Dean calls Iraqi PM an 'anti-Semite'

[tocqueville]

By BRIAN SKOLOFF, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 12 minutes ago

WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. - Democratic Party chairman Howard Dean on Wednesday called Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki an "anti-Semite" for failing to denounce Hezbollah for its attacks against Israel.

Al-Maliki has condemned Israel's offensive, prompting several Democrats to boycott his address to a joint meeting of Congress and others to criticize him. Dean's comments were the strongest to date.

"The Iraqi prime minister is an anti-Semite," the Democratic leader told a gathering of business leaders in Florida. "We don't need to spend $200 and $300 and $500 billion dollars bringing democracy to Iraq to turn it over to people who believe that Israel doesn't have a right to defend itself and who refuse to condemn Hezbollah."

On Tuesday, leading Senate Democrats said in a sharply worded letter that Al-Maliki's "failure to condemn Hezbollah's aggression and recognize Israel's right to defend itself raises serious questions about whether Iraq under your leadership can play a constructive role in resolving the current crisis and bringing stability to the Middle East."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060726/ap_on_re_us/iraq_dean

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. So if the Iraqi PM went on the 700 Club and said...

...nevermind.

[AlamoDemoc]

2. Unbelievable! I am speechless!!!

[The Magistrate]

3. Gov. Dean Generally Gets It Right, Sir

Both as a matter of fact, and as the setting of a useful line for political attack in the general election upcoming. This is a charge that will be useful in discrediting the Republican's attempts to portray their policies in Iraq as a succes the people of our country ought to endorse with their votes.

[Cha]

5. Yes, and "a useful line"

to counter those who try and portray repukes as the only party who cares about Israel. This is war in our Country, too, and Dean is learning what needs to be said..he's fighting the catapulting propaganda on it's own turf.

[Rose Siding]

6. Look where McCain's taking this already-

Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki has repeatedly refused to condemn Hezbollah for its role in initiating the Lebanon-Israel conflict. Yesterday, in a press conference with President Bush, he “criticized the ‘damage and destruction’ caused by Israeli attacks but said nothing on Hezbollah’s role.” Other Arab states, including Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and Egypt, have condemned Hezbollah for its role in initiating the conflict.

Sen. John McCain appeared on Fox this morning and falsely claimed that Maliki has “condemned Hezbollah.” McCain said that, as a result, Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) and others who have criticized Malaki for his position on Hezbollah are “not qualified to lead.”
...

the quote:
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN: Well, we’ve got a conflict going on in Iraq where the United States is fighting and doing everything that they can to help democracy evolve there. The Prime Minister of Iraq and others have condemned Hezbollah and say they do not support them. So, if you want to have our effort in Iraq impaired by this situation, go ahead, but I think the Democrats are proving again why they’re not qualified to lead.

http://thinkprogress.org/2006/07/26/mccain-hezbullah/

Let's get those Bush bastards

[The Magistrate]

15. Lies By The Reptile McCain, Ma'am

Are indeed a sign of desperation in the enemy camp.

[OzarkDem]

142. McCain has a problem with the truth

What unmitigated gall. Comes from the arrogance of knowing the news media won't call him on his lies.

[laura888]

31. He's completely lost my vote...

...and thousands of others.

Shame!

[The Magistrate]

38. He May Have Lost Your's, Ma'am

But on balance he has certainly gained votes for the Democratic Party in the upcoming Congressional elections.

This is a brilliant and professional stroke.

[chimpymustgo]

42. It's stupid, pandering, and unfair name-calling.

And normally I like Dean. Makes it even more disappointing. Mr. Truthteller. NOT.

[The Magistrate]

50. First, Ma'am, It Is Accurate: The Man Does Hate Jews

Second, what you are pleased to call pandering is actually courting the voting populace, a necessity for victory in a general election.

Third, it is in fact a very shrewdly chosen line: it identifies the enemy with something unpopular. Even the attacks it draws on him from certain quarters will be of benefit among the general populace....

[chimpymustgo]

62. What powerful gifts you have to see into his soul!

Taking a page out of Chimpy's book? You've looked into his heart?

No you haven't...and neither has Dr. Dean. The name-calling and decision to forego a path to peace is really disheartening.

[The Magistrate]

68. It Is Like Shooting Fish In A Barrel, Ma'am: No Great Art To It

He is a fundamentalist radical sponsored by the Iranian mullahs: it is part of the job description....

[chimpymustgo]

75. No...that would be your racist assumption.

And really there's no more to say. I'd just like to see people NOT GETTING THER LIMBS BLOWN OFF. And I'd like to see some of our so-called leaders take a courageous - yes, COURAGEOUS stand for PEACE.

[The Magistrate]

79. If You Want To Aall Me a Racist, Sir, it Will Get You Nowhere

It will certainly not trouble me in the slightest, nor will it alter my conclusions, drawn from awareness of fundamentalist Islamic propaganda lines and positions. For a fundamentalist radical supported by the Iranian mullahs, hating Jews is part of the job description.

[chimpymustgo]

86. As is hating Arabs. Those hands are drenched in blood.

nt

[The Magistrate]

88. Who Hates Arabs, Sir?

Persians, as a general rule, do not think highly of them....

[bigtree]

66. Hates jews? Isn't that simplistic to the point of inaccuracy?

Hasn't he outlined the areas in which he has a grievance against "the Jews"? I think reducing Israeli actions to "Jews" is wrong, but he has been more than specific about where he holds them in his blame.

Wouldn't Iraqis be correct in accusing administration figures like Wolfowitz, Perle, Armitage and other PNAC contributors of seeking to disrupt their country to benefit Israel and create a wedge of influence in the region for the projection of hegemony and power?

[The Magistrate]

76. No, Sir, It Is Not: It Is Simple To The Point Of A Bumper-Sticker

What Iraqus might think does not concern me in the slightest: what concerns me is the defeat of the Republican Congress this fall. This line is very useful towards that end, and has the benefit of being true enough to press clean to boot.

[bigtree]

85. I won't be surprised at all if our indifference about "what Iraqis think"

and the consequences of that, eclipses whatever benefit some think will accrue from their political mauevering.

[The Magistrate]

91. They Do Not Vote In Our Elections, Sir

Therefore there is little point to campaigning towards them....

[bigtree]

97. my life, their lives are not a campaign

I refuse to run mine like it is

[The Magistrate]

104. Gov. Dean's Job, Sir, Is Winning A Campaign

[bigtree]

116. I wish him well

His rhetoric doesn't wash with me. I noticed that you seemed to imply that there are millions who would support Democrats who would like Dean's words. I don't want to characterize you unfairly . . .

I think there better be some consideration given to how this issue may split the party in a way that causes some to rethink support for their respective representative because of the position they take on these issues. I don't think it's wise to be so strident in the assumption that this will be a plus for our party, despite the apparent majority who appear to be amenable to such an appeal.

[chimpymustgo]

98. Why you're in lockstep with PNAC, the neocons, Dick Morris!!

I'm looking for a party that believes in equality, justice and peace. I'm looking...

[The Magistrate]

103. There Is No End To My Sins, Sir

Why just this morning, my breakfast consisted of Dalmatian puppies, in a light curry over rice....

[chimpymustgo]

108. That's almost as disgusting as your war-mongering PNAC love.

And I'm a "ma'am" , for whatever it's worth to your bullshit courtliness.

[The Magistrate]

114. But They Taste So Good, Ma'am

The gamey flavor goes so well with the curry.

[chimpymustgo]

118. Excuse me - gotta go vomit.

You're a very sick man. I'm sorry.

[Swamp Rat]

130. LOL!

You are more tolerant than I thought. :D

[blonndee]

146. Holy shit, Magistrate!

You never cease to amuse me, even when I'm pissed that you disagree with me.

Well-played round, Sir. :rofl:

[The Magistrate]

151. Why, Ma'am

Will no one believe that I really do like puppies?

[Marie26]

206. LOL!

That made me laugh out loud for some reason. :rofl:

[MuseRider]

51. And inflammatory

not normally used as a way to peace.

[The Magistrate]

64. It Is Good For Democrats, Ma'am

If people are inflamed against the puppet regime the Republicans have installed in Baghdad. It is quite desireable that thr people in the country understand that the administration has put in power there a Jew-hating bigot, and has in fact created by U.S. military casualties and U.S. treasure the Islamic Republic of Iraq. It will not sit well with our people, that....

[MuseRider]

156. Frankly with all this death

I could not give one damn that it is good for democrats. I want the death to stop and for someone, anyone with the ability to broker an agreement to get over there and do it now. Good for democrats, how can you say that?

[Sparkly]

192. Good for Democrats in the ELECTIONS

I understand you want someone to broker peace -- we ALL do. But face it -- Republicans aren't going to do it.

First things first: it's about regime change in DC. There's nothing else we can really affect, no matter how deeply we may feel, or how hard we stamp our feet about it.

[The Magistrate]

194. Because My Leading Interest, Ma'am

Is the overthrow of the Republican majority in the national Legislature. All is simply grist for that mill.

[femrap]

80. And AIPAC will be happy and forthcoming

with $.

[SammyBlue]

140. Why is that?

Does Israel have a right to defend itself? Nothing of what Dr. Dean said seems to warrant "completely losing your vote" unless you believe what Hamas and HEzbollah does are a-okay? If so, don't write me back, because I don't want my response deleted or my account locked.

And as for the "thousands of others." We would never get the Hal Turner vote anyway. Who cares?

[Rose Siding]

153. Dawa, Maliki's party helped form the Lebanese Hizbollah

-according to Juan Cole:

snip>
The members of Congress also don't seem to realize that the Iraqi Dawa helped to form the Lebanese Hizbullah back in the early 1980s. The Dawa was in exile in Tehran, Damascus and Beirut and it formed a shadowy terror wing called, generically, Islamic Jihad. The IJ cell of the Dawa attacked the US and French embassies in Kuwait in 1983, in an operation probably directed by the Tehran branch, which was close to Khomeini.

My understanding is that Nuri al-Maliki was the bureau chief of the Dawa cell in Damascus in the 1980s. He must have been closely involved with the Iraqi Dawa in Beirut, which in turn was intimately involved in Hizbullah. I am not saying he himself did anything wrong. I don't know what he was doing in specific, other than trying to overthrow Saddam, which was heroic. But, did they really think he was going to condemn Hizbullah and take Israel's side?

And if he did, do they think that the Shiite religious parties that backed him would let him stay in office (they are the Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution in Iraq, the Islamic Dawa, and the Sadr Movement of Muqtada al-Sadr)?

Here is what I said the first time a Dawa Prime Minister was brought to power by US-sponsored elections, last year. I kept telling Americans that this was a mixed picture, not an unadulterated feel-good story, and I got nasty mail about raining on their parade. Now you see what I was talking about

http://www.juancole.com/2006/07/congress-expects-islamic-dawa-to.html

Both sides are screwing up, but check out the background of someone before you go to bat for them. Or were you already aware of Bush's puppet's history?

[madfloridian]

220. Good post, Rose.

I think too many are being too judgemental when not knowing much about it.

I tend to be that way, but I feel our Democrats need some space here to navigate through a rough time Bush has put them in.

[Name removed]

211. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Chico Man]

215. ?

[Rose Siding]

4. Here's some history on Maliki from Laura Rozen-

I don't see how the US ever supported this guy.

July 26, 2006
Iraqi prime minister Nouri al-Maliki and his Dawa party have deeper ties to the Hezbollah leadership than has surfaced in recent reporting on his visit to the White House, emails Mark Perry. "Maliki went to school with the Hezbollah leadership ... Hezbollah in mid 1980s worked to free 'the Dawa 17' -- arrested by Kuwait for a suicide bomb that killed three Americans in the US embassy in Kuwait. Now Dawa is the ruling party in Iraq and allied to the US and their leader visits the White House." According to news reports, Maliki headed the Dawa party's Jihad office in Damascus in the 1980s.

Some history on the connections between Dawa and Hezbollah here. "Following Hezbollah's 1983 strikes against the U.S. Embassy and the Marine barracks in Beirut, a closely related Shiite organization in Kuwait carried out a series of attacks -- including a truck bombing targeting the U.S. Embassy in Kuwait City. Kuwaiti authorities later arrested and convicted 17 Shia for involvement in that plot. This group became known as the 'Kuwaiti 17' or the 'Dawa 17.' Among its members was Mustafa Youssef Badreddin, a cousin and brother-in-law of senior Hezbollah operative Imad Mugniyah, who has been described alternately as the head of Hezbollah's security apparatus, as the group's chief of intelligence and as its chief of special operations. .... Demands for the freedom of the Dawa 17 became standard in Hezbollah's hijackings and other activities. "

This 1991 State Department presser with Richard Boucher on the Dawa 17 allegedly escaping to Lebanon during the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait is also interesting.

Posted by Laura at July 26, 2006 07:19 AM

http://www.warandpiece.com/blogdirs/004648.html

Now he'll only condemn Israel for the violence and not Hezbollah, when both are worthy of scorn. With his history, his refusal should be a red flag.

[MADem]

9. You'd think the US would have done a better job of stuffing the ballot box

But then, were any candidates who were not problematic left alive before election day?

[NNN0LHI]

11. I believe Bush shipped this crackpot in from Britain after the invasion nt

[laura888]

28. Is it "problematic" to choose a political side...

...that is known to be unpopular to those that elected you?

What gives the U.S. the right to manhandle a response out of him?

[MADem]

70. Not sure if you are obtuse or being wry.....

When Chalabi didn't work out, and the people didn't take to him as well as they'd hoped, they were fishing about for a better candidate who would toe the line but appear to be sufficiently independent. The leadership in Iraq know full well that they have "their hand in the dog's mouth" and if they don't play ball for the most part (the odd departure from the script is acceptable so long as it is just empty words, and scabbard waving, minus any sword to back it up), the dog will bite.

I mean, you actually think that those were "free and fair elections" over there???

[NNN0LHI]

7. Screw Dick Morris. I don't care what that toe sucking scumbag has to say

Oops. Wrong thread.

:hide:

Don

[oberliner]

8. if somebody disagrees with Dean on this...

can they be called a freeper?

"It is incredibly troubling that Howard Dean would seek to score cheap political points by attacking the democratically elected prime minister of Iraq."

-Repulican National Committee statement

source: article linked in OP

Because I know if you say this, you will:

"The first steps toward establishing peace must begin with the unconditional and immediate return of the kidnapped Israeli soldiers."

-Russ Feingold

source: http://feingold.senate.gov/~feingold/statements/06/07/20060714.htm

[MADem]

12. I think this is an issue where people across the political spectrum may

--not must, MAY--differ.

I think Israel has a right to defend herself. I also think Hizb'Allah are murderous thugs. I agree with Feingold that first thing, those soldiers who were snatched when their eight comrades were murdered should be returned. I'd like to see a multinational force along the border, and soon.

By the same token, I find the shelling of that UN outpost nothing short of appalling. I would like to hear Israel's explanation for it--did they believe that Hizb'Allah had overrun it? Did they think one of the UNIFIL officers was transmitting intelligence to Hizb'Allah from that locale? WHAT??? The longer they fail to offer some sort of factors in explanation, the worse it looks--almost like a LIBERTY incident.

[DRoseDARs]

16. I don't know. If one refuses to acknowledge Israel's willfull...

...bombing of innocent civilians to get at Hezbollah in Lebanon, can they be considered an anti-muslim bigot?

We can play this game ad naseum, but the issue isn't who said what or rather didn't, it's stopping this mess now. Obviously, Hezbollah isn't going to cooperate, so it's up to the international community to rein Israel in and forcibly remove Hezbollah. We've already seen how Israel is going to go about it: Bomb Lebanon into the stone age, its civilian population be damned.

[Emit]

74. I'm not sure I understand

Are you calling the Republican National Committee freepers?

[twiterpatted]

10. Dean is correct, the rest of you need to get a clue!

[Clark2008]

13. The Iraqi PM hates himself?

Considering Arabs are Semitic, too, he'd have to.

(Yes, more meaningless use of language considering the real fact that Arabs are descended from Semitic tribes, as well), to wit:

In linguistics and ethnology, Semitic (from the Biblical name "Shem") was first used to refer to a language family of largely Middle Eastern origin, now called the Semitic languages. This family includes the ancient and modern forms of Amharic, Arabic, Aramaic, Assyrian, Akkadian, Hebrew, Maltese, Syriac, Tigrinya, etc.

As language studies are interwoven with cultural studies, the term also came to describe the extended cultures and ethnicities, as well as the history of these varied peoples as associated by close geographic and linguistic distribution. The late 19th century term "anti-Semitism" came to be used in reference specifically to anti-Jewish sentiment, further complicating the understood meaning and boundaries of the term. Such usage, as well the advent of population genetics, against which other once-useful ethnic terms show a biasing imprecision, has led to much debate about its scope and usefulness in science.

The good doctor usually knows better than this. :(

[rockymountaindem]

19. Semities are all those people

Anti-Semitism, however, is a referance to Jews only.

[laura888]

26. Who cares?

Reference to "anti-semitism" should be as off-the-table as "anti-Arab."

Are U.S. leaders "anti-Arab" for failing to support various ME positions?

Please - enough already!

[Clark2008]

53. Thus my point about misuing the language.

It should never have been set out to mean "only Jews" because Semitic doesn't mean "only Jews."

Did you miss that part of the post?

[rockymountaindem]

55. Maybe it shouldn't have

but remember it was coined by a half-wit "Jew-Hater" (as they were known before "anti-Semite) in Germany in 1879. That's the way it is now.

[Clark2008]

67. Maybe that explains it, then.

I think, however, more than likely, it was because most Americans didn't know that much about Arabs when the phrase was coined and only affixed it to Jews.

I think a better word would be the one you used, "Jew-Hater." Cuts to the chase and isn't, technically, incorrect (of course, I wish there were no haters, but you understand my point).

But that's just the way I look at language. I think it should mean something from its roots, I suppose.

[laura888]

73. Who cares? This isn't the topic now, is it? n/t

[Clark2008]

241. I care. If you don't , don't comment. n/t

[The Magistrate]

101. But The Person Who Coined The Term, Ma'am

Quite specifically meant hatred of Jews by it: he thought that was a good thing that a nation could not be healthy without having in abundant supply. He did not, nor did much of anyone else until quite recently, think Arabs were even worth hating.

[KyuzoGator]

139. Aren't Arabs Semites, too? nt

[Behind the Aegis]

23. .

:eyes:

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Behind the Aegis]

205. I know our history...

...I was rolling my eyes at your lack of knowledge of language.

[smacky44]

14. I hope this isn't against DU rules but tonight i just have to say that the

Dems in Congress, to a person, have really disappointed me. I thought we were the party of peace but I guess not. No one wants to see "terrorists" rule this world but right now I am having a difficult time distinguishing who are the terrorists. If I made a list of terrorist nations, for sure the US and Israel would be at the top based on who is an occupying nation, who has and uses WMDs, and who really speaks the language of peace.

[laura888]

20. Exactly! Forcing someone to choose sides...

...is that promoting peace?

I think NOT!

[The Magistrate]

21. The Democrats In Congress, Ma'am

Are doing what professional politicians should do, which is take a stance that is both that of their Party, and widely popular in the country. If you think a general election in this country can be won on the line "The U.S. and Israel are the real terrorists!" you are sadly mistaken, to put it as mildly as possible....

[CuteNFuzzy]

25. totally agree with you, good post.

[NNN0LHI]

27. The Democrats have never been the party of peace

I don't know where you would have gotten that from?

You certainly didn't break any rules in your post as far as I can tell.

You have just as much right to express your opinion here as much as anyone else does.

And your opinion should be respected by others who may not agree with it.

The Dem's disappoint me sometimes too.

And I apologize for the belated welcome. But welcome to DU.

Don

[Little Star]

46. Having a hard time myself. I have actually had

the thought today that I need to stick my head back in the sand. I was a lot happier when I knew less about this situation. The more I learn the more I feel like I've fallen through the looking glass.

[LSK]

58. when did Dean become a member of Congress?

[NNN0LHI]

17. This is a lose, lose issue for the Republicans

If a Dem administration had just installed this stooge at the cost in lives and money this country has paid so far for this screw-up in Iraq the Republicans would be livid.

You all know that.

Don

[Crunchy Frog]

18. American political leaders may feel they have the obligation

to represent Israel's interests. They can't possibly believe that the leadership of an ostensibly sovereign Arab state has the same obligation.

This is genuinely one of the most ridiculous spectacles that I've ever seen coming from this party. And that's saying alot.

[laura888]

22. And why DO they feel that obligation? n/t

[Crunchy Frog]

33. I honestly don't know.

I'm truly at a loss at this point to understand this nation's politics. We're willing to give more leeway to Israel than we are willing to give to ourselves. Our own policies and political figure can be criticized, but Israel's can't? Not by us. Not by anyone else either. It's beyond me to figure out.:-(

[femrap]

119. I think this Israel attack on Lebanon has been planned for

a while now. It's all part of the US and Israel's World Chess Game of War. Our sadistic regime can live vicariously thru the Israelis military. For some reason(s), our country allows Israel to be hyper-military. Is it the Fundies who love Israel cuz they want Jesus to return? Is it because of the Holocaust and we understand some weird need for revenge?

I do know that AIPAC is a very strong lobby with tons of money and a huge propaganda machine. If it doesn't want someone elected, he/she will not be elected. And we give Israel shitloads of money...more than anyone for military goods.

Or is this war some sort of Bildenberg master-minded event that enables the Ultra Wealthy to play both sides of the war so to make so much money they eventually choke on it? It looks like a group of overly inter-bred rich folks with over developed sadistic tendencies are ready to destroy the whole nine yards. Can we bring out the straight jackets and lock them all up in a big castle somewhere....The Hague?

I am beginning to think that Israel is going to be our one and only Ally.

[MADem]

203. It could have something to do with the fact that, warts and all, they are

the only REAL, no shit, no kidding, knock down, drag out, DEMOCRACY in that end of the world.

Don't give me Turkey (sitting as they are at the crossroads between the Middle East and the Europeans and Russkies)--the military can take over any time the government gets too lefty. And they DO...they did it not too many years back.

Don't give me Lebanon--look at the names of the ministers, and look at them twenty, thirty years ago--they're INHERITED positions. That's a place where connections determine who goes on the ballot...and the names never seem to change.

All those Arab states, loaded with assorted "royalty" that won their titles with blades and guns, aided and abetted by the UK, France, and even us.

It gets no better as you cross into the African continent...Egypt is a damn dictatorship with a democratic varnish. Libya? How often does that leadership change...never!

Israel is a rare, REAL Democracy in a sea of warlords, militias, Emirs, Sheiks, Kings and Princes. They are certainly not perfect, but they know how to run elections, and the parties take no prisoners in pushing their platforms. They're often forced to compromise to form a government. And they do.

[Chulanowa]

214. South Africa was a democracy in 1978, too

"Democracy" does not always mean "the good guy", no matter how much Reagan you swallowed in the '80's.

[MADem]

217. Oh, please!!! They let the white folks vote, so that is a democracy to

you?? They took all their black, colored, and Indian populations, and segregated them, and denied them a vote....and you actually can say that is a democracy?

http://upload.wikimedia.org.nyud.net:8090/wikipedia/en/7/7c/BAHA-apartheid-signage.jpg

They weren't a democracy any more than George Bush is Mister Universe. Saddam got ninety nine percent of the vote, too!

[Chulanowa]

239. Thank you for realizing the point I was making.

Israel is an oppressive apartheid state. Just because it's a "Democracy" on technicality does not mean they're "good guys", much less that they should have our immediate support just because of that fact.

I assumed that point was clearly inferrable from what I said. I'll be sure to make generous use of the :sarcasm" tag for your benefit from now on.

[MADem]

240. Israel is morphing into TWO STATES--Israel and Palestine

The occupants of said TWO STATES do NOT want to live under ONE government, as they've managed to do in reconciled SA.

They HAVE two governments--one is clearly stronger than the other, but two governments DO exist. Show me the government of the blacks, coloreds, and Indians in South Africa??? You can't, because there wasn't one--they had no representatives, no ambassadors, no seat at the UN, no voice on the international stage, save interested human rights workers.

In Israel-Palestine, each wants THEIR government to be the one to hold sway.

They are arguing over REAL ESTATE....so your analogy does not fly. And had you used the :sarcasm: thing, you would have looked a bit unschooled.

[Chulanowa]

244. I never said Israel was exactly like South Africa

Only that the two have quite a lot of similarities. The Palestinian authority is a "government" like the Eyak tribal council here in Cordova is a "government". No power to do squat, it even has to ask the more powerful government for permission to enact its laws on the people it's supposedly governing.

Additionally, Palestine is not a state, even though I think we can agree that it should be.

[MADem]

246. Uh, yeah, you did...if not flat-out SAY it, infer it

You suggested that Israel was a "bad" democracy, like South Africa. I countered that the argument wasn't valid because Israel-Palestine is two governments, one a mature nation, the other an 'authority' enroute to statehood, arguing over land, while South Africa was one entity, one crappy government, with all the black folk shoved into concentration camps.

They Eyak tribal council doesn't have a seat at the UN. They're hardly equivalent.

The Palestinian issue IS an important one, but it is separate from the matter of the incursions by HizbAllah across the Jordanian border. There's a tendency to lump, and it's a mistake. Most Palestinians think those fundamental shi'as are, to put it kindly, batshit crazy.

[pyro858]

24. When Israel is involved, politicians and the media

lose all sense of reality. I'm not sure why they support Israel blindly like they do, but it is rather pathetic.

[laura888]

39. Absolutely pathetic. History books will not look favorably on them. n/t

[ruggerson]

29. Glad Howard is on top of his game

Let's see.

So far it's the Hezpologists at DU vs. Dean, Kerry, Boxer, Feingold and the rest of the progressive Democratic leaders.

Wonder which side is the side to be on?

Hmmmmm.

[laura888]

32. Follow the money n/t

[ruggerson]

36. Yeah we know how those Jewish bankers run things don't we?

:sarcasm:

[CuteNFuzzy]

40. who said anything about Jewish bankers?

[laura888]

41. ummm....

Bankers?

What are you talking about?

[Crunchy Frog]

49. A cutesy way of accusing you of anti-semitism.

I'm getting sick of it.

[High Plains]

44. Tell me about AIPAC, will you?

[SammyBlue]

141. It's a strawman that DU members like to pull out to attack American-Israel

relations.

What they don't understand is 85% of AIPAC are college students, members of University Chabads and Hillels who believe Israel needs to be protected.

You know, how dare the whipping boy of the world for the past 2000 years have a PAC that has money and some political clout. Our place is in the back of the bus. Or, as Canada put it in 1938 when asked how many Holocaust refugees it would take as they fled Germany: "Zero is too many."

I've been to six of their conferences. Very informative, very passionate and very reaffirming.

[Anarcho-Socialist]

235. Can you elaborate on that vague comment?

[CuteNFuzzy]

37. wish I could see things that black & white

"Hezpologists at DU vs. Dean, Kerry, Boxer, Feingold and the rest of the progressive Democratic leaders."

[LittleClarkie]

43. The side to be on? Because all the cool kids are there?

Sorry, but among reasons to take a side one way or the other, that's pretty weak. Peer pressure?

[ruggerson]

69. Guess the sarcasm was lost on you

[LittleClarkie]

134. Did you sarcastically state that most of the Dem leadership was

on the side of Israel? Aren't they?

[ruggerson]

143. No, the sarcasm

was how tough a choice it is (sarcasm)to hear and understand the views of responsible adults, many of whom have spent their entire careers dealing with the diplomatic intricacies and nuances of this issue, versus a crowd who thinks it's the "cool", ultra leftwing hip thing to support the palestinian, syrian and iranian enabled terrrorist groups.

[Don Claybrook]

183. I'll tell you what, Ruggerson

I will stand all by my goddamned self if I have to because I'm not trying to be on the side that is ahead, and I'm not trying to jump on whatever bandwagon you're pushing. I want to be on the side that's against the murder and murder and more murder and misery. And yeah, I always liked Barbara Boxer and Feingold. Dean was my first choice for President (remember the Rude Pundit's 'Howard Dean will fuck your shit up'?). But you know what? I'll get used to the lonliness and I'll be able to live with myself. Others can play the political calculus game. I will say I think it's somewhere beneath pathetic to entreat people to go against their own morals just to fit in with some pre-conceived idea of who is progressive and who isn't.

People and their statements can and do change, but wrong is still wrong, no matter who denies it. I'll stand with principle and let you have your fun with worshiping the cult of personality.

[CuteNFuzzy]

30. I must have missed

where Dean denounced Israel's crimes

Has anyone seen that?

[chimpymustgo]

35. That's illegal under the Patriot Act, I think.

Sorry to see our straight-talking Chairman toe the AIPAC line.

[AlamoDemoc]

34. In this case, Howard Dean looks as AIPAC buffoon...

....but that is not surprising, because our entire political system is a sham when it comes to our full-fledged support of one rogue state in the Middle East.

[The Magistrate]

45. What He Looks Like, Sir, Is A Skilled Politician

Enunciating the view most widely held in our country, and in a way that brings discredit on the opposition, for having sponsored a figure who speaks in a way so unpopular with the people of our country, and put him into power with the blood of out young men and women.

"Can't nobody here play this game?"

[laura888]

47. "...view most widely held in our country"

Can you back that up, sir?

[CuteNFuzzy]

52. good point

[Name removed]

71. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CuteNFuzzy]

48. Excuse me Magistrate, you seem informed

Do you know if Dean has denounced Israel's current aggression in Lebanon?

[The Magistrate]

57. It Would Be Best If He Did Not, Sir

Certainly not in those terms.

The point of the exercise, Sir, is not to demonstrate fairness or to say things that only a very small proportion of the people will applaud. The point is to say things that will appeal to a great many people in this country and influence them to cast their votes for a Democratic candidate in a few months. Statements that Israel should employ restraint, support for a cease-fire if Hezbollah releases captives, and that sort of thing, will do quite well in the situation. But round denunciations of "Israeli aggression" are exactly what the enemy would most love to hear from Democratic politicians. Unfortunately, there will probably be one or two foolsih enough to gratify that desire.

[laura888]

65. I think most politicans care more about what their constituents...

...think, rather than what a possible "enemy" might think.

Who IS the enemy, BTW?

[The Magistrate]

83. Republicans, Ma'am

This is, after all, Democratic Underground....

[laura888]

89. The current round of Democrats do not represent us, sir

Hence, their enemy is not ours.

[The Magistrate]

93. They Represent Me, Ma'am, And Millions Of Others

My chief political enemy is the Republican Party, reduced to a creature of reactionary fundamentalists and thieving "free-marketeers".

Who or what is your enemy, Ma'am?

[laura888]

112. Oppressors

In whatever form.

[CuteNFuzzy]

115. If Dean has not denounced Israel's crimes

then he is a hypocrite

[The Magistrate]

148. Not Much Of A Charge Against A Political Professional, Sir

People who cannot manage a bit of it will never go far in the trade....

"Sincerity is the important thing: when you can fake that, you've got it made."

[CuteNFuzzy]

167. You acknowledge the truth of the statement then?

[The Magistrate]

186. To Dismiss Something, Sir, As Unimportant And Beside The Point

Does not really count as acknowledging it to be true. It is not necessary to proceed to the question of truth or falsity when a thing is of no consequence. It would be of no more consequence if true than it would be if false.

[CuteNFuzzy]

188. Then why avoid answering directly?

If it is of no consequence

[Name removed]

131. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AlamoDemoc]

117. Sir, Dr. Dean is not a fool he knows his audience..

....but we all know that most of the democratic leadership is not suppose to criticize Israel, but use this current "genocide" in Lebanon as a back-door entrance to criticize US foreign policy in the region. That is what the DNC is trying to achieve here.

[The Magistrate]

133. As You Say, Sir

The object of the exercise is to discredit the enemy's activities in the region, and from as many directions at once as can be contrived.

Politics is like music, in the sense that the silences are often more important than the notes or words....

[AlamoDemoc]

137. I think it is rather deceitful and useless politicking

[The Magistrate]

144. Then There, Sir, We Would Have To Differ

It strikes me as useful, and in political life, deceitful is more a term of praise than otherwise....

[AlamoDemoc]

165. ..."deceitful is more a term of praise than otherwise...."

Thank you. You have answered my question, sir.

[rman]

232. Machiavellian as usual

[The Magistrate]

233. Thank You, Sir: He Was A Very Clear-Eyed Fellow

"The man who would be virtuous in all things necessarily comes to grief among the many who are not virtuous."

[rman]

242. He was also a-moral, and one of the spiritual fathers

of neocon thinking.

[LSK]

56. this thread demonstrates who knee-jerks and who reads the whole story

Paragraph 3:

"We don't need to spend $200 and $300 and $500 billion dollars bringing democracy to
Iraq to turn it over to people who believe that Israel doesn't have a right to defend itself and who refuse to condemn Hezbollah."

I know its hard work reading 3 PARAGRAPHS but sometimes you should try to.

[eridani]

230. Why buy into this bullshit thug talking point--

--that we are in Iraq to bring democracy? Any idiot can see that we are there to make a permanent subjugated colony of the place and control its resources. Oh, and to enrich the cheerleaders for mass murder who are making big piles of money off of the war.

[WildEyedLiberal]

238. Kneejerking is the DU way!

Methinks you expect too much.

[High Plains]

59. Yet another reason to hold my nose as I vote Democratic...or not.

America and Israel are waging joint war on the Arab/Muslim world. American bombs are falling from Afghanistan to Iraq to Lebanon to Palestine. This is a foreign policy disaster of historic proportions that could haunt us for decades to come. And the root of the problem is that festering bit of contested territory, the Holy Land. There must be a JUST PEACE for the Israelis and Palestinians if we are to halt this madness, and one-sided support for Israel does not help. The Democrats should take the lead in a SMART policy, not just more macho posturing for a policy that is "tough" but disastrous.

[laura888]

61. Very well written post, High Plains. Kudos! n/t

[High Plains]

81. Thanks. This is like watching a trainwreck in slow motion.

We will be haunted by the consequences of these policies for years to come, I fear.

[laura888]

82. You have no idea how much I agree with you.

I am fearful, also.

[Marie26]

60. Stunning

It's one thing to say you support Israel's actions. Fine. It's quite another for Dean to condemn the Iraqi PM for not supporting Israel's actions enough, call him names & then threaten to withdraw any financial support. That's just awful. First, the Iraqi PM is an elected leader, and is supposed to represent IRAQ'S interests, not the US's. It is beyond unfair for US politicians to keep draggin him into this Israel/Lebanon thing when his main purpose is to just stop 100 Iraqis from dying each day. Second, the financial support should be contingent upon Iraq's security situation, not whether we like a particular leader's statements. I guess we only like free speech if they say what we want them to say. They're trying to make him into a puppet that will spout the US line on all matters.

[LSK]

63. i just saw a GOP strategist say THE SAME THING

:shrug:

[Marie26]

72. It really bugs me.

Who are we to tell him what to say? Wasn't the whole point of this to have an ind. democracy where Iraqis have freedom of speech? IMO, it's borderline blackmail. The Iraqi PM is here basically begging for more US troops to stop the massacre of civilians in Baghdad. But we'll wag our finger at him & say "no money until you say what we want you to say." So much for democracy. And they say he's causing instablity? The SURE way to path to destabilization in Iraq is if the PM is seen as a puppet of the American gov. His integrity & independence is one of the few things that gives legitimacy to his government.

[laura888]

77. "No money until you say what we want you to say"

Exactly!

Those who denounce this guy for this one issue do not really believe in democracy!

[NNN0LHI]

100. Anyone thinking the Iraq government is a democracy is living in la la land

Iraq is an occupied country with foreign armed to the teeth combat troops running the entire show. That is what Iraq is.

Just because the Republicans keep saying they have brought democracy to Iraq that doesn't make it so.

Don

[laura888]

109. So U.S. leaders can go ahead and treat it like a puppet state? n/t

[NNN0LHI]

120. Yes because it is a government being run by a puppet

Maliki is a classic example of a puppet. Wouldn't surprise me if when someone looks up the definition for puppet in the future it will say "Maliki."

What should we be calling this stooge? Your Excellency or something?

Don

[Marie26]

149. Maliki is not a puppet

That's the problem.

[NNN0LHI]

159. Oh, OK n/t

[Fozzledick]

182. Maliki is a Quisling!

I think the naming rights for puppet-of-foreign-invaders are already taken.

[Marie26]

123. Then we should just go ahead

and declare Chalabi the King & be done w/it.

[Marie26]

124. ,,,

[MADem]

201. They've "bought" *Democracy* to Iraq

And you know how things are over there, give it a few weeks, and you'll find it for sale in a back alley in the bazaar!!!!

[femrap]

121. That's what my boss says to me

everyday...'no $ until you say what we want you to say.'

I think Dean was being sly and playing the political game with his speech today. And so was Pelosi and the four others. Dems need votes in November and campaign $, too. This is Politics. Hopefully, when the Dems take the House and the Senate, we can move toward Peace....but don't think that there aren't hawk Dems out there...the DLC in particular.

[laura888]

127. Nope. Now's the time to show their colors.

Those who voted for the Iraq war are now deemed useless.

[LSK]

78. you totally missed Deans point

Why should we have invaded Iraq if we are just going to have another anti-American regime.

Please read paragraph 3 of the article.

[laura888]

84. He's saying it was a waste of money if we can't turn Iraq into a puppet...

...state.

And Dean is for democracy?

I think NOT!

[LSK]

87. which is a dig at the whole reason to invade Iraq in the 1st place

If you buy into the whole Iraq being part of the "War on Terror" BS and that democracy is the answer to everything.

[Marie26]

90. I did read paragraph 3 of the article

Thanks. I'm not talking about this from a US point of view, I'm talking about it from an Iraqi point of view. Dean might've only been trying to knock the Iraqi war, but he's really knocking the democratically elected government of Iraq for not reflecting US perspective. Well guess what? A real Iraqi democracy isn't going to reflect the US perspective. Why should it? Iraq is over 50% Shiite Muslim, the same as Hezbollah. As Iraq's representative, the PM has to be careful not to alienate the majority of his country by endorsing Israel's offensive. He's got to represent his constituents, not the US position. ANY democracy in Iraq will be less pro-Israel than the US - that's simply the ethnic & religious heritage of the country. Either we can accept that, or we can be honest & say we don't really want a democracy in Iraq.

[laura888]

92. Exactly! Taking a dig at the reasons for the Iraq War in this...

...back door manner is cowardly.

[LSK]

99. your talking about the guy who was anti-Iraq war before the war

Dean cowardly???

[LSK]

96. wasnt it Dean who said we are not safer with Saddam out of power?

The Bushies have been going around saying how Democracy solves everything. Isnt that the only thing that they talk about when it comes to Iraq nowadays??? Somehow if Iraq is a democracy, then it will no longer be a threat. That is a Republican talking point.

But the reality is that Iran, Lebonan, the Palestians, Venezuela all elected their leaders and yet the Bushies label them as "evil".

I really think Dean is taking a political dig at the Bush agenda here.

[Marie26]

106. In a backdoor way

by attacking the Iraqi PM. If he wants to take digs at the Bush agenda, he should do so directly, not by tearing down the Iraqi PM. Obviously, a democratic Iraq could be a threat - especially if a fundamentalist regime comes to power. That's why it's important to support this moderate Iraqi PM - instead of putting him in the impossible position of being considered either a patsy or an enemy. He cares about saving his people - let him do that instead of pressing him for answers on this Israel/Lebanon conflict that his country is not even involved in. If Dean's taking shots at the Bush's Adms. past actions by attacking the weakened Iraqi PM, that's pretty lame.

[MADem]

200. IRAN elected their leaders?????????

:rofl: :rofl:

They elected a guy after the AYATULLAHS axed all the GOOD candidates off the ballot!!!!!!!! The bastards who got in actually ***ARE*** EVIL!!!!

That doesn't mean that Monkeyboy should attack the country, but those aren't freedom fighters and heroic characters running that joint--they're BASTARDS...evil, rotten, wimmen-opressing, gay-folk death-sentencing, adultery-stoning, pregnant-out-of-wedlock executing, BASTARDS.

Read up before you make broadbrush claims like that; it impacts your credibility....here, let me start you off with a link:

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2005/06/12/iran11114.htm

In a 17-page briefing paper, “Access Denied: Iran’s Exclusionary Elections,” Human Rights Watch details how election laws prevent candidates outside the ruling elite from running for high public office. Iran’s Guardian Council, an unelected body of 12 Sh`ia Muslim clerics and religious jurists, had interpreted these laws to exclude all women as well as all candidates whose views are critical of the current leadership.

“Iran’s elections for all practical purposes are pre-cooked,” said Joe Stork, deputy director of Human Rights Watch’s Middle East Division. “The Guardian Council appoints a few candidates, and then Iranians get to choose from this very restricted list.”

That's pretty damn funny... :rofl:

Oh, and this government is made of of the clowns who fund and provide spiritual support and guidance, to say nothing of Revolutionary Guard military leaders (many who have been killed in the last few days), to the Hizb'Allah war against Israel that they have launched from Lebanon.

[Freddie Stubbs]

237. There are some things monst Americans agree on, regardless of party

This appears to be one of them.

[Rose Siding]

164. You've mischaracterized what Dean said

He criticized Maliki, Dawa party member, for failing to denounce Hezbollah, *not* for "not supporting Israel's actions enough".

I'll guess you are aware of the puppet Maliki's past, to have taken his side?

[fujiyama]

94. LOL

Dean gets attacked regardless of what he says.

A few years ago, he advocated the US being an honest broker. He had Lieberman and the rest of congress attacking him like crazy.

Now he says this and the extreme left (and those neocons that support whichever Iraqi puppet is in charge) attack him.

Personally, I think accusing him of being Anti-Semitic is harsh and I'm not completely sure I believe it. I'm sure the Iraqi PM is well aware that if he doesn't say the right thing (which means condemning Israel) he may be assassinated. Of course condemning Hezbollah may just as well be a suicidal statement, considering Hezbollah is Shiite and the majority of Iraqis are Shiite.

Either way, I don't view this as particularly meaningful. Dean isn't an elected official at this point, and his main function is raising money and keeping party morale. And considering he was in West Palm Beach, speaking to a group of Dems (likely including a large number of Jewish retirees), I really don't know how anyone can be surprised by what he said.

[madfloridian]

95. All of our Democrats are doing the same thing.

There must be a reason. I don't agree, but I think Dean is saying that after all the money we spent we now have a government we put in Iraq that is against Israel and supportive of Hezbollah.

We supposedly went there to get a friendly government, and we did not get that.

Thus Bush's policy has failed.

All the Democrats are doing this, so I guess you will have to vote all of them out.

It sure puts the Republicans in the position of defending having an Iraqi leader who criticizes Israel...after all their talk and bluster.

1 2 3, everyone above leave the party now. Go to the Republicans who will love and cherish you. Bye bye.

[in_cog_ni_to]

102. OMG....the darling of the Progressives tells it like it is! LOL!

:rofl::rofl: GO Howard. :thumbsup: The DNC just secured a donation from me!

[madfloridian]

105. Poor Howard, poor Democrats. Remember the letter from 2003?

That letter put the fear of all things Israel into Howard Dean after he advocated fairness. So he is damned if he doesn't bow to Israel, and we damn them all if they do.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
September 10, 2003

The Honorable Howard Dean
P.O. Box 1228
Burlington, VT 05402

Dear Governor Dean:

We are writing to respond to your comments on the Middle East at a recent
campaign event and in Tuesday's candidate debate and explain why we believe
it is wrong to say the U.S. should "not take sides" in the
Israeli-Palestinian dispute.

American foreign policy has been - and must continue to be - based on
unequivocal support for Israel's right to exist and to be free from terror.
The Palestinians have at best been ambivalent about their willingness to
accept Israel's existence and from Yasir Arafat on down they have promoted
or acquiesced in the use of terrorism as a tactic in their struggle. It is
unacceptable for the U.S. to be "evenhanded" on these fundamental issues.

All of us want a genuine peace process to succeed, and all of us accept the
legitimacy of a Palestinian state once the Palestinian leadership and people
recognize Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state and not only renounce
the use of violence but at last take action to dismantle the terrorist
infrastructure inside the Palestinian Authority. Time and time again, the
Israeli people have shown their willingness to take risks for peace. But
they will only do so with the knowledge that U.S. support for Israel will
not waver.

It is important for America to help facilitate a peaceful resolution of the
conflict, but in playing this role we must be true to our values and make
sure that all parties clearly understand our policies. This is not a time to
be sending mixed messages; on the contrary, in these difficult times we must
reaffirm our unyielding commitment to Israel's survival and raise our voices
against all forms of terrorism and incitement.

Sincerely,

Howard L. Berman
Nancy Pelosi
Robert Matsui
Steny Hoyer
Martin Frost
Nita Lowey
Tom Lantos
Edward Markey
Chet Edwards
Ben Cardin
Steve Rothman
Steve Israel
Gary Ackerman
Barney Frank
Rahn Emanuel
Adam Smith
Anthony Weiner
Chris Bell
Adam Schiff
Hilda Solis
Robert Menendez
Shelley Berkley
Robert Andrews
Joseph Crowley
Jose Serrano
John Larson
Ellen Tauscher
Dennis Cardoza
Patrick Kennedy
Linda Sanchez
Harold Ford Jr.
Brad Sherman
C.A. Dutch Ruppersberger
Alcee Hastings


http://www.house.gov/berman/letter_new.html

[WildEyedLiberal]

107. Oh no, which sacred cow will DU have to topple?

Will Howard Dean be subjected to the same jeers, smears, and mockery that other Democrats have been through? Or will DU's double standard brigade win out in the end and make an exception for Dean's support of Israel?

Stay tuned... :popcorn:

For the record, the only thing about Dean's comment that bothers me is calling Iraq's PM an "anti-Semite." My problem lies not with Dean but with those who will, without fail, demonstrate that they are willing to excuse comments made by him or certain other "netroots" darlings that they would condemn if spoken by any other Democrat.

[madfloridian]

110. Oh, stop. You are gleeful, and that is sad.

It is just sad to be gleeful that any of our Democrats are put in this position.

You have such distaste for everyone here. You really do.

Sad.

[WildEyedLiberal]

209. Why, my dear, madfloridian, I was not at all referring to you

Nor was I expressing disdain for Dean.

No, my disdain I reserve for those who have repeatedly and loudly condemned every other Democrat for their views on Israel, yet who somehow manage to rah-rah for Dean's statement even though his opinion is every bit as pro-Israel as any other Dem. Hypocrisy disgusts me and if someone is going to call other Democrats "cowards" and "warmongers" and "AIPAC tools" yet come into this thread and cheer Dean on, I am going to call them out on their outrageous double standard.

I have not, however, seen you post anything derogatory about any other Democrat's statements on Israel, so you can calm down. I was not referring to you. It is fascinating to me that you ALWAYS assume it's about you, when, in reality, it's not.

[madfloridian]

221. yeh, it that's darn paranoia kicking in.

the one I get accused of having.

No, you are right. I have not been critical of any of them at all. They have to be careful.

But I think a lot of what is going on is genuine concern for others who are with home, food and water.

[WildEyedLiberal]

234. It's a tragic situation.

I don't approve of Israel's tactics but I support their right to exist and defend themselves from Hezbollah. I understand why the Dem politicians are saying the things they are saying. And make no mistake, Hezbollah is a wicked terrorist organization. But nevertheless many innocent lives are being lost in Lebanon who have nothing to do with Hezbollah and it's a tragedy. But I don't blame any Democrat for what they are saying about the situation, because it's such a political minefield and it's not like anything Dean or Kerry or anyone says is actually going to affect how Bush will handle the situation, so all we can really do is sit on the sidelines and watch the whole macabre theater unfold. :( Kerry is taking a lot of crap from the right for his statement that if he were president, this never would have happened, but you know what? He's right. You can bet the first thing any Dem president (with the notable exception of Lieberman) would have done is call for an immediate diplomatic conference to hammer out a peace deal. Bush just seems to think it's amusing to watch shit blow up on teevee.

[ruggerson]

111. word

n/t

[madfloridian]

113. He tried once. I am sad our Democrats are doing this, but he tried.

September 10, 2003

The Honorable Howard Dean
P.O. Box 1228
Burlington, VT 05402

Dear Governor Dean:

We are writing to respond to your comments on the Middle East at a recent
campaign event and in Tuesday's candidate debate and explain why we believe
it is wrong to say the U.S. should "not take sides" in the
Israeli-Palestinian dispute.

American foreign policy has been - and must continue to be - based on
unequivocal support for Israel's right to exist and to be free from terror.
The Palestinians have at best been ambivalent about their willingness to
accept Israel's existence and from Yasir Arafat on down they have promoted
or acquiesced in the use of terrorism as a tactic in their struggle. It is
unacceptable for the U.S. to be "evenhanded" on these fundamental issues.

All of us want a genuine peace process to succeed, and all of us accept the
legitimacy of a Palestinian state once the Palestinian leadership and people
recognize Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state and not only renounce
the use of violence but at last take action to dismantle the terrorist
infrastructure inside the Palestinian Authority. Time and time again, the
Israeli people have shown their willingness to take risks for peace. But
they will only do so with the knowledge that U.S. support for Israel will
not waver.

It is important for America to help facilitate a peaceful resolution of the
conflict, but in playing this role we must be true to our values and make
sure that all parties clearly understand our policies. This is not a time to
be sending mixed messages; on the contrary, in these difficult times we must
reaffirm our unyielding commitment to Israel's survival and raise our voices
against all forms of terrorism and incitement.

Sincerely,

Howard L. Berman
Nancy Pelosi
Robert Matsui
Steny Hoyer
Martin Frost
Nita Lowey
Tom Lantos
Edward Markey
Chet Edwards
Ben Cardin
Steve Rothman
Steve Israel
Gary Ackerman
Barney Frank
Rahn Emanuel
Adam Smith
Anthony Weiner
Chris Bell
Adam Schiff
Hilda Solis
Robert Menendez
Shelley Berkley
Robert Andrews
Joseph Crowley
Jose Serrano
John Larson
Ellen Tauscher
Dennis Cardoza
Patrick Kennedy
Linda Sanchez
Harold Ford Jr.
Brad Sherman
C.A. Dutch Ruppersberger
Alcee Hastings


http://www.house.gov/berman/letter_new.html

[DYouth]

122. This is ridiculous what the Democrats are doing!

Their newest wedge issue is to be more anti-Arab racist than the Republicans. From the Dubai ports deal to the bombing of Lebanon to this new shit with PM Maliki -- this is horrid stuff.

[MADem]

226. Most of the Arab world thinks Hizb'Allah are assholes, and Iran needs

to cut the crap. They are NOT giving Israel any slack regarding the loss of life, but they BLAME HizbAllah for it.

Dean's remarks are in line with Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and many of the smaller Arab states.

"Saudi Arabia warns everybody that if the peace option fails because of Israeli arrogance, there will be no other option but war," state-owned media quoted Saudi’s King Abdullah as saying before a meeting with Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak.

His remarks were unusually forthright for the world’s top oil exporter, which has called for ceasefire but blamed Lebanon’s Hezbollah guerrilla group for the crisis that has so far killed over 410 people in Lebanon and 42 Israelis.

The comments also appeared to be aimed at the United States, Israel’s ally which has resisted calls for an immediate ceasefire.

Analysts say Washington’s Arab allies, including Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Jordan, fear popular anger against Israel could escalate and force them to take a tougher stance.

http://www.gulf-times.com/site/topics/article.asp?cu_no=2&item_no=99328&version=1&template_id=57&parent_id=56


BEIRUT With the battle between Israel and the Lebanese militia Hezbollah raging, key Arab governments are taking the rare step of publicly blaming Hezbollah, underscoring their growing fear of the group's main sponsor, Iran. Saudi Arabia, supported by Jordan, Egypt, several Gulf states and the Palestinian Authority, chastised Hezbollah for "unexpected, inappropriate and irresponsible acts."...It is nearly unheard of for Arab officials to chastise an Arab group engaged in conflict with Israel, especially as images of destruction at the hands of Israeli warplanes are beamed into Arab living rooms.

But the willingness of those governments to defy public opinion in their own countries underscores a shift that has been prompted by the growing influence of Iran and Shiite Muslims in Iraq and across the region. The way some officials see it, Arab analysts said, Israel is the devil they know, but Iran is the devil that could win.

"There is a school of thought, led by Saudi Arabia, that believes that Hezbollah is a source of trouble, a protégé of Iran, but also a political instrument in the hands of Iran," said Adnan Abu Odeh, a sociologist in Jordan. "This school says we should not play into the hands of Iran, which has its own agenda, by sympathizing or supporting Hezbollah fighting against the Israelis."...."For the first time ever, open criticism was heard from countries like Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Jordan against the unilateral actions carried by radical organizations especially Hezbollah of Lebanon," Siniora wrote.

The willingness of the governments to openly defy Arab public opinion, which has raged against Israel's actions in Lebanon and the Gaza Strip, underscores the readjustment of risks Arab leaders believe they face...


http://iht.com/articles/2006/07/17/news/arabs.php

[Clarkie1]

125. Anyone who does not denounce Hezbollah is by definition anti-semitic

Dean is absolutely correct.

[CuteNFuzzy]

126. Dean is a hypocrite

unless you can show me where he has denounced Israel's crimes

[Clarkie1]

129. He's not, but in any case that's not the issue here.

He has correctly pointed out that the Iraqi Prime Minister is anti-semitic because he has refused to denounce Hezbollah's attacks on Israel.

Dean is 100% correct in his assesment, and I'm proud he's our Party Chairperson. Back in the old days I had issues with Dean, but I'm in full agreement on this issue and I think also he's doing a great job as Party Chairman helping us to win in November.

[CuteNFuzzy]

145. You do know the meaning of the word hypocrite, right?

[cali]

227. You strike me as someone who could

benefit from E.M. Forester's pithy few words on hypocricy:

"It is only hypocrites who cannot forgive hypocricy".

[in_cog_ni_to]

157. Now Howard Dean is a HYPOCRITE just because he speaks the TRUTH?

Maliki IS an anti-semite. He REFUSED to condemn Hezbollah. That tells me, he supports what they are doing. Howard isn't a hypocrite. He's supporting a longtime ally of the U.S.. As he should. Wake the hell up unless you want to lose the '06 and '08 elections.

[CuteNFuzzy]

163. Do you know the meaning of the word?

[in_cog_ni_to]

166. LOL...yes, hun, I DO.

:rofl::rofl::rofl: DO YOU? :rofl::rofl::rofl:

[CuteNFuzzy]

173. what is it then?

[eridani]

228. Maliki is a Sh'ite in a majority Shi'ite country

Condemning Hezbollah would be a really fast route to assassination.

[Marie26]

128. That I don't believe

A leader of a country that is over 50% Shiite, in the midst of a sectarian civil war, has to be very careful of what he says. If he condemns Hizbollah outright, that might well cause more revolts by the Shiites & weaken his own government. He's got to consider the political ramifications of this.

[Clarkie1]

132. That's not the issue.

The issue is pointing out the hypocrisy of Bush's Iraq experiment.

[madfloridian]

136. That is right.

But it is an awful position to be in, that anything you say is wrong.

[Marie26]

138. For Maliki, that's the issue

And that's the issue you stated in your original post - that anyone who doesn't condemn Hizbollah is anti-Semetic. I was saying the other, political reasons that could motivate that decision by the Iraqi PM.

[Crunchy Frog]

168. Pointing that out makes you an anti-semite, you know.

:sarcasm:

[MADem]

224. Too many people who don't 'get' the system think that they are

part of Lebanon, and they aren't. The political wing is, sure (a few unimportant politicians, and only one cabinet clown--he runs the electric company)...so is the CHARITABLE wing, that provides baby formula and widows pensions and schooling.

But the militia...that is an IRANIAN enterprise, make NO mistake. It is NOT funded, rooted, and part and parcel of the shi'a community in Lebanon. IRAN funds it, they train it, they tell it what to do, what not to do, they send bozos to join up to fight in it, they even LEAD it: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/26/AR2006072601365.html

Iranian Volunteers Set Off for Lebanon

By BRIAN MURPHY
The Associated Press
Wednesday, July 26, 2006; 4:59 PM

TEHRAN, Iran -- Surrounded by yellow Hezbollah flags, more than 60 Iranian volunteers set off Wednesday to join what they called a holy war against Israeli forces in Lebanon.

The group _ ranging from teenagers to grandfathers _ plans to join about 200 other volunteers on the way to the Turkish border, which they hope to cross Thursday. They plan to reach Lebanon via Syria over the weekend.

..."We are just the first wave of Islamic warriors from Iran," said Amir Jalilinejad, chairman of the Student Justice Movement, a nongovernment group that helped recruit the fighters. "More will come from here and other Muslim nations around the world. Hezbollah needs our help."

Military service is mandatory in Iran and nearly every man has at least some basic training. Some hard-liners have more extensive drills as members of the Basiji corps, a paramilitary network linked to the powerful Revolutionary Guard....

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/I/ISRAEL_ATTACKED_SHIP?SITE=7219&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2006-07-15-07-28-21

JERUSALEM (AP) -- Elite Iranian troops helped Hezbollah fire a sophisticated radar-guided missile at an Israeli warship, Israeli officials said Saturday, describing an apparent surprise blow by militants who had been using only low-tech weapons.

Iran denied that it had any troops in Lebanon.

Israel initially believed that an aerial drone armed with explosives hit the warship, but it became clear that Hezbollah had used an Iranian-made C-802 missile to strike the vessel late Friday, an Israeli intelligence official said on condition of anonymity because of the sensitive nature of the information.....Hezbollah is widely believed to have been trained, funded and guided by the Revolutionary Guard since the militant group was founded during Israel's 1982 invasion of Lebanon. The Islamic republic's elite corps of more than 200,000 fighters is independent of the regular armed forces and directly controlled by Iran's supreme leader.

"We can confirm that it (the ship) was hit by an Iranian-made missile launched by Hezbollah. We see this as a very profound fingerprint of Iranian involvement in Hezbollah," Brig. Gen. Ido Nehushtan told The Associated Press.

The Shiite militant group had been firing only highly inaccurate Katyusha rockets at Israeli targets. Israel appeared surprised that the guerrilla group had high-tech weapons.

Israeli officials speaking on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the information said that Hezbollah also has Iranian-made drones that are more accurate than missiles, as well as longer-range projectiles that could hit Tel Aviv, Israel's commercial hub.....


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13875121/
Maj. Gen. Udi Adam, of the Northern Command, said Israeli forces had identified Iranian troops and that the rockets that hit Haifa earlier, which killed eight people, were Iranian-made.

Not long after, Shaul Mofaz, an Israeli Cabinet minister and former army chief of staff, said Sunday that the missile that hit the train depot in Haifa came from Syria. "This is Syrian weaponry," he said as he toured the damaged train depot, hours after the attack.

Hamid Reza Asefi, an Iranian Foreign Ministry spokesman, denied the claims....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-5964456,00.html

``Iran sees itself more than just the moral father of Hezbollah. Iran seeks to become a major force across the region as a counterbalance to America and Israel,'' said Ahmad Bakhshaiesh, a professor of political studies at Tehran's Azadi University.

``Lebanon is part of this plan,'' he said....Hezbollah could emerge from the battles severely weakened militarily, but with its reputation enhanced in the Muslim world for resisting Israel. That in turn would give Iran, a non-Arab country, an even higher profile in the Arab world - a prospect that frightens the Jewish state.

Iran ``is the main perpetrator, harborer, financier and initiator of terror and of which the Hezbollah... is only the proxy,'' Israel's U.N. Ambassador, Dan Gillerman, told reporters Thursday.

Iranian leaders have never fully disclosed the levels of financial and military help funneled to Hezbollah strongholds since its founding in the early 1980s. Iran also denies Israeli claims that it has dispatched Revolutionary Guard advisers and directly supplied longer-range missiles that have reached deep into Israel.

But many analysts in Iran and abroad believe Tehran remains firmly at the helm of all important Hezbollah decisions, including the cross-border attack last week that touched off the worst fighting in 24 years.

``Hezbollah simply would not have taken the brazen steps to create murder and mayhem without the assent - if not the actual steering - from Tehran,'' said Lawrence Haas, an expert on Hezbollah at the Georgetown Public Policy Institute in Washington.

[SammyBlue]

135. Go HOWARD!!! I LOVE YOU, Dr. Dean!

[DYouth]

147. Antagonizing the Arab World for short term political gain!!

Just FABULOUS!

[SammyBlue]

150. Ummm. . .I doubt what Dean said will antagonize them more than

the Bush Admin blowing up Iraq. Dean's comments are small potatos in their eyes.

[DYouth]

152. Iraqis: wow, BOTH parties are racist douches

[SammyBlue]

154. And if he said "Israel is to blame 100%," he'd lose a very powerful

and wealthy voting block that has traditionally gone Democrat by 60 - 65 percent.

Personally, to the Middle East, we're damned if we do and damned if we don't.

It's a no win issue.

[Name removed]

155. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SammyBlue]

158. Are you accusing people who support Israel of racism?

[Name removed]

161. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[in_cog_ni_to]

162. NO. HEZBOLLAH terrorists are PSYCHOTIC.

Hezbollah is responsible for this escalation,. NOT Israel. The blood and "rape of Lebanon" is on HEZBOLLAH.

[DYouth]

170. Hezbollah intervened on behalf of the Palestinians

For example the entire Gaza Strip being cut off from water and power by Israeli bombs.

Hezbollah attacked military units. That's not psychotic. What Israel is doing is violence against innocent people.

[SammyBlue]

177. Wrong. . .Hezbollah is lobbing rockets in Israeli settlements, not the

military.

Hamas and Hezbollah have targetted civilians since its inception. Their favorite targets are markets and school buses.

[Name removed]

190. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[in_cog_ni_to]

191. NO. Maybe they should just stop killing Israelis?

Ever think of that? Hamas and Hezbollah could stop this shit IMMEDIATELY if they would stop their terrorism against Israel. THAT will never happen because Hamas and Hezbollah have sworn to never stop the killing until the Israelis are in the sea. Nice, eh?

[in_cog_ni_to]

184. Hezbollah is psychotic and your defending them is very telling.

Hezbollah attacked Israel. Hezbollah was suppose to be OUT OF LEBANON as per UN resolution 1559, they killed 8 soldiers, lobbed thousands of rockets into Israel in the last 6 years and kidnapped 2 soldiers. They were itching for this war...why else did they stock up on arms for the last 6 years.... from Iran? They wanted this war. That's why. Hezbollah is firing rockets into CIVILIAN HOMES, TOWNS, NEIGHBORHOODS ONLY. Israel is trying to clear out Hezbollah strongholds. There is a BIG difference in what the psycho Hezbollah leader is doing and what IDF is doing. Hezbollah hides their weapons under civilan beds, in their living rooms, in there garages and in HIGHLY POPULATED neighborhoods. THAT is psychotic. Human shields. How disgusting.

[Warren DeMontague]

208. don't bother, man.

I think you're arguing with a frozen pizza, now.

[Crunchy Frog]

172. Probably.

We wouldn't have lost the South if we had. We could be living to this day with a happy coalition of New Dealers and segregationists. It would be a paradise of Democratic rule. Winning is the only important thing. Principles don't matter for shit.

[in_cog_ni_to]

160. 77% of the American Jewish voters voted for JOHN KERRY!

Keep that in mind people....while on your anti-Israel rampage.

edited...78% to 77%.

[SammyBlue]

175. I support Israel. I know how many Jews vote Democrat.

We normally vote Democrat, even if we are very wealthy. Thank Truman for that.

[Name removed]

176. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SammyBlue]

178. And America stands with Israel. . .always has, even if people don't like

it.

DYouth, you are really reaching here.

[Name removed]

179. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SammyBlue]

180. Goodbye, Freeper!!!! Hal Turner, is that you???

[in_cog_ni_to]

189. Puhleeeeze. Are we a little thin skinned? I suggest you

prepare yourself for 4 more years, at least, of repuke rule! If you don't CARE about the American Jewish voter, then you are making an HUGE mistake! Jews VOTE and the Democrats NEED EVERYONE OF THEIR VOTES. They CANNOT afford to lose that block of voters! Get a grip.



http://www.bsos.umd.edu/gvpt/uslaner/uslanerlichbachjew...


<snip>
Our key findings echo the words of the two party chairs. Jews who were most strongly
concerned with the security of Israel were more likely than other Jews to vote for President
George W. Bush, who championed himself as a great friend of Israel. The larger number of Jews
who strongly disliked evangelical Christians voted overwhelmingly for John Kerry. Overall,
almost 80 percent of Jews voted for Kerry (compared to 46 percent of non-Jews), similar to the
2
share of Jews who voted for Al Gore in 2000. Some Jews who voted for Gore shifted to Bush,
mostly on concerns for Israel. Other Jews who voted for Bush in 2004 shifted to Kerry, largely
because of fear of evangelicals.<snip>




2004 Jewish Vote Figures Revised in Unprecedented Data Analysis

April 12, 2005

Washington, DC: A study performed by polling professionals and academics, released today by The Solomon Project, concludes that the best estimate of the two-party Jewish vote in 2004 -- based on the National Election Pool -- is that 78 percent of American Jews voted for Senator John Kerry, while 22 percent of Jews voted for President Bush. When factoring in other presidential candidates, the study determined that the best estimate of the overall Jewish vote on Election Day shows 77 percent of American Jews voting for Kerry, versus 22 percent for Bush.

The analysis -- drawing from data sets including the National Election Pool and surveys by Jewish organizations, academic institutions, and others -- concludes that the Jewish vote has remained "remarkably stable" over the last three presidential elections, with American Jews voting 28 percent more Democratic than the national average in 1996, 30 percent more Democratic in 2000, and 29 percent more Democratic in 2004.

The report finds that a large majority of American Jews (from 65 to 74 percent) identify as Democrats, while estimates of the percentage of Jews who identify as Republicans range from 11-21 percent. While there have been indications that Bush captured a majority of Orthodox Jewish voters and Russian Jewish voters, the study found that "sample sizes for both of these subgroups were either unavailable or too small in all surveys to make any definitive claims regarding their partisan attachments in 2004." The analysis also notes a correlation between synagogue attendance and voting behavior, with voters who attend synagogue at least weekly voting 47 percent for Bush in one of the data sets examined.

The study additionally drew correlations between voting behavior and the gender and age of American Jews. The report notes that one relatively strong Republican subgroup among Jews includes Jewish men under 30 years of age, who voted 35 percent for Bush in one survey. The report found that the strongest Democratic subgroups included Jewish women who were 60 years of age or older (who voted 90 percent for Kerry) and Jewish women under 30 years of age (who voted 88 percent for Kerry). The analysis also addresses what it termed "a significant gender gap among Jewish voters in November 2004" -- a gap between Jewish men who voted for Kerry 70-28 percent (a 42 percent margin), and Jewish women who voted for Kerry 82-16 percent (a 66 percent margin).<snip>

http://thesolomonproject.org/pop_details.php?id=485



<snip>
As part of the outreach plan, Democrats are putting together a small group of Members to chart a course for the party to get back on track with one of their key voting blocks.

Democrats say both privately and publicly they have little concern that Republicans will be able to draw large numbers of Jewish voters or donors, but they remain worried the GOP will make enough gains to hurt them. By cutting into their support even slightly, Democrats acknowledge, the GOP can further cement its hold on the House majority.

Republicans have in recent months gone to great lengths to show strong support for Israel and made their presence felt at events for and on issues of importance to Jewish Americans.<snip>


http://democraticwhip.house.gov/media/articles.cfm?pres...

[SammyBlue]

195. Look at history. Blacks voted Republican all the time until the GOP

took them for granted. In 1932, the black vote went Democrat and has stayed Democrat ever since. In fact, it went almost totally Democrat in 1964.

That's why Bush only got 3% of the black vote on 2004.

[in_cog_ni_to]

197. I know. This is very dangerous for the Dem Party.

They CANNOT take the Jewish voters for granted and MUST fight for every vote they can get. I'm just hoping this DU Progressive, anti-Israel hatred doesn't make it out of DU. :( This is VERY damning for the Dem Party. Howard Dean gave me hope today though. :)

[Balbus]

169. Thank you, Dr. Dean!!

:yourock:

[gulliver]

171. Zing!!!

That's some decent one-two politics!!! Saddle Bush with creating Iran Heights, an anti-Semitic democracy, heavily armed with nice, new American weapons -- at American taxpayer expense.

A little more of this and I'll donate to the DNC again.

[oberliner]

174. I support Howard Dean nt

[Cameron27]

181. Good for you Dr. Dean

[Iktomiwicasa]

185. For once

I agree with Dean

Go IDF:woohoo:

[NoPasaran]

187. Once again, Howard Dean tells it like it is

Generally, his "controversial" statements morph into the conventional wisdom a few months down the line.

Bush's policy of regime change in Iraq has been such a disaster that the best case scenario is now a theocracy allied with our enemies that will grow more and more hostile to us with every passing day.

[Cha]

196. That has been the case..

Dean says something so controversial and gets some people up in arms and lo and behold it's cw.

[Karmadillo]

198. Too bad it didn't work when he said we shouldn't take sides b/n

the Israelis and the Palestinians. Might have avoided the current violence.

[caligirl]

193. :-)

[Warren DeMontague]

199. So- what does he base that on? ...I mean, besides the vile, clearly

anti-Semitic comments that Al-Maliki just made the other day, I mean.

Damn Those Jews and their crazy persecution complexes!

Oh yeah. :sarcasm:

[Marie26]

204. What did he say? nt

[Warren DeMontague]

207. Actually, I was thinking of what the other guy said. Oops.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1107AP_Iraq_Israel.html

But it looks like Maliki's comments weren't any kind of treat, either. See below.

I trust Howard Dean. I think he tells it like it is.

[Marie26]

210. See below?

What are you referring to? There's nothing below. What were Maliki's comments? I like Howard Dean, too, but I'm not going to just take his word on this, especially since I think this is basically a political gambit of his to slam Bush by proxy. I don't hesitate to call out anti-Semitism when I see it, but no one has yet provided a source that IMO would justify this kind of charge against Maliki.

[Warren DeMontague]

213. Okay. Looks like I've been wrong twice, now.

I thought the comments in the post underneath this were Maliki's. Guess not. I'll shut up now.

Okay, strike what I said: I trust Howard Dean, but if all Maliki did was criticize the actions of Israel's government, that's not anti-semitism.

[Superman Returns]

202. thank you Dr.!

"Israel stole the land that they occupy. All of it. They are terrorists and occupiers."

These are some of the comments made at DU. I feel like I'm in bizarro land. Thank you Dr. Dean for your statements! You are a true Democrat and represent the position of the Democratic base! I'll add him to the list of Democrats that speak with the facts. Oddly, the only people I can find supporting the position of some of these posters is Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Good old Ahmadinejad, a true defender of liberalism.

[Name removed]

212. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Chico Man]

216. ?

[Name removed]

218. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[madfloridian]

222. That's pretty ugly, God Almighty.

Pretty personal and ugly. At first I thought you were joking.

[oberliner]

219. Look at how the AP writer manipulated Dean's quote

Here's what Dean said:

"The Iraqi prime minister is an anti-Semite," the Democratic leader told a gathering of business leaders in Florida. "We don't need to spend $200 and $300 and $500 billion dollars bringing democracy to Iraq to turn it over to people who believe that Israel doesn't have a right to defend itself and who refuse to condemn Hezbollah."

The AP writer decides to frame it thusly:

Democratic Party chairman Howard Dean on Wednesday called Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki an "anti-Semite" for failing to denounce Hezbollah for its attacks against Israel.

Dean's statement does not explicitly call Maliki and anti-Semite FOR failing to denouce Hezbollah.

Dean calls him an anti-Semite and then also says we shouldn't give billions of dollars to people who refuse to condemn Hezbollah.

Small but critical distinction. Dean may have other reasons for believing that the Iraqi prime minister is an anti-Semite that he did not need to go into with the gathering of business leaders in Florida. Or perhaps he did say more about the subject and it was not included in the article.

The AP writer's tricky wording is suspicious.

[Rex]

223. No, no, no, no,no, no no nooooooooo.....bad politician, bad!

No more treats for you!

[rman]

225. Has Dean denounced Israel for its attacks on Lebanon,

or is Dean an anti-Muslim?

Amd Why does Dean spin Israel's overkill in Lebanon as self-defense?

[Karmadillo]

231. If I'm reading the posts above correctly, the more we

support the ongoing destruction of Lebanon and the more we call people anti-Semites, the more elections we'll win. And then as the progressive party exercising political control, we'll contradict our current rightward words and actions and do something (unspecified) progressive.

[Meshuga]

229. Good for Dean!

He called it like it is!

[Anarcho-Socialist]

236. A shrewd political move by Dean

:thumbsup:

[Larkspur]

243. If the Iraqi PM publicly supported Israel, he'd be assasinated

by his own people.

It's not the Iraqi PM who is the problem. It's the Bush Admin CHOOSING to not keep negotiating with both sides in the I/P conflict and with other players in the Middle East.

[madfloridian]

245. Harry Reid, Bill Nelson voting to have offshore Florida drilling....

But they are flying under the radar and get no criticism.

Something is wrong with this picture. Nelson promised he would not do this.

But Dean gets blasted for two days while they get nothing.