Did Israel deliberately attack the U.N. today??

[journalist3072]

U.N.: Israeli airstrike hits U.N. observer post
Sources: Condoleezza Rice floats plan to end conflict

Tuesday, July 25, 2006; Posted: 10:48 p.m. EDT (02:48 GMT)

BEIRUT, Lebanon (CNN) -- An Israeli airstrike hit a United Nations post in southern Lebanon late Tuesday, killing at least two of the agency's observers, according to the U.N. Interim Force in Lebanon.

The U.N. initially reported that four peacekeepers were dead, but later said there were two dead and two missing. The observers were Austrian, Finnish, Canadian and Chinese, Lebanese security sources said.

Xinhua, the state-run Chinese news agency, reported that a Chinese observer was one of the dead.

The security sources also said that the two missing observers are feared buried in the rubble of the building.

Daniel Ayalon, Israel's ambassador to the United States, said that "UNIFIL obviously got caught in the middle" of a gunfight between Hezbollah guerillas and Israeli troops.

"We do not have yet confirmation what caused these deaths. It could be (Israel Defense Forces). It could be Hezbollah," he said.

More at link:


http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/25/mideast.main/index.html
------------------------------------------------

EDIT: COPYRIGHT. PLEASE POST ONLY 4 OR 5 PARAGRAPHS
FROM THE COPYRIGHTED NEWS SOURCE PER DU RULES.

[Clarkie1]

1. I doubt it. Why would they do that? nt

[Name removed]

2. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[beam me up scottie]

6. Why would they attack Red Cross ambulances? nt

[everythingsxen]

7. Because Hezbollah hides bombs/rockets and troops in them? (NT)

[Erika]

10. Do you have an article or proof to substantiate this charge?

Thanks.

[everythingsxen]

29. Well...

Here is the best I could find for right now... it's only an article and video footage...

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38764

Though to be fair, it is Hamas doing it not Hezbollah. However, Hezbollah has been accused of it and since, as you can see, it does happen....

[beam me up scottie]

31. I can't believe you just linked to worldnetdaily.

There's some fair and balanced coverage.

Love their ads, btw.

[everythingsxen]

38. *shrug*

Sorry it's a little hard to find video coverage of terrorists hijacking ambulances.

[Zhade]

44. You mean, that's not fabricated?

Maybe because the charge is false?

But then, the Israeli government wouldn't lie, would it?

http://www.paramedic.org.uk/news_archive/2004/10/News_Item.2004-10-10.0533/view

Mr Hansen said that Israeli ministers had declared in public that Unrwa ambulances were carrying body parts of fallen Israeli soldiers.
"When challenged to produce the evidence backing up this claim, or to retract the statement and offer an apology, the ministers in question were not able to provide any response and have remained silent," Mr Hansen said.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1320722,00.html

Under Israeli pressure on Monday, the UN secretary general, Kofi Annan, said he would send a team to investigate Israeli claims that video footage showed a man loading a "Qassam rocket" into an ambulance.

Israel used the accusation to press for the removal of the head of the UN Palestinian refugee agency, Peter Hansen, who it has claimed is anti-Israeli.

Mr Hansen said the video showed an ambulance worker carrying a stretcher and accused the Israelis of spreading "false and malicious propaganda".

Yesterday, the army said it was "reviewing" the footage and UN officials said they understood Israel would retract the allegation.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1319080,00.html

In May, Mr Gillerman told the UN security council that an Israeli shell fired into a peaceful demonstration in Rafah had mostly killed gunmen. In fact, the dead were children or unarmed adults.

That's just a five-minute Google search. Go forth and learn, the Israeli government is not above lying to achieve its ends.

[blonndee]

46. WOW! Shot that propaganda DOWN. Well done.

No offense to the poster of the link. I'm sure it was unintentional.

[Zhade]

49. I'm not, but whatever. We have the facts on our side.

Not to mention world opinion, which is far more informed than your average USAmerican.

[papau]

123. Reuters (video), Haaretz article , and Wiki article re ambulances and PA

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3827/is_200406/ai_n9427951 (beware - RW!)

http://www.answers.com/topic/givati-brigadettp://www.answers.com/library/Wikipedia-cid-799033644
Givati Brigade

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/427679.html

AccessMiddleEast.org, a nonprofit global news monitoring service, posted the video (shot by a Reuters TV cameraman) on its Web site last week. (It's available at e.tln0.com/ame/archives/reuters?UN?amblulances?11?may?04.wmv).
http://www.washingtontimes.com/functions/print.php?StoryID=20040602-085820-1021r

http://www.unitedjerusalem.org/index2.asp?id=447373

The actual video of them using the UN vehicle is contained here
http://www.accessmiddleeast.org/
Video addy is below.
http://e.tln0.com/ame/archives/reuters_UN_amblulances_11_may_04.wmv

This footage was shot by Reuters on May 11 -- the day 6 IDF soldiers were killed when their armored personnel carrier was blown up -- but only aired two weeks later.

Please note - despited video and written signed confession by driver of ambulance, The UN denies that they are/were doing this - saying the driver did not understand what he had written and signed.

[Zhade]

40. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!

WTF? WorldNutDaily?

You do realize that's a RIGHTWING source, right?

:rofl:

Jesus, and some people bitch when we tell them they don't know what they're talking about with regards to this situation...

[beam me up scottie]

42. Oh, good.

A sane person.

I was getting lonely.

[ThomCat]

48. Not too lonely, I hope.

:)

[beam me up scottie]

50. Another one!

Woo hoo!
:woohoo:

I thought everyone was in DU's bunker (aka The Lounge).

[ThomCat]

51. I keep poking my head out of the lounge to

follow this thread.

You're doing a great job out here holding the line, but don't take too much of GD in one dose. This place can get toxic. :)

[beam me up scottie]

53. It's much worse than you know...

Look what we've ended up doing here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2742112&mesg_id=2742137


Posting kitty pictures!!!

OH THE HUMANITY !

[LostinVA]

110. I am, too!

[everythingsxen]

43. How about this instead?

http://www.intelligence.org.il/eng/sib/6_04/amb.htm

And as I said above, there are not too many sites that have the video footage of ambulance hijackings.

Besides, it's more proof than you have offered that they are not using them for terror operations.

[ThomCat]

47. If you make the outlandish claim, you have to prove it.

Especially when you're claim is supposed to justify murder.

[Zhade]

52. I don't HAVE to offer proof, YOU do. YOU made the claim.

The onus is on you to prove your assertion.

And let's see what source you picked THIS time:

The Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center is an information project which has been operating for three and a half years. It is part of the Center for Special Studies ( CSS ), an NGO in memory of the fallen of the Israeli Intelligence Community. It is located near Gelilot , north of Tel Aviv, and headed by (Lieut. Col. Ret.) Dr. Reuven Erlich.

Gee, could they have a bias?

And who do they link to?

MEMRI - The Middle East Media Research Institute - ties to PNAC, specifically through its founder Meyrav Wurmser, who is married to a PNACer and supports the PNAC agenda.

What a brilliant couple of sources you've come up with! Gonna go for the rightwing triumvirate next? Face it, you're up against someone who actually knows what they're talking about.

[Ms. Clio]

61. bravo

we have history, facts, truth, and heart on our side.

[Ms. Clio]

62. so how is someone supposed to "prove" they are just ambulances?

Is that like how Saddam was supposed to "prove" he didn't have WMDs?

[LostinVA]

111. Yet another unbiased source

giggle

[Bridget Burke]

117. Find a site not run by Israeli Intelligence

Surely, more neutral sites would have information on this interesting topic.

[LostinVA]

109. Oops! Watch out -- your link bias is showing

[beam me up scottie]

14. And when that obviously wasn't the case, why did they bomb the 2nd one?

[DYouth]

19. Robert Fisk ripped apart this particular crap

In Great War for Civilisation, his book. He went through a tragic story of in Lebanon 1996 where an Apache blew up an ambulance and a nearby house. He took the missle parts to where it was manufactured in Georgia and confronted the merchants of death on it.

More nonsense killing in an occupied zone.

[LostinVA]

108. Hahahahaha

People were saying this as a JOKE yesterday.... oi.

Crazy stuff on DU lately.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

13. To eliminate impartial observers?

Israel isn't allowing journalists into the areas of fighting, even into towns that they've supposedly subdued. I'm not saying Israel did this deliberately. Hell, I'm not even saying Israel did this accidentally, as both sides are shooting everything they've got at each other. But we're not hearing a whole lot about Lebanese civilian casualties in southern Lebanon, as roads and communications are gone. Who knows what killing field might be developing over there? Twenty-thousand artillery shells dropped into southern Lebanon? That's quite a few.

[lonestarnot]

16. Another atrocity that we will never have an answer on, so oh well,

war is war, never pretty.

[norml]

65. You've lost me.

Such denial!

I can't go for that.

[blonndee]

3. If it was IDF, it seems likely

Attacks in the vicinity continued as rescuers tried to reach those killed or injured, UNIFIL said.

"... long-established and clearly marked U.N. post at Khiyam occurred despite personal assurances given to me by Prime Minister Ehud Olmert that U.N. positions would be spared Israeli fire," he said in a statement.

[papau]

4. Israel tells UN when shells might be going in their direction so they can

go into their bunkers -

Today it appears the bunker was poorly made.

[alcibiades_mystery]

18. Damn UN bunker makers!

Now we know who's really at fault for the deaths of those observers! Most likely THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE! THEMSELVES! Why did they construct their own bunker so poorly?!? A full investigation should be launched into the UN's role in poorly training engineers and observers in bunker construction! It is an outrage that the UN has been able to get away with such shoddy bunker construction that observers, warned well in advance of a coordinated artillery and aerial bombardment of their post by the beneficent Israeli Defense Force, were nevertheless unable to find adequate shelter from said bombardment, all owing to the slipshod UN bunker construction requirements! Kofi Annan himself must answer for this outrage to the international community!

:rofl:

(Will no excuse ever be too outlandish? Will no defense of the IDF ever strike its purveyor as the absurdity that it is?)

[beam me up scottie]

22. I KNEW IT!!!

They're so damn sneaky...

I should be laughing, but I don't have it in me tonight.

[malaise]

97. Only one thing matters

Israel is never wrong and every excuse will be used until they capture the Litani river. :sarcasm: :sarcasm:
add.

[papau]

103. "capture the Litani river"? - Israel has asked for an international force

of 20,000 to police, with the Lebanese, from the Litani river south, so as to allow Lebanon to honor the treaty they have with Israel by stopping the rocket attacks.

And this is a bad idea why?

The preference for that force to be NATO, rather than UN, reflects years of the UN Blue Helmets actively working with the terrorists ("fighters"), but to my knowledge Israel is willing for the UN to try again to be a neutral force and have responsibility for such a 20,000 man force.

Of course DU :sarcasm: is a good thing - and there are indeed enough things in this world where :sarcasm: is needed - and "excuses" for violence is indeed one of them.

[malaise]

115. Read Israeli policy from the beginning

Israel wants the Litani river.

[papau]

119. I hope that is not true -but they do want a "no fire rocket at Israel zone

n/t

[papau]

100. The "excuse" is just the facts as I know them- granted get in a bunker or

leave the area is "unfriendly", but then the UN has a reputation of lying about attacks on Israel, lying about Israeli responses, and even offering themselves and their Blue Helmets status and equipment as de facto terrorist (they'd say helping PA civilians and "fighters") allies.

Kofi Annan knows of this background of course - and has no power to change the situation. There are no UN bunker construction requirements, so all he can do is say "Do not shell UN positions" - which then locks in the Hez procedure of firing missiles from UN positions.

To be fair Kofi has call Hez "cowards" for the way they try to get civilians and UN folks killed via shooting rockets from areas where civilians and the UN are located. Indeed Kofi seems a bit more fair and reasoned than most on DU on this topic.

[rucky]

95. It guess it's their fault, then.

:eyes:

[beam me up scottie]

5. Kofi Annan:

Mr Annan described the strike as a "co-ordinated artillery and aerial attack on a long established and clearly marked UN post."

He said it took place "despite personal assurances given to me by Prime Minister Ehud Olmert that UN positions would be spared Israeli fire."

"Furthermore, General Alain Pelligrini, the UN Force Commander in south Lebanon, had been in repeated contact with Israeli officers throughout the day on Tuesday, stressing the need to protect that particular UN position from attack.

"I call on the Government of Israel to conduct a full investigation into this very disturbing incident and demand that any further attack on UN positions and personnel must stop.

[adriennui]

12. the UN is irrelevant

and incapable of wiping its' own behind. what have they done about darfur lately? oops, forgot israel isn't there to kick around....they're not interested.
thank goodness kofi leaves dec. 31st.

[beam me up scottie]

17. Wow, that's EXACTLY what Bolton keeps saying !

:applause: :patriot:

[adriennui]

30. funny,

i find myself agreeing with bolton on this one.

[beam me up scottie]

35. Funny, so do most freepers.

And by funny, I mean predictably ignorant.

[Ms. Clio]

68. amazing how the UN is "relevant" when Security Council Resolutions

against Iran are required, however.

Not that Russia is going to give them one. I guess that's when it will finally be completely "irrelevant."

[beam me up scottie]

71. I really have to wonder sometimes.

Are DUers watching Faux news?

This is the kind of crap I hear from the freepers at work and it never ceases to amaze and disgust me when I hear it parroted on DU.

[Ms. Clio]

72. And reading World Nut Daily, too!

Guess you have to find the "facts" to fit your pre-conceived opinions somewhere.

Honestly, it is making me sick at heart.

[LostinVA]

112. Yup, which then begs the question:

Are they really DUers?

[malaise]

99. It has been irrelevant for most

of the Security Council Resolutions ignored by Israel. There are way too many 'poor memories' on our planet.

[Ms. Clio]

127. and those resolutions, never enforced, are precisely the reason

why they would rather see the UN as "quaint" and useless.

[Don Claybrook]

114. great response

Keep these death monger inbreeders in their place. By that, of course I'm referring to the freepers, not our own hateful death mongers who somehow identify with the left in this country and with the extremist right in Israel--I'd never say anything about them.

[dennis4868]

55. I hate to admit it too....

but I agree with Bolton on this one as well. Feel like I have to take a shower after saying that but that is the truth.

[wellst0nev0ter]

80. UN's Annual Global Nation-Building Budget: $5 Billion

compare that to the $4.5 billion Bushco spends PER MONTH in the Iraq sinkhole.

Keep in mind that these same UN bashers don't know what they want because they also don't want that institution to become strong enough to run peacekeeping operations independently, for it might threaten the future sovereignty of this and other countries.

http://www.unausa.org/site/pp.asp?c=fvKRI8MPJpF&b=730613

[Bridget Burke]

118. Not funny at all.

Here's your hero in Florida, 2000, demonstrating his qualifications.

[beam me up scottie]

24. I think the dead peacekeepers targeted by the Israelis beg to differ.

Or, rather, they would...

[rucky]

96. Sometimes I wonder which forum I'm in. n/t

[MazeRat7]

8. We don't need to abide by no stinkin' UN resolutions...take that.... (n/t)

[Pavulon]

9. Oracles and mind readers

unless someone here in monitoring intercepts of the israeli combat net there is no way to conclude anything. How many angels on the head of a pin comes to mind.


Drawing conclusions from the ether is bad.

Until information is released this is a guess.

My GUESS which is as reliable as yours is NO.

[ThomCat]

28. No evidence would be enough if you don't care.

And on the other side, no evidence is needed if you don't care.

[Pavulon]

34. I care

I like to base my conclusions on fact. No one has any of that right now.

However no evidence is the key in your post.

[ThomCat]

39. The video posted earlier of the doctor

discussing phosphorus burns on children isn't evidence?
The pictures of bombed ambulances aren't evidence?
The vast number of news articles aren't evidence?

Do you require the same standards of strictly documented, verified, and double-checked facts of the Israelis before you think they're justified in "defending themselves?" If not, then no, you don't really care.

[Zhade]

57. To be fair, I think he means evidence that the strike at the UN post...

...was intentional.

I'm not sure we have enough yet to know.

[Purveyor]

11. Of course they did. It bolsters their RW support here in the USA.

[Scurrilous]

15. Yep...

...the RWers love this kind of stuff:

http://lgfwatch.blogspot.com/2006/07/pajamas-medias-lizards-celebrate-un.html

[bananas]

45. Holy crap nt

[Ms. Clio]

67. I saw a an old redneck in a huge pickup truck just the other day

with a "U.S. out of the U.N.!" bumper sticker. Gawd, some people are so stupid they shouldn't be allowed to drive, let alone vote.

I guess it's just those crazy lefties (only about 60% of the U.S.) who think just maybe the U.S. should get out of Iraq, first.

[beam me up scottie]

73. You must live in a red state.

If so, you have my condolences, I do too.

And because I'm exposed to it constantly outside of my door, I have very little tolerance for hearing that kind of garbage on DU.

[Ms. Clio]

74. Texas, god help me

I just hope I will get a chance to get the hell outta here in a couple of years.

[beam me up scottie]

75. Wow.

That's much worse than Kentucky.
You really have to get out of there.
Someday I'll have saved enough to move back home to Vermont.

[Ms. Clio]

77. it depends on my job prospects

with my luck, I'll end up here forever.

Vermont is beautiful, but I couldn't take the cold weather anymore. I need somplace both blue and warm.

[beam me up scottie]

78. Did you ever see "Harry and Tonto"?

If things keep going badly, I'm going to chuck it all and live on a beach in California.

[Ms. Clio]

79. it sounds familiar, but no

I sometimes wish I could chuck it all for a beach in the South Pacific, and just get as far away from here as possible.

[beam me up scottie]

82. Honestly,

if elections this year and 2008 end as badly as the last one, I'm going to have no reason to stay.
If more Americans can't see, or don't care about, what's going on and stand the fuck up, it's too late.

[Ms. Clio]

84. I was one of those hundreds of thousands of people hitting the Canadian

immigration site the day after the 2004 election.

In fact, I can't, realistically, go anywhere else, at this point or any time in the foreseeable future. But if I was independently wealthy, I truly would consider it.

Maybe the 2006 elections will restore our faith.

[beam me up scottie]

85. Maybe.

It's pretty sad when you have to root for the criminals in charge to keep screwing up so that the imbeciles who put them in power won't vote for them next time.

But that's where I'm at.

[Ms. Clio]

88. oh no, I never thought of it that way

but look at the "bright" side -- we can count on those criminals in charge to keep screwing up!

[lumpy]

86. The redneck is just following the neocon

agenda. I'm not saying the guy would know what the word means, just saying. Bolton would approve of the sticker.

[Ms. Clio]

89. oh, yeah, he wouldn't have a clue, but that's exactly what he's doing

It looked like a brand new sticker, too. Maybe some rightwing political or church group was passing them out.

[nashville_brook]

101. people have NO IDEA what the United Nations is for

League of Nations?
Charter of the Security Council?

high esoterica!

[Ms. Clio]

125. Woodrow Wilson? FDR? wtf did they know about anything, right?

The UN is not some "furrin" idea.

[Pavulon]

20. Can you get me those intercepts

I mean if you are NSA or MI6 you should be eavesdropping on their net. i cant read or speak hebrew so a transcript would be good.

That must be cool to have access to the actual order for the fire mission. Chain of command approval and the green light to hit the UN.

Wow.

Or you are guess guessing and speculating like the rest of us...

[Purveyor]

23. Oh I'm sure it is written and documented... /sarcasm off

[Pavulon]

25. Tubes don't aim themselves

the military (ours) has an elaborate system of calling in, approving, and releasing weapons. Most western nations do. I can't speak for israels communication system but I assume it is advanced.

i would bet the order is on dat being reviewed now by their command now.

[TahitiNut]

21. Golly! Why wouldn't they want neutral, reliable observers in the area?

Hmmm? I don't think it was any more deliberate than the destruction of Brewster Jennings & Assoc. as a cover for weapons proliferation intelligence in the Middle East. We all know that wasn't deliberate, right? I don't think it was any more deliberate than the rape of the Muslim girl and 'accidental' killing of her entire family. Hell, that was just a mistake, right?

:eyes: :eyes:

[Ms. Clio]

70. What is happening to the language here is very revealing

Both sides in the conflict aim weapons at civilian areas. But apparently only one actually "intends" to kill any of the people there.

[TahitiNut]

83. Indeed.

It's also involving the old canards of "deterrence" (like capital punishment) and blaming the victims. Language. The first victim of war is truth.

WHat I find particularly revealing is the exploitative use of the phrase "innocent civilians." First of all, "innocence" has nothing to do with war. Nothing. That's like "logical" has nothing to do with insanity. Children are the only (sometimes arguable) innocents. (I say that as a Viet Nam vet - and it's not easy to come to grips with.) When we consider that Israel has universal service and that military age citizens are in the reserves, it becomes even fuzzier. Also fuzzy is the status of an irregular militia. So, there's merely heat and little light when claims of "innocent civilian" deaths are tallied. Dead is dead. I doubt the mother of a combatant cries any less. I doubt the child is any less orphaned.

What I find overwhelmingly insane about war and the death trade-offs made is that there's a tactical choice made to employ stand-off weaponry at a place and time of the combatant's choosing - in order to reduce the chance of the combatant's injury or death at the cost of (how many??) non-combatant lives, including children. The delusion that there's anything ethical about stand-off weapons is astounding - when, simultaneously, we hear rants about the death of "innocent civilians." In a bizarre sense, I sometimes think the suicide bomber is the most ethical - in surrendering their own lives. (I said it was bizarre.) It's exceedingly strange that we romanticize the Samurai - and miss the fact that that was a form of warfare in which there was little or no "collateral damage." Even now, we call it "honor." (It's not about technology, either. Mankind has known how to throw stones for a long, long time.)

[Ms. Clio]

87. Thanks, I was not familiar with the term "stand-off" weapons

I find your analysis very compelling. Of course, I've seen you mention your own experiences before, and understand your position. I agree it's not technology -- the huge and horrific clashes of the Civil War armies with all their deadly new weapons did not kill thousands of non-combatants, either. But, IIRC, more than half the total casualties of World War 2 were women and children.

Interestingly, I was just reading microfilm today from Texas newspapers, and came across a long article about a "tournament." Apparently after the Civil War, many Confederate TX veterans participated in these elaborate events, designed to imitate the romantic knightly contests of yore.

[TahitiNut]

90. Maybe I should "finish the circle" and bring it back to language.

Consider ... "throwing stones" has been long a euphemism for something cowardly, lacking honor.
See ... that's a little peek into how my mind works. That's the path of connections I made in considering "language." :evilgrin:
(I know. Nut.)

[Ms. Clio]

92. But it was a heroic feat when David did it

so I guess it really all depends on who is writing the story. Anything can be heroic with the right language and good marketing.

I don't think I'll ever really figure out how your mind works. :evilgrin:

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[adriennui]

33. you're being deliberately provocative or

(i hope) sarcastic. if not i will certainly begin to list the sins and atrocities committed by your heroes.

[beam me up scottie]

37. So it's all about your heroes vs his?

And here I thought this was a discussion about an event that happened today.

Silly me. :eyes:

[unkachuck]

27. Annan....

....should rebuild and re-man that post with Chinese and Russian observers as soon as possible....

[HuffleClaw]

32. of course it was deliberate

sending a 'message' to the un.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ThomCat]

41. I wouldn't describe the Israeli military quite that way.

They're just locked into a frenzy based on a combination of religion and hyper-nationalism.

[Zhade]

59. Now where have we seen that combination before...

Hmmm.

The Israeli people deserve a better Israeli government!

(So do the arab peoples around Israel.)

[cynatnite]

54. To be honest, I don't believe it was deliberate...

I don't like what Israel is doing at all, but I don't see what the motive would be.

Isn't Israel wanting peacekeepers in the area? It seems to me they would be biting the hand that feeds them by deliberately targeting something like this.

This strikes me as an accident since it's not unheard of for bombs to miss. Israel is at complete fault for it, but I tend to believe this was unintentional. Human error, the more I think about it.

[lumpy]

60. This was a UN observation post not

UN peacekeepers. They are there specifically to observe any military violations commited by either side. Israeli IDF is well aware of their well marked position by intercommunication with UN observers. I believe this UN post has been there for several months. The IDF claims that hezbollah installations are in the vicinity also. Nothing has been said by the UN whether this is true or not as far as I can determine. It has been reported, I assume, by UN observers in the area that there were 14 strikes by the IDF even during rescue operations of UN wounded and dead. The bunker was completely destroyed and last I heard there might be more dead in the rubble. There has been past strikes against UN observer by IDF in various skirmishes.

[cynatnite]

64. I know it was an observation post...

There has been no evidence presented that it was intentional.

Plus, if there is a motive, I sure can't see it.

Right now, I'm inclined to believe it was unintentional.

[lumpy]

69. Perhaps there have been violations

of UN resolutions restricting use of certain weapons, striking humanitarian units, ambulances,etc. That might be one reason. Or not. UN's Kofi Annan might well have answers to this speculation. Evidence is quite strong that IDF has used phosphorus bombs reported by doctors treating bombing victims and there has been suspicion of cluster bombs being used. These weapons have been outlawed by the UN.

[cynatnite]

76. Yes, I've heard about the bombs...

and saw the video. I'm hoping someone can get some tests done to prove it. I think it could be a fast way to stop their bombing. It seems to me the only way Hezbollah will stop is if Israel stops first.

I'm inclined to think it was human error on the IDF's part because I think it would be completely stupid on Israel's part to intentionally hit a UN post, but I've been known to be wrong before.

It's times like these where I just :shrug: We can only speculate at this point.

[Ganja Ninja]

105. I think the keyword here is "observers".

Now why wouldn't the Israeli army want observers around?

[LostinVA]

113. Observers that they fired on FOURTEEN TIMES yesterday

Ooops! They made a mistake 14 times. Bull.

Some of the disconnects on DU are mindboggling...

[Vitruvius]

128. The Israelis deliberately attacked the USS Liberty during the 1967 war

because they were doing things that could not bear the light of day. Like today. "Accidentally" attacking observers is part of the Israeli playbook -- especially when they are doing the unspeakable.

For more information:
http://www.ussliberty.org/ :
"I was never satisfied with the Israeli explanation. . . . Through diplomatic channels we refused to accept their explanations. I didn't believe them then, and I don't believe them to this day. The attack was outrageous "
-- US Secretary of State Dean Rusk

"...the board of inquiry (concluded) that the Israelis knew exactly what they were doing in attacking the Liberty."
-- CIA Director Richard Helms

"I can tell you for an absolute certainty (from intercepted communications) that the Israelis knew they were attacking an American ship."
-- NSA Deputy Director Oliver Kirby

"That the Liberty could have been mistaken for the Egyptian supply ship El Quseir is unbelievable"
-- Special Assistant to the President Clark Clifford, in his report to President Lyndon Johnson

Also see:
http://home.cfl.rr.com/gidusko/liberty/

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/margolis12.html

[T Town Jake]

56. No.

(n/t)

[6000eliot]

58. Of course they did.

How many U.N. resolutions are they in violation of?

[lumpy]

66. Use of phosphorous weapons so say doctors

treating civilian casualties showing pictures of dead bodies burned to a crisp with the smell of chemical phosphorou. Graphic photos/videos of the victims can be seen on Information Clearing House. Claims that the IDF is using cluster type missiles. Bombing/destroying escape routes that prevent civilians from escaping line of fire. Bombing basic falciities necessary for sustaining human life. Cutting off relief aid by bombing.

[progressivebydesign]

63. Another article states they've been fired on before by Israel.

Let's face it... Israel is has never shown any restraint or finesse in their military, intelligence, or security. These are forces that bulldoze people's homes, refugee camps, and college students.

[lumpy]

81. That has been shown to be the case

in what has been going on with the Palestinians. Keeping those people in a state of seige, rounding up prisoners without recourse, bulldozzing communities and refugee camps, destroying Palestionian orchards, in reality keeping Palestinians in a state of subjugation. Palestinian radicals have done their dirty work and Israeli radicals have done more than their fair share in retaliation against Palestinians as a whole...... So much of the problem stems from the history of that particular region; Palestinians having to retreat from land settled by generations of their ancestors, ending up in refugee camps without hope or future, Jewish settlers establishing in Palestine territory with consent/help from the Israeli government. Israelites/Palestinians finding it difficult to deal with demands and reality of living in close proximity with people of different religion and customs. And of course the disputs over green belts and water sources that are so essential in that region, perhaps one of the most important aspects of the battle for survival. Not the most holiest of lands. And no ones God is going to help them.

[Behind the Aegis]

91. No!

[w4rma]

93. Yes, and then refused to let up while the UN *tried* to possibly rescue

the other two observers buried in the rubble.

[unhappycamper]

94. journalist3072:

Please be aware that DU copyright rules require that excerpts of copyrighted material be limited to four paragraphs and must include a link to the original source.

In the future, please insure your posts adhere to this standard.

TIA,

unhappycamper
DU Moderator

[QuettaKid]

98. the DU'ers who are backing Israel in it's current round of war crimes

are NO different than the freeps we used to LOVE to ridicule who were the exact same way about bush and the USA, my country right or wrong. Why can you not see this!?!? Why is it so outlandish to think that the IDF would intentionally blow up a UN observation post? Maybe they didn't want the UN guys to see another war crime they were about to perpetrate?

[nashville_brook]

102. i think it was more blatant than that. it was a giant FU.

i think the "point" was that Israel and the United States won't be having any of this nonsense about "The World" butting-in to our armageddon.

[oasis]

104. Sen. McCain says "Kofi Annan should know better, he's betraying his bias".

"AIPAC" Johnny made that comment on the Imus Show.

[Ganja Ninja]

106. Anyone that disagrees with these assholes is bias. n/t

[confludemocrat]

116. Israeli US ambassador demanded Annan apologize for accusing Israel

That was on CNN last night. Fucking dispicable. Now today Olmert is apologizing

[DemonFighterLives]

107. Of course it was deliberate

I saw little wolfie blitzer trying to paint it as an Hezbollah strike, but finally succumbing to the idea that the aerial bombs came from aircraft that only Israel has. Of course all the evidence isn't in, but the wars that the US and Israel now have, the truth has to be the first to go. Reporters :nuke: UN :nuke:

:argh:

[Philosoraptor]

120. Is the pope Catholic?

Seriously though, I believe they did, to draw the world into their battle.

[malaise]

121. YES

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5217176.stm
UN peacekeepers in south Lebanon contacted Israel 10 times before an Israeli bomb killed four UN personnel, sources familiar with a UN report say.

The post was hit by a precision-guided missile after six hours of shelling nearby, diplomats familiar with the initial probe into the deaths say.

The news comes during crisis talks in Rome seeking to end the fighting between Hezbollah and Israel.

The UN secretary general has called for a ceasefire, as fighting continues.

[Finder]

122. If so, it was prob just a few "bad apples." Nothing to see here.n/t

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

124. Hizbullah sent it's mighty air force to drop the bombs.

Israel is "investigating" it.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

126. Did Al Qaeda deliberately attack the WTC?

Or was it one bad pilot?