERE WERE NO ROCKETS FIRED FROM QANA immediatley before the strike
THERE WERE NO ROCKETS FIRED FROM QANA immediatley before the strike
THERE WERE NO ROCKETS FIRED FROM QANA immediatley before the strike
THERE WERE NO ROCKETS FIRED FROM QANA immediatley before the strike
THERE WERE NO ROCKETS FIRED FROM QANA immediatley before the strike

Just in case peope want to say that the videos were real...

THERE WERE NO ROCKETS FIRED FROM QANA immediatley before the strike
THERE WERE NO ROCKETS FIRED FROM QANA immediatley before the strike
THERE WERE NO ROCKETS FIRED FROM QANA immediatley before the strike
THERE WERE NO ROCKETS FIRED FROM QANA immediatley before the strike
THERE WERE NO ROCKETS FIRED FROM QANA immediatley before the strike
THERE WERE NO ROCKETS FIRED FROM QANA immediatley before the strike

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. You sure?

I want this reviewed by an International body, but I am not willing to hang somebody before looking AT ALL THE EVIDENCE, but there you go... have the emotions rule the day ok.

Which is precisely the point made in War: A Force that Gives us Meaning... go on read it, think, but stop having your knee jerk and have that reaction

by the by, I also want that same body investigate them claims that the other side is using human shields... oh never mind, it would be part of the investigation.

And if they find that this is the case, like all fog of war situations it will not be as clear cut as you seem to think behind your computer.

Oh and to add, I am obviously pro israeli since I do expect the reasonable thing to be done here and it is to investigate instead of getting my blood boiling and my knees jerking.

[DistressedAmerican]

7. Yes I am.

Keep calling for everyone to reserve judgement while they have already admitted the lie. Do you REALLY think the IAF is going to state that there were no rockets if there were. Murderer admits to murder and all you can say it let's reverve judgement. No.

You can reserve your judgement as long as you would like. Be like Bush on global warming. Just try to turing it into a debate rather than taking action to correct it.

I'll be out trying to stop the senseless killing. You can enable it all you want by insisting that we not judge until hundreds more die.

Not me.

[LiberalVoice]

10. Thats the same excuse * uses...

...when people criticize him. Israel has already admitted there were no rockets fired from Qana...So why would they intentionally keep the lie going?

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. I want an investigation

that is all I am asking, but I am pro Israeli for asknig the logical thing. Thanks for playing

[LiberalVoice]

17. Jeebus...

You are the one who brought up the Pro-Israel thing. No one else. Good luck getting a legitimate investigation to. Its just sad really.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. This has a history that does not invovle you

so sorry for taking it up on you, as is... I'd better go get my work done, and from now on, keep my nose clean and just do what I need to survive in this new world order.

[LiberalVoice]

42. Peace

:hippie:

[Kailassa]

46. ........

:hi:

[RagAss]

106. don't leave....use the ignore feature....it's been a pleasure here since

I started using it....

[meganmonkey]

55. Red Cross: 'No Hezbollah Rockets Fired from Qana'

Does that count as an International body?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1790261

:shrug:

[Warren Stupidity]

96. No amount of evidence will suffice.

Israel Can Do No Wrong. And that is that. Evidence to the contrary must be put aside.

[RagAss]

108. Good point... one need only turn on the TV to see your argument upheld

[ThomCat]

126. Funny, you seem willing to hang half the people in Lebanon

without a "ALL THE EVIDENCE." Why the sudden desire for due process only when Israel is taking heat?

Besides, didn't you say you were taking your bat and ball and going home?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

8. Israel's been lying about everything.

From their ship that got hit to the temporary cease-fire.

[ClassWarrior]

9. Let's be clear: Both sides are KILLING human beings.

NGU.

[LiberalVoice]

12. And thats not being debated.

Why you would choose to post that in a thread about the killing of at least 60 innocent people by Israeli forces in Qana I dont know.

[DistressedAmerican]

15. Keep justifying war crimes and their cover-up.

You are WRONG to do so. Morally and ethically dead wrong.

Sickening.

[ClassWarrior]

62. Did you say it's "sickening" that I oppose killing without regard to side?

Are you saying it's "morally and ethically dead wrong" to be against the taking of another human being's life?

What "war crimes" advocate the preservation of precious human life? Link please...

:shrug:

NGU.

[DistressedAmerican]

64. You advocated that where exactly?

Seems to me like your main goal was to deflect cricism in THIS event. The event discussed in the OP. Was I wrong? Were you not replying to my OP?

I do not see anything about you rejecting the death on either side.

Just another attempt to say, "Hey Hezbollah does it too."

But, maybe I'm wrong.

Feel free to elaborate on THIS incident and then I'll know what your point on this thread is.

So far, I guess I do not.

[ClassWarrior]

67. I said both sides are killing human beings where I said...

..."Both sides are KILLING human beings." Maybe the capitalization threw you off.

Now why don't you burst a blood vessel over that, blind yourself with rage, and accuse me of more ridiculous stuff while defending more slaughter of your fellow human beings? That'd be helpful.

Peace.

NGU.

[DistressedAmerican]

73. Any interest in addressing the OP at all?

Any comment on the atack itself or the obvious cover-up? I have asked several times and all I'm getting in return is screaming. How about you address the OP? Is that so hard?

What are your feelings about THIS INCIDENT? What are your feelings about the cover-up? Are you able to answer those two simple questions? Hope you can this time. I see no point in asking a third time.

[ClassWarrior]

80. I know nothing about the incident, and I've addressed the OP in the way...

...that makes the most sense to me. I didn't scream or question any of your points. I simply said that killing is killing is killing. It's wrong. No matter who's the perpetrator. Period.

End of discussion.

Peace.

NGU.

[DistressedAmerican]

82. After all this time you know nothing about Qana?

Were've ya been?

[ClassWarrior]

89. I avoid this whole Israel/Arab issue for reasons that you...

...amply illustrated in your first few responses. People who have staked out positions on both sides lash out viciously without thinking at anyone who says boo. But I'm just plain tired of people advocating one side's killing versus the other's. So I had to say something.

Believe me, I'm no big fan of the nation of Israel. Yours just happened to be the thread that finally compelled me to speak up for un-biased peace.

NGU.

[DistressedAmerican]

91. Well, Glad you got it out then.

Don't bottle. It is bad for you.

(just to be clear: I'm not snarking you. I am serious. It is btter to speak up than let it become an issue.)

:hi:

Peace.

[ClassWarrior]

94. Agreed.

B-):thumbsup:

Peace.

NGU.

[mom cat]

33. But only one side has agreed to a ceasefire.

Lebanon agreed to the EU proposed ceasefire. Israel has not.

[Mass]

52. Lebanon is not fighting. They are just the battlefield.

Has any of the two forces (IDF and Hezbollah) agreed to a ceasefire?

[mom cat]

112. Hezbolla agreed to the EUceacefire proposal.

[daydreamer]

50. One serial killer killed 10 people, the other serial killer

killed 100 people. But the other serial killer was defending himself!

[Warren Stupidity]

97. Lets be clear: one side has caused 90% civilian casualties.

The other side something like 30%. One side is using high tech precision weaponry and surveillence systems, the other is not. The side with the good aim is the side causing the most civilian deaths and with the highest proportion of civilian to military.

Is that clear enough?

How many dead babies will buy a permanent cease fire?

[Kagemusha]

18. What I saw from Israeli sources about this was the following:

That the IAF had a plan to destroy several buildings (6, I think) around a PREVIOUS rocket launch site. One of these buildings was the one the 57 people died in.

I read that in Ha'aretz last night (online version).

[DistressedAmerican]

21. Story after lying story.

This time yesterday they were claiming a strike on a launcher 90 feet from the building that had fired three rockets immediately before hand.

They should really coordinate their lies. More convinvcing that way.

[Warren Stupidity]

99. When the explanation keeps changing

THEY ARE LYING!

Criminal investigation rule 1.

[bloom]

20. It's mostly people wanting their side to be the good guys.

Don't we all.


I gave that up with BushCo a long time ago. (I'm not on his side). I am on the side of the world - of world peace - and that's it.

[LiberalVoice]

29. Exactly.

With regard to the Israeli/Hezbollah conflict I choose neither. Both groups are complete fundamentalist/hardliner trash. I'm just here to rock the perceptions of these "Israeli-First" jackasses. :P

[Hubert Flottz]

22. "Not to be trusted without iron-clad PROOF. "

Sound like anyone else you can think of?

It did take the focus of the media off of the other war crime, in which four UN people were murdered, a couple of days before the children were targeted. Maybe it was meant to take some of the UN heat off?

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

23. you're a neo-nazi, holocaust revisionist

just kidding. i was called that today for bringing up a certain act of war against the US Navy

earlier today.

[DistressedAmerican]

25. I recall that act. I find myself re-examining it now.

[Name removed]

74. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

107. that subject is taboo

seems some people here don't want it brought up.

[Scurrilous]

30. Olmert urged to call for Qana inquiry

Association for Civil Rights in Israel demands official commission of inquiry into air raid that killed dozens of Lebanese civilians

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3284815,00.html

<snip>

"The Association for Civil Rights in Israel demanded Tuesday that Prime Minister Ehud Olmert order the establishment of an official commission of inquiry that would look into the Qana air raid, which left dozens of Lebanese civilians dead.

The Association is also calling for a probe into other incidents where Lebanese civilians were killed by the army.

The letter to Olmert charges that the Qana raid, "which led to the death of innocents, has a black flag flying over it, and seemingly constitutes a blatant violation of the two basic principles of international humanitarian and criminal law – the principle of distinction between fighters and civilians, and that of proportionality."

<snip>

"The Association also argued that IDF claims that rockets were fired at Israel from the village of Qana did not justify the bombing of a residential building. Following a probe, officials should look into the possibility of bringing to justice anyone suspected of violating the law, the Association said.

"A state that pretends to be democratic, moral, and law-abiding, must manage the fighting in accordance with international humanitarian and criminal law regulations," the Association noted. "The willingness to respect those regulations during times of crisis and times of war is what distinguishes moral, law-abiding states from countries that are not."

[malaise]

40. So, so, so

is the Association for Civil Rights in Israel also anti-Semetic?

So many lies have been thrown into the public opinion sphere that the IDF and Israeli government are now confused.

[tocqueville]

32. the French TV coverage of Qana corroborates your point

besides I saw today the covering of the evacuation of Bint Jbail :

- the town looks like Hiroshima
- there are no transportation means and artillery shelling still goes on
- people survive on candy and dirty water
- people leave by foot and die of exhaustion in the heat
- the hospital - very clearly marked - has been shelled several times and hit
- patients with "minor wounds"like shrapnel are sent home without treatment. Most are elderly, women and children
- people err in the ruins looking for water

judge by yourself. There are no excuses.

[JackNewtown]

58. Keep us updated on the French press' coverage!

The Ministry of Truth doesn't let us see things like that which run counter to the prescribed government line in the USA. :(

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AliceWonderland]

47. Awesome argument!

Precise, rational, compelling!

I applaud you, friend, for the excellent argumentation!

[stepnw1f]

61. you truely are in Wonderland Then

weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee :P

[Warren Stupidity]

102. I believe Alice took the sarcasm pill.

You know: One pill makes you sarcastic, and one pill makes you dull, and the pill that mother gives you don't do anything at all.

Where the fuck is Grace Slick when you need her?

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

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[LostinVA]

75. Ho-Ho-Ho

[manic expression]

70. Are you serious?

What...are...you...talking...about?

Israel is guilty of MURDER. There is NO JUSTIFICATION for what happened. NONE. Israel is most clearly guilty of a disgusting and terrible ATROCITY. That is a fact, and your pathetic denial changes absolutely NOTHING.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=1790261

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0801-02.htm

Disgusting...just disgusting.

[Name removed]

84. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

95. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

127. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[timtom]

131. Amen to that, ThomCat

Interestingly enough, I haven't seen one post alluding to the Neturei Karta (Orthodox Jewish rabbis against Zionism).

http://www.nkusa.org/

[Warren Stupidity]

101. When the explanation keeps changing

the explainers are lying. But your superior logic has overwhelmed us. We surrender.

[bvar22]

36. K&R

I have been a DU for a long time, and am seldom shocked by what I read here.
The last 2 weeks, I have been BAFFLED that seemingly sane Progressives, who oppose the Bush administration's criminally agressive WAR policies, blindly endorse the SAME behavior from Israel. :shrug:

[malaise]

43. I t has been an amazing

eye-opener. Shock is a euphemism.

[breakaleg]

37. Does anyone have the UN reaction to this news?

I'm hoping they'll come down really hard on Israel. And also hoping that now they will have enough public support to actually do something about it.

[malaise]

54. Here's todays UN Press Briefing

http://webcast.un.org/ramgen/pressbriefing/brief060801.rm

[deaniac21]

39. Hezbollah has a reputation for telling the truth going back to

their inception. Everything they do is for the children of Lebanon AND Israel. All they want is to be left alone to worship Allah and help the Lebanese government. This group is more like a Lebanonese Americorps than anything else. I don't understand how anyone could have a problem with such a beautiful group of civic minded do-gooders...:shrug:

[Hubert Flottz]

41. Were those little kids part of Hezbollah?

I didn't know that! Do you have proof?

[Warren Stupidity]

98. Here is the proof.

Obviously that is a dead Hezbollah terrorist. You can tell by looking. Look closely. Contemplate what has been done here. Understand my rage.

[tocqueville]

44. here are outside sources and journalists that do a serious inquiry

job. They don't take what the IDF says for granted, neither the Hezbollah. The ARE there (to the difference from US media pundits) take risks inside the war zone and do their job. When they come to a different conclusion than the official US/Israeli one, they are called "anti-semites". Nobody has bought that stuff in Europe for decades.
In the US people are slowly starting to wake up. The World isn't according to CNN or othe MSM. Haven't you noticed that ?

[deaniac21]

45. I know. The main thing that Hezbollah does is run schools and hospitals

because the Lebanese goverment doesn't do a very good job. I think they help with Habitat for Humanity, as well.

[malaise]

66. Well the Israeli army invaded

one of those hospitals a few hours ago.

[manic expression]

71. They have to invade hospitals!

They have to defend themselves!

:sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm:

:puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke:

[DistressedAmerican]

79. They are RIGHT NOW.

And apparently getting thweir ases kicked a bit too.

[JackNewtown]

59. A free press on foreign affairs?

:hide:

[AliceWonderland]

48. Sorry, what's your argument?

I am a little unclear.

Could you please clarify?

[Virginia Dare]

56. What does that have to do with the OP?...n/t

[deaniac21]

57. Merely pointing out that the Israelis have a track record of

lying about everything and Hezbollah has a track record of NEVER telling a lie and concentrating on good and just works.

[Warren Stupidity]

104. Another glaringly ridiculous argument. nt.

[hoboken123]

116. This is painful

Hezbollah is currently proposing a prisoner swap to retrieve the good and just Samir Kuntar. Who is he?

He's the wonderful fellow that bashed in a 4-year-old girl's head with a rock after shooting her father in front of her. And killed some policemen. And bragged about all of it.



I'm hoping you were being sarcastic.

[DistressedAmerican]

60. Hey, Keep Making Excuses For The Lying War Criminals.

Keep making your fucking excuses.

It does not change the basic fact that this attack WAS a war crime and it was intentionally covered-up with lies.

Let me ask you, did you believe say this time yesterday that they HAD been shooting at a rocket launcher?

If so, doesn't is piss you off in the least that you were duped like that?

Why defend the very people lying to you and making a fool of you?

[jrd200x]

65. Let's be clear. That's SPECULATION.

We'll never know.

But we do know that Hezbollah has done their share of blowing up innocent children in pizza parlors and buses.

[manic expression]

72. Red Cross workers disagree

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0801-02.htm

[DistressedAmerican]

76. Bullshit. The IAF has admitted that there was no launcher.

Why can you not take the word of the Israeli's when they admit their crime?

Greater believer in their innocence than they are?

[Ms. Clio]

86. No, we don't know that, because you're confusing Hezbollah with Hamas

it does not make you sound particularly intelligent or knowledgeable about this subject.

[Binka]

103. Do A Search

This poster is a bit confused.

[Ms. Clio]

110. yes

and then notice the sig line.

:rofl:

[Warren Stupidity]

105. Actually they haven't done a whole lot of that.

Mostly they have fought the Israeli military.

[SPKrazy]

68. If You Think That War Is Ever Without FOG

you are sadly mistaken

I doubt that they did anything except make a dreadful mistake, bad intel

[manic expression]

77. First, that is no excuse

Second, I don't think you fully grasp the aims and behavior of Israel. Look at the history of the conflict. Time and again, Israel has shown itself to have no respect for innocent life. Even in this case, the conflict was escalated by Israel, and not only have civilians been killed far more than combatants, but an entire country and an entire people have been targeted for collective and unjust punishment.

[SPKrazy]

81. Oh Yes I'm Sure Israel Is At Fault

so why even discuss it?

:sarcasm:

we all know that Israel is LOVED by all who surround her

especially that groupie gang called Hizbollah

[Ms. Clio]

87. christ, so predictable

don't ever let a fact penetrate.

[manic expression]

88. Anyone who looks at what happened is quite sure

If it is clear that nothing was coming from the town and Israel is responsible for killing 60 people, you'd be very safe in concluding that Israel IS at fault.

Israel finds itself without love precisely because of what Israel has done in the region. You don't occupy a large part of a country for years and get loved from the people living there; that's something any idiot can figure out (too bad our administration can't). You don't act belligerently and unjustly and get any love for it. You don't oppress, murder and steal from entire peoples and get loved for it. Try considering that, try considering the reality of the situation.

[laura888]

100. What are you talking about? n/t

[DistressedAmerican]

78. How about the lies? The cover-up?

They knew there was no launcher. It was a clear lie. They told it repeatedly. They released other films to try and back the lie. Now they admit it was a lie all along.

That is not the "fog of war" that is covering your asses with lies. Plain and simple. Certainly your "fog of war" excuse does not give them a pass on knowlingly lying about what they had done even if an accident as you assert.

[SPKrazy]

83. The First Casualty Of War Is Truth

and the fog takes care of the rest

Hizbollah needs to be taken out

I don't know that Israel is doing it the smartest way, but you gotta give her credit

Israel has finally taken themselves off the leash and showing their neighbors that you don't fuck with Israel, which is the ONLY language that bullies like Hizbollah understand BTW

[DistressedAmerican]

93. Well, I guess that makes it OK then!

I was clearly wrong to object to a cover-up of a war crime.

What was I thinking?

[SPKrazy]

117. There Hasn't Been A War Crime

so therefore there can be no cover up of one

[DistressedAmerican]

119. Indescriminate bombing of civilan centers IS a war crime as is collective.

punishment of the population. Both have taken place here.

Wake up. If you support this, you support clear violations of the Geneva Conventions.

Nice moral position that.

[SPKrazy]

124. Can You Prove "Indiscriminate"?

I think the civilian casualties would be a LOT higher if they had.

Who are you to judge my "moral position"?

I don't support letting terrorists operate freely in a country that can't eliminate them on their own.

If Mexico had terrorists who wanted to wipe the US off the map, would you be so blase about our right to defend itself?

If those terrorists hid themselves in areas where there were civilian populations, would you care?

If those Mexican terrorists had rockets that they launched at towns and cities along the border, killed a few now and then, would that be okay?

How dare you imply that I support clear violations of the Geneva Conventions when to date, there is no proof of anything like that.

[rman]

129. If they're that incompetent they shouldn't be playing with weapons

Time and time again the same stupid excuse.

[theanarch]

85. what seems to be the core question here is, why...

...does Israel respond to rocket fire when they know:

That Hezbollah sets up, fires, and immediately moves?

That the residents of the areas where the firing occurs have absolutely no say in, or control over, what Hezbollah does?

That the IDF cannot return fire in less time than it takes Hezbollah to vacate the area?

And that the only victims of the return fire will be civilians?

We all know why Hezbollah (on occasion, but not always) fires from civilian areas (so much the better if the neighborhood belongs to an unfriendly, or pro-Israeli, group); the question is, knowing all this (and yes, the IDF does know it), why they continue to play into Hezbollah's hands by returning (again, what they know will be militarily ineffective) fire?

[gulfcoastliberal]

90. Link to your proof?

[DistressedAmerican]

92. Here.

From Haaretz:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/745185.html

"It now appears that the military had no information on rockets launched from the site of the building, or the presence of Hezbollah men at the time.

The Israel Defense Forces had said after the deadly air-strike that many rockets had been launched from Qana. However, it changed its version on Monday."

Believe me now?

Funny how no one reported this big news on CNN or MSNBC. Wonder why? :shrug:

[annabanana]

109. how about the Greatest Page for this post & link?

So everyone can see it before they all meltdown..

sheesh

[SPKrazy]

120. If You Can Read The Rest Of Your Link

you find things like:

The site was included in an IAF plan to strike at several buildings in proximity to a previous launching site. Similar strikes were carried out in the past. However, there were no rocket launches from Qana on the day of the strike.

and then the part about how Israel's bomb explains one explosion, but it isn't clear whether the second was a bomb, or a Hizbollah ammo storage

now these provide some context for this

I wonder why you didn't include this stuff in your post, but were only interested in cherry picking what supported your view?

[DistressedAmerican]

122. FACT - THERE WERE NO WEAPONS IN THE AREA., THAT WAS A LIE

The rest of the article does not contradict that core fact.

You can call that cherry picking if you want. But, since they spent the past 48 hours saying OVER AND OVER that they targeted a launcher that was 90 feet away and had recently fired three rockets, I'd say that it is the core issue. They made it such with their lies. That is a hell of a lot of detail in the lie.

What I wonder about is why you are unwilling to just accept the basic facts (uncontradicted by the rest of the article) that there was no launcher despite REPEATED and forceful claims that they were?

Can't deal with reality? Denial too strong? Or does the reality not matter at all to you when 60 innocents die for NOTHING?

You tell me. It must be something.

Care to admit the facts now? Or are you just goiung to keep spinning for the always correct state of Israel?

[SPKrazy]

123. Look

I'm not always spinning for the "correct state of Israel"

I think you need to put a choke on that temper of yours

where did I ever say that there were rocket launchers in the area

I'm disputing your assertion that this was a deliberate cover up and your implication that they did it all on purpose

it's pretty clear to me that they thought there were rocket launchers there for some reason

the second explosion could have been an ammo storage, what was that doing there?

and while it said "could" your post about it quotes "It now appears that the military had no information on rockets launched from the site of the building" is not definitive either

TURN OFF THE CAPS LOCK

I've enjoyed your posts in the past, and we have a difference of opinion on this.

[DistressedAmerican]

125. It is NOT clear that they thought there was something there.

They have all kinds of recon.

They made the bogus claim over and over again to as many people would listen.

They CLAIMED they had photos to prove it and were just "processing them".

They put out several videos nowing full well they were not of the strike of anything they claimed were there to confuse the issue.

Most US networks reported at least for a while that they WERE videos of THE launcher and THE attack.

They also have all the motivation in the world to lie. There is nothing to indicate honesty here at all.

I have also not seen them make ANY effort to make the real facts known. They apparently only released it (quietly) to Haaretz. Not reported elsewhere. Where are all those folks that told the lies notw when it it time to set the record straight. that it what an honest person/government would do. AHve they? Have they made any real attempt to correct the false information that they put out for days?

There was a reported second explosion that you do not know what it was. But, I am supposed to just accept the assertion that it was an ammo dump and tell you what it was doing there? Pretty hard to explain the presence of something you do not even know to be present isn't it? When you have something more than vauge speculation about what is there, I'll talk to you about what you have. Even if there was, that does not bear on the question of truthfulness at all. They did not claim that they were targeting an ammo dump. They claimed that they were taking out a rocket launcher. They were not.

Right now, there is no solid evidence of any claim of their honest confusion. Since all previous claims were lies, I believe nothing without proof.

Sorry. I do not buy the "confusion" explanation. They were way too forceful pushing the lie on everyone, they had access to the information to KNOW it was a lie and they had motive. That and the fact that they are letting the lie stand basically uncorrected. Dishonset.

[gulfcoastliberal]

132. Thanks.

That really sucks.

I'm pro Israel but anti-war, anti-fascist, and anti-theocracy.

They've handled the situatiion horribly.

[DistressedAmerican]

111. Hello?

You asked me for a link.

I gave it to you and asked of you were now convinced. Are you still around?

[Mass]

113. You mean Haaretz is more honest than American newspapers?

Two days after, it publishes the fact that there was nothing. How long does it take to our govt and our media.

This does not mean it was right, but frankly why are you so excited about the fact that they try to misinform? If anything, it seems the Israeli democracy is working better than ours.

[DistressedAmerican]

114. Hello? Deliberate cover-up.

They put the lies out over and over and when people started to believe them they very quietly release this statement. There is no excuse for such deliberate lying. They knew full well it was a lie and they put it out anyway. It was an organized effort to lie their way out of the condemnation they deserve and LOOK! It worked!

Odd to me how some folks do not seem to think that lying to cover a war crime is any big deal.

[Mass]

115. How is it different from our govt? How long did it take before the media

said that the young girl in Iraq may have been raped.

I am not condoning what happened. I am just stating we are may be the worst placed to condemn them.

May be we should be remembering there is a place called Iraq (you know, the one we invaded).

BTW, the killing of innocent people is a BIG deal wherever it happens. This is why there should not be WARS if we can avoid them. The rest is BS.

BTW, I did not need Haaretz to doubt this was true.

[DistressedAmerican]

118. I find what we have done reprehensible too.

I have no problem condemning our own government for their crimes. Why should I? I do not support them. I have actively opposed them.

Surely, I do not lose all right to criticize other countries who act in an abusive manner just because my own government is fucked.

We should most definitely remember Iraq. I NEVER forget that. I just put out two new video projects on the topic today:

http://fooled.cf.huffingtonpost.com/

and

http://spy.cf.huffingtonpost.com/

I have plenty of energy to deal with both tragedies.

Totally agree with your last two lines though!

[killbotfactory]

130. not to mention...

that targeting a rocket launcher with a bomb big enough to take down a whole building seems a bit dubious.

they have rockets, I know that from the pictures of the caravans they have attacked while trying to flee.

[Moderator]

133. locking

This has become inflammatory.