a word I have heard unsolicited from a wide range of people: REVOLUTION

[yurbud]

I have been following national and state politics extremely closely since 9/11, and some of my friends think I'm nuts when I talk about stuff the Bushies are doing or going to do (like when the Iran War plans were leaked last summer), but I keep getting surprised when I hear this word, REVOLUTION from people who don't follow politics closely or actively don't give a shit.

Last night, I was talking to a student about how Bush's plan for the next war might lead to a draft. He said he'd move to Canada. When I told him the government has an extradition treaty for that with Canada these days, he looked despondent.

I said, 'funny thing is, if you won't go when there's a draft, I don't think a lot of kids your age will.'

He said, 'Yeah, there will be a revolution or something,' not as a joke, ironically or as a way of dismissing the conversation.

The weird thing is, when I talk to some people quite a bit older than me (like people who can remember the Depression and World War II), particularly about the Democrats half-hearted resistance and often complicity with the Bushies, they say the same thing unsolicited.

It is not my hope or something I'm advocating. I would prefer to fix the system so it's harder for corrupt, fascist-tending kleptocrats of either party to get into power.

But that said, those of us who have been waiting for the public to turn on the Bushies might get it all at once, when a line is crossed and the public snaps, and inaction seems more dangerous than active opposition. That might happen after the next 'terrorist' attack to rally support for the Iran War, or start the draft, or declare martial law, or when the Bushies use the first nuke on an enemy since World War II. Maybe it won't be until Russia or China drop a nuke on us, but the change will come in the blink of an eye, and those apathetic couch potatoes we have tried to motivate to action will suddenly surge past us like a wave of out of control soccer hooligans.

I'm wondering if anyone else has had people use the R word when talking about politics other than known anarchist or communists (for them it's like saying hello).

[genie_weenie]

1. The Government will regard that as Treason & Terrorism.

And you will be dealt with accordingly...

[yurbud]

4. as a regular poster here and a union activist, I was already regarded as

such.

Bring a deck of cards so we can play poker at Gitmo.

[sinkingfeeling]

2. I believe there will be 'people's revolutions' around the globe by 2100.

It will be the only way to end the craziness of the corporate control. We will never have America back to its ideals without a revolt against the in-bred corruption of corporations, military, and power.

[yurbud]

5. I don't think it will take that long unless corporations tone down their

over-reaching.

They could, but I don't know if they will.

[meganmonkey]

3. I hear it a lot

And I hear it from people who DUers often like to refer to as the ignorant or apathetic non-voters. They aren't ignorant and apathetic, they have just known all along that neither the Ds nor the Rs represent them so they don't play the game anymore...they are fed up, and they are a large number of the population. THEY are the ones who generally show up to demonstrate daily in my town at our makeshift anti-war/anti-Bush demonstration. Not the Dems (with a few exceptions of course - hi, jasonc :hi: ), but the independent, non-affiliated.

The people are ready for a major change. They are looking for leaders. Meanwhile, the Dems and the Repubs are doing their damnedest to keep any REAL positive change from happening, lest we upset the status quo (aka piss off the wealthy corporate donors...The only people who scoff at the word Revolution are DUers (Well, probably freepers too, but I don't go there).

Who needs "centrism" and the 5-10% swing voters when practically half the US population is ready for a true people's movement? Too bad the corporate Dems are...er...corporate, or they'd have moved away from the centrist bullshit line long ago...

[yurbud]

6. what passes for centrism isn't designed to attract voters but corporations

they say just enough bland platitudes to attract voters while being careful not to offend corporations who are their true constituents.

The real test of a pol is not how far left they are willing to say they are, but what they do with irrefutable facts. If Lieberman can go to Iraq and say everything is swell, he doesn't just disagree with me on how to approach problems--he's lying.

Likewise when pols sidestep one of the primary causes of the healthcare crisis--profiteering by insurance companies who charge as much as they can then give back as little as they can in claims, and drug companies who bilk us of tax dollars for R & D then charge us more than anyone else in the world.

Probably the worst example of being bought (or wanting to be bought) is talking about the Iraq War. Democrats will go as far as to say Bush lied about the reasons we went, but the vast majority act like they have no idea what the real reasons were, despite them being well-documented by reporters like Greg Palast, Naomi Klein, and anyone whoever visited the PNAC website.

Bush gave Iraq to his oil buddy friends, so the could profit from pumping the oil, they could determine production and therefore the price of oil, and so America could be in a position to seize more oil or threaten to do so other countries will bend to the will of our oil companies. And as the world supply of oil draws down, the Middle East will go empty last, making that oil all the more valuable.

Has a Democratic senator said this out loud? Have any Congressmen besides maybe Dennis Kucinich? Those who haven't said it are not ignorant or retarded. They are afraid or bought. Or want to be bought.

[sinkingfeeling]

15. One correction, Bush gave Iraq to his oil buddy friends to STOP

pumping oil, driving prices to all time highs. OPEC, under the Saudis, have consistently suppressed Iraq oil quotas for decades. Iraq holds the second largest oil reserves in the world, but was limited to pumping a measly 2 million barrels a day. I am now convinced after reading "Armed Madhouse" that the peak oil claim isn't true. There are more oil reserves today than the guy who first showed his chart of 'peak oil' claimed ever existed.

[yurbud]

23. it's a tricky deal--there is oil, but the issue is how fast we use and...

as Palast noted with the heavy oil Venezuela, some kinds aren't counted until they are economically feasible to extract.

We will run out of oil. The only question is whether oil companies manipulate the situation for them to make maximum profits, in part by holding back alternatives, and how much damage that inflicts on the rest of us.

I do disagree with the peak oil advocates who say it will be the end of civilization. We made the switch from whale oil to kerosene pretty quickly. People become incredibly flexible when they can't avoid it.

[MuseRider]

7. I was getting ready to post the same thing.

People who have consistantly teased me, not in a mean way but because I was so informed, have begun to say things that have stunned me. I am not unhappy to hear it considering who is saying it.

[bryant69]

14. So rather than the hard work of reform a party

or creating a new one, they sit around spouting fnatsies of revolution? That's exactly the kind of people I trust to fix America!

What percentage of revolutions have added up to something better?

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[yurbud]

16. American, French, Chavez....

[bryant69]

25. The Terror, anybody?

[yurbud]

26. that was a downside. A parallel with us is a sizable middle

class that feels like they have no voice in their government.

actually, now that I think about it, we're getting the terror BEFORE the revolution. You might not think so, but if you were a Muslim American rounded up after 9/11, it would seem more like it.

[yurbud]

17. I am not advocating it, just making an observation

People here are of a certain bent of personality that leads us to care about some things before they become absolute catastrophes, and act in a slightly more long term way.

This is about that broad swath of people who normally don't care about politics at all, but as in other countries, could suddenly be triggered to act if a line unknown to us is crossed.

I would have guessed the line was much earlier than now, but it might not be much further depending on how reckless the Bushies get and how much they fear a Democratic majority in Congress.

[stepnw1f]

20. Same Here... These Folks Do Not Watch What They Say

and I'm glad they don't.

[Ganja Ninja]

8. I think it may be the only way to reform government and ...

get rid of the corrupting influence of corporations. The 1st amendment is being used as a shield to keep the cash flow going. Only a constitutional amendment will change things and we aren't going to see either party work for that. It's going to take some kind of revolution at the state level to force an amendment through. In other words, people taking action when congress won't. A non-violent peoples revolution.

[yurbud]

9. that's what happened in Russia and hopefully the only way it would happen

here.

I wonder if the corporate strategerists haven't considered that and have contingency plans to counter it.

[Chulanowa]

10. I've been hearing "Revolution" since i was in diapers

My mom was a hippy, my dad a Hell's Angel... Yeah, go figure.

I have yet to see any sort of "revolution". If anything I see spreading complacency. You might be hearing "revolution" spoken. But it's idle words from idle minds, I'm afraid.

Hearing revolution doesn't matter. It's when you see revolution that it matters.

[yurbud]

22. I have always known idle people and haven't heard anything

remotely like this before.

Hippies and Hell's Angels fall into the same category as communists and anarchists in my original post--it's not exactly shocking to hear them say it.

[originalpckelly]

11. Right to Revolution is legal. Don't let them tell you otherwise...

And any law abridging the freedom of discussing revolution is unconstitutional.

[BOSSHOG]

12. CIVIL WAR not REVOLUTION

This is our country and we should be more than happy and ready to take it back from the domestic enemies of our constitution. We don't need to revolt against a government which is ours.

[yurbud]

18. good point. How will it look different from a revolution if you go

to collect what is rightfully ours?

[meldroc]

13. I've been hearing it too.

There's a reason why lots of people are apathetic - their politicians are not responding to them, at all. I do still participate by voting, but I'm getting apathetic too. No matter who I vote for, Republican or Democrat, it seems that I'm getting a member of the Big Business Party. I write letters asking them not to vote for a bill, and I get a form letter thanking me for supporting the same bill. I protest, but they pass abominations like the DMCA. They started the war in Iraq based on lies. All they care about is getting their campaign money from the corporations and the PACs so they can brainwash us with ads to get reelected. And now that they've deployed Diebold's vote-stealing machines across the nation, they hardly have to do that.

The people of the U.S. aren't just apathetic, they're very, very angry right now. They know perfectly well when they're getting snowjobbed, and they're getting to the point where they're not going to take it anymore.

I don't know if what's going to happen is going to be revolution. Maybe riots. It'll be really ugly.

[yurbud]

21. I've almost given up on writing and calling Congress after they

let Alito slip through without a filibuster.

Phone calls and letters were pouring in, and the Democrats acted like they were doing us a huge favor just to vote against him, as if a filibuster was the same as the GOP 'nuclear option' to do away with the filibuster.

Something I have thought about with the Democrats came up in an article on moderate republicans. When a crucial vote comes up, the party leadership makes them commit to vote for it, until they have more than enough votes for it to pass. Once they have a safe margin, they 'release' some to 'vote their conscience,' i.e. make their constituents happy--but not enough to change the outcome.

Sometimes that's what I see with the Democrats. There are enough dissident voices to give us hope, but they somehow never quite reach a critical mass. And those who consistently say and do the right things, not ideologically, but simply acknowledging the truth of what is going on, are just as consistently ignored or snubbed by the party structure.

[stepnw1f]

19. I Hear it Alot

from people I never knew were into politics. A couple former Republicans have even said as much...

[Warren DeMontague]

24. Only if they release "Revolution" as an XBOX 360 game.

Sorry. When I see huge numbers of college age kids off their asses and in the streets protesting this war, then I'll start to think the majority of them are even aware it's going on.

That's not to say that there aren't dedicated folks from all age groups. There are. But the Merkin public overall is pretty apathetic, and that goes for teens and twentysomethings, too. They'll wake up if there's a draft, but I think your friend's "...or something" comment is pretty telling. That's not someone who has given the matter a ton of thought, IMHO.

As it is, as revolutions go, I'll defer to the wisdom of the Beatles on the subject:

You say you want a revolution
Well, you know
We all want to change the world
You tell me that it's evolution
Well, you know
We all want to change the world
But when you talk about destruction
Don't you know that you can count me out
Don't you know it's gonna be all right
all right, all right

You say you got a real solution
Well, you know
We'd all love to see the plan
You ask me for a contribution
Well, you know
We're doing what we can
But when you want money
for people with minds that hate
All I can tell is brother you have to wait
Don't you know it's gonna be all right
all right, all right
Ah

ah, ah, ah, ah, ah...

You say you'll change the constitution
Well, you know
We all want to change your head
You tell me it's the institution
Well, you know
You better free you mind instead
But if you go carrying pictures of chairman Mao
You ain't going to make it with anyone anyhow
Don't you know it's gonna be all right
all right, all right
all right, all right, all right
all right, all right, all right

[yurbud]

27. how far can Bush get into a World War WITHOUT a draft?

And believe me, those lazy ass kids will be in the streets precisely because they are lazy ass and apathetic--and want to be free to continue to be so.