"There is something fundamentally wrong with the war where there are more

[Wisconsin Larry]

dead children than armed men," Egeland told reporters after the closed-door briefing. "It has to stop."

"NEW YORK, 28 July (IRIN) - Top United Nations Humanitarian Coordinator Jan Egeland proposed a 72-hour humanitarian ceasefire to the UN Security Council on Friday in an effort to rescue children and infirm trapped by the ongoing violence between the Hizbollah militia and the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) in southern Lebanon."

Complete article at http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/IRIN/54937fc55776f55f77b0b72d642ce5f9.htm

This is not about "Israel's right to defend itself" -- it's about the neocon's wish to put the Mideast in flames to perpetuate their hold on power. Any Dem that mouthes the "right to defend itself" BS needs to be called and told to stop spouting Rove propaganda. Supporting Israel's invasion just makes us less secure. It's time to stand up and join the world community.

[mom cat]

1. Amen to that!

[Redstone]

2. Ahem...Iraq? And no, Democrats who support Israel do not need to be

"called and told to stop spouting Rove propaganda."

We have a right to our opinions, same as you do.

Redstone

[barb162]

5. You're right , Redstone.

:hi:

[Redstone]

10. Haven't seen you in a long time, peaches. How you been?

Or I may have, and I forgot. You know how I am.

Redstone

[barb162]

15. Things have been rough on these boards the last few weeks

haven't they? I'm fine though! Perplexed by all the flaming going on, etc. I wish people would start getting back on track to little topics like elections are going to be held in about three months. November is around the corner.

[Redstone]

18. Like elections, and that pesky little war in Iraq.

Glad to hear you're doing well.

Redstone

[barb162]

20. We're on the same page there!

[Wisconsin Larry]

6. Yes, a right to an opinion but part of what I object to is putting it in

sound bites, e.g., "right to defend itself". Sure Hizbollah was wrong to kidnap 2 Israeli soldiers. But the response is to bomb Lebanon back to the stone age? The Beirut airport was a launching pad for Hizbollah missiles? the roads out of southern Lebanon were also destroyed before before the populace was told to leave. And the Lebanon government is at fault for not destroying Hizbollah? Israel can't either. How this is defensible is beyond me.

[doc03]

23. I agree, I think it's cowardly to bomb them from 10000 feet and

kill 100 civilians to get one bad guy. Shouldn't the military go in on the ground and face their enemy in a fair fight, after all that's what they are paid for. Israel is doing exactly what the overwhelming majority on DU accuse the US of doing in Iraq, but since it's Israel people seem to be able to justify it. The west accuses Hizbollah of indiscriminately firing missiles into Israel and killing civilians yet it's just fine for Israel to do it since they have "smart bombs" that only kill the people that deserve it. If you have WWII technology and kill civilians it's bad but if you have "smart bombs" and kill 10 times as many it's justified.

[barb162]

26. Who started this mess? Several soldiers were killed and

kidnapped. Then the hez rockets. Why should Israel go in with ground troops and get boobytrapped by Hez? Hez doesn't seem to give a damn that they are killing people in Israel with their rockets or that people in Lebanon are getting killed. They are not keeping it to a ground war.

[doc03]

44. I presume the soldiers are still alive, how does that justify

killing hundreds of civilians. When the students in Iran took the hostages Jimmie Carter could have gone off half cocked like the Chimp and nuked Iran and killed millions of innocent people, instead cooler heads prevailed and everyone came out alive. So when the damn Muslims flew planes into our buildings the Chimp was perfectly justified to go murder 100000 civilians in Iraq I guess. We went over and picked a fight in Iraq, we have the most powerful military in the world by far and the so called insurgents have to fight us on their terms. You know the civilian death toll is 10x more in Lebanon, but since Israel has our "smart bombs" they only kill the bad guys I guess. If Israel was concerned about civilian casualties why did they destroy all the bridges, roads and airports so the civilians couldn't escape? The limited area that Hizbollah is able to reach in Israel has been mostly evacuated and their rockets are 1940's technology not US bunker busters.

[Wisconsin Larry]

33. What's even worse is that we are suppling the bombs! n/t

[Jim Sagle]

11. Fuckin' A.

[uppityperson]

3. aye

[barb162]

4. And I guess defending myself if some mugger assaults me

is Rove propaganda too. Actually you need to check the Geneva Conventions about sovereign nations and self defense. You're wrong. Has NOTHING to do with Rove. Plenty of Democrats think Israel is doing the right thing

[Wisconsin Larry]

7. Disportionate response is the what comes to mind. If I'm mugged, I sho

not only shoot the mugger but all his neighbors as well?

[Redstone]

16. Well, a guy tried to mug me once at 20th and south in Philadelphia.

He stabbed me in the forearm with his knife, and I picked up an empty bottle (I remember it was square, so it could have been Jack Daniel's) and broke it across the side of his head. With the corner of the square bottle. I remember that too.

He dropped like a rock. I beat feet outa there, so to this day I don't know if I killed him or not.

Was that disproportunate? If he died?

To this day, I wonder about it without much giving a fuck if I killed him or not. He started it. And probably would have stabbed me in the chest if I'd been slower.

Redstone

[barb162]

19. I wish I had a dollar for every time someone mentions

disproportionate response. Where are all the people who are posting about Israel and NOT posting on Somalia and Darfur and disproportionate response. I find it bewildering that hundreds of thousands of people get offed/murdered in Africa and nobody around here seems to give a damn.

[dionysus]

29. Barb, i know about that, i'm not ignorant

this is a post about the ME. what have you done abour Darfuf to preach so?

[barb162]

32. When I posted a few threads a while back on Somalia and

Darfur, they got basically zero to a few responses. So I have to wonder, why all the outrage on Israel and nothing on militants in Somalia killing thousands of little kids and basically nothing on Hez. And by the way, it's not really a preach, it's a question: Why

[jberryhill]

37. How Many Billions in Foreign Aid and Support Do We Give Sudan?

I don't go around correcting the behavior of other people's children, but I do keep an eye on how MY kids behave in public.

[JackNewtown]

50. Let me guess

$3 billion less than we give Israel? ;)

[enuffs_enuffs]

53. Africa isn't the pretext for WW3

How's that for calous...

[barb162]

22. If you're mugged and you can call the police, maybe they can catch

the perp and send him/her to jail. But you have the right to defend yourself. Israel is doing the same thing since the UN may or may not act and who knows when they may act. Maybe Lebanon should have controlled Hezbollah and NONE of this ever would have happened.

[jonnyblitz]

17. so if you get mugged are you going to blow up the whole

fucking street the mugger lives on to defend yourself? :crazy:

[barb162]

28. No I would call the police, but I sure as hell have the right to defend

myself if I can. Israel doest have the right to defend itself. And oh, the mugger is responsible for damage, not the muggee.

[Moochy]

21. Baby killers on both aisles!

Yay for equal opportunity murder!

[barb162]

30. If WW2 were fought your way, we'd be living under Hitler's

people. Sorry, war's a dirty business, but sometimes they have to be fought. Hez shouldn't have started one

[dionysus]

25. if you got mugged and forced the guy off,

would you blow his head off and go kill the entire block?

there's your analogy

[enuffs_enuffs]

8. Right on! Nuff said! n/t

[dionysus]

27. what? huh? i asked a question beatch

go back to your budweiser

[enuffs_enuffs]

51. Errr... Wasn't your response pointed to another???

You asked no question of me... I was responding to the OP. Do YOU have any idea who you were responding to...

[EVDebs]

9. What "peace" means, according to Arafat et al

"Peace for us means the destruction of Israel. We are preparing for an all-out war, a war which will last for generations."
Yasser Arafat

[Mr_Spock]

13. Arafat is dead

What is your point?

[jonnyblitz]

52. LMFAO

:crazy:

[bvar22]

12. How can good progressives....

who oppose the criminally aggressive War policies of the Bush administration, endorse the very same policies when perpetrated by the government of Israel? :shrug:

[Mr_Spock]

14. I've been asking that question over and over again

So far it's just more American hypocrisy - something I thought we were better than here on DU.

I was wrong :(

[barb162]

34. ?

"criminally aggressive War policies of the Bush administration"????

Israel defending its sovereignty gets mixed in with that? Now if you mentioned Iraq, I'd agree. Israel defending itself is a whole 'nother ball of wax.

[bvar22]

38. The entire NeoCon justification for destroying a country...

...was self-defense.

Israel is a superpower.
Destroying a country (especially a fledgling Democracy) to swat a gnat is absurd....as absurd as the US invading Iraq in self-defense.

The provocation of Hezbollah from Southern Lebanon deserved a response on the level of commando raids specifically targeting the offending sites....NOT the wide spread destruction and imprecise bombing of civilian locations. THIS response IS "The Bush Doctrine".

I am baffled you (and others) can't see it. :shrug:

[Mr_Spock]

40. Apparently some DUers love killing as much as Bush.

They are hateful and could justify the killing of millions if the "self-defense" moniker could be attached to it. As if a super-power bully really needs to "show off" by slaughtering people when it clearly is not necessary.

I am disgusted that such hateful rotten people are posting here.

[bling bling]

42. Couldn't they just have a different perspective? Maybe?

It's not the most mature argument to equivocate the democrats who disagree with you with blood-thirsty, death-loving monsters who LOVE the thrill of slaughter.

That's gross.

Just keepin it real.

[Mr_Spock]

43. I cannot come to terms with the slaughter of children by a ME superpower

If getting riled up because children are being slaughtered unnecessarily makes me seem immature, then I plead goo-goo ga-ga.

I didn't equivocate democrats who disagree with me as blood-thirsty, I said that people who post here who agree with the slaughter of innocent people in a third-world country by a superpower are, by definition, promoting horrible violence and there can be no other view on murder.

[bling bling]

45. Please, read the heading of your message. "Love killing."

And if you are riled up about children being slaughtered, then I'm with you!! It makes me disgusted and absolutely sick to my stomach. Israel may have a legitimate cause and all, but they have crossed the line. I feel that if they can't fight Hizballah without all the miscalculated and accidental killing of innocents than they need to get back to the boardroom and either FIGURE IT OUT or knock it off until they can. It's inexcusable.

I agree with the heading of the thread, about it being fundamentally wrong that more innocent children have died so far than armed men. WTF????

I don't have a problem with people who disagree with Israel (other than the people who go over the top with their hatred and call it a terrorist state or claim Israel should be exterminated). But I don't have a problem with the people who see the other side of the situation. I guess I can see both sides. It's a very, very, controversial issue. I just don't think it's in the best interest for our cause for us to be attacking each other over our different perspectives and/or attributing "agenda's" to the people who disagree with us (not that you said anything about an agenda, I've seen it in lots of other posts though...the mentality that "you either agree with my opinion, or you're a Rove following neo-con").

[Mr_Spock]

46. Fair enough

I am just not seeing the perspective of those who agree with the hardline RWer neocons in both the USA & Israel. I'm at a loss as to how anybody of good conscience can simply repeat the "defending themselves" talking point with a straight face. It's baffling to me. Mind-twistingly devoid of logic.

[bling bling]

47. Understood.

I can see the POV that Israel can and should protect itself from Hiballah. However, from what I understand (which, admittedly, is limited) it does not appear to me that Israel was under any type of imminent catastrophic threat at this very moment. That being the case, and the fact that so many innocent people have been killed by their errant bombing, it seems the very least they should do (as civilized people) is pause and take some more time and consideration to revise their strategy so that they can try to achieve their goal of dismantling Hizballah without destroying so many innocent people's lives.

But, that's just my opinion. That and a dollar will get you a cup of coffee, or however that goes. Good night.

[Mr_Spock]

48. I agree.

Their strategy is flawed - they need to regroup and STOP killing so many civilians.

[leftofthedial]

24. but Israel has a right to defend herself

and kill evil, bad, nasty Hezbollah who won't rest until every last Jew is dead.

Kill kill kill!

Bad! Nasty! Evil!

Kill! Kill! KILL!

[barb162]

36. When a country is attacked without provocation , I see

nothing funny about it.

[Mr_Spock]

41. The punishment for kidnapping is 500 sacrificed to the gods

Your justification for mass slaughter by a nuclear armed superpower bully on a third world country is contemptible.

[leftofthedial]

49. nothing funny! Kill!

Kill!

Israel attacking Lebanon is not funny!

Kill them too!

Kill! Kill! Kill 'em dead!

More death! More! More!

It's the only answer, don't you see?

[Wisconsin Larry]

31. Fanning the flames, "DAMASCUS (Reuters) - Syrian President Bashar al-Assad

told the Syrian military on Monday to raise its readiness, pledging not to abandon support for Lebanese resistance against Israel."

Full text here,
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060731/ts_nm/mideast_assad_dc;_ylt=AlRbxOcvTIHnNBQxgbaxFOGs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--

Will Iran be next? It's the neocon's Santa delivering early.

[samsingh]

35. dead children - feels so awful

[Wisconsin Larry]

39. And the pictures of those little body bags are horrific. n/t