Proportionality.

[DistressedAmerican]

Israel holds between 8,500 and 10,000 Lebanese citizens. Many of those without charge since the 1980's. Hezbollah holds two uncharged and untried Israeli citizens since about a month ago.

Israeli rocket and bomb attacks have killed hundreds over the past several weeks and thousands during the last such hostilities. Hezbollah rockets has killed 8 people in the entire five years before this began.

Israel uses missiles and high precison aricraft bought with American money from American companies. Hezbollah uses shitty rockets they make by hand in basements.

Isreal has the capability to destroy the entire civilian infrastructure of Lebanon from the air while filming it from another aircraft. Hezbollah fires pot shots across the border hoping they hit SOMETHING.

Israel occupied southern Lebanon for years. Hezbollah can barely cross the border for a short raid.

Proportional?

[calmblueocean]

1. Here's a question for you.

If Hezbollah had nukes, do you think they would use them against Israel?

I don't mean that in a snarky way, I'm wondering your actual opinion.

[DistressedAmerican]

4. Nope.

Fallout and being obliterated. IMO, it is fear mongering to suggest otherwise.

Not sure how this relates to the content of the op.

Proportional or not?

[in_cog_ni_to]

7. Oh please.

That's why Hezbollah and Hamas exist, it's their life's DREAM...TO KILL EVERY JEW IN ISRAEL. If they had a nuke, they wouldn't blink an eye at using it and I, for one, DON'T WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT THEY WOULD DO WITH A NUKE.

[chimpymustgo]

13. Well, you've come to the end of your short road of arguments.

Give it up. You got nothing left.

[in_cog_ni_to]

35. Trust me.

I have given up on you and your anti-Israel/Pro-Hezbollah crap. It's pathetic.

[smacky44]

14. Oh, please, stop changing the OP's subject. Deal with the REAL

topic. Not even a good try to respond with a hypothetical question as an answer to a REAL question about something that is or has actually happened.

[in_cog_ni_to]

33. LOL. YES! The very first HYPOTHETICAL question EVER to be asked on DU!

:eyes: Geezus. Get a grip. If you don't think Hezbollah would like to have a nuke, I've got a bridge to sell YOU.

[DistressedAmerican]

43. Hey Captain Distraction, Ever going to answer the question?

Is all you have repeating this BS hypothetical until the cows come home.

Admit that the facts above show a totally disporportional match or show me they are wrong.

The rest s a fucking waste of everyone's time. Hezbolla does not have a nuke and they are not getting one.

Israel on the other hand is well armed in that catewgory. MOre disporportionality. Unless you think yout theoretical bombs could kill as many as Israel's real ones.

I hate when people distract rather than deal with facts that they do not like.

Now answer the damn question.

[DistressedAmerican]

57. Guess not.

Distract and run.

[DistressedAmerican]

22. Hello. You do not nuke someone right across your own border.

Whi irradiates their own families? No wonder you are so wacked out on this issue. You have so totally demonized the Lebonese that you have no prespective. That is messed up. Evil even. Way to dehumanize the other. Sickening.

Any assertion to the contrary is both bullshit and has nothing to do with the content of the OP.

Want to address those facts? Or can't you dispute them with anything but these BS distractions?

[calmblueocean]

11. Not sure I understand

Fallout, okay, I get that. You're saying they wouldn't use nukes because they'd be afraid that fallout would contaminate Lebanon, right?

Being obliterated -- you mean, they wouldn't use nukes because they'd be afraid Israel would do what? Nuke them back?

How come you didn't say, "They would never do that because they would find it immoral"?

[DistressedAmerican]

25. I'll say that when you can swear to me that anything other than similar

concerns forces Isael to hold back.

Although it is a total BS distraction (since I assume you simply can't refute the facts presented in the OP), I am glad you brought up Israel's ILLEGAL mnukes supplied by us.

That certainly does weigh on the proportionality question (which I see you still refuse to answer). It makes the balance even more sickeningly imbalanced.

[calmblueocean]

66. I don't care for either side.

Israel has committed many atrocities, but they've also offered many opportunities for peace to those who hate them. Hezbollah and Hamas have both stated that they don't recognize Israel's right to exist. I'm not convinced either would care about the disapproval of the world if they actually had the capacity to murder all the Jews and destroy Israel. To me that marks a significant line between them.

I don't support Israel's actions in this conflictm but Hezbollah militants and other anti-Semitic Jew-haters aren't worthy of my sympathy, either.

Honestly, I would prefer it if the US butted out of middle east politics completely and focused that money on retooling our energy economy. I think our money has contributed to making things worse in the region instead of better. Or perhaps, if I were president, I would offer our foreign aid as grants that could be applied for only by peaceful organizations. Build hospitals, schools, rebuild apartments, libraries, but not a penny for violence. First preference would be given to organizations run mutually by Arabs and Israelis.

[Redstone]

2. How about some sources for your prisoner-count claim. And also,

if Hezbollah is such a puny and weak organization, maybe they shouldn't have been shooting rockets into Israel for the last six years.

If you KNOW the other guy can kick your ass, do you keep poking him until he gets pissed off enough to punch you?

Redstone

[DistressedAmerican]

5. The 8.500 was reported on CNN two or three days ago

as were the details about then not being charged and held since the 1980's.

The 10,000 came from another source posted to the thread I started at the time I heard the CNN comments. I'll look for the link for you.

on edit:
Not sure what your second question has to do with proportionality. Many totally outgunned people have attacked the people they saw as opressing them. What is so unusual about that? It is called asymetric warfare. I'm sure you well know what that is Redstone.

[EFerrari]

6. Redstone, look at this from Human Rights Watch

http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2006/07/17/lebano13748.htm

[Redstone]

17. OK, thanks. Just wanted some confirmation.

Redstone

[EFerrari]

26. Thank you for being sane. It's been pretty wierd around here

lately.

And no wonder.

[Redstone]

58. I'm sorry if it bothers you to hear me say this, but I have to:

1) As far as I'm concerned, ONE dead child is too many.

2) That does not forgive those murderous Hezboallah sons of bitches, who killed 241 of our Marines, and whose major tactic is to park a truck full of rockets IN THE MIDDLE OF A CROWDED TOWN, and fire the rockets at Israeli cities.

There are truly evil people in this world. The Israelis have done wrong, over and over again, but that does NOT forgive Hezbollah for starting all this shit.

Redstone

[EFerrari]

61. Redstone, I don't condone 1 death.

Not 1.

Beth

[Redstone]

64. Then we have to look at who started the killing, don't we?

And you know who that was. People keep mentioning the two kidnapped Israeli soldiers, but for some reason don't mention the nine dead ones.

Redstone

[DistressedAmerican]

68. What date you suggest we consider the cutoff point?

That blame game is the chicken and the egg by now. It has gone on for a very long time with artocities on both sides.

So who "started" that? Chicken or egg?

[EFerrari]

69. That is the hook the wranglers will use to draw us in.

You are completely right about that.

And the thing is, there is so much history, where did it begin?

Really, if we go down this road, imho, it won't work. Not because I back terrorists but because both sides have their stuff to untangle. We could be here all goddamn day.

I don't pretend to have answers.

But, it might be a good idea to stop killing civilians. Although, I've no expectation of that happening because BushCo wants this war so much.

I think we're fucked.

/o

[Redstone]

71. There's MY problem. Listen to me: I'm half American Indian (please

don't use the term Native American, OK?), so you can imagine that I have some affinity toward the Israelis. outnumbered, surrounded, shittled from one place in the world to another. then, when they go to their "reservation" where the world told them they'd be able to live and be left alone, they're faced with active hostility from all sides.

Kinda like American indians, yes?

But now, I can't say a word in support of them without being attacked by a myriad of DUers, because to those DUers, anybody who's supported by those assholes in Washington must be that bad guy.

I think I need to leave DU for a few weeks.

Do, please, think about my Israelite / American Indian simile, would you? I know you're a damn intelligent woman. Just think about it.

redstone

[DistressedAmerican]

76. Bogus Analogy. Dead backwards.

The "American Indians" did not kick anyone off of their land. They did not keep a preexisting population poor and disenfranchized.

If you want to talk reservation, tell it to the 1 million Palestinians that are now living in two small disconnected reservations of their own. Kept stateless and desperate. Unable to even cross their own borders without the permission of Israel. Which looks more like a reservation to you? Seriously. Palestinian territoties (think indian territory) or the STATE of Isreael?

I think you are 180 degrees off on who is who in your analogy. Totally backwards. Tell me when the Pelestinians have ever displace Israelis and put them in territories of their own design. It is easy to point out the opposite.

[Redstone]

77. No.

Redstone

[Name removed]

79. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EFerrari]

80. I'm here, Redstone. And no issue will make me less your friend.

That's all.

[DistressedAmerican]

63. I Have Not Seen A Single Person Forgive Anyone.

MOst everyone that is actually asked (rather than their support assumed)seems to condemn such acts. However right now, the focus is on the Israeli overreaction. Criticism of Israel is not equal to support of Hezbollah, thinking they are hereos or fogiving their violence.

My question was with regard to proportionality.

[PA Democrat]

27. Great source of information. Thanks for posting. n/t

[EFerrari]

29. What, you think I'd try to snow Redstone?

lol

:)

[DistressedAmerican]

9. Sorry. Not Cnn. MSNBC. Here's the link.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=1662629

[Redstone]

19. I got a link from sfexpat, too. Thanks for looking it up and providing

the link.

Redstone

[DistressedAmerican]

28. Anytime. Pretty shocking stat huh? Made me stop and think.

That is a lot of people that Israel holds in GITMO style, uncharged limbo.

All of those 8,500 have families. I wonder if that motivates them to support or oppose Israel?

DA:hi:

[Redstone]

54. But that does NOT make those muderous Hezbolah motherfuckers some

kind of heroes. Let me be clear on that.

Redstone

[DistressedAmerican]

62. Certainly, I have never argued any such thing.

I find them reprehensible. However, Israel's response has been FAR MORE reprehensible.

It DOES make them hypocrites getting all bomby over two of their own while acting like the 8,500 to 10,000 are not provocation that on the exact same grounds motivates Hezbollah's attacks

Let me be clear on that.

[Redstone]

65. No. Hezbollah's attacks are NOT motivated by the prisoners. They are

motivated by a VERY PUBLICLY STATED desire to kill Jews.

You want to make excuses for them? Be my guest.

Redstone

[DistressedAmerican]

70. Funny. When the soldiers were captured, They IMMEDIATELY

asked for a prisoner exchange. Their stated reason was a a prisoner swap. The Israeli's could have had their men back already. But, they rejected the request outright and started their slaughter. You can assert otherwise all you want. But, it is dishonest to do so. The motivation for the incursion is well stated.

If their goal was to "KILL JEWS" why did they capture two alive? Why not just kill them? Their statements AND actions suggest you are dead wrong.

You are letting your haterd of Hezbollah blind you Redstone. Your logic is usually much more crisp than this.

You are getting heated here. I have excused nothing. I have noted what they say motivated the attacks.

[Redstone]

72. And how did they propose to give back the nine other Israelis they killed

in that attack?

Redstone

[DistressedAmerican]

73. That is not the question on the table. Motivation is.

You claimed in one of your less logical moments that the attack had nothing to do with the Israeli prisoners. Clearly that is exactly what motivated it.

The rest is you changing the subject.

[Igel]

85. That says 'militants'.

Not 'Lebanese militants'. It's the suspected total. Almost all Palestinians.

Arabs, but not Lebanese Arabs.


On edit: The Hezbollah aim was to exchange those for the hundreds--or 3, depending on who you believe--Hezbollah prisoners plus as many Palestinians as possible.

Even when the death count was past 400 Lebanese, Nasrallah went on record saying that the death's were Israel's problem, and without an exchange of prisoners there could be no ceasefire. To back down would mean disgrace. Gives the phrase "death before dishonor" a whole new meaning.

[DistressedAmerican]

86. You are correct. It is a mix of nationalities. I Misspoke,

A mix of Lebanese, Palestinian, and others. All sharing one common opposition to Isreal and each sympathetic to the other.

However, I strongly doubt that Hezbollah does not count non-Lebanese prisoners amoung the agrieved.

[Jim__]

16. Of course you do.

If you KNOW the other guy can kick your ass, do you keep poking him until he gets pissed off enough to punch you?

The reason you do it was documented 40 or 50 years ago by Frantz Fanon. You rely on the stupidity of your more powerful enemy to over-react. Your technologically superior enemy usually doesn't have the pits to punch you. Instead he starts slaughtering innocent people revealing his true nature and radicalizing the population. The over-reaction and slaughter of innocents is the stupidest thing a powerful, and non-threatened oppenent can do.

[Redstone]

21. Or when he tries to punch you, you grab a woman and hold her between

you and him. That's some "pits" right there.

redstone

[Jim__]

40. Where is there any evidence that any Hezbollah was hiding in the

building that the Israelis leveled in Qana? It's just a stupid over-reaction that radicalizes the population.

[Redstone]

52. They park the rocket-launching trucks in the middle of towns, and

fire the rockets from there.

Defend those murderous motherfuckers as much as you want to.

Redstone

[Jim__]

84. So far, in this war, has Hezbollah killed 30 Israeli children?

The Israelis killed well over 30 children in this one attack. I've heard no one say Hezbollah militia was in the vicinity. Who are the murderous mother fuckers?

[INDIA]

3. Israel=Sovereign nation with the goal of existing in peace

Hezbollah=Stateless terrorist organization with the goal of killing innocent Israelis and wiping their country off the face of the earth.

I don't even know where to begin with the rest of your argument. Could you glorify Hezbollah a little more?

On edit: At least you had the balls to show your true colors. The rest of the anti-Israeli crowd is holding back their true feelings, IMO.

[EFerrari]

8. Israel: rogue state in charge of the biggest outdoor prison in the world

I don't even know where to begin with the rest of your argument.

Could you glorify rampant militarism a little more?

Please make me feel better for having my taxes paying for the murder of civilians.

:hi:

[in_cog_ni_to]

10. The pro-Hezbollah crowd...

aren't they something?

[DistressedAmerican]

Suppose you say that opposition to the Iraq war is supporting terrorists

too. If you have nothing to say that is not a disengenuous smear, feel free to post it to me.

Can you dispute the facts in the OP? An I incorrect? If not, what are you bitching about? Huh?

What else do you have?

[EFerrari]

20. Pro civilian murdering crowd

aren't they something?

[DistressedAmerican]

30. A Fine Rovian Rebranding Of The Opponent As Evil.

These folks not only agree with the neocons on this, they are right out of their playbook. Pretty messed up for so called liberals and progressives.

[EFerrari]

34. I'm glad you're back. Because most of us don't have your courage

or your mouth.

:hug:

:rofl:

[DistressedAmerican]

39. I just calls em as I sees em.

[EFerrari]

41. And in a very fine voice.

:)

[INDIA]

48. Why don't you two just get a room?

:puke:

[EFerrari]

50. Nice attempt to distract from the issue.

:hi:

[DistressedAmerican]

12. The day they became war criminals was the day I did not hold back anymore.

I have nothing but condemnation for war criminals. The should be marched out and shot.

You on the other hand keep defending this sick shit.

I did not glorify Hezbollah. I presented basic facts. If you do not like acts, sucks to be you.

If you think they are incorrect, show me where they are not accurate. The rest is just hot fucking air.

[chimpymustgo]

18. It truly is sick shit. Indefensible bullshit. The apologies, absurd.

Defending war criminals must be very hard work indeed.

[INDIA]

36. "I did not glorify Hezbollah. I presented basic facts."

"Hezbollah uses shitty rockets they make by hand in basements."

Yeah, if Iran and Syria are considered "basements." That's some FACT you got there. Did you forget to mention the rockets are loaded with ball bearings to kill and maim as many as possible. That they've been launching sophisticated anti-ship missiles? Is the theme song from "Le Miserable" playing in the background while the freedom fighters fight the evil Israeli empire?

"Israeli rocket and bomb attacks have killed hundreds over the past several weeks and thousands during the last such hostilities. Hezbollah rockets has killed 8 people in the entire five years before this began."

Would it make you feel better if more Israelis were dead? What the hell kind of argument is that? I got news for you, the Israeli death toll from all the terrorist action/Arab state attacks is in the tens of thousands. Israel has done nothing but get attacked since the very beginning.

"Israel holds between 8,500 and 10,000 Lebanese citizens. Many of those without charge since the 1980's."

Highly, highly debatable statistic. Most of those held, and I doubt it's that many, were guilty of carrying out terrorist attacks on Israel. If you aren't a legitimate state-sponsored military force and you still carry out armed attacks, you are a terrorist. You said "many" of those haven't been charged. How many is "many", 1,000? 100? 12?

"Israel occupied southern Lebanon for years. Hezbollah can barely cross the border for a short raid."

Yeah they did occupy Lebanon, and the buffer zone successfully protected N. Israel. When they pulled out, Hezbollah moved in and attacked HUNDREDS of times. The low Israeli body count is a testament to their lack of training, not their lack of trying.

Don't agree with me? Too bad, because just about every single Dem politician does.

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[INDIA]

46. I guess "the people" doesn't count

nearly every single Dem in congress. Probably pols you and I both voted for.

[EFerrari]

49. And that is supposed to be a virtue?

I'm sorry to be so cranky. My manners have been frayed to the last stitch.

But I'm as fucking tired as possible of poor brown people being slaughtered while everyone else tries to justify it.

Fuck that.

[breakaleg]

47. ~1000 held without charge...

Here's my source although I've read the same numbers at various sources on the net in the last few days.

"Among those imprisoned are 359
Palestinian children, 105 women, and over 9000 men, including 1000 "administrative detainees" being held without charge. Israeli military courts say that these people are terrorists, but many groups dispute this. "

http://ottawa.indymedia.ca/en/2006/07/2952.shtml

[DistressedAmerican]

53. Nice arguments.

"Hezbollah uses shitty rockets they make by hand in basements."

Yeah, if Iran and Syria are considered "basements." That's some FACT you got there. Did you forget to mention the rockets are loaded with ball bearings to kill and maim as many as possible. That they've been launching sophisticated anti-ship missiles? Is the theme song from "Le Miserable" playing in the background while the freedom fighters fight the evil Israeli empire?

How many of those "sophisticated" weapons do you think they have? IS it anywhere near even just the most recent shipment of munitions we are sending off to Israel to kill more Lebanese? How many of those ship missiles have been used? One. How many before Israel; began its slaughter? None. Are you arguing proportionality based on this BS? Really?

"Israeli rocket and bomb attacks have killed hundreds over the past several weeks and thousands during the last such hostilities. Hezbollah rockets has killed 8 people in the entire five years before this began."

Would it make you feel better if more Israelis were dead? What the hell kind of argument is that? I got news for you, the Israeli death toll from all the terrorist action/Arab state attacks is in the tens of thousands. Israel has done nothing but get attacked since the very beginning.

What kind of BS smear is that? It is interesting that you clearly prefer hundreds of dead Lebanese. I prefer neither be suffering. Nice fucking argument you have here. Smear and BS. Nice try but bullshit just the same

"Israel holds between 8,500 and 10,000 Lebanese citizens. Many of those without charge since the 1980's."

Highly, highly debatable statistic. Most of those held, and I doubt it's that many, were guilty of carrying out terrorist attacks on Israel. If you aren't a legitimate state-sponsored military force and you still carry out armed attacks, you are a terrorist. You said "many" of those haven't been charged. How many is "many", 1,000? 100? 12?

Go look the stat up. The link is on this very thread. It is not debatable. It is a fact. Funny how you put your "doubt" above looking at the fucking facts. Typical for the war crime defender crowd around here lately. I guess when the facts are not flattering it is easier to just ignore them. Now, let me ask you something, How many of those 8,500 to 10,000 are terrorists? How would you ever know when so many have never been charges with anything or tried for anything. I guess you support indefinite detentions at GITMO too. Same rules.

"Israel occupied southern Lebanon for years. Hezbollah can barely cross the border for a short raid."

Yeah they did occupy Lebanon, and the buffer zone successfully protected N. Israel. When they pulled out, Hezbollah moved in and attacked HUNDREDS of times. The low Israeli body count is a testament to their lack of training, not their lack of trying.

They slaughtered civilians en masse the first time and they are repeating that again. Call that buffering all you want. It is a war crime. Your semantics do not change that fact. Are you arguing that Hezbollah can invade Israel and set up a "buffer zone" if they wanted to? More BS.

Don't agree with me? Too bad, because just about every single Dem politician does.

With zionists just lined up to attack them as anti-semites for opposing clear war crimes, I wonder why. I see your pro-Israel lobby's power makes you really stroke it.

Most Dems voted to go into Iraq. A majority voted for the Patriot act. Did that make them right either time?

People that stroke neocons are themselves no better then the neocons that they stroke

[breakaleg]

15. Not to defend Hezbollah but...

In every news report I see it always refers to Hezbollah as being "considered to be a terrorist organization by the US and Israel". The world at large hasn't made that same determination.

While I agree the intentions of the military wing aren't good at all, Hezbollah as it stands today has gained a lot of support among the local people by providing for them after the last occupation by Israel. They helped them rebuild their country.

If Israel wanted peace, they wouldn't try to repeatedly incite a reaction out of their Arab neighbors.

[EFerrari]

24. Please don't try to inject reason into this flame war. Welcome

to DU.

We're usually much more boring than this.

:)

[breakaleg]

23. Not remotely proportional..

I am amazed that anyone can defend Israel's latest actions.

[DistressedAmerican]

31. WOW! Someone actually answering the question!

Welcome to DU!

[breakaleg]

32. did I do something wrong?

[EFerrari]

38. Welcome to DU, breakaleg

:hi:

[breakaleg]

42. thank-you! tough crowd though!

[EFerrari]

45. We're usually much more boring. But, war tends to amp us up

:shrug:

[Name removed]

37. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FILAM23]

51. Proportionality, like beauty , is in the eye of the beholder

In my thinking if you start shooting rockets into my
country, anything I do to make you stop is proportional.
Israel is fighting for their survival, they have shown
much restraint. If they did not have restraint the whole area
would be a radiactive waste land.

[breakaleg]

55. The world disagrees with you.

Destroying the innocent civilians of another country, instead of going after the people responsible, is not restraint, by any definition.

[EFerrari]

56. So, the world is supposed to be grateful that Israel and their US

enblers didn't over react WORSE than this?

:rofl:

/typin, spelling, everything

[DistressedAmerican]

59. No it is not. It is established in international law.

Way to openly endorse war crimes though.

Man the pro-Israel crowd gets sicker and sicker.

NUKE EM ALL! Moron.

[nolabels]

67. Israel is not fighting for it's survival

But one day soon, the way they are going, they will be :argh:

[breakaleg]

60. Israel states Hezbollah is targeting civilians in northern Israel....

Yes they are. However, their weapons are so poor that they point them south and hope they go there. What damage they inflict is by fluke or accident more than anything else. And Israel has defense systems in place to help lesson the blow.

Compare this to the precision guided missiles that Israel is using, courtesy of the US and how can this be called anything but one sided?

[WinkyDink]

74. Then I guess Hezbollah was pretty STUPID to provoke Israel.

[Euphen]

75. Why? It's the civilians that suffer, not Hezbollah.

Hezbollah will only emerge strengthened from this. And why should civilians suffer for Hezbollah's actions.

[DistressedAmerican]

78. Well I Guess Israel is pretty stupid provoking their attacks by holding

thousands hostage in Israel. They should stop doing that. :puke:

Nice rationalization for such baltant brutality. Sickening.

[bloom]

81. The women from Israel/Palestine

who come over to the US to educate people and promote peace (One women each who is Jewish, Muslim, and Christian) emphasize that typically - every year - many more Palestinians are killed by Israelis than vice-versa. And they know that our news is skewed - and that a lot of Americans do not know that.

For a long time - the Jewish deaths have gotten a lot more attention in the US media than do the Palestinian deaths. I expect in Europe - they have been getting something that is closer to real figures and the people are less likely to support Israel's killings and justify them - as if they are a necessary defense against the Palestinians.

At the forum where the women from Israel spoke - there were several young American Jewish people who found their message to be very hard to take. (This was about 3 years ago). They didn't want to accept the fact that Israel was more violent than the people who they had been taught were so "evil" and they didn't want to think about peace.

There is no question of proportionality if you think that your group is allowed to kill/kidnap/bomb people in the other group - but not vice-versa. There is also no possibilty of peace with an attitude like that, AFAIC.

[EFerrari]

82. There is no question of peace while some lives are more human.

There is no possibility of peace with an attitude like that.

[Tsiyu]

83. It's all about the power and the money, really

We all know that. A history of the world shows us that greed is the ends that justify the bitter means.

So people will continue to kill each other over money and water and land.

It's ridiculous.

The world produces more than enough food to feed the entire world but still millions are starving.

There are ways to resolve disputes which do not involve killing babies, but men are in love with their phallic bombs and women would rather write notes on those bombs than consider the old people and mothers and fathers and children they will destroy forever.


I read these Rapture posts, about the glee people take in the suffering of others simply because THEY PERSONALLY are going to have it so great in the afterlife, and they are the same as the Muslims who expect their 42 or 72 (or whatever figure the focus groups learned was tempting enough) virgins and their bliss in Allah because they strap a bomb to themselves and kill families. These are the same people as are in our current administration. The deaths of thousands of babies don't phase them as they count their loot and consider their power.

Humans are ignorant fucks who are hellbent on destroying the earth, and there is no logic or love or law that is able to stop them now.

I'm waiting for what's coming next. Those who cannot see what you are saying, DA, are the same ones who - next week in AMerica - will want to blow up every trailer park to solve the meth problem, blow up every housing project so the gangs will be destroyed.

And none of those self-serving idiots will ever realize that if we stopped using poorer and/or darker people to achieve our own prosperity - with no regard for the poorer and/or darker folk's standard of living - we could solve the meth problem and the gang problem and the hezbolla problem.

They will never see the greed in their own eyes, nor will they ever evaluate their part in all of this death.

Israel has taken its cues from us. We killed thousands upon thousands for something they bear no guilt over: 911.

America is Dr. Evil.

Israel is Mini Me.