Pentagon Admits Russian SA-7 Missile Took out Helicopter in Iraq

[leftchick]

Jan. 17, 2006 — Pentagon officials tell ABC News they believe Iraqi insurgents used a Russian-made SA-7 surface-to-air missile to shoot down a U.S. military helicopter on Monday.

The AH-64 Apache crashed north of Baghdad, killing the two crew members. It was the third American chopper to go down in 10 days.

It's a troubling new development because there are hundreds — and by some estimates thousands — of SA-7 missiles that are unaccounted for in Iraq.

The weapons had been part of Saddam Hussein's arsenal, much of which was looted after the invasion. But until now, insurgents had never successfully used them against an American aircraft.

"It could be just a lucky shot," said Gen. John Keane, the Army's acting chief of staff. "Or it could be that they have invested in a training program, and they now have some qualified operators and that'll be more of a threat than it has been in the past."

<snip>

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/International/story?id=1515168

[Botany]

1. No WMDs, no link to 9-11, no threat to America, & no bin Laden

So explain to me why we are there again?

Put all their neo con asses on 'copters and fly them around Iraq .....
We would be out in a heartbeat.

[leftchick]

12. "we are fighting them there so we don't fight them on our soil"!

so screamed the bushbot lady on c-span this morning.

[lectrobyte]

13. My head explodes a little bit every time I hear someone say that.

I guess that folks can't appreciate the fact that invading a country will create more enemies and hatred of the US. But I suppose that's probably the point. Perpetual war. After all, we are probably going to need another "Attack on America" to pump up the support for invading Iran...

[ixion]

2. looted after the invasion... remember, Rummy said that

during the looting that the Iraqis were just expressing their new found freedom.

Perhaps it would have been wise to try and secure those stockpiles, no? I mean, that just seems like a logical conclusion, when considering how one would undertake the invasion and occupation of a soverign nation and all. :puke:

[Dhalgren]

3. Well, at least someone can train Iraqis to function as an

effective military. We can't train Iraqis well enough to stand in a chow-line, but the "insurgents" can train Iraqis pretty damned well. Anyone who thinks that this "insurgency" is "ad hoc" is crazy; these guys know what they are doing and are trained, led, and organized very well. We need to "redeploy" the hell out of there! "Cut and run"? You fucking bet!

[htuttle]

4. Well, that was the turning point in the Russo-Afghani war

When the Afghans began to use effective SAMs, the Russians started losing so many helicopters that they weren't very effective anymore. Without air support, our military is screwed.

"The Bear went over the mountain, the bear went over the mountain,..."

[wtmusic]

8. good point

and their SAMs were good ol' American-made Stingers. How many of those weapons passed from mujahadeen hands to al Qaeda? More likely the Pentagon isn't letting on it was a Stinger that brought the chopper down--and we'll see much more of it.

[leftchick]

11. That was my thought as well

Juan Cole has seen reports of SA-14s as well. If there are even just hundreds the US is screwed. They are speculating thousands! How many more lives need to be lost? :(

[lectrobyte]

5. Lucky shot or not, it shouldn't be a surprise that we would lose

troops and helicopters. I look it at like this: Suppose I hated Bush as much as possible, say, like Mike Malloy cranked up to 11. Suppose Sweden invaded us to free us from the never-elected tyrant, and had "shock and awed" Washington DC and a few bigger cities, the electricity was out, gangs of roving Republicans are looting WalMarts and raping domestic animals, and those damn Swedish and their mercs are running around in HMMMV's and Helicopters occasionally killing random innocent civilians such as your spouse and children while securing all our oil wells and emptying out Fort Knox. You have a Stinger in the garage that your neighbor carried off from the Nationall Guard Armory after it was abandoned. You hear the whumping of the helicopter blades in the distance. What would you do? What would Bruce Cockburn do?

[Village Idiot]

9. "stealing fire" is definetly the best BC CD ever!

here comes the helicopter -- second time today
everybody scatters and hopes it goes away
how many kids they've murdered only god can say
if i had a rocket launcher...i'd make somebody pay.

i don't believe in guarded borders and i don't believe in hate
i don't believe in generals or their stinking torture states
and when i talk with the survivors of things too sickening to relate
if i had a rocket launcher...i would retaliate

on the rio lacantun one hundred thousand wait
to fall down from starvation -- or some less humane fate.
cry for guatemala, with a corpse in every gate
if i had a rocket launcher...i would not hesitate

i want to raise every voice -- at least i've got to try.
every time i think about it water rises to my eyes.
situation desperate echoes of the victims cry
if i had a rocket launcher...some sonofabitch would die

[lectrobyte]

10. Timeless. Amazing. Gotta kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight

oh yes.

[Village Idiot]

14. and my fav from that CD...

breakfast woodsmoke on the breeze --
on the cliff the u.s. Embassy
frowns out over managua like dracula's tower.
the kid who guards fonseca's tomb
cradles a beat-up submachine gun --
at age fifteen he's a veteran of four years of war
proud to pay his dues
he knows who turns the screws
baby face and old man's eyes

blue lagoon and flowering trees --
bullet-packed masaya streets
full of the ghosts of the heroes of monimbo
women of the town laundry
work and gossip and laugh at me --
they don't believe i'll ever send them the pictures i took.
for every scar on a wall
there's a hole in someone's heart
where a loved one's memory lives

in the flash of this moment
you're the best of what we are --
don't let them stop you now
nicaragua

sandino in his tom mix hat
gazes from billboards and coins
"sandino vive en la lucha por la paz"
sandino of the shining dream
who stood up to the u.s. marines --
now washington panics at u2 shots of "cuban-style" latrines
they peek from planes
eavesdrop from ships
voyeurs licking moistened lips 'cause

in the flash of this moment
you're the best of what we are --
don't let them stop you now
nicaragua

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

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[Loonman]

7. And we gave a bunch of those to the Mujihadeen

What a coincidence!

Reagan gave Stinger shoulder-fired missiles to the Islamic Jihad in Iran to spring the hostages.

[0007]

15. When is junior gonna start training the Iraqis to fly?

I even think the Iraqis need a ship or two. Let's see, the Shi'its could fight on the ground, the Kurds could fly the planes and who'd run the navy? The Sunnis?