South Florida short of skilled trade workers

[Herman Munster]

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/15150221.htm

he national average starting salary this summer for an undergraduate engineering major is $51,411. For humanities and social science majors, it's $31,260, according to the National Association of Colleges and Employers.

Compare that to an electrical apprentice at the local ABC Institute in Miami, who after their four-year program -- no other higher education -- can make anywhere from $38,000 to $45,000 a year, says Kennedy. Apprentices earn money throughout by attending class after work one or two nights a week. Training is typically paid for by employers or general contractors. An apprentice starts with no experience at $9.50 an hour. In four years, once becoming a journeyman, the pay doubles to $18.50 to $22 an hour. After completing the licensing requirements to become a master electrician, that can easily double again.

''If you're a master electrician and you're not making $80,000 a year, it's because you don't want to work,'' Kennedy said. The better pay and challenge of the job drew 24-year-old electrical apprentice Mike Storms to the industry. ''I had a whole bunch of crappy jobs, and finally, I thought, I really don't want to do that anymore,'' said Storms, who names retail and restaurant work as two of many jobs he had before electrical work.

Now, he makes $10.50 an hour as an entry-level apprentice. When his four-year ABC apprentice program, paid for by his employer, is finished, his salary will probably double. ``I see a lot of potential here.''

[MrSlayer]

1. Hmmm, maybe I should move down there.

As a master electrician apparently I can make the same money that I make now, except I'd be in Florida. I might have to look into that.

[CherokeeDem]

3. Check Out the Cost of Living In Miami

I just moved back to Lexington KY after 10 years in Miami and it is amazing how much cheaper it is to live here. Miami is great but before you decide to move there, compare your cost of living. Everything is extremely expensive there; housing, utilities, insurance are all over the top. It may be beautiful but unless you have been living in a major city you are in for a shock.

Too bad paradise is so costly!

[MrSlayer]

11. I'm in Philly now, can't be much worse there.

As far as cost of living.

[Herman Munster]

12. also

Florida has no state income tax. Coming from Philly, you'll probably come out ahead.

[tkmorris]

10. Read what you wrote again

As a master electrician you could make the same money you make now, but you'd be in South Florida.

Trust me. Stay where you are.

[Warpy]

2. I keep telling kids to look into skilled trades

rather than college. Most 4 year liberal arts degrees will slot lucky grads into middle management and keep them there. Kids who graduate from skilled trade programs will make more money out of the gate and have the potential to start their own businesses and achieve financial security.

Even engineering school is no longer a path to success. The average shelf life of an engineer in this country is 15 years, after which he either has to move into management or move into another field. Plus, more and more engineering is being outsourced to China and India.

It's certainly something to think of. Those of us who grew up in the working and middle classes can no longer afford to become gentlemen and gentlewomen via liberal arts degrees. It's down to survival now, and the skilled trades may be the best guarantee of that.

[datasuspect]

5. i believe you are correct

college is pretty much a waste of time for many people.

i studied (gasp) philosophy.

you'd think i was the scion of wealth rather than the son of a truck driver.

liberal arts education can make the world a more full place for you personally, but in the long run, i wish i would have done something a bit more practical.

[Herman Munster]

17. yeah

It IS a waste of money for lots of kids. They struggle in college and never finish and end up wasting lots and lots of money or graduate with a useless degree and are saddled with tens of thousands of dollars worth of debt.

IF you are going to college, go to a state school and get into as little debt as possible, and major in something practical that can get you a job. Take as many electives as you want in liberal arts and learn by reading books on your own time.

There is nothing I learned in most of my college classes I couldn't have learned by reading books on my own. Most of the intro classes in large universities consist of a grad student or inexperienced associate professor teaching to hundreds of students (some schools they play the classes online so a student never even has to step foot in the lecture hall) and all they do for the most part is regurgitate powerpoint slides. And tests consist of blind memorization and are multiple choice in classes that large.

Big fucking waste of money for lots of kids. No wonder many find out college isn't what they thought it was and drop out.

[skooooo]

19. sorry to see you feel that way...

I got a few graduate degrees in the humanities, and couldn't be happier. I'm not rich, but financially well enough off. Money isn't everything. Good healthcare and enough to do what you want is not so bad. And I love what I have learned from liberal arts.

[Warpy]

20. I went almost all the way through engineering school

and the bottom fell out of the job market and I decided I despised it anyway and walked away after 3 years. I didn't regret it.

Years later, I went into nursing. I told my appalled parents I couldn't see going into 4 years of debt for the privilege of making a woman's salary in a man's world. At least nursing was 2 years of the most intensive study I've ever confronted followed by licensure and a decent living. I could also work anywhere, a real plus when it came time for me to move.

In retrospect, it was exactly the correct decision.

Even my parents ended up admitting that one, especially when they needed a medical professional in the family to help them navigate their final years.

I will continue to try to convince kids to consider building trades plus a night school associate's in accounting as a way to starting and building their own companies. I honestly believe we have enought 4 year grads who haven't read anything more substantial than People since they left school. We can always use more plumbers and electricians and health care personnel.

[xmas74]

8. This is the trend.

I went to college right after high school and now I regret it. I wish I had looked into a trade instead. I'd be much better off paywise than I am now.

[Jackson Roykirk]

9. Tell it like it is, warpy...

...wish I'd learned to be a plumber! They're always needed and can't be outsourced!!! Maybe we need to revive the concept of public tech high schools. There's a tech school near me, and the kids that go through 4 years there come out doing very good work, but it seems this school is moving away from classic tech school stuff (construction trades, etc., )and moving into things like software design that can, and will, be outsourced. Plumbers, electricians, RNs and Nurse Assistants will always be needed!!

[newyawker99]

21. Hi Jackson Roykirk!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Solo_in_MD]

4. Its that kind of pay scales that add to to the bogus gender pay parity

issues.

Even though there are more women in undergraduate studies, men are getting the majority in technical degrees, which pay better in the marketplace. Women get the majority of liberal arts degrees which pay less in the marketplace. The vast majority of construction workers, including the specialties are men, and they make more than college grads with liberal arts degrees. Instant discrimination claims...something about market based wages being discriminatory.

I have a colleague who is married to a master electrician. He makes good money, but she does better and doesn't work full time. They coordinate schedules for child care. If women or principle child care providers need a well paying part time jobs, specialty trades are a great way to do it. You have to delay children until the training period is over, but then the money is excellent. There is also a forecast a serious need for more trades workers in 10 years when many of the incumbents start to retire.

[xmas74]

7. Exactly.

I'm a woman and I wish now that I had taken building trades classes in high school or at least have spent time looking over my options in the votech building. Even if I made less than my male counterparts I'd still be making more then most of the office jobs I've worked in.

[Solo_in_MD]

15. I took Lazarus Long at his word when it came rearing my daughters

- They can fix toilets
- Work on their cars
- Use hammers, saws, and power tools
- Grow plants
- Appreciate music and art
- Enjoy a good workout
- Shoot guns
- Defend themselves hand to hand
- Compute effectively
- Paint walls
- Sew
- Cook
- Learn from books
- Think critically and for themselves

We are raising incompetents in so many areas. What good is a gentlewoman or gentleman if they don't know to turn of the valve of a toilet that is overflowing, which is exactly what happened in my daughter's college apartment. 3 screaming clueless liberal arts majors and the geek who knew enough to turn off the water.

[xmas74]

18. The only one I couldn't do when I graduated from high school

(and still cannot do to this day) was shooting a gun. It was just never my thing but I can use a crossbow. (Helps when you have lots of redneck friends who think it's fun to get drunk and pretend to be "master" archers.)

Your list should apply to both women and men. I know too many women who cannot shut the water off or cannot find the fuse box in their homes and I know too many men who cannot make anything besides a tv dinner or cannot mend a simple tear in a shirt sleeve. Truthfully, life skills like this should be a mandatory high school course for everyone, no matter who you are or your social status.

[Why Syzygy]

13. I recently met a woman

ME, working for a very successful company after graduation 4 years ago. She is leaving engineering to enter massage therapy. Not really surprising, given some thought.

[xmas74]

6. This is a trend nationwide.

Parents have been telling their children to go to college, get a desk job, make a decent living. The problem is that entry level jobs w/ a degree are not paying as much as they once did yet most do not realize it. Parents are still adament that their children attend a university instead of opting for a training program where they might end up making more money. (A good example-my best friend has a masters in education. She works in special education for so-so wages. Her husband never graduated from high school and finally completed a GED a few years ago. He works in carpentry and, on average, brings home more than she does. And with his field they don't have to worry about paying back the large amount of college loans that they are paying for her job.)

I believe it was ABC that had a report last year about a lack of skilled labor in the US. They showed examples of different cities from all over the US. Small business owners spoke about not being able to hire enough skilled labors in many different fields-everything from landscaping to machinists to construction to even mortuary (yep, in some states it's a simple apprenticeship, with the only additional education involved is if you decide to embalm). Landscaping and machinist were some of the hardest hit. Landscapers showed salaries of those in the field for 10 years in the late 30's through mid 40's and machinists that had finished their journeyman were up in some areas in the early 50's, yet neither field has enough candidates entering. They stated that the average age of a machinist was in his early 50's and that in ten years the field could see problems with not having enough staff.

Another friend stated that she is trying to create an interest in skilled labor for her high school students, showing them the amount of training and time to train compared to salary. She said that her main problem is coming from the parents and not student interest. She has talked about numerous parents coming in to speak w/ her, stating that they won't have their child doing such-and-such work-labor is for "trashy" people only (actual wording).

I look back now and wish that I, as a woman, had been smart enough to become interested in a skilled labor field at the age of 18. The work is hard but honest and the pay is decent enough to support a family, compared to office jobs being offered in my area. If I had it to do over again I would have taken an auto mechanic or auto body course in high school, maybe expressed an interest in welding.

[Jackson Roykirk]

14. When I was in High school, girls weren't allowed...

...to take classes in wood-shop or metal work. Any school district trying that crap now would be sued to the skies, and rightfully so!!

Actually, whatever one chooses for a career, having some marketable skill in addition is a bonus.
And it helps to have some knowledge and experience with various power tools. I've got a neighbor who has picked up a bit of extra $$ by wielding a mean chain saw (on trees, that is!!)

[xmas74]

16. They were technically allowed when I was in school

(I graduated in the early 90's) but it just didn't happen, just like girls didn't try out for football at that time either. Then again, I was never a girl to play by the rules. I crossed a few lines back then and I should have just stepped it up a notch.

IMO, all high school students should have to take some sort of home repairs/improvements course, along with home ec (which was not required in my high school) and basic auto repair and maintenance. The final year of school should be dedicated to just that, instead of our rush now to fill out applications for colleges. I know too many people who can barely change out their own lightbulbs. Teach everyone the basics for how to run their own households and we'll all be better off in the long run.