Is Israel a puppet of the US or are we a puppet of Israel?

[dionysus]

I don't say this in jest...

We're pretty much the only country on the planet rah-rah-ing this madness.

Does that mean the rest of the world is evil and anti-semitic?

What are they holding over us that we approve of this shit?

[soulcore]

1. Seriously, I've been debating this internally

...since the conflict started, and it's only gotten more and more uncertain as I've watched events unfold.

I've lurked here for a while and don't post much, usually stick to browsing LBN, and just keeping myself informed, but this is madness we are seeing here now, and I fear it will drag us into a very widespread regional war.

[dionysus]

2. there has to be way more behind this than we know

n/t

[KAT119]

39. US NEOCON=ZIONIST LIKUD!!! GET IT???

[dionysus]

41. i get the concept, but fail to see how it helps the U.S.

that rapture shit is fairy tales

[BuyingThyme]

49. The people who run the U.S. have no interest in serving the U.S.

They are parasites.

[leftchick]

52. lol! It was never about helping the US

beyond the rapture shit, of which I think bush is the only one who follows that, think $$$, Power and OIL! The Neocons have hegemony and control of middle east resources (oil!) in mind for like, FOREVER! Is it making sense now?

Read "A Clean Break" and all becomes crytal clear.

[northamericancitizen]

3. I am asking myself the same question...eom

[adriennui]

4. of course we're israel's puppet

the "you know who's" have finally gotten control of the world.the KKK have been warning us for years. the solar system is next.

[dionysus]

7. thats so clever and condescending.

it is an honest question, i guess you don't have the answer.

[dionysus]

9. yeah i'm a fucking klansman

and i hate kittens too. woo-hoo... you finally figured me out. you're so clever....

that is your idea of a thinking person's post?

[last1standing]

5. None of the big players give a Damn about religion.

In the eyes of the West, the fight between Israel and the rest of the area is based on oil. Most western European countries (and now China and India) support the Arabs because they want oil concessions. The US supports Israel because those in charge of our foreign policy want higher oil prices. By maintaining such a high level of friction in the Middle East, the oil companies are able to rake in record profits year after year. Then there's always the armament corporations who make a killing (pun intended) from these conflicts. I know there's a very generous Israeli lobby in the US but they mostly just play into the hands of the other two lobbies.

I know this is a rather simplistic answer, but I think its about as close to the truth as you'll find.

[Behind the Aegis]

6. Just when I thought I saw the insanity begining to slow...

...up pops this crap again. Lord, this gets so old!

[adriennui]

we're sinking into the abyss

this is surreal.

[wurzel]

8. Maybe we should be called "USrael"? n/t

[dionysus]

11. this question, was not meant to be flamebait.

1 You have pretty much everyone outraged over this shit, except our admin

2 That either means the vast majorities of the world's countries are either
a) anti-semitic
b) legitimately pissed off

so there has to be a reason we are the lone supports. what is it? i ask because i don't know.

[voter x]

19. clever

did you come up with that by yourself?:applause:

[JohnLocke]

10. Far-right anti-Semitic BS.

[dionysus]

13. i guess you can't answer that question.

so you call me a far-right anti-semite. well, go pound sand, jerk. there is a reason why we are the only one supporting this.

what is it? i asked because i don't know. you don't even have a semi-rational response, and never answered the questions in (on edit) post 8

[JohnLocke]

17. An irrational/loaded question is not entitled to a rational response.

Been reading The Protocols of the Elders of Zion lately? :eyes:

[dionysus]

22. can't you even address my question?

must you be rude?

[MercutioATC]

58. Au contraire...it's a valid question...

...and it's not the least bit anti-semitic to ask.


I'll bet that a lot of us here believe that we have put ourselves in a position whereby we're being led by the nose by Israel, at least in certain situations.

Are we all "anti-semitic"?


:eyes:

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

12. Yes.

:shrug:

[mopinko]

14. the military industrial complex

is in control of both countries.

[Behind the Aegis]

15. Are you really serious?

If so, I will attempt to answer your questions.

On edit: If you are indeed serious, I will also explain why your OP is boderline flamebait.

[dionysus]

18. Yeah, I am

Honest question.

The majority of public opinion in other countries is mad at Israel over this. I think we are alone really backing them right now.

Of course I think the whole thing is bad and no one deserves to die.

So the question is dead serious, why are we Isaels only solid ally? I'd like to hear what you think, because I can't figure it out.

And to ask a queestion like that and be called (not by you) a klansman or freeper for asking an honest question, makes you regret ever asking.

[Behind the Aegis]

33. OK...here it is...

I am pasting your OP so that I can go through it piece by piece, so do not take it as an insult....

Your OP:
Is Israel a puppet of the US or are we a puppet of Israel?
Edited on Mon Jul-31-06 09:39 PM by dionysus
I don't say this in jest...

We're pretty much the only country on the planet rah-rah-ing this madness.

Does that mean the rest of the world is evil and anti-semitic?

What are they holding over us that we approve of this shit?

First, let me explain why some may see this as flamebait, and why it may even be locked. The idea that Jewish people control the halls of the US government is rooted in anti-Semitism. When you started out asking about Israel, but then inserted "anti-Semitism," that is where the post started to get "fuzzy," as it were. The problem with Israel is it is very complex, like most nations. If you want me to expand on this point, I will be happy to do so.

Second, Israel doesn't have the capability to "control" the US. And while the US does have that ability (to control Israel), it really doesn't. Recent events have shown that both nations are independent. However, the US does exert a little more power because of economic and military funding. So, in that sense, one might be able to conclude "the US controls Israel," but I don't think that is the case.

Third, there is a difference between "rah-rahing" the current conflict and not being fully behind it or saying Israel over-reacted. So, just because other nations don't support the current conflict or the level, it doesn't mean the criticisms are based in anti-Semitism, or that those countries "hate Israel because it is a Jewish nation."

Fourth, we are not the only allies, but we tend to be the loudest and the most consistent. Throughout her existence, many countries support for Israel has wanned and waxed. Israel, until recently, was one of the only democracies in a very sensitive and volatile region of great interest to the US. It is those interests that keep Israel as an ally, for the most part.

Does that answer your questions? If not, let me know.

[dionysus]

40. that's fine

i just want to know why were are alone in support!
why can'y anyone give an opinion on that!!!!!

[Behind the Aegis]

43. We are not.

Other countries have given limited support. What the issue is the "amount" of firepower Israel used in response. Also, take a look at our administration. They are war-mongers, so I don't know that it is support as much as it they feel they are helping rid the world of terrorists. If Iran went after it's radical section, you'd see the same support for them from this administration. It is all about strategy, and location.

[Charlie Brown]

16. the reason the Administration is so protective of Israel

is because of all the pre-millenial "Christian" fruit loops in this country who believe Jesus will be coming back once the Temple is rebuilt in Jerusalem, thereby finally sending all the Jews and other non-believers to hell.

The only "puppets" in this game are the deluded souls who actaully believe that nonsense.

[Junkdrawer]

20. Israel and The United States of Oil are fellow travelers...for now...

Both want regime change in Syria/Iran.

But, once borders are redrawn and Big Oil wants the chaos to end so that the drilling and pumping can start, watch how fast Big Oil drops Israel.

[Hardrada]

26. I think this is your answer, Dionysus.

Look for the $$$$$ not the ideology, proud words etc. I think we are all being played like chumps here by global corporate capitalism which is essentially a-theistic.

[dionysus]

29. i agree, i was trying to bring this to attention with my question

but got called a klansman person for that. go figure

[Hardrada]

66. I noticed. We all have to watch out for the Junior AIPAC

Thought Police!

[Palladin]

21. Amongst the elites who have seized power in both countries,

a mutual enflamed hubris. Or, to use terminology more appropriate, especially for Christian Zionists, a glorying in a false sense of Chosen-ness.
Mass delusion with an apocalyptic face.

[rucky]

23. They scratch each other's backs. n/t

[htuttle]

24. They're ultimately both puppets of GRUNCH.

[BuyingThyme]

25. If you really want to know...

the answers are always obvious:

There's a tiny faction of Christian cultists and a tiny faction of Jewish cultists. But both factions live in the mainstream.

Both groups are looking forward to Rapture, Armageddon, or whatever you'd like to call it. And they're both trying their damnedest to make it happen as soon as possible.

As the End Times approach (in their minds), the faction of Jewish cultists will become (convert to) Christian cultists, while the rest of the Earth's Jews will be killed (sacrificed) by the Christian god. Some have already converted.

Right up to the End, the common Jews will be convinced that the Rapture Jews are working to protect them, but they're actually setting them up. It's happened before.

Now you know.

[dionysus]

28. I know that!

But why is is limited to just us? Surely there are fundies abroad everywhere.

[BuyingThyme]

30. The United States has the power.

And Israel has Israel.

[Behind the Aegis]

36. Honestly...

...it has very little to do with religion. It is not about fundamentalism of any stripe.

[dionysus]

46. that's thew type of posts i expected to see.

On the TV is is a religious war, and i'm sure that's a large factor, but the greedy defense industry is probably in on it too

[BuyingThyme]

56. Without religion,

there's peace.

[AlienGirl]

27. No, both are controlled by the IJC!

http://www.internationaljewishconspiracy.com/

[dionysus]

32. that's not funny at all.

[AlienGirl]

35. It was proportionate in its seriousness.

[dionysus]

44. no, it was not.

I asked a question asking for an honest response whe people are being total assholes flaming people. and you, a mod, acts the same.

[everythingsxen]

64. I don't think she flamed you...

and for what it's worth, her answer is about as serious as any other to a question as loaded as the one you asked.

When the choices are 1) Israel controls the US as a puppet or 2) the US controls Israel as a puppet there is no serious answer that can be given.

[MercutioATC]

59. FWIW, I agree.

I didn't see anything innapropriate about your post...

[God Almighty]

31. A lot of Bush appointees are Israeli nationals.

We supply them with weapons and they help support our reason for conducting invasions. The Israeli PM is acting just like Bush. It's as if both countries are matching their imperialistic efforts.

[Behind the Aegis]

34. "A lot of Bush appointees are Israeli nationals."

Can you produce a list?

[dionysus]

37. Aegis, I was serious about post 18, and would like your view.

[Behind the Aegis]

38. I replied...up there.

:)

[dionysus]

42. i know, iwas typing and didn't see it ;)

i have no quarrel with you, i am trying to make sense out of all of it, but cannot

[Ron Green]

45. Conversely, many Israelis seem to be Americans.

I don't know about the "Bush appointees" business, but I've noticed that many Israeli citizens interviewed on radio or television are speaking American English, with accents from the Midwest, the Eastern Seabord, etc.

[Behind the Aegis]

48. Many Israelis speak English.

Also, a good number have family or friends in the States. There has also been an increase of US citizens moving to Israel to become Israeli citizens.

[Ron Green]

50. Exacly. I don't know of another foreign country in which this is the case.

The number of expatriates would seem to give evidence bearing on the answer to the OP's question.

[MadAsHellNewYorker]

51. They learn English in schools from a young age

if you go there, almost anyone can speak to you in English cause they learn in school

[Ron Green]

55. I'm not talking about people who can speak English. I'm talking about

people who learned English in the United States. I can hear the difference, and can tell Baltimore English from that of Wisconsin.

Hell, almost anyone in many countries can speak to you in English. I'm talking about people born in America.

[MadAsHellNewYorker]

57. Some of my Israeli friends have really funny accents

Theres one whose mom was a former brooklynite and speaks english like hes a guido

I have a few friends who spent summers at jewish camps in america. One was in Texas and speaks English with a Texan drall...lots of y'alls

Others visit friends and family and pick up accents from them. Its really based on their person experience. Some even come to university here and pick up accents that way too.

[Behind the Aegis]

63. Israel is ranked number 5.

More Americans go to Mexico, Canada, the UK, and Germany before Israel. So, I really don't see how this is indicative of anything.

[Vidar]

47. We use each other. Liefe is not always black & white.

[leftofthedial]

53. neither. both are puppets of GAWDJEEZIS.

and GAWDJEEZIS loves us all, except for goddamned faggots and ragheads and people who end up between a soldier in this righteous war and the raghead or faggot he is shooting at.

We don't approve. Or dissaprove. We buy things and behave ourselves.

[dionysus]

60. thanx for the clever insight

[MadAsHellNewYorker]

54. Israel is one of America's "Interests"

America is like an older brother to Israel, I think any influence on policy is from America to Israel, and not vice-versa

[RagAss]

61. neither. We are politically impotent thanks to the shrub and Iraq.

If Iraq was a success, there's a case to be made that Israel may not have made this move. They see the instability there for years to come and Bush leaving office in 2009. My opinion is that this reality was worked into their calculation.

[shadowknows69]

62. This marriage has been going on so long

I doubt either party even knows anymore.

[Clarkie1]

65. Neither. We're friends. nt

[Hippo_Tron]

67. Locking

Whether this thread was started with good intentions or not, it is flamebait.