What I think Israel should have done

[cali]

They should have traded prisoners for the captured IDF soldiers. Yes, it would have been painful, and yes the prisoner that H'zbollah most wants released is a despicable character, but trading him and Palestinians, most of whom haven't got blood on their hands would have saved so many lives and preserved a fledgling democracy. And after that? Israel should have made an attempt to work with those parts of the Lebanese government hostile to H'zbollah to come up with a plan for Lebanon to secure their southern border. If that didn't work, Israel would have every right to try and rout out H'zbollah in Southern Lebanon.

What ifs are stupid, I know, but I can't help thinking that with wiser, less right wing types in charge in Israel, the obscene disaster that is unfolding, could have been avoided.

Here's an article about Samir Kunar, whose release is so important to H'zbollah.

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/world/15100638.htm

[acmejack]

1. You are correct-he is a terrible person

What was striking is that he did all this at age 16. It speaks volumes about what we are dealing with here, of course we see it to a much lesser degree right here on this normally amicable discussion board. I think you are exactly right as to what would have been a much wiser course of action on Israel's part, but we all know what "they" say about hindsight.

[cali]

2. I suppose what i'm saying

is despite the terrible crime he committed, Israel should have just sucked it up and released him as part of a trade. So many innocent people would have lived or not been grievously injured or turned into refugees. Israel made a choice to disregard the lives of the Lebanese.

[PATRICK]

3. Despite the fact

that no Israeli policy would ever condone a deal, this whole incident was a spark for a well prepared and necessary larger policy objective in which the soldiers mean nothing except as symbolic rallying points for the population. To even state that cynical certainty would raise hackles with most Israelis- which is exactly the point.

It is not over-reaction, but necessary ground clearing for the tragic drama Israel is lurching toward in the bloody-handed trajectory of a long Sharon policy of regional pacification by force. Specifically it is the Iran/US war which is at an early stage, but not too early that israel has been singled out as the main target of iranian reaction. They are not waiting around and they are not defending themselves on the small picture but in the larger one and in the gambit for eventual total victory in the ME.

Victory in the ME: (all factors listed not just the mice or dastardly ones)overthrowing all client states
of terrorism and anti-Israeli policy, all states in fact that do not crush such groups, democratizing as means to dissipate and divide Muslims into impotence, outlasting oil wealth and power and prohibiting nuclear arms until the region is withered basket case of harmless bickering natives, trying to maintain the religious state by a smorgasbord of Palestinian apartheid, second class Arab Israelis, a Lebanese Christian pariah state freed of Arab pluralism also, a permanent US Empire presence is required to make any or all of this work.

Looking at this and at horrors necessary to sustain this uphill battle which has been the case for millennia a sane person and spiritual one would emigrate. That's what Jesus warned about the Roman occupation/Jewish resistance. It is not just the Temple that will be rebuilt by the universal messiah, it is the very possibility of universal peace that seems to be the crux of what that odd acreage off the Mediterranean is all about. If not the Messiah(shock and awe), then I suggest the real battle, also a long and heartless one, is to challenge the entire human community to resolve these issues as one. Having been exiled and persecuted and abandoned, most of those in control of Israel's destiny do not trust this necessity- and prefer to go down fighting like the Jews at Masada. Choosing life seems the greater danger, but it alone holds the true promise.

One of the great tragedies of Biblical history is a common human one. Reacting to the last disaster avoids the new answers to today. Israel could be strong for peace. The nukes were enough to guarantee safety in that risk for a certain window of opportunity that is closing. A radical break from this headlong plunge into destruction IS possible. Note South Africa and India. But the longer this goes the more evil is sown and the higher the price for starting what should have been done long ago. And in this it is the whole world, not just Israel, that must make peace.

[cali]

4. Actually, Israel

has traded prisoners for captured IDF troops before. Or to be more precise, for the bodies of IDF troops.

And frankly, I subscribe more the the overreaction theory than your more convoluted regional dominance one.

[PATRICK]

6. The exception proves the rule

In active conflict they do not exchange anything. It depends on what they are facing and what "face" is involved. The appearance of being coerced is what must be avoided to stave off future ransom demands.

You are right enough about the over-reaction reality. As a force in motion that has its own impetus and as 999% of everyone involved or spectating believe, that is what it is. For the primary causes and exploiters and even top planners of the reaction they at least LIKE to reason wider concerns. It is these concerns,plans, that in fact unleash the greatest over-reaction that everyone involved finds so shocking and incomprehensible- as for example we found the Iraq war resolution votes of some of our leading Democrats.

Some say that the story was overblown to sell this "over-reaction" to the press, conveying a familiar Gulf of Tonkin predetermination into a useful provocation. Not knowing and not mind-reading, and in complicated territory, my guess is Israel is willing to pay the price of world opinion and questionable results for a real present security concern which is far greater than Hizbollah and their rockets and certainly more important than the citizenry of either country who must suffer through this.

[Marie26]

5. They did that before,

in 2004, right? Israel released more than 20 Hizbollah & Palestinian leaders in exchange for one Israeli businessman & the bodies of 3 soldiers. What did it get them? More captured IDF soldiers. I dunno, it seems like they've tried the peaceful, calm, negotiating route already, & are now using the war-mongering, ruthless route. I totally agree that wiser leaders could have stopped some of the war crimes that we're seeing from Israel. Even Ariel Sharon might've been better. It seems like the new Olmert gov. is trying to prove how strong & tough they are by taking it out on Lebanon. So, I sort of understand why this campaign was undertaken, but totally disagree w/how it was done.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

7. They Should Have Made The Trade

However an opposing argument can be made that this "fight" was inevitable.

[oberliner]

8. The UN Resolution

The UN Resolution called for the withdrawal of Israeli forces from Lebanon and the disbanding and disarming of Hezbollah.

Israel withdrew from Lebanon to the satisfaction of the United Nations which certified that withdrawal.

The resolution called for the extension of the control of the Government of Lebanon over all Lebanese territory in addition to the aforementioned disarming and disbanding of Hezbollah.

At this point, the international community should have done everything it could to work with the Lebanese government to come ensure that Hezbollah was disarmed and that Lebanon could secure their southern border. (I believe it is fair to say that the government of Lebanon would not have been particularly keen on working with Israel itself in this endeavour).

Attempts were made to bring about the situation you describe and they were not succesful, and there was no indication that they would be succesful any time in the future.

As you posted:

"If that didn't work, Israel would have every right to try and rout out H'zbollah in Southern Lebanon."

I would argue that the attempts did not work and that, therefore, the latter part of that statement is correct.

(And no, this does not mean that Israel therefore has the right to kill civilians, and yes, I am aware that Israel has ignored lots of UN Resolutions.)

[Igel]

9. Hezbollah considers returning the bodies of

dead soldiers as roughly equivalent to returning the bodies of living soldiers.

They want Kuntar, give them Kuntar on terms that they most assuredly would understand as sound imitation of Hezbollah practices.