If some enemy ever bombs my town and kills me, The US will

[SoCalDem]

be responsible for my death.. Just sayin'

You see the US military is "using" me and my fellow 150k (give or take a few thousand) as HUMAN SHIELDS.. I live less than a mile from a military target base..

Every military installation in the US (well MOST of them) ARE near "ordinary citizens", so if we are killed, it would not be the fault of the people dropping the bombs..it would be the fault of the US who operates those military targets in the midst of helpless citizens.

:evilgrin:

[opiate69]

1. Good point..

I'm less than a mile away from Fort Lewis.. .the biggest military base in Washington State..

[Viva_La_Revolution]

2. oh my!

Git it while it's hot!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

3. But, it would just be "birth pangs" for the New North America.

[napi21]

4. I don't know about all bases, but the Naval bases sure aren't all

around major populated places! My son was in the Navy for 16 years, and the bases he was stationed were all in god forsaken places. There were people there, but sure not a lot!

[PaulaFarrell]

21. The biggest navy base on the east coast is in norfolk, va

and on the east it's san diego. Fair amount of people in those 2 places.

[Robbien]

5. There are so many military bases in the US

almost every one of us lives within twenty miles of a military base.

According to the new rules being set down in the ME, we are all legitimate targets.

Thanks Georgie.

[GAPeace]

6. The Twin Towers had CIA/FBI offices

And you know where the Israeli logic goes there...

[TheWraith]

11. Actually, as I recall the CIA and FBI were next door, in WTC #7

Along with the SEC, NYC emergency operations center, and most of the other government offices. Course, that didn't save them when part of the towers landed on top of the building...

[KnaveRupe]

17. Huh?

Part of the towers landed on top of WTC 7?

First I've heard of it.

You mean the same amount of dust an debris that fell on every building in the area, right?

[QuettaKid]

26. ya might wanna check that "on top of the building" part.

WTC7 fell much later in the day, under still mysterious circumstances. NONE of the videos and photos show anything from WTC1&2 landing "on top of the building".

[GAPeace]

28. Oh so they were just aiming for the WTC #7 and missed it

/israeli logic

[upi402]

7. true

hiding under our skirts and shirts

[breakaleg]

8. while we're at it. if some enemy bombs my house, I'm fighting back.

[Bob Dole]

12. With what?

Are you going to shoot at the airplane with a 308?

[KnaveRupe]

18. Ah'll git mah squirrel rifle, and plink them bombers outta th' air!

Thank gawd ah've got me one o' them thar second amendments!!

[Bob Dole]

23. I, for one...

Demand that I have access to Stinger missiles in case of invasion.

[breakaleg]

24. not saying I will have the resources to make it effective right away...

just that it's my right to defend myself. It may take a while, and it may not take the form of rockets and bullets, but it certainly would be a fight.

Aren't we all entitled to that?

[MADem]

9. OK, and the third party enemy who are launching attacks at this

enemy of the US are doing so right near your house, and near that base, right??? And these proxies, controlled by this third government, have, in effect, taken over all of the police, charity, political, and social service functions in your neighborhood, and your local, state and federal entities are just sitting back and allowing this to happen....

I mean, if you want your strawman to match what is happening over in the Levant....

[Bob Dole]

10. With modern weaponry...

A mile is a considerable distance. 20 miles, much more so. Any relatively smart(GPS guided) bomb or missile(Which most countries in the world possess to some extent, even technological failures like North Korea) will not get remotely near a location if aimed at something a mile away, unless it's a nuke or extremely yield bomb like a MOAB, of course, in which the entire world is about to die anyway. Even any remotely modern gravity bomb won't go so terribly off course.


Even without such accuracy, you certainly have to admit the difference between having a base a mile(or 10, or 20 miles) away from your house, and having the military fire missiles from your lawn or roof.


When an MLRS pulls up in my yard and starts lobbing missiles, then they're using me as a human shield. Till a similar situation, no dice.

[tabasco]

20. Got news for ya', Bob.

US forces will comandeer your house and use it for whatever they want.

We do it all the time in Iraq and Afghanistan.

You think a mortar crew sets up in a clearing away from all civilians. LMAO. They set up right behind some Joe's house and start firing.

So I guess it would be hunky dory with you if the other side just blew the fuck out of the entire neighborhood, long after the mortar crew has departed.

Sorry, that's what's known as retribution against a civilian population, and a war crime.

[SoCalDem]

22. That's the ultimare "eminent domain"

Military just "commandeers" stuff...

[tabasco]

27. That's exactly how the US military operates in a war zone.

Or any other military in the world.

Not just those evil Hezbollah sneaky snakes.

[Erika]

13. Yeah, we had a SAC base within 40 miles in the 50's

and we were told to prepare for enemy attack because we were so close.

[Nevernose]

14. That's not a fair comparison, SoCal, + depends on where they're aiming

Hezbollah was given a chance at Bush's democracy. They got approximately 10 percent of Lebanon's democracy. Then they started kidnapping people and shooting rockets.

Every military installation in the US (well MOST of them) ARE near "ordinary citizens", so if we are killed, it would not be the fault of the people dropping the bombs..it would be the fault of the US who operates those military targets in the midst of helpless citizens.

Assume that 10% of the Mexican populace supports a small percentage of them. If history is any indication, we'd invade them. More importantly, Hezbollah and Hamas are not attacking Israel, they are trying to kill Jews and Israeli civilians and whatever Israelis they can. Israel kills civilians by accident; Hezbollah kills civilians on purpose, or at least by a lack of concern.

I truly, from the bottom of my heart, believe that the goal of the two sides is different. Israel is, essentially, a Western European nation; the Hezbollah forces who have illegally taken control of Southern Lebanon, are different, fascist. And it reeks of ethnocenterism when people claim that there is no difference between the two sides.

[Warren Stupidity]

16. "Then they started kidnapping people and shooting rockets."

Well no that is not what happened.

First they were not shooting rockets at anyone. Outside of the Shebba Farms border dispute, there had been very little conflict between Hezbollah and the IDF. There was one rocket attack between the IDF withdrawal in 2000 and the current invasion, against Kiryat Shimona, and that was in response to an Israeli assasination attack in Beirut. Hezbollah rockets did not start flying again until two days after the IDF started bombing the crap out of Lebanon.

Second, Hezbollah did not 'start kidnapping people', they captured two IDF combatants in a border conflict, the details of which are still rather murky. Combatants are captured, not kidnapped, and both sides have done this sort of thing to each other on and off since the IDF withdrew from Lebanon in 2000. The last time Hezbollah captured IDF combatants Israel and Hezbollah negotiated an exchange of prisoners.

The real question is why did Israel and Washington want another big war right now. That is a question you should be asking yourself, that is if you can possibly see beyond the ideological blinders that you have saddled yourself with.

[lostnfound]

15. Enablers / supporters vs captives / bystanders?

Enablers/supporters: I suppose some would argue that to the extent that you enabled or supported combatants, you are not innocent. If there were only adults around who had not engaged in combat but had supported and enabled the combatants, I suppose there would be logic to holding them accountable -- and fair targets -- as well. Yet children are always innocent, and as a believer in the sacred value of an individual life, I personally have trouble justifying any use of force that has any significant probability of killing civilians.

Captives / bystanders: At the opposite end of the arguments, however, is the idea that by targeting the combatants you are freeing the civilian population from a cursed presence that has been causing them harm. There's something about this argument that reminds me of Beslan. Would anyone ever recommend the bombing of a building where terrorists were holding people captive? Never. The goal of resolving a situation like Beslan is always to free the captives without killing them and to kill or capture the culprits without harming the captives. When a crazy man is shooting from a building or on public streets on CNN at bystanders, there is no suggestion that a bomb is a way to get rid of him. Obviously it's not as easy to resolve but no one ever said ethics was easy.

During the early days of the Iraq war, so many war supporters would argue that the 'collateral damage' of civilian deaths was a small price for winning the freedom of te Iraqi people and getting Saddam out of power. I always wondered whether, if the laws of natural consequences were distorted such that it took the bombing of one of their OWN hometowns (to get rid of Saddam), whether these war supporters would still consider it worthwhile.

I was taught to believe in the sacredness of every human life, and I think I took it to heart. There are those who feel compelled to take armed action against armed evil, and there are dozens of phrases thrown at those of us who believe that this is the wrong approach. We pacifists are "naiive", "enablers", "cowards", etc. To every rule there is an exception, and I am certainly glad that action was taken to stop a certain evil madman in the 1940s.

[Crunchy Frog]

19. I get so pissed when I think about 9/11...

at the US government. If they hadn't been behaving as tyrants all over the world, there wouldn't have been people pissed off enough to fly planes into our buildings. Face it, the WTC was part of the infrastructure that supports our governments criminal activities.

It saddens me that all those innocent people had to die, just because our government and corporations want to violently dominate the entire planet.

[sandnsea]

25. Hezbollah isn't the Lebanese military

But yeah, it is rather stupid for there to be military bases among civilian populations. I don't think they were when they were originally built however. Still, Hezbollah isn't the military so your argument has no basis in reality to begin with.