In Praise of the South

[Dirty Hippie]

As a big ole' liberal lesbian, sometimes I find the place of my birth a bit confining and I daydream about moving to a more tolerant place. But then I start thinking about what I would miss. So I came up with this list of what I love about the place of my birth.

1) My neighbors are well, neighborly.

2) Other drivers will stop to let you into traffic. I've seen drivers in three lanes stop to let another driver cross.

3) Magnolias, dogwood trees, and those little wild violets that pop up early in the spring.

4) Corn bread and collard greens.

5) Sweet iced tea. (Even the national restaurant chains have learned to serve it!)

6) When out and about town it is common to exchange greetings and even have full conversations with total strangers.

7) Roadside stands (often nothing more that the tailgate of a truck) that sell cane syrup and mayhaw jelly.

8) Nobody looks at you funny when you say "I reckon" or "I'm fixin' to...".

9) Space. Woods. Wildlife.

10) Beautiful women who call you "honey" or "sweetie".


Just wanted to remind my fellow DUers that we southerners are not just a bunch of knuckle-dragging cretins.

Other southerners, please feel free to add to the list.


On Edit: Not really looking for a debate here, believe me I know the south is not perfect.

[Debau2005]

1. 11. My mama's gumbo

12. The soft southern drawl of my grandmother's voice

13. Men that open the door, or women that open the door for you when your hands are full

[FreedomAngel82]

54. Oh yes!

And I love bbq and all the other southern food. My mom makes the best home-made chili. Mmm. I also love going to a good baseball game here in town (the town team) and than watching the Braves.

[BushOut06]

2. I'll never forget driving into Georgia last year

I remember driving to Atlanta to escape one of our many hurricanes last year. What's the first thing I see when I cross the border? This big-ass Confederate flag, waving in the wind on this humonguous pole.

Yep, sure would be a shame to leave that behind ;)

[Debau2005]

6. Not having a Bush as our governor!

;-)

[donheld]

12. You do have it sooooooo much better now don't you

:eyes:

[Debau2005]

46. Nope...We have an idiot of our own.

But at least his last name is not Bush! We call ours "Chicken Man!" If you are from here, you know Perdue is a brand of chicken. Hopefully we will be able to get us a proper Southern Democrat in November!!

[ddeclue]

52. Ahem... have you been to Florida lately...

We unfortunately have a Bush for our Governor...

:puke:

Vote Rod Smith for Governor of Florida 2006!

Doug De Clue
Orlando, FL

[BushOut06]

89. LOL - I live in Florida

I know exactly what a disaster Jeb has been for our state! Failing schools, horrible roads, runaway growth, you name it.

[FreedomAngel82]

56. Yep!

I got a democrat for mine and he's not dlc. Nothing wrong with members of the dlc in general but the group as a whole eh. :\

[Nevernose]

50. Yeah, you;d never see one on Ohio or California (n/t)

n/t

[bleedingheart]

100. there are twits here in Pennsylvania who fly that flag as well.

[Gemini Cat]

124. You can see that in Indiana, Ohio, NY, NJ, as well.

You can even see it in Europe!

You can see a Confederate flag anywhere, not just the south. Stupidity and racism knows no boundries. Trust me it's world wide.

[DrGonzoLives]

131. Wisconsin

Has a memorial to the Confederacy.

Figure that out.

[Orsino]

138. I'll see your Confederate flag, and raise you...

...a Confederate flag bumper sticker and a "United We Stand" bumper sticker--on the same damned bumper!

I've seen this at least a half-dozen times, and only (so far) in Georgia.

[patrice]

3. Grits!!!

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm . . . . I want some now!

[Debau2005]

7. With cheese and butter...

For Brunch, don't forget the shrimp on top!

[patrice]

20. Grits are comfort food.

I'm trying to cut back after all of the holiday food I've consumed in the last month, but . . .

Grits and cream gravy with chopped steak!
Grits and pork chops!
Grits and fried catfish!
Grits with a little Emeril's seasoning sprinkled on top!
Grits and butter and sorghum!!!
Grits and sausage spoon-bread!
Grits and eggs fried over-easy (white done, but runny yoke to mix with the grits and butter) and thick bacon!
Grits with cinnamon sugar and cream!

[K8-EEE]

49. X-Tremely Clueless Question From L.A.

(ducking)

Seriously -- what are grits? Are they corn something or other? Never had the pleasure...

[ddeclue]

55. Watch "My Cousin Vinny".....

Doug D.
Orlando, FL

[FreedomAngel82]

60. I love that movie!

One of my all time favorite movies! I have it on video and watch it often. Another good movie is "Sweet Home Alabama." That's a good one. There is a scene where Reese Witherspoon's character says how you should need a passport to get into the south because it's so different from the north (her character grows up in the south and later moves to the north because of a career in fashion).

[butterfly77]

200. They are delicious!

My favorite part of my cousin vinnie is the part in court where he describes the two youtes and the judge says " what did you call them " and he is trying to say the two youths.

[mykpart]

58. It's a cereal made from hominy.

It looks like cream of wheat, similar in taste to polenta, but with more texture. You can buy instant grits in the same aisle as instant oatmeal.

[K8-EEE]

83. Hominy! OK I know that, that's in Mexican stuff.

I hate to tell you guys but ANYTHING is good with butter on it! That's the "escargot" argument, LOl...also, anything you had when you were a kid for breakfast, you will love as an adult.

I was a granola-and-yogurt raised kid here in CA, and that's still my fave breakfast!

[malaise]

90. It tastes

awful. Bahamians eat it non-stop. Quite disgusting.

[Lochloosa]

102. INSTANT GRITS!

BLASPHEMY!

[tenshi816]

145. My mother once accused me

of child abuse for feeding my kids instant grits. She wouldn't even use the kind that cooked in 5 minutes - for her it had to be the old-fashioned variety that takes about a half hour to cook.

I wish Mom had been as discerning in her taste in husbands as she was about grits.

[mykpart]

208. My grandmother used to save the leftover grits and let them get dry,

then cut them into strips and fry them. I never cared much for that.

[eppur_se_muova]

68. They are "gritted" (grated) corn.

Ears of corn are allowed to partially dry until fairly hard (not popcorn hard), then grated to a very coarse meal. I've never seen anyone make grits, only seen store-bought. You boil it in water to make breakfast grits, about the consistency of mashed potatoes. Great with butter; some folks like gravy. Almost never eaten past breakfast -- I think there's a law about that.

Friends of ours once told us they saw grits on the dessert menu in a New Yawk restaurant. Had to chuckle over that one.

[Jamastiene]

72. When you squeeze a kernel of corn and

that little yellow thing pops out, I think it comes from that. I personally can't eat grits without getting them stuck in my teeth and throat (toothpicks and/or floss doesn't get the out either), but the taste is pretty decent when you add margarine/butter and/or cheese. Also sugar and grape jelly are good with them.

[Clark2008]

105. They're made from hominey.

I'm Southern, but I'm not a big fan of Southern food - most of it's too greasy for my sensitive tummy. :)

[TNDemo]

142. I'm with you. I also think grits are more of a deep south thing.

I have tasted them once in my life and that was enough. I think you can find them on menus at places like Cracker Barrel but I don't believe I have ever been in a home where they were served. I'm not much on the deep frying thing either, except for okra. Want my okra fried!

[Jamastiene]

213. We are opposites then. What is hominy?

I love southern food. I like chilli on my hot dogs and my hamburgers. Hold the relish/pickles. Greasy is good though to keep our fur shiny and healthy. :sarcasm: In that movie I will fight no more forever, Jimmy Stewart finished eating some chicken and wiped the grease on a patch of dry skin from what I recall. I've been swearing by it ever since. Hmmm, maybe THAT is why animals like me so much. I'm tasty. :P

[Bridget Burke]

111. Difference between grits & polenta? About $10.00 a plate!

Actually, there's a bit more to it...

At grits.com, we learned the difference between corn grits, which include the hull and the germ of the grain, and "true" hominy grits. To make hominy, you start with field corn. These traditional grits are produced by soaking dried corn kernels in a solution of baking soda, lime, or wood ash ("lye water") for a day or two. The kernel's shell pops off, and the kernel swells to twice its size. Kernels are rinsed more than once, then dried, and finally ground into grits. The grind can be coarse, medium, or fine.

This same process is used to make masa harina, the key ingredient in corn tortillas. The alkaline soaking treatment of corn also enhances its nutritional value, making it an important staple in the diets of many cultures. It's this alkaline treatment that makes grits different from polenta. Due to the altered chemistry of the corn, grits and tortillas both prevent pellagra, a niacin deficiency disease.

http://ask.yahoo.com/20021007.html

Grits are cooked into a mush that's fairly tasteless but works well with others. You can add cheese, garlic, hot sauce, etc. Or serve them plain with runny eggs & bacon. Or put some shrimp on top...

[William Bloode]

205. Yep, it's corn.

Corn that has been leached in an ammonia type solution, then ground into the actual "grits" which are in fact "gritty" when dry. If not ground the leeched white corn is known as hominy. It is an old Native American food.

[FreedomAngel82]

59. They're good

I love them with some eggs, bacon and french toast. Mmm. Yummy. My grandmother on my dad's side makes a great breakfast. I remember in the film "My Cousin Vinny" when the character Vinny's girlfriend takes a picture of him eating grits. LOL. I always crack up at that.

[davidinalameda]

167. I always eat mine with butter and sugar

I know-that's considered high heresy in some places

but that's what I like

[DarkTirade]

181. That's just the thing about grits though

they have no real taste of their own, so you add whatever the hell you want to make them taste however you want. :)

[eppur_se_muova]

234. I just realized -- they're like tofu that way! "Dixie tofu"! nt

[Jamastiene]

214. I like them that way too, although my teeth can't really handle them too

often. Also with grape or strawberry jelly is good too.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

4. Warmth in winter

but I will say that the friendliness you talk of can also be found in small towns in Illinois-I lived there for much of my life. I think that it can also be found in other areas where there are small towns-at least I noticed it when I visited New Jersey and Connecticut earlier this year.

I find that letting traffic go is also something one finds in rural areas-don't try cutting across traffic on Central Expressway in Dallas, for example!

[Jamastiene]

74. The friendliness can also be found in upstate New York, from my

experience. And the hospitality I experienced there was genuine as well.

[DarkTirade]

182. And over in VT too.

[Ksec]

5. Bisquits and gravy

Thats the thing that I fondly remember about a trip through the South. Gad I love those for breakfast..

The people were freindly also. You feel welcome .

[Patiod]

110. That's one of my favorite things about trips down south!

We stayed at a Wyoming dude ranch where the owners were from Baton Rouge. Two mornings they served biscuits and sausage gravy, and it was the best gravy I ever had.

[BOSSHOG]

8. You Dirty Hippie

I am extremely comfortable living in South Mississippi.

- Snow once every 40 years - Yeah
- And more Collard Greens with vinegar and hot peppers (imagine homer drueling)
- Farm raised Catfish
- Redbuds and Japanese Magnolias
- Mardi Gras Parades from New Orleans to Mobile
- Wear short pants year round (almost)
- Fried Okra
- Fried Turkey in Peanut Oil (Erl)
- The sweet scent of Sweet Olive wafting towards the south patio
- Alligators and Moss Covered Oaks
- Pine Trees along every interstate
- Grits
- Acre lots
- The French Quarter (often attempted, never duplicated, never will be)
- Did I mention collard greens???

70 degrees and sunny this afternoon. Probably have to pull the covers up a little tonight.

Thanks Dirty Hippie for allowing me to stroll !

[sui generis]

19. mmmm greens

pot liquor!

I get one bunch of collards, one bunch of poke or kale, two bunches of sharp mustards and one bunch of turnips. About a shopping cart or small trunk's worth.

Render you down some hog jowl or fatback, rip the spines out of your collards and loosely chop the rest. Turn the collards into into the sizzling grease with a bit of water here and there, and add the rest of the greens a bit at a time just as soon as everything cooks down enough in the pot to give you room to add more and simmer cook for a total of about 1.5 - 2 hours.

Add some red cherry pepper plus the vinegar from the jar, a dash of cayenne or tabasco. Keep touching up the hot seasonings to get it just right: zing but no sting - they mellow a bit as they cook.

If you're muslim or can't find a dead pig to fry down for saltpork or fatback or hogjowl you can use fancy chicken stock and it'll be okay too. Bacon will work in a pinch if you can't find saltpork or hogjowl.

[BOSSHOG]

39. Are you trying to hurt me??

What an incredible post. Borderline pornographic. I'm stimulated. Collards and turnips and red cherry peppers?!? God you are incredibly evil - thanks!!!

[eppur_se_muova]

71. Dear Gawd in Heaven...try "Sho' Nuff" Pornographic.

And here I was just thinkin' plain ol' turnip greens.

[K8-EEE]

84. HOG JOWL?

Egads....I think you have to like this idea as a very young person to not go EEEEEWWWW!!!!

[FreedomAngel82]

61. It's 70 degrees there now?

Wow. Here right now at 1:27am est it's 49º. That's pretty warm right now. Lately it's been pretty chilly.

[Bridget Burke]

113. Galveston has a Mardi Gras, too.

Mardi Gras! Galveston 2006 will be a traditional Mardi Gras with a touch of New Orleans style. Traditional Mardi Gras colors of green, gold, and purple will be displayed throughout the streets of Galveston. Although there isn't an official theme this year, this Mardi Gras will "Salute the Gulf Coast" in recognition of the strength and endurance of the many people who live in the area.

Typically, the Mardi Gras season starts on January 6th with King's Day. But that's just the beginning. On both weekends of Mardi Gras! Galveston there will be non-stop live entertainment. More than 25 bands will perform on 3 stages in the heart of Historic Downtown. Headliners include Dr. John, a New Orleans jazz icon, Roger Creager, and Blues Traveler, just to name a few.

www.mardigrasgalveston.com/

It's an old tradition revived in recent years. Of course, it's not New Orleans. But we've got pretty good seafood here, too. And--while many NOLA musicians hope to return home, others will be staying in Texas. As Louisiana musicians have been doing for many years.

Today's predicted high is 73 degrees. At the bottom of the weather page: "Driving on Ice."

[mike_c]

9. hey, this georgia boy finds most of those things in NorCal, only more so..

You usually have to ask for sweet tea, however. And there aren't any magnolias in the woods, but there are WAY more woods!

[BOSSHOG]

10. You may have way more woods in NOCAL

because you have way less Hurricanes. Katrina did a helluva job of providing us with lots more sunshine and it only took her a few hours.

[Dirty Hippie]

11. I have to admit

My daughter lived in Humbolt(sp?) county for a short time and found it to be lovely. It's one of the places I fantasize about moving to.

[LuCifer]

13. Join the club!

I thought that moving here to rural ass Okeechobee country in the WOODS was gonna be HELL. And no, not the HELL with Bon Scott, Freddie Mercury, John Bonham, Jimi Hendrix, Keith Moon, Janis Jopin, Sid Vicious, et al AS THE HOUSE BAND! But gawdamn! I have YET to meet ONE muthafuka who is a (pardon the pun PLEASE!) Bush-licker! THEY HATE, I MEAN HATE, THE BASTARD HERE!!! It's odd, ya do see those shit "W04" stickers, but, they're usually on cars passing through. I guess more people than I listen to Air America outta Miami. AND I SWEAT TO UNHOLY HELLFIRE, IF 810 WEUS UP IN ORLANDO DOES *NOT* HAVE RANDI RHODES LIVE COME NEXT MONTH, I WILL BE BEYOND PISSED!!!!!!!!

Lu Cifer, reminding any gov't trolls that if you wanna spy on me, you probably will wanna black out the next 10 to 15 minutes, cuz it's going to be WACK OFF FEST 2005!!!!!! Hey, don't say I didn't warn you...

[FreedomAngel82]

62. Here in my area

I haven't seen quite as many Bush stickers as I did during the election. :shrug: I still see a handful. I also see some Kerry stickers here and there and I always love that. :) I love my town because it's not too big and not too small either. Just the right size for someone like me who gets lost easily. There's still lots to do but you can just go fifteen minutes or so and go hiking and camping and out on the lake.

[NanceGreggs]

14. I'm a native New Yorker ...

... now living in Toronto, Canada. But I did live for one glorious year in Nashville, Tennessee. I always remember it in terms of having been at a non-stop party for twelve months - Southerners REALLY know how to eat, drink and LAUGH!

PS: I still dream about the Big Breakfast at Shoney's - I may have exagerated the portions in hindsight, but I'm pretty sure it consisted of an entire side of beef, wrapped in a 15-foot-wide pancake, topped with three dozen over-easy eggs and four loaves of toast!

[TNDemo]

21. Glad we treated you well!

Not a bad place. And most of us hate country music!!

[NanceGreggs]

24. Thanks, TNDemo ...

... for all of the great times I had in your beautiful state!

PS: Was I remembering the Shoney's breakfast correctly? Because the more I think about it, the more I'm convinced there was a lot more food on the plate than I mentioned above ...

[TNDemo]

27. Are you sure it wasn't Noshville??

Their breakfasts are pretty big. I haven't eaten at Shoney's in years but there is one near me. You are probably remembering correctly. Have to have energy to pull the plow, you know!

I finally made it to Canada last summer, only the other side of the continent (Alberta). We loved it (except for the bugs) and I think I would have no problem being Canadian (ask me again in January).

[NanceGreggs]

34. Noshville!!!!

I've been living in Toronto for thirty years now -- amazing, since the first few years I was here I SWORE I wouldn't stay!

I would never forfeit my American citizenship; I'm an American and that's the way it is. But I won't be going back ever now.

My husband (native Floridian) and I talked for years about 'going home' when we retired. But the last time we discussed it, we agreed that that just wasn't going to happen -- especially due to health care reasons, as we have universal coverage here and we'd never be able to afford the health care costs in our older years, just when we'd need it the most.

I do miss my home, though -- but as long as BushCo and his ilk are running the store, I'm content to stay where I am.

[TNDemo]

37. Can you get benefits if you are not a Canadian citizen?

We have talked about those same issues.

[NanceGreggs]

47. Absolutely!

I am what's known as a 'Landed Immigrant', which means that while I am not a citizen of Canada, I reside permanently in the country. I am entitled to all of the same government benefits as a citizen, with the exception of being able to vote in federal elections.

A friend of mine moved up here years ago, and was waiting for his 'Landed Immigrant' status to be approved. He had a major health episode and required surgery and a lengthy hospital stay -- so the Canadian government immediately made his health coverage 'retroactive' to the time he entered the country, and covered every cent of it on the spot.

[FreedomAngel82]

67. Oh wow!

It must be nice to have a government that cares about you like that! Wow. Nice. If you do decide to move back to America can you still have residence in Canada and go back and forth?

[NanceGreggs]

129. Yes!

There is a time limit, in terms of how often you come back to Canada --I think it's once every six months. If I moved back to the States and visited Canada for 24 hours once every six months, I could retain my 'Landed Immigrant' status indefinitely.

Yes, it is nice to have a government 'for the people'. There are huge social 'safety nets' here for the poor, the out-of-work, for students in university, etc. There are also many, many subsidized apartment units all over the city, where rent is based on income and the gov't pays the rest. This is especially true for seniors who are retired - I know a few seniors, living on Social Security, who pay less than $300 per month in rent for very nice apartments.

I also have a friend who is HIV-positive, and was literally brought back from the brink of death through the 'medicine cocktail' method, which is extremely expensive. He was an actor, often without work, so his annual income was very tight. He went through a gov't program which now covers the cost of his ongoing medication.

Toronto is a beautiful city, a mix of old-world buildings and new glass sky-scrapers. It has a very European feel, especially in the summer, when all of the cafes and restaurants open their street-side patios. It is the most culturally diverse city in the world right now and, as a result, we have a Chinatown, a Greektown, etc. where you can buy any kind of food or product from anywhere in the world.

It is also a gay-friendly city; we have many gay couples living here in the neighbourhood, and no one bats an eye. Neighbourhood get-togethers always include a mix of hetero and gay couples. And the marijuana laws are very lax; the city actually recognizes that their police force has better things to do than track down a 'suspect' who might be holding a joint or two.

As for safety, I can only tell you that I live in a house right downtown, and I still leave my doors unlocked when I go shopping in the neighbourhood. My house is a block away from the subway, and I have often come home on the subway after midnight, alone, and have never given it a second thought.

So what are you waiting for? Come on up!

[FreedomAngel82]

65. We went to Alberta too a few summers ago!

That was a nice little town we went to. I enjoyed it and we saw a mountain goat walking down the parking lot of where we went for tourism! It was pretty neat. :) Too bad it was raining most of the day.

[FreedomAngel82]

64. The thing with Nashville

is there's lots of music there not just country. I like country but it depends on who it is. My dad is originially from Detriot but he loves country music. Mostly traditional stuff. I was brought up on Willie Nelson and Alison Krauss (his two favorite people and now two of my favorites), Alan Jackson, Randy Travis and Elvis Presley. My Mom got me into Elvis (she even has a picture of him from when she saw him at a concert once) and one of his records was the first cd I ever bought. ;)

[LuCifer]

190. Aw yeah!!!

See! We break 'em off somethin' PROPER down here y'all!!!!!!!!!!!

Wanna party?! Come on DOWN!!!!!

Lu

[NewWaveChick1981]

15. Born and raised in Atlanta and live in NC now

Father from PA, mother from SC. I've got both southern and northern roots. At least the south has four seasons a year instead of winter and then a couple of weeks of summer. :)

I like living in suburban areas as well as urban areas. I never have liked living in small towns or in rural areas, but my sister married a dairy farmer and now lives 20 miles from the nearest grocery store. That's too far for me, but she loves the peace and quiet.

[FreedomAngel82]

69. I'm a native orginially of NC

And moved here to Tennessee in 1987 when my dad got a job offer with this nuclear plant not far away. Now he works for TVA and we live closer to family so we can see them more. :D

[sui generis]

16. oh yeah

barbeque ribs and brisket and fatback collard and mustard greens
boot scootin' with your sweetie
80 degrees today in Dallas, December 27
Azaleas, calladiums, and Hippy Hollow in Austin
Southern boys (men)
space - you can have a decent sized house and yard if you want
Neighbors with names like Jasmine, Opal, Juanita, and Muriel, Ruby, Minnie and Rose.
Pecan Pie made with pecans from my own yard
waist high bluebonnetts and indian paintbrush in the spring
Southern gents (real ones, not fake ones from Connecticut)
Austin
Texas dirndl and lederhose wearing bavarians (think Baghdad Cafe)
skinny dipping in a warm tiki torch pool at midnight in August with Other Mr. Sui
sprawling pier and beam creaky floor houses
hummingbirds and brown bats and raccoons and possums
edited to add: Jazz Fest in New Orleans!!!! Oh please don't let that tradition die out - swaying in the gospel tent (from the heat, not from divine causes), sitting on the grass in front of Gladys Knight, Jimmy Buffet, BB King, soft shelled crabs and fried alligator.

Oh my. I just made myself homesick and I live here!

Sometimes I rub people the wrong way on DU - I think people in the south "rib" each other more often and it's affectionate. Some northern DU'ers you rib them and they take out a fatwa contract on your life and send you hate mail. Down here, even if you "scrap" with someone, it's no big thing. It don't mean you hate 'em. It's just a spat over the topic not over what kind of person you are. Up north, death warrant, don't go into the parking lot by yourself, prepare to be axe murdered. Holey Moley. Also, down here you tend to trust people until proven otherwise. I've seen exactly the opposite with some of our northern DU friends. How much life energy does that burn up.

In the south, it is horrifically rude to call someone a liar or to say "you're lying" in conversation. I see it ALL the time on DU with them dang yankees. I wonder, do people in the north just lie a lot and so you have to wonder if everyone else is lying too? The truth is interesting enough. People from the northwest seem to (in my experience) although styling themselves as "liberal" are often very authoritarian liberal. From the midwest seem to be the most easygoing, although often timid.

Droll humor - that's another one. What we sometimes think of as deadpan can positively make heads explode.

[Name removed]

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[FreedomAngel82]

70. OH yes

And you're attacking a whole part of the country because of one person. Give me a break. :eyes: Talk about being rude eh?

[Name removed]

97. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

146. Deleted message

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[sui generis]

149. what is the title of this thread again?

yeah, reading comprehension. I see you only noted what could be construed as negative and nothing about the other 18/19ths of the post. Oh and when you say "we", please do say who you mean, because 'we' the royal we don't give a flying bolus of excrement. If you have all these magical powers, then use them. Bring it.

Odd, I assumed you were straight since you've never posted in GLBT. Straight men shouldn't call other men "honey", as a rule, but I'm flattered nonetheless.

[TankLV]

185. I suggest you take the comprehension, honey.

You cleaverly make rude unjustified comments about the north and other areas, and try to say that wasn't your intention.

That's rich.

[sui generis]

193. I'm right here

"try to say that wasn't your intention" sounds like a clever way to call someone a liar. Gosh. Guess that post was about you and I didn't even know it. It certainly looks like it struck a nerve. By the way, if you click the "check spelling" button, it will pick up things like "cleaverly" and make you at least appear to be more intelligent.

Incidentally, if you have a question for me, all you have to do is ask me what my intentions are. Since I have gone to some pains already to clear this up, you are now beating a dead horse that never even was a horse. I don't have the energy or motivation to lie; why would you think that I would bother? If you know any goddamn thing about me you know that the last thing I care about is what anyone thinks of me, so I sure as hell wouldn't lie to make you think better of me. Telling it straight up is much more fun.

My post was mostly positive. I've already apologized to anyone I may have offended and explained myself. You however, are not included in that apology because I like toying with you, honey.

By the way - this was never about "north" and "south", and in fact I didn't even generalize. I said "some people" and "seem to". That wasn't code. Those words meant what they meant. Next you're going to call me a liar. Liar liar liar. Please, do go on. Again, you're not doing anything but making my point. I really don't see all the grandiose "we" you've been talking about by the way. It's only you, and with those social skills I can see why.

I'm going to ask you a question: what do you want from me? Seriously. What do you want from me? What do you think I owe you? What do you think your role is with me? Why am I your special project? Isn't it a little embarrassing to not have anything more important to do?

[Jamastiene]

82. Thanks for pointing that out.

If people could say nice things about the south without insulting the north, this could be a nice positive thread.

[sui generis]

98. there are perfectly wonderful things about the north

I'll be balanced here.

You guys tend to be more "liberal" socially
Southerners tend towards passive aggressive behaviors - a cultural thing


These are all gross generalizations, I apologize for picking negative ones. I wasn't writing an essay, it was just what had strayed into my mind at the moment.

Nobody who knows me here would think that I'm a northern/southern bigot. I am completely neutral voice in these opinions and apologies that I wasn't more balanced to start with. Thanks for at least being more constructive than that other person who is in permanent jackass mode. I appreciate it.

[Name removed]

95. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TankLV]

147. Hey buddy, I'm not the one with issues.

If you can't take justified criticism, then YOU are the one with the problem.

It is clear for all to see here.

And I am not the one who needs therepy here, honey!

[sui generis]

151. you're right

what you need is spell check.

[Flying Dream Blues]

191. sui generis, you always make me laugh...love it

[Name removed]

150. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

152. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sui generis]

96. dupe delete

[sui generis]

103. perfect perfect example thank you TankLV

You make my point far better than I ever could. It's a good thing there's only one of you.

[KamaAina]

173. Jazz Fest has no intention whatever of dying out.

(huge sigh of relief)

http://www.wwoz.org/news43.php

Organizers of the 2006 New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Festival intend to put on what they describe as a world-class event at the Fair Grounds beginning on its traditional weekend in April.

Unlike plans announced this week for a scaled-down Mardi Gras, Jazzfest officials say their intention is the opposite: to stage a festival that is bigger and better than ever, one that will help to reignite tourism in the Crescent City.

"The goal is, unanimously, to try and hold a major Jazzfest here," said David Oestreicher, president of Jazzfest's governing board. "One that hopefully will be a world-shaking event. . . . We think that we will be the watershed event that will jump-start the tourist economy for this part of the world."

I've got days and days of carryover vacation -- all of which must be used by the end of March. Criminetly. :P

My favorite Jazz Fest memory would have to be the time I somehow got invited to a party in the Upper Pontalba Building (the ones on your left as you stand at the Decatur St. end of jackson Square looking at the postcard view of St. Louis Cathedral). Next thing you know, I was politely but firmly being awakened and asked to leave, it was just about sunrise, and I realized I had about enough time to grab some breakfast and head on out to the Fair Grounds.

Yes, come to think of it, I believe that breakfast did include grits.

[Thirtieschild]

17. What I miss

a wave and a smile when you let someone into traffic
daffodils in February
soft Georgia rain
cornbread without sugar
barbecue
peaches fresh off the tree

[patrice]

23. Right, cornbread is NOT cake!

I've never understood that one, sugar in cornbread is positively un-natural.

I was raised in Kansas myself, but my Dad's family is from Arkansas, by way of Oklahoma, and Mom cooked, everything from scratch, to please him.

Oh yeah, add ham and beans to our list.

[Lochloosa]

119. Cornbread made with LARD

not any of those wimpy "conola" oils...

Here is a recipe for the foolhardy:



CORN BREAD


Ingredients:

one and one-half pints corn meal

one-half pint flour

one teaspoonful salt

two heaping teaspoons baking powder

one tablespoonful lard

one and one-fourth pints milk

two eggs



Sift together corn meal, flour,salt, and baking powder; rub in lard cold; add the egg; mix to a moderately stiff batter.
Bake in rather hot oven thirty minutes.

[sui generis]

122. cast iron cornbread pans

or a warm cast iron skillet also add authenticity.

You can get manteca lard here (in the Crisco aisle, sometimes in the "ethnic" (Mexican food) section of the grocery store.

A little lard every once in a long while won't hurt you - for some recipes there is no comparison, but in sweets and cookies it does tend to make it a bit heavy.

I remember when my American grandmother made cookies (with lard), she just made a dozen or at most two dozen and everyone got ONE. Tasty but heavy as lead. Two would kill ya.

[Lochloosa]

123. I have two cast iron skillets. They were my Grandmothers

there is nothing like cooking in them.

[Individualist]

143. Try substituting bacon grease for lard

and use one part milk, one part buttermilk.

[DarkTirade]

184. I had a roommate who grew up in Georgia

she always said, "If it ain't Jiffy, it ain't cone-bread". So I guess her mom wasn't much for making her own from scratch when she was a kid. :)

[eppur_se_muova]

75. cornbread with(out) sugar -- What's WITH that, anyway ?

WHERE, oh where, did these fools get the idea that cornbread is some kind of sweet snack? It's supposed to be hardy, robust, filling -- flavor with butter, onion, or buttermilk all you like -- but SUGAR ????

My favorite, part southwest part southern -- cornbread with jalapenos!

[bleedingheart]

101. oh I love cornbread with sugar....

sorry but I do....

[Greyhound]

18. Oh me too. Good Bar-B-Que

(not that ketchup ridden crap they eat in Texas).
People that know what collard greens are supposed to taste like.
Most folks raised with at least an understanding of what polite is.
Southern Belles
Four mild seasons (I know it's hot in summer, but come out here for a few months and then get back to me)
Black and White people living as neighbors without all undercurrent (my experience anyway).
Green everything/everywhere.
Southern food
Real moonshine
Alec's BBQ
Roadside BBQ stands
Needing help and finding it
Real parties (the hosts invite and prepare for their guests, providing food drink and activities)
Guests that show up for a party when they said they would.
Did I mention the food?
Speed traps being illegal.
Peidmont Park
Kennesaw Mountain
Little 5-points
Brunswick Stew
Gumbo
(I just couldn't aquire the taste for catfish)
Grits (just give 'em a chance they're really good)
MARTA
Horse farms
Cumberland

Why, oh why did I leave?

[deadmessengers]

22. Savannah

There's no place like it in the world.

[Bake]

25. Did anybody mention BARBEQUE and CORN BREAD???

Yeah, I know you did! Just wanted to second it, or third, or fourth ...

Barbeque -- the REAL THING -- a smoked pork shoulder with the meat pulled (not sliced!!). And some hot sauce that opens up your sinuses for the next week!

And friendly, helpful people!

Gotta tell a story: I moved to Mis'sippi 2 1/2 years ago. The first summer I was here, I had to go to court in Natchez, down in the southwest corner of the state. I was in a suit. And it was hotter than three weeks in hell. I left the courthouse, got about five miles out of town, and blew a water hose. My vehicle was inoperative. Within fifteen minutes, a total stranger stopped to help me (if it matters, I'm a white guy in a suit and this godsend was a black man who worked for MDOT). He diagnosed my problem immediately but didn't have the tools to fix it. He got on his radio and called a buddy of his who was nearby. With a pocketknife and a screwdriver, and several jugs of distilled water, they got me fixed and back on the road.

Here's the kicker: I was so grateful that they stopped and helped me out in the sweltering heat, I offered each of them cash for helping me. You know what's coming: they wouldn't take it. They just smiled and said, "you just help somebody out the next time."

AND THAT'S WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE SOUTH.

Bake

[TallahasseeGrannie]

26. Racial diversity

and black folks. Up north I knew one black family. Down here half my colleagues, students and bosses are
African American and they have taught me so much about how to enjoy life.

[Dirty Hippie]

28. Thank You Tallahassee Grannie!

I actually live just outside of Tallahassee.

Oh one more thing, thank goodness for Ion Sancho!

[TallahasseeGrannie]

32. Heck yeah on Ion Sancho

he ROCKS!

Big ole liberal lesbian, huh?

I probably know you!

[Dirty Hippie]

35. You probably do. n/t

[JacquesMolay]

57. Boiled peanuts, warm weather, beautiful girls ...

... though, to be honest, there are still a bunch of dumbass redneck republicans down here.

[jackster]

156. FINALLY SOMEONE SAYS BOILED PEANUTS!

Having been raised on the Gulf Coast of the Big Bend of FLA - close to the Redneck Riveria in probably one of the top 5 redneck counties in FLA - (and having a So GA peanut farmer for a great-grandfather) and now living in the 'burbs of Boston, I can honestly say that the thing I miss most is boiled peanuts.

When I get to hankering for them so much I can taste them in my sleep, I order them from 1 800 boil nut (Lee Bros). While expensive, "hit shore dew hit th' spot!"

Collard or Turnip greens with cornbread and pot "likker" come in a close second. But then there's country fried steak, fried okra, and does anyone know about swamp cabbage??????

[Rockholm]

202. I get my Boiled Peanuts from Lee Bros. too!

They are awesome! So are the nuts.

[VaYallaDawg]

226. I was wondering when boiled peanuts would show up!!

Love those things, I grew up in Tallahassee and they used to be sold on the street corners in the summertime there in tiny little brown bags, 5 cents each!

Other big thing I love about the south - the storytelling, family myths, etc. They probably have them in other parts of the country, but ours always include a few crazy aunts, some wacky interpretations of the Bible, etc. Some of them are hilarious.

[socalover]

85. Are you referring to the black people working at fast food restaurants etc

I just escaped Georgia, never to return, I was fooled thinking it was the new South, nothing has changed, yeah, sing or play sports and you are a hero, try being a scientist or any of those positions that society considers 'special' in the South and see how far you go. Man, I hate that confederate flag waving south, phucque em, sorry but I just escaped some serious racism down there, it's a different mindset, nothing is blatant though , very suttle but really dehumanizing sh!t for blacks and other minorities!

[TallahasseeGrannie]

91. First let me say that I am not black, therefore the nuance

is not apparent to me.

No, I'm not talking about burger flippers. My next door neighbors are black, as are the folks across the street. My boss and my teacher's aide are as well. I have many, many black colleagues. None of them sing or play sports. I have hundreds of black students and believe me, they don't see the nuance either. They are on their way! Maybe one of the differences is that we have a large black university here, Florida A and M and also scads of state jobs, not to even mention FSU. I can honestly think of exactly one Confederate flag I have ever seen. There is one on a flagpole of a mobile home down the road.

I'm not foolish enough to think everything is hunky dory as far as race relations, but my friends and I talk..a lot.. about culture and race. I come from a rather repressive British background where emotions were frowned upon. I am learning. As far as being a "scientist" well, I work at the FSU Mag Lab (largest magnets in the world) with my kids sometimes and there are sure plenty of black scientists. And in my field, a black applicant is courted and coddled because we really need them. Same at the Universities and same at the State. And yet there is also a tight-knit black community as well with a lot of history shared.


Do the oldtimer racists still exist? Sure, but they are dying out and they have no power. They hold no political power. Our Mayor is black. Half the City and County Commissions are black.

But this area is suburban/urban. Where there are more problems..not necessarily racism per se, but abject poverty, is in some of the small towns nearby. High infant mortality, etc. And that is both black and white.

It isn't perfect. It will never be perfect. But it is one of the things I enjoy about the south.

Consider coming down here. So many opportunities at the universities. If you are black here and have even two years of college you will be snapped up fast and you can finish school on the state's nickel.

[Thtwudbeme]

94. My husband's boss is African American

and a woman; my immediate boss is an African American woman....half the students in my classes at the University are African American...

Guess I am missing the "burger flippers" too, eh.

I think what I like about racial diversity in the South is that it is talked about, and people work to improve relations every year. I see it get better every single year....as opposed to other parts of the US where it exists, but people deny the hell out of their racism...and it's getting worse.

Excellent response to the poster---

Stephanie

[socalover]

132. Good for him

Maybe my place of employment (which I would not name) was one of the few, I am not making this up.

It's not just that about the south, it's also when lining up to vote last year (70% of my county went Repug) that the idiot (maybe because a minority was behind him) started shouting, "I never met one asshole who voted for Clinton", I was about to introduce myself but I decided to ignore him.

It's about these people who claim to be so close to God, closer than the whole country but yet prayed for the war in Iraq more than any other region, it's just too much sh!t to name! Not only confederate flag but Bush bumper stickers.

On a return flight from California, I heard this one suburban Atlanta complaining about "too many Asians in California"
and that he just doesn't get it, sorry, I can't stand that shit!

And they can keep their nasty grits, I will never return!

In the end, I think if you are white and you have a decent job, you can lead a very fulfilled life down there and ignore the prejudice, it was just too much for me.

[Thtwudbeme]

144. What a great ancedotal story! Wanna hear mine?

Purely personal here:

I moved to Portland, Oregon...fully expecting to be bowled over by the liberalness of it all.

Wanna know what I saw? White people EVERYWHERE. Some Mexicans pumping gas and bussing tables, some asians, some Eastern Europeans...and that was IT. I bet I met two African Americans the entire time I was there. Look up the demographics...and check out their laws from the 1800's about even having blacks in that state. Furthermore, really entertain yourself and look at the real estate laws that were LEGAL until fairly recently.

Man, I couldn't wait to get back home to good old diverse NC.

[socalover]

210. Never been to Oregon, can't comment....

BTW, blacks are not the only minority in America, because you only saw two blacks in Oregon means nothing about the 'diversity of NC'.

Only been to NC to visit Cherokee and Charlotte for a Sting concert, seems like a beautiful state I hope it's not the same BS as Georgia!

[William Bloode]

207. Someone from Atlanta complaining of asians would be pretty stupid.

Seeing how the South is loaded with asians. Especially large cities like Atlanta, and Charlotte. We are very diverse down here. Lots of blacks, asians, hispanics, and whites.We have lots of them all.

[socalover]

211. Give me a break!!!

Get out of Gwinette county and that so called China town in northeast Atlanta and Asians no longer exist in Atlanta, so since according to you "We have lots of them all", does that mean Atlanta and the south is diverse? Give me a break, many blacks in Atlanta and New Orleans still have this problem with Massa, they have not been able to overcome it, afraid to speak out, I have first hand experience with it.

[William Bloode]

223. Again what South have you been to?

Blacks happen to be very outspoken (like you could shut them up lol). I have lived here my whole life and my 1st hand experience is far more wide ranging than yours i am sure. Being a minority myself i also have a good perspective on the issue.

Massa's been dead a long time down here, sorry to bust your bubble. I find it demeaning to my black friends that you would characterize them as "afraid to speak like scared little children. Black folks who live down here have lots of strength, due to the adversity they once faced. Made them tough and very outspoken.

[socalover]

227. Didn't mean to offend, just reporting my experience

"Outspoken", "have lots of strength, due to the adversity they once faced", hell yeah we have a lot of strength but we have been sleeping since the civil rights movement. We even allowed Karl Rove and Bush to infiltrate some of the churches, especially in the South with their gay marriage agenda, I'll say we are sleeping. I am not only talking black vs white, even within the black community, schools, I have seen first hand a complacency to accept nonsense that should never be allowed, but no one is willing to stand up, so the same sh!t continues, low wages, unfair labor practices, no promotions, it goes on, but people just seem too be happy letting the situation be.

[Tomee450]

236. Very true.

I have relatives in Georgia, Alabama, Virginia and Texas. The large cities are not so bad for blacks but some of the suburbs and small towns are a different matter. In some of those areas, it's as if the civil rights era never happened. Black people are still afraid to challenge the blatant racism that still exists in some parts of the south.

[Jamastiene]

216. I don't think the issue is how many of the different minorities live here.

It's the attitudes of most white people against those minorities. I live in North Carolina and I hear racist comments even by my teachers in community college. If I have a penny for every time I hear southern whites in the area where I live complaining about other races, especially Blacks and Hispanics, I could knock Bill Gates out of the top spot for richest person in the world, if he even still holds that spot.

I guess if you only look around in the larger cities here, you may see more open minded people, but if you live in Rockingham, you see more of what the posters was talking about. Those attitudes are held by THE MAJORITY of whites in this town and this county in general.

Let's also be honest about the black churches being burned down by white supremacist arsonists in the 90's and the recent cross burnings here too. What it all boils down to is acknowledging that the problem does exist if we want to work on ending or at least beating to some degree the racism.

[socalover]

228. Thank you

Even some whites who see you as being different, you hear the comments "you are not like the rest of them"....

[Jamastiene]

238. That, to me, is a form of racism too.

You hear many of those same people start sentences with "I am not racist, but..." I see that as racism, personally. If someone has to clarify something they are about to say with that, I know something racist as hell is getting ready to come out of their mouths. What I would like to see is a nationwide group of people, starting on DU possibly, get together and hash this all out so that each region finally admits to the racism in their area and works on fighting it. If we don't come together it will stay out of the top problems list for the country as a whole. It will HAVE to start with southerners admitting the problem exists in the south. I've been up north too. Out west, I have less experience with people, except on DU. I HAVE noticed the difference. I have noticed that it exists in other areas, but in other areas, there is no name brand attached to it comparitively. The truth is that througout history, the south has cornered the market on it. There are a few in the south who want to work on it, but getting people out of their "heritage" stupors long enough to admit it and work on it, is always just like this thread. You see what it looks like. All you have to do is read. :eyes:

Too bad not many people ever mosey over to the Civil Rights issues groups and discusses as ferverently as in the main forums. IN order to ever work on this as a group, it'll have to be a thread that starts in either the Lounge or GD or GD: Politics and relentlessly stays through passion, just because that is where people are likely to see it. I would rather try to discuss the issue and work together than deny it even exists. Denial doesn't seem like the answer at all.

[William Bloode]

231. Like you don't see racism all over the U.S..

What about Nyc, or L.A., or Chicago where they put all the blacks in one small poor ass place and segregate them? What about Indiana? Sure we have some racism, sure there are such nasty things like cross burning, and church burnings. But that does not mean the vast majority or people here don't view that kind of action as repugnant, and vile. I might agree some folks in the South are more vocal, and open with their racist attitudes than other places. But in my opinion you are better off with them being so open. That way at least you know who they are.

Being Native American i have experienced the worst racism in Wis. I went there with my sis and brother in law to visit his relatives. I was appalled at how these folks talked about my kind. And being due to my genetic make up i could pass for semi white( though i am often confuse for a Mexican), they did all this right in front of me. Talked of how lazy, and worthless we are etc. This was done way up north, not down south.

[Jamastiene]

237. Like segregation of blacks in poor neighborhoods is only done

outside the south? Give me a break. We have the black neighorhoods and a place called East Rockingham complete with "white residents only" attitudes that will burn a house down if other races move in. That's a fact that you can take to the bank. Don't believe me? Pick a family in East Rockinghmam and let them brag to you how anti-other races they are. The fact is that the south has a special brand name type racism and denies it to hell and back. Therein lies the problem.

Btw, I've paid attention to Native American racism too, here in the south. I pass for white although I am Tuscarora/White mixed. And guess who the worst racists are on that subject here. Yep, if you guessed other Native Americans, who call Tuscaroras/Lumbees racial slurs they usually reserve for black people, you would be right. The problem is more than black and white. The problem is more than north/south. The problem is that when someone mentions racism, the people who are ardently defending their race/geographic region refuse to acknowledge that the op in the subthread could possibly ever have experienced racism in their area. Always throwing it to some "other" area or group of people doesn't help end racism. It only makes the person feel like you are racist too, don't care, and are making excuses.

The bottom line is that we need to hash out some form of etiquette when it comes to how to deal with each other, regardless of race. This country is fractured in so many dangerous ways. If you look at what it happening with hate groups right now, you can see how we could be attacked from the outside based on the very race hate we are discussing now. If we wait for Bush and his cronies to see it, we are in trouble. WE need to point it out and fight it because he is not going to do it. A quick trip to the Southern Poverty Law Center's web site is worth the reading. I highly suggest it.

http://www.splcenter.org

Churches should NOT be burned because of who attends, crosses should not be burned in people's yards ANYWHERE IN THIS COUNTRY. It's something we all need to first acknowledge and then find a way to fight. And on a surface level, we need to empathize with people who have experienced racism even if we have experienced it ourselves. Constantly pointing north or west or outside the coutry and cheapening the person's experiences in the south is not the answer. It's denial.

Yeah, it might happen elsewhere too, but the southern brand of racism is the name brand form of racism that never seems to go away or get acknowledged. I live in the south. I have to deal with the proud heritage types every day. Other than places like the SPLC, I don't see enough being done to work on the problem. Yeah, I'm guilty as charged. I don't know all the answers, but I still care and I still want to see it chance. So sue me. You can't get blood out of a turnip, but you can work with me and acknowledge the racsim and try. It's the least we can do as a country.

[DarkTirade]

187. You also have to remember though

that here in Florida, it's not really 'in the south'. Most people in the state can't trace their family line back here more than a generation. It's pretty much half southerners, and half New Yorkers. (My family moved here from upstate NY actually.:) )

[Jamastiene]

215. I can attest to that. I live in a rural area and the attitudes

and the crime are actually worse here. When go to larger cities even here in NC, I do noticed less of the racism and even the homophobia. Maby not Charlotte so much, but the other larger cities are definitely better than here. There is still a lot of both racism and homophobia plus sexism. Even some women where I live don't think women should have equal rights. No kidding. Women like that really do exist too. And the racism here is horrible. Even some teachers at the community college I attend make racist comments and sexist comments. It IS better near the larger cities.

[Bridget Burke]

115. Plenty of neighborhoods & workplaces are quite diverse down here.

Of course, it's possible for newcomers to settle in Surburban Wastelend & think they know the whole place.

[William Bloode]

206. Uh, i ain't sure what south you've been to.

But here the burger flipping is done by hispanics, with mostly asians, and whites running the cash register. We have black chefs, teachers, doctors, insurance sales, construction, manufacturing, retail, but few flipping burgers, except the occasional teen.

Maybe all that suttle(subtle) racism was self imposed in your own mind. I have been all over the world, and i can say for sure the South is no more racist than any other place i have been.

[DelawareValleyDem]

118. No racial diversity in the North?

:rofl:

[TallahasseeGrannie]

128. Well, not really when I grew up

in Central NJ back in the 50's. We had about 10 percent black folks and that was it. Lots of ethnic groups as in Ukranian, Italian, German and Polish but everybody was white. It has changed a lot now, I think. Still mostly white folks, but a lot of Spanish being spoken.

But down here we are 50/50 black/white and I like that. It makes our culture rather unique.

[DrGonzoLives]

133. It's so diverse in the North

I mean, just look at the affluent suburbs of major cities, which, by the way, have perfectly integrated neighborhoods in them.

And, jeez, Vermont? New Hampshire? How diverse!

[DelawareValleyDem]

139. And affluent suburbs in the South

are different? Not the ones I've seen. To list racial diversity under an OP title "In Praise of the South" implies to me that there's little or no diversity in the North, which is simply ridiculous.

[Thtwudbeme]

153. ding ding ding! Wrong!!!

http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/5-24-2004-54638.asp

http://www.sptimes.com/2003/10/31/Worldandnation/Census__Blacks_moving.shtml

There are a couple of links for you to read for your edification. #1 city for African Americans to move to last year: Charlotte NC.

Maybe all the self satisfied white folks on DU can contact these people and explain how wrong the decision to move to the South is.

Good luck with that!

[DelawareValleyDem]

158. Wow, this must be

set up the straw men on my posts day. Maybe you can explain how my post translates into the South being a bad area for African Americans to move into. Also, I hope you're not assuming a priori that I'm white. I further hope that when all of us discuss racial diversity, we aren't limiting ourselves to the two groups you mentioned in your post.

Racial diversity is a great reason to enjoy an area. I just don't think you have to move to the South to experience it.

On edit: Not to beat a dead horse, but one of your links did include this snippet, which supports the only point I'm trying to make. There is diversity in the North.

'Some academics suggest that the reverse migration also signals a desire for voluntary segregation, a wish to be the dominant racial minority rather than one more ethnic minority alongside Hispanics and Asians in an increasingly diverse west and north.'

[DrGonzoLives]

165. Except

that the post you responded to did NOT say that there was no racial diversity in the South. You're the one that has decided to set the strawmen up here.

[DelawareValleyDem]

170. a good reason for me

to include the question mark at the end of the sentence, wouldn't you say? I've already explained why I had concerns about the post. The person to whom I responded didn't seem offended at what I wrote and explained to me the experiences she had in the time and place she was a resident.

[Zynx]

233. I live in Wisconsin and we are about 88%+ white up here.

[shrike]

220. Shame, isn't it?

How white-bread your life can be, in northern climes.

I live in one now, and we go out of our way to include people of color in our milieu. But it ain't easy.

[RagingInMiami]

29. Give me a heap of good ol' southern barbecue

A fine lady with a southern accent who is as enthralled with my accent as I am with her's.

And a good dose of southern blues and rock.

And I'll be fine.

[AspenRose]

30. Fried peach pies, Nehis and Fantas, Blue Bell Ice Cream

(OK, so that last one is Texas, but they've expanded to the Dirty South, I understand :-) )

My New Year's Day Dinner:
Fried Chicken
Collards
Mac & Cheese
BLACK EYED PEAS
Cornbread/Corn Pone (hee hee!)
Peach Cobbler

:9 It's my tradition, every year. Oh, and watching college football.

(I reconcile my southern traditions with my southwest traditions by having tamales for Christmas!)

OH: You know what else I miss? PORCHES. NO ONE AROUND HERE appreciates PORCHES!!! Which is why I have a "Out on the Porch" calendar every year.

[FreedomAngel82]

73. Don't forget Moon Pies and RC Cola!

And I love porches too. My great-grandmother on my dad's side lived literally in the middle of nowhere and we used to go visit her lots in the summer and we'd sit out on the porch and talk and she had a swinging seat and when I was younger my cousin's and I would play in her big huge yard. She also owned a rock crusher and we were able to go up there and hang out at this little man-made lake and ride bikes and than at night catch fireflies and have watermelon.

[bvar22]

31. The scents

The scent of Jasmine, Honeyuckle, Gardina, and Magnolia on still summer nights.

[bvar22]

33. Roses that bloom all year.

Southern FOOD...Southern FOOD....Southern FOOD

[TallahasseeGrannie]

36. camelias

[BOSSHOG]

41. Ours are in full bloom mode right now

I have to prune them back heavily in February or they'd take over the yard. We love them.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

44. Camelias are our

reward for surviving the summer.

My bushes are strange. One set blooms at Thanksgiving and another is still buds.

[jackster]

159. TallahasseeGrannie -

I love camillas. My Granny grew them and I miss them too!

Can you show us some pics????

[Aristus]

38. The Tennessee accent issuing from a woman.

My eighth-grade math teacher was from Tennessee and had a strong accent. She was dreamy! :loveya: And that sexy accent only helped. Man, I just did not do well in my math class. Too busy daydreaming. B-)

[TankLV]

40. There's a lot of that in ALL parts of the country.

No part of the counry has a corner on any of those items, ecept for the geographic specific vegitation - but which the other parts make up for in things the south doesn't have.

I've been almost everywhere, and each place I've found myself thinking "this would be a great place to live - every single one - the last one being Lake Charles, LA.

1,2,5,7,9,10 are common to ALL areas. The others have their similar geographic equals.

I've experienced every single one of them here in Vegas - in many ways it's like an overgrown village.

How many other places can you pull up next to the mayor and strike up a friendly conversation going into a building?

My personal favorite is Hawaii, where everyone is a "minority".

[William Bloode]

43. For me the South is......

The Great Smokies Mnts, Poke salad, blackberry cobbler, homade peach brandy. Pig pickin's(out door bbq parties that often last 2 days or more) fish fries, complete with hushpuppies and sour coleslaw. Fine country ham, and livermush. I love the fact i can fly my Confederate flag and no one automatically assumes i am a racist, and yes that even includes my black friends. Saying thankyou, excuse me, yes ma'am, and yes sir, and being given the same respect. It means getting a sore wrist and jaw from taking a trip to town, where you wave and smile at everyone whom you pass.

I have been all over this country, and around the world and i love the South the most of all.

[FreedomAngel82]

76. The only thing

that makes me uncomfortable is the confederate flag. :\ It just makes me feel uncomfortable and sad.

[William Bloode]

194. Oh cry me a river.

I wondered how long it would take for someone to make such a comment. If a simple flag and someone's love of their heritage bothers you i would suggest you toughen up a bit. It's just a flag and means different things to different people. Wonder of wonders is i have black nieghbours who fly it as well.

[Vektor]

45. Spanish moss, fried green tomatoes, and yes, alligators. (I like them.)

Gumbo, jambalaya, red beans and rice, warm winters, lush greenery year round, orchids that grow wild...

This Boston-born Yankee thinks the South is beautiful.

[renie408]

48. THANK YOU!!

I was born and raised in the South and continue to live here in SC. I know that we have our problems, but I love the southeast.

[K8-EEE]

53. Yeah, Thanks!

I have to say I have never been "South" unless you count weekend trips to Tijuana...this is a lovely thread. I do love a lot of Southern things, images....NoLa, certainly although I haven't been...

I'm a music lover so I'd have to say the city I would most, most like to visit, based on records, is MEMPHIS! Then after that....NoLa (but not if it gets Dick Cheney'ized during the rebuilding!) and Austin and then Nashville...

Rock on to all my Southern DUer friends!! Enjoying this thread vicariously from my native Los Angeles.

[FreedomAngel82]

51. I love living here too

I'm a die-hard Kennedy/FDR liberal and I love living here too. I love how for the most part people are friendly and the sites that you can see here in my area. It's so beautiful, especially in the spring and fall. There's just a more relaxed feel to everything.

[mykpart]

63. Waffle House

Cracker Barrel Restaurant & Country Store
Mexican Cornbread
All the Mom & Pop Barbecue places. There's one here named Bubba-cue!
Pecan Pie & Sweet Potato Pie
Being called "Ma'am" by young folks
The South is the birthplace of William Faulkner, Julia Roberts and CNN. Also Jimmy Carter, Sam Ervin, John Edwards.

[Buns_of_Fire]

88. Oh, yes! Waffle House!

I have fond memories of sitting at the counter, ordering Cheesy Eggs and Bacon and Raisin Toast with apple butter and The World's Best Coffee (tm) with a side of orange juice and, naturally, GRITS! (Mix in some butter, salt and pepper to taste, and wait for them to solidify a little so you can cut them into little blocks and build a little igloo in your plate and then EAT it!)

This is not, of course, intended to omit their Hash Browns (scattered, smothered, covered, chopped, diced, peppered, pureed, liquified, beaten, whipped, and humiliated ;-) ).

But, I admit, I have YET to become comfortable with being called "sir."

[Celeborn Skywalker]

66. Barbecue, the women, racial diversity, and nice people.

[FreedomAngel82]

77. There's also some good gospel music too

:)

[Celeborn Skywalker]

79. The music, yes.

Not just gospel, but blues, jazz, southern rock, bluegrass, country (the real kind, not the corporate crap).

[sweetheart]

78. fire ants, mosquitos

Breathtaking heat in the summer,
"across the tracks",
chewing tobacco, and chaw-circles on the back pocket of blue jeans,
stars and bars,
Women with way-too-much makeup,
men with their names on the backs of their belts,
Lots of fat white people,
lots of poor fat black people,
and people who've willingly shared
some of the most eye-watering racist ignorance
i've encountered anywhere on the planet.

But surely just a small minority... but those things
overweigh the factors you mention. If i can avoid
visiting the american south for the rest of my life,
i will. A coupla years was enough.

[Appalachian_American]

86. eye-watering racist ignorance...

I know the South will always carry the racist label, but, seriously, the most eye-watering racist ignorance that you've encountered anywhere on the planet??? I'm sincerely curious about how much of the planet you've covered?

I have a little story that always comes to mind when I read stuff like this. A few years ago, in Huntsville, Alabama, I worked with a black woman who grew up in south Alabama in the 1950s and 60s. I use black instead of African American because when I worked with this woman I was the only white chick in the group. We were a close-knit group who talked about everything, including differences in black and white culture. They used to tease me about my whiteness, but it was always good-natured. I specifically asked them about the black vs. African American description and 3 of the 4 preferred black. Maybe that isn't a scientific poll, but it works for me.

Anyway, this woman was married to a doctor who went to medical school in Madison, Wisconsin in the late 1970s and early 1980s. She told me that she never felt comfortable living there. She said that when she and her children went out anywhere that they were stared at and made to feel like zoo animals. She preferred the South and moved back because she felt that she knew who disliked her because she was black. It was obvious; whereas it was much more subtle and uncomfortable in Madison.

The interesting thing to me is that I have always heard that Madison, Wisconsin is extremely progressive. I'm sure many people feel like you do, sweetheart, but it sounds like the South just isn't your cup of tea.

[myrna minx]

112. Welcome to DU, Appalachian_American.

I grew up near Madison in the 1970's and 80's and I would have to agree with your assessment. While Madison has always been a progressive city regarding economical and environmental policies, per se, it was not at all the racially diverse city it is today.

I grew up about 30 miles south of there, where my town was as white as white could be. While no one would consider themselves racist, anytime a person of color would be shopping at the mall, they would be stared at, mostly I suppose, because it was such a rarity in my town. That and I'm sure fear of anything different. No one considered themselves to be racist, but this area at that time, is where when describing someone of color you would whisper the work *black* or *jewish* etc. You know, polite racism. :sarcasm:

My best friend growing up was black, we shared the same name which was unique at that time, so as a child, I didn't realize the racial divide in my town. As I grew up, and my friend an I grew apart and sometimes childhood friends do, I truly recognized the difficulty that my friend and her sister had living in a community that saw her has so incredibly different from themselves. It was quite isolating.

I guess what I;m trying to say is that racism is not a southern thing, it's all over the country and takes many different forms. WHile the people in my community would never think of themselves as racist, they in essence were through fear of the unknown. But the paradox was that our community was also proud of having one of the stops on the Underground Railroad located at the Milton House and also having the Tallman's home hosting President Lincoln. My community was strongly abolitionist. :shrug:

Oh, and every time I have been to the south...whether it be Memphis, St. Louis or New Orleans, I have been treated with such kindness and respect, that i just love visiting the south. Being a vegetarian has perplexed many a southern cook, but all of the good people that served me up the most delicious food were so incredibly gracious and thoughtful. :hi:

The wonderful people of New Orleans would always smile when I would say I'm from just up the river road in Minneapolis. :hug:

[sweetheart]

175. Blatant and undressed

I agree that japan, korea and the far east are actually much more racist
societies truth be told. Even today, only a racially pure japanese can
get a passport... and the other races are not quite equal citizens.

But i've never encountered anywhere except the south persons who would not
use washing facilities used by black persons, who would not speak to black
persons. And the hatred was purely based on race, that black skin was
seen as dirty, less human or some nonsense incomprehensible.

I went to university in the south, and did door to door sales on my summer
vacation to pay for college, so i visited many many southern people in their
homes, on their front porches, in 100% canvassing of neighborhoods in texas,
TN, and several parts of GA. That is, those places i've met thousands of
persons and worn out shoes walking every street. The poverty of the black
neighborhoods was sickening, and the cheeky racist remarks the white folks
would come out with to a white salespersons really were eyewatering.

And you are right to point out... as the racism of california segregation in
los angeles, or white supremecists in PA... the problem is a global one, and
it is a bit unfair to brand the south as somehow unique. But that said, it
does claim still a rather forward position in the whole scheme of things or
we wouldn't call him a "southern man".

[bamademo]

204. Hey! Welcome to DU.

I'm from Huntsville also. I've lived here for years and I'm finding it to be more and more progressive in regards to race relations. I have very candid conversations with my black friends about race and it's made us all closer.

[Appalachian_American]

218. thank you myrna minx and bamademo

And thank you, sweetheart, for a reasonable response.

[reality based]

93. And sometimes the racism comes from the sweetest lips!

I'll never forget a discussion between two coeds, one from east Texas and the other from west Texas. The west Texas girl condemned the other's attitude toward blacks while the east Texas girl pounced on her companion's equally virulent racist remarks about Mexicans. It was a "Christian" school, doncha see?

[Media_Lies_Daily]

108. Based on your comments, you might not be welcome to come back....

...such appalling ignorance of a geographic region never ceases to amaze me.

I've lived and traveled through every state in the mainland U. S., and I've encountered the same sort of stuff you described in your post in ever single one of those states. The difference between you and me is that I don't dwell on the usual stereotypes but choose instead to remember the positive experiences I had in each state.

[Bridget Burke]

116. Some people travel a bit & always find them surrounded by bad folks.

Others travel a bit more. They see some bad things, but find that good people can be found anywhere.

[sweetheart]

180. Some times its just the way the cookie crumbles

I found some very nice persons in the south, many as do write here on DU as well.

A few years is a long time to live and travel around a place, and if the resulting
experience is the knowlege to leave and never come back, then maybe that is why
i was not in the path of hurricaine katrina. I never followed the path that
would have gotten me there. Its not about finding good and back people, but
what works for an individual in life. A big powerful shark can be killed by
fresh water. A freshwater fish dies in sea water. I don't make any judgements
about fish that find out what water best sustains them.

Considering that my years ago university library is now called george w bush
library is a sign that i made the right decision to leave east texas long ago.
And for people like ted nugent, it is a haven of goodwill... (freshwater fish)

[Bridget Burke]

222. Ah, you went to Texas A&M. (Insert Aggie joke here.)

Your superior knowledge meant that you escaped Hurricane Katrina. Are those who suffered from the storm your inferiors?

[ultraist]

201. NYC has the most racially segregated public schools in the nation

Whereas, SC has the highest rate of interracial marriage in the nation. Overall, there is much more intergration in the South.

What's more damaging, using politically incorrect terms or denying children and adults of color equal opportunity, particularly equal access to a decent education and employment?

Eye watering racism is having all of the black children attend underfunded, dilapted schools while all of the white children attend decent educational institutions as is the case in most major Northern cities.

[sweetheart]

212. its deplorable everywhere

I agree with you that its a nationwide phenomena, driven by a "federal" policy of racial
segregation influenced by "southern man" thinking. A virtual stereotype that does not
exist, is "thinking" for the american people, even today with the white-washed television
face of a not so white nation.

There is an endemic, acceptable crime of racism, past and present. People just get on
with business, and maybe they are blind to the prisons being overly filled with blacks,
for texas execucting blacks and burning the bodies in their huntsville *bush* ovens.

I find the tenements of los Angeles, the millions in a black urban underclass prison
where the entire "riot zone" of los angeles is an urban third world black ghetto...
in sunny perfect california, a prison state, prison economy, built on the back of
a race-based drugs war.

I'll give you south carolina, ain't done much thereabouts, and maybe its utopia.

The race problems are in netherlands, UK, sweden, germany, austria and all the old
nightmares of racism still keep their seedbanks active. The US has no corner or
monopoly on evil either... sadly, or in impeaching bush we'd be safe.

The only place on earth where i've seen people openly, publically, repeatedly speak and
act in extremely racist ways: California, Texas, Penn., England, Scotland.

When its ok to behave like that in semi-public, then it is strongly endemically established,
that if you were black, there would not be a single room of 10 white persons you could
stand-in in any of those places without sitting with the undiscussed real racism in
the room, not the guy in the south. Racism is tragic. The south has no corner on it,
just "a" corner.

[Jamastiene]

217. Let's not forget that the Charlotte Mecklenburg School system

is going down that path too. Those problems still haven't been resolved.

[Jamastiene]

80. Chilli on my hotdog. I do like southern soul food. n/t

[EFerrari]

81. What is "mayhaw jelly"?

It sounds, well, dangerous. :)

[Lochloosa]

104. Here is an explanation. The best Jelly you will ever eat.

Send me a PM w/ shipping info and I'll gladly send you some.

Mayhaw Jelly is a rare delicacy made from the tart red berry that grows in the swamps and bogs of Southwest Georgia. Colquitt, in Miller County, Georgia, is the center of the Mayhaw growing area. Mayhaw trees grow wild in such a small geographical area that the berries are highly prized and the tart sweet jelly hoarded for special occasions Mayhaws are called berries, but technically they are members of the haw or apple family. In May the red berries are gathered by hand or scooped out of the water in fishnets. The berries are boiled, then squeezed, to get clear coral colored juice that is made into “the best jelly in the world”.

[EFerrari]

117. Thanks! That's really interesting. I hope you haven't given away

a Georgia state secret. :)

[jackster]

160. I'd forgotten about mayhaw jelly....

my parents and grandparents would take a ride up to Ga and come back with the mayhaws every year.

Such good memories.... thank you!

[Daphne08]

176. My grandmother made the best Mayhaw Jelly in the world!

I was born and raised in the South. I miss it.

[eridani]

87. Nice list, except for that part about the iced tea

Gack! :thumbsdown:

[Chimichurri]

92. the most delicious peaches I've ever had

I'm from NJ and passing through Georgia we bought some peaches on the side of a dirt road and oh, Nelly! The sweetest peaches I'd ever had.

[Thirtieschild]

134. I miss Southern peaches even more than I miss rain

[eppur_se_muova]

235. No peach dies happy except as peach cobbler. nt

[trotsky]

99. I married a Southern gal.

Modify your #7 to include BOILED PEANUTS, please! :-)

I am also a Sweet Tea addict and grew quite attached to Chick-Fil-A sandwiches during my visits to North Carolina.

The South has GREAT food.

[alcibiades_mystery]

106. We have 1), 2), 6), 9), and 10) up north too, even in New York City

We can get the rest in a theme restaurant. ;-)

[Lochloosa]

107. My List

1. Front Porches (for the ice tea)

2. Guitar Picken' (on that front porch)

3. Swamp Smells (kind of like Scotch. An aquired taste)

4. Mullet Fry (with cheese grits and hush puppies made cornmeal and beer)

5. Southern women. (they take no prisoners)

[jackster]

162. ahhhh, a good ole' fish fry

with mullet, cheese grits, coleslaw, and hushpuppies. I haven't had mullet in years - but I can taste it now.

Thanks for the memories!

p.s. where I'm from, we also added swamp cabbage? know what that is?

[Lochloosa]

168. Heart of the cabbage palm

yummy!

[jackster]

169. yep - where are you from????

has to be from my neck of the woods....

[Lochloosa]

172. Born and raised in Tallahassee. Live in Jacksonville now

had a family friend from S. Florida that would bring swamp cabbage to my Grandfather when I was a kid.

[jackster]

174. HEY Lochloosa - I was born and raised in PERRY!

but found my way to Boston. I like Jax too but it's WAY too rethug. My formerly Democratic family living there have all seen the light and are now worshippers at the altar of Bill O'Reilly and think Bush is the new Messiah. I can't even talk to them anymore they're so far removed from reality.

And don't get me started on Perry - an old family friend was the one a couple of years ago who lost his bar because he made black customers use the back door!

[Lochloosa]

186. Uh..that "black customer" was a well known lawyer.

and the bar owner deserved to loose his liquor license.

I have been to Perry many times. Never stopped when driving through.

[jackster]

192. yes, thank god the black customer was someone

who wouldn't sit back and take it like the other African Americans in Perry - He was visiting I believe. The practice was common knowledge as long as I can remember. The bar had been in the family for decades. And the Rev Sharpton actually made a trip there in protest before the final judgements. But doncha know, my very republican born again chrischun sister defends the owner continually. Their being church and golf partners means alot more than the equal treatment of everyone. The concensus in Perry - much ado about nothing.

I wouldn't take any amount of money to move back...

[Rockholm]

109. Charlestonian living in Boston, here are mine:

1. Fried Okra
2. Boiled Peanuts
3. Bessinger's BBQ Sauce (minus his hateful politics)
4. Live oaks
5. Big Southern Magnolias (I have one growing in my yard in the Boston burbs)
6. Crepe Myrtles and camelias (have them too!)

edit: spelling

[Lochloosa]

121. How could I leave off Fried Okra...

My Grandmother made the best. Note to everyone, get the recipes before it's too late.

I have been trying to cook okra like hers for 30 years. I almost have it!

[jackster]

163. I think the cast iron skillet is the key to most southern cooking!

n/t

[bigfootme]

135. Don't forget

The pickled peaches, pickled watermellon rinds, gazillion different varieties of peas, streak O lean, slaw dogs, fatback, Brunswick stew, and Vidalia oninons.

[Rockholm]

203. OK, now I am sick.

No proper Charlestonian would eat ANY of those things except for the peas and onions.

[madokie]

114. So which neighbor of mine are you.

[Jamison]

120. Weather is the #1 reason to want to live there.

For me at least.

It's not winter 9 months out of the year there like it is in Chicago/St. Louis, etc.

[misanthrope]

126. No, it's summer for 9 months...

...and Southern summers are every bit as deadly as Minnesota winters.

And the combination of heat and humidity makes an ideal incubator for all manner of contagions and disease.

[carolinalady]

125. ok-regarding the driving thing? It is obvious you are not from

Wilmington--LOL! Otherwise I agree (esp. with number 6!)

[Hubert Flottz]

127. We've got the best of both worlds here on the Mason Dixon line!

Mountaineer football!
Hot Dawgs with chili sauce and cole slaw!
Pinto beans/with ham, buttered corn pone and fried taters and onions!
Mountaineer football!
Roadkill possum and sweet taters, with big cathead biscuits for soppin up the gravy!
Fine fishing and hunting!
Coal!
Jesco White the Dancin Outlaw!
Mountaineer football!
Sheep that don't kick!
Mountaineer football!

[AspenRose]

232. My favorite thing about West Virginia

Jesco White :-)

No kidding.

[YOY]

130. I love the "Southern Gentleman/Belle" steriotype

I wish it was more prevalent with the Fundie Redneck type that seems so vocal down south...

[misanthrope]

136. The stereotypes you speak of...

...are remnants of a feudal system where the landed gentry kept their feet on the necks of the poor.

It's about as romantic as a sharecropper's shack.

[YOY]

137. I'm talking about the modern equivalents and not 'Uncle Tom's Cabin'

...but hey, take all the offense you want.

[misanthrope]

140. Thanks for granting me that privilege...

...My great-grandparents WERE those sharecroppers and I've seen the depths of the poverty and repression in the South first hand, so forgive me if I don't wrap it in some romantic image.

Head into the Black Belt of Alabama to see some other legacies of that same system and how bitter its fruit is. You'll see things many have never seen outside of Save the Children info-mercials on late night television.

Having manners has nothing to do with social class. The stereotypes you specifically conjured are firmly rooted in a subliminally hostile class system.

There are some good things about the South that are well-represented in this thread, most being culinary or artistic in nature, but what you mention is certainly not one of them.

The best thing the South could ever do is learn to look forward more frequently, and to look honestly at its problems. There is too much blind deference to the past here.

A luxury hotel in the Mobile area ran an advertising campaign in the last decade that proclaimed, "Come to (name withheld) and step back in time 140 years."

Amazing.

[YOY]

141. When I think of 'Southern Gentleman/Belle' I really don't attach color

to it. I can think of some black friends and associates who definitely have the southern charm to them and fit my definition of a southern gentleman/belle. One doctor I've had in the past comes to definite mind...from Atlanta as I recall... The charm of a gentleman or belle has nothing, in my mind, to do with social class or color. I consider Morgan Freeman (when interviewed) to be a Southern Gentleman for example: educated but slow-spoken, friendly but humble.

Yes the dirt poor is still there... It hasn't gone away and only a fool would assume it has. It still hasn't been addressed and may never be addressed if things keep going like they are regretfully.

Just one Italian yankee's opinion...btw they liked to lynch us too. I had an great uncle, straight off the boat, who couldn't stand being in the south when he had to travel there in the 1930s. They made him sleep in the 'colored only' hotels, b/c he was so dark (and had African hair as well.) Talk about the whole 'passing as white' shoe on the other foot.

I agree about blind deference to the past...

[IA_Seth]

154. I agree with you..

My grandfather was a share-cropper and a cotton picker for a good portion of his life. Poor as hell, he moved north to Iowa when my momma was in her teens and neither he nor his father ever had much of anything....by no means were they "landed gentry"

But memories of both grandparents (and my mom, and I hope to some extent me) conjure up those images of southern class, southern gentlemen, and southern belles.

Its just the way it is for me.

[misanthrope]

179. Have you had the chance...

...to spend a lot of time in the South?

[misanthrope]

178. So how many...

..."Northern belles" or "Western belles" have you ever run into?

[YOY]

188. We simply call them 'ladies' in the north

and I have no idea what they are called out west other than 'ladies.'

'Belle' is simply the french word for beauty. A reminder of the french influence of the south. I am sure one can find 'Belles' in Montreal.

Please, just stop looking for an argument or a racist in my remarks. You're not going to find either one here. Check over at the FR...they are in legion there.

[misanthrope]

197. The French influence...

...in the South is pretty much limited to the Central Gulf Coast, from Mobile westward to the Louisiana-Texas border. The Spanish influence can be seen in Florida, obviously, but the majority of the Deep South is influenced by British, Scotch and Irish roots.

And I'm not trying to ascribe racism to your posts.

So, why are polite "ladies" in the South not merely "ladies?" What's the difference between a "Southern belle" and a "lady?"

[YOY]

209. Why is it called Soda in one region and Pop in another?

Why do we call the corn 'corn' and the British call it 'maize'? Why does the word 'skeet' mean something you shoot with a rifle to some and to other's a sexual act? I hardly think the title of 'Belle' to be all that detrimental to the south in the general especially when compared to other regional alterations...


The French influence extends to a more genteel age of considering the French to be the most cultured and educated. Remember at once they were the language of diplomacy. Pretty sure it goes back to Colonial periods. Perhaps to the rural setup of the south that allowed the rich (yes, the land and slave-owners) to take that francophilia to the next level. That 'french connection' to the ladies of the south may be construed as connected with the racist past, but only if one is over-analyzing and connecting things Tertiary. Nobody wants to forget the past, but there is nothing wrong with taking those things connected with the remembered wrongs of the past and connecting them with positive but similar things in the future. Does a charming person of the south of any color with specific mannerisms tied to the south not act as sweet?


Sorry, but it simply seems that you're arguing for the sake of arguing...

[misanthrope]

219. If a charming person...

...is a "charming person," then that's all that matters.

The point I'm making is that usage of the term "Southern belle" has less to do with manners and more to do with an archetype.

Astute people who have lived in the South understand the complex social system here and the sense of entitlement that accompanies the "Southern gentleman" and "Southern belle" mindset. Some of us call it "Scarlett Syndrome" and many women are eaten up with it. If you like women who would fit in, attitude-wise, more with Boston debutantes than salt-of-the earth types, then go ahead and worship at that "Southern belle" altar.

I once sat in a Los Angeles eatery with a buddy who had relocated to the West Coast and one of his co-workers. His friend, who had never been down South, said in conversation that he would like to "have a crack" at a Southern girl one time. My buddy and I just looked at each other and burst into laughter. The fellow asked what was so funny. We told him we'd give him two hours alone with a Southern woman and she'd have have him rolling in his own excrement with her shoe heel in his face and he'd be begging for more. There's a lot more to things than meets the eye.

And all those "genteel" people you envision from the South? Well, your ears would likely scorch at the things they say about others behind their backs. A lot of what you mistake for genuine niceness is little more than social pretense.

[socalover]

230. Too many mosquitoes in the south

That's my experience, they all smile in front of you but as soon as you turn your back, they stab you and suck your blood! I saw it so many times on my job.

[Texasgal]

161. The South has made plenty of strides....

There is no place that is perfect, no State.... No Country.

Give us the benefit of working to correct the past, there are many of us who bust our asses to do so.

[jackster]

164. and THAT'S why I won't EVER move back....

thank you for a dose of reality. The South has come a long way from my earliest memories of "colored" water fountains and bathrooms, but one drive into the "black" section of my hometown - into the poorest section of one of the poorest counties in Florida is all I need to remind me that it's not come far enough. There is racism everywhere - but what I see here in the North is racism without the grinding poverty and inability to rise up out of it no matter how fervent the desire.

[DrGonzoLives]

166. Take a drive through the "black" neighborhoods of Chicago

and tell me that you still have that sentiment.

Or any large city in the north, for that matter.

News flash: it's everywhere, not just down in redneck land, and to act like Pollyanna and say "Well, in the North, blacks can work hard and make it" is simply idiotic.

[jackster]

171. sorry, no - I've seen the poor sections of major cities

they DON'T compare to what you will see in the some parts of the very deep south

Houses little more than shanties
no running water
no electricity
outhouses
clothes that could pass as rags

of course this is the worst of the worst, but it does exist.

And I don't say that the northern blacks can't make it - I'm not saying that anyone CAN'T make it. And I'm not saying that poverty doesn't exist everywhere - it does. But it's different down there and unless you've seen it and experienced it, you wouldn't believe it.

[misanthrope]

183. In all fairness...

...the living conditions you described, which is EXACTLY what I was referring to, are found elsewhere in the nation, too. Of course, most of the time you have to head up into the Appalachian hills or to reservations in order to find them.

[jackster]

189. this is true - Appalachia, Native American reservations

are also places of desperate poverty and hopelessness. I am forever arguing with my coworkers here in the Boston burbs who cannot understand why those "down south" can't just pick up and get themselves out of poverty - or out of the way of a hurricane, or whatever. The people I deal with on a daily basis now have never seen newspaper stuffed in the cracks of tar-paper shacks to keep the cold out or children without shoes in winter. It's not entirely racial - there are many "whites" in these circumstances as well, but the majority are "minorities."

[misanthrope]

196. Yes, it is so very obvious...

...down here how racism has always been used as a tool of division to keep the "have-nots" from rising up in unison against the vastly outnumbered "haves."

[ScreamingMeemie]

148. My husband, his family, and all of their traditions, love of life, and

neighbor.

[Bake]

155. G.R.I.T.S.

Girls Raised In The South.

The most beautiful women on the planet are in the South. And I've been all over the U.S. of A.

Bake

[AverageJoe]

157. One Southerner to another

Thank you for your post. I can't imagine living anywhere but the South. I was born in Kentucky and have lived in Mississippi, Tennessee and Alabama--and in New Hampshire and Maine.

New England was beautiful and I met a lot of nice people up there, but Dorothy was right....

[DanCa]

177. Delta and Missippi Blues came from the south

So did Elvis Presely. Music would sorely be lacking without southren influence Toby Keith not withstanding.

[KamaAina]

195. So did jazz

despite the best efforts of King Dumbass**, Assclown Mike Brown, human cockroach Denny Hastert and others, New Orleans, the "Birthplace of Jazz", is still very much a part of the South.

[misanthrope]

198. However...

...NOLA is very much unlike the rest of the region and some of those differences are direct reasons for the germination of jazz in the Crescent City.

[butterfly77]

199. I know what you mean I have never been to the south...

I live up north, as they say but people think I'm from the south because I talk like my mother, who is from the south I guess I picked up the dialect. I usually get where are you from in the south?

While growing up I always felt that I should have grown up in the south. I guess because my parents and grands brought some of southern traditions, foods and other things up here, and it seems as though you are more free and you don't have to be politically correct,in all areas of your life.

[shrike]

221. The South has New Orleans

One of my absolute favorite cities, and I've visited many.

May she rise from the dead -- or rest in peace.

[Bridget Burke]

224. Well, Marie Laveau rose again....

At least, she has two graves in NOLA. I think the city has enough Spirit to come back...

[shrike]

225. Hope you're right

America would be a much poorer place without it.

[dryan]

229. My list....

palm trees
live oak trees
cypress trees
'gators
poinsettias growing wild
orchids and hibiscus growing wild
azaleas blooming in January
hush puppies
southern fried chicken - not KFC - the real thing
the beach - the water is warm
Kennedy Space Center - we can go out on our front yard and see launches
St. Augustine
Fort Caroline
Key West
'the endless garage sale' - goes over I think 4 states
country music - even though I personally hate about 75% of it
mint juleps
Kentucky Derby
hot browns
Daytona 500