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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-25-06 10:37 AM
Original message
BBC: Israelis accused of 'human shields' tactic
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5212870.stm

Court outlawed tactic

Allegations over Israel's use of human shields have surfaced before. The last time they made headlines was during Operation Defensive Shield in the West Bank town of Jenin, four years ago.

The army denied its personnel systematically used civilians as human shields during that operation, but it did issue an order outlawing the practice. As did the Israeli High Court.

But Yekhezel Lain, research director with the Israeli human rights group B'tselem says they are worried those guarantees are now being eroded. He says the cases in Beit Hanoun last week are the first of their kind since the High Court decision.

"This was a very blatant violation of the prohibition of the use of human shields," he tells me. "It was just soldiers hiding behind the back of civilians who were held with force in their homes."

B'tselem says it is investigating reports of other, similar incidents in Gaza during the past month. And it is worried that - having withdrawn from Gaza last year - the Israeli army may see the area as distinct from other Palestinian Territories.
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Wonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-25-06 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
1. Whhhaaaaaaat? There goes another of their "we're so morally superior"
talking points that's been so oft repeated.
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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-25-06 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. This is going to be Israel's Katrina. Just like the storm unmasked
the callousness of Bushco, the vicious destruction of Lebanon will destroy what's left of Israel's claim to moral superiority and victimhood.
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itzamirakul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-25-06 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. You are right, momcat...
I was in my late 20s when I read Michner's, THE SOURCE, and for years that book provided my only understanding of the original creation of Israel. A romantic tale, I remember distinctly the word-picture of an Israeli "freedom fighter" running behind the fleeing Arabs, calling out, "Don't go! Please Stay!"

Michener made heroes and heroines of the young, brave Israeli insurgents who fought door-to-door for inch-by-inch of land. And, according to the Michner, the Arabs ran away because they thought they could just return and take the land back later.

And that was the image I carried in my mind for years, causing me to unequivocally support the Israelis and believe that they actually wanted to SHARE the land with the Arabs.

Reality has caused me to see things in another light.

Now I ask myself how can I support a country that is supposed to be a democracy and have high moral standards and yet allows racism and segregation to be a matter of policy and law in its land? I am not going to ignore this fact and just blindly support any racially-quotaed country on the claim that it has been attacked.

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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-25-06 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. I too blindly supported Israel thinking that they "deserved" a
homeland after the Holocaust. I have , however, steadily been losing sympathy for the government of Israel, Zionism and the actions of Israel against their neighbors as well as the Palestinians. I really believe that this current over-kill will unmask them for the white European colonialist that they are. Their treatment of the native population is as morally bankrupt as is our own in this Country.
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stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-25-06 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Hard Pill to Swallow
I felt the same way about the US, and well, I became curious to some allegations I was hearing from the left. Then sure enough, I found out those people were correct.... starting 4 years ago, DU and many members still here, informed me even more. All I had to do is read... now I am informed and pissed off.

I just want the violence to stop.
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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-25-06 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. The truth will set you free, ... but first it will piss you off.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-26-06 03:23 AM
Response to Reply #10
23. That was my experience exactly and also the image I carried
around for the better part of twenty years.
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Truthiness Inspector Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-26-06 01:23 AM
Response to Reply #1
21. Allegations and accusations are a dime a dozen
If there is proof of this, then share that. Otherwise, anyone can allege and accuse, regardless of sound facts.
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-26-06 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #21
25. Will this do?
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-26-06 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #21
26. Straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak...
IDF to appeal human shield ban

The Israeli Defence Ministry will appeal against a supreme court ruling banning the use of Palestinian human shields in raids, officials said.

Defence Minister Shaul Mofaz is prepared to make a personal appearance in court to defend the practice, ministry officials added.

Human rights groups have frequently condemned the use of human shields.

The Israeli military believes that the use of Palestinian civilians can often defuse a tense situation.

more

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4333982.stm
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-26-06 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. Isn't it a war crime to use human shields?
Isn't it against the Geneva Conventions? Maybe only when Arabs do it? :eyes:
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-26-06 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. Simply put, the use of human shields is in contravention of
International law no matter who does it.
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-25-06 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
2. kick
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PDJane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-25-06 10:58 AM
Response to Original message
3. Not to mention......
Using a bullhorn to tell civilians to vacate their homes.......and then bombing the convoy when they do. Yes, Israel has done that this week.

It is a war crime.
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QuettaKid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-25-06 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. BBC.
well known anti-semites. what did you expect?

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:
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suziedemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-25-06 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. What is the picture at the bottom of your post.
and what do you mean by "it's time?" I see that picture a lot lately here at DU.

I've been to Israel and I'm always felt sorry for Israel, but it is getting hard to give them the benefit of the doubt anymore.
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Malikshah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-26-06 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #12
28. It's V from V for Vendetta
Movie's out on DVD on Aug 1

Remember, remember the fifth of November...

It is *indeed* time.
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K8-EEE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-25-06 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. That Was Truly Hideous
No excuse for that at all....a war crime.
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blonndee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-25-06 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
5. Kick.
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Wonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-25-06 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. General Discussion sure is moving quickly today. nt
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-25-06 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Indeed it is.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-25-06 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
13. Yeah, they've done it.
They've had Palestinian kids ring doorbells for them, too.

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Clarkie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-25-06 07:42 PM
Response to Original message
15. Is it wonderful that Israel operates it's military under the rule of law?
It is unfortunate Hezbollah and Hamas do not do likewise.
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PDJane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-26-06 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Always easier to do
When you make the law, and the law favours your occupation of lands that aren't yours.

It's a very nice situation for Israel, because even a palestinian building a home on his own land is disobeying the law.......he can't get a permit.
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Truthiness Inspector Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-26-06 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. What land is Israel "occupying"? n/t
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PDJane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-26-06 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #20
31. Pretty much Palestine......
And they have scooped control of the aquifiers. That was the Camp David accord argument.

Go here:

http://www.naiadonline.ca/book/palhist.html

and/or here:

http://www.sunship.com/mideast/info/maps/israel-and-occupied-territories-map.html

To get a sense of why Palestinians are fighting back.
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-26-06 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. Under which law do you target UN outposts and ambulances?
Sounds rather bush* cabalish to me--oh, and against international law as well.
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Truthiness Inspector Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-26-06 01:12 AM
Response to Original message
19. This is odd
I'll believe it when I see it, notice the headline is "accusations."
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-26-06 03:22 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. 20 July 2006: Israeli Soldiers use civilians as Human Shields in Beit Hanu
20 July 2006: Israeli Soldiers use civilians as Human Shields in Beit Hanun

B'Tselem's initial investigation indicates that, during an incursion by Israeli forces into Beit Hanun, in the northern Gaza Strip, on 17 July 2006, soldiers seized control of two buildings in the town and used residents as human shield.

After seizing control of the buildings, the soldiers held six residents, two of them minors, on the staircases of the two buildings, at the entrance to rooms in which the soldiers positioned themselves, for some twelve hours. During this time, there were intense exchanges of gunfire between the soldiers and armed Palestinians. The soldiers also demanded that one of the occupants walk in front of them during a search of all the apartments in one of the buildings, after which they released her.

International humanitarian law forbids using civilians as human shields by placing them next to soldiers or next to military facilities, with the intention of gaining immunity from attack, or by forcing the civilians to carry out dangerous military assignments.

B'Tselem has demanded that the Judge Advocate General immediately order a Military Police investigation into the matter and prosecute the soldiers responsible for the action.

http://www.btselem.org/english/Human_Shields/20060720_Human_Shields_in_Beit_Hanun.asp
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-26-06 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. Thanks for the confirmation, sfexpat2000
and for the link to that excellent site.

:toast:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-26-06 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #24
30. Sure.
:hi:
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