Clinton is Cooked

[wadestock]

and I hope you know...."you know what I mean"....

It's just the beginning of the end for her.
The sooner the better.

She will represent....at the MOST...the type of circus that occured in 2004.

As a matter of fact, Sharpton is actually more articulate than she is.
I'm watching him right now on Hardball.

GET THE HE_ _ OUT Hillary.
This is not about vindicating the Clinton name or whatever it might mean to you and your family.

Let the democratic party go forward, with pride, and with some chance of winning in 2008.

[Stephanie]

1. I'm sorry, I second that.

Get out of the way, Hillary. You will surely lead us down the garden path to defeat if you don't sensibly stand aside. The stakes are too high. It's not about you. Stand aside.

[SPKrazy]

8. As Dukakis' Campaign Manager Says

and I can't recall her name

"the Clintons suck the oxygen out of the room whenever they speak"

I love Bill, and I don't think that Hillary has anything to make up for Bill!

But Hillary isn't a viable candidate in the real time JMHO

[cantstandbush]

106. No she is not. She is only "cooked" with the people who hated her

anyway. Even MLK might have used that analogy. Most African-Americans I spoke with today are not offended in anyway by her remarks. One even said that the entire country IS a plantation.

[tridim]

2. Where did that come from?

Today is the first time in years that I can be proud of Senator Clinton. She kicked some serious GOP ass today.. However, I still don't want her to run for President.

[enid602]

7. Hillary

I second your comments. One of the first times someone has had to courage to call Bush what he is.

[raysr]

14. I agree. If the MSM and

the pukes are against it it's a good thing. It just baffles me why people here beat up Hillary knowing what glee it gives the pukes. Anybody bashing Bush publicly is a good thing.

[wadestock]

60. Yes bashing is great

I do it everyday.
But I'm not running for president.

She can get away with it as senator...that's fine.

[Oceansaway]

17. i'm gonna 3rd that....

i'm proud as hell for them 3 to stand up to this corrupt group of thugs....i dont want her on the '08 ticket either....but hey, at least she's being heard.....and by the looks of things she got to them....i hope this is what Mr. Gore wanted.....:)

[robbedvoter]

67. Exactly. The timing of this is suspicious. Smells bad.

I feel like you, but won't let freepers manipulate me.

[davidwparker]

3. I would vote for her if she were the nominee, but I hope she never

enters the race.

Her goose was cooked for me when I realized the negative effects NAFTA was going to have on this country and never want her husband in the WH again.

[democracyindanger]

4. So you hope the ridiculous shrieking about

the "plantation" comment works?

Ooooookay...

[Name removed]

68. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[PWRinNY]

5. I'm sorry but

The only thing that Hillary has come out and said she's running for is senate re-election. She is my senator and my neighbor, and she's doing a great job for us. I am supporting her senate re-election wholeheartedly. I can't bash someone I'm voting for this November. Sorry.

[tinfoilinfor2005]

18. Very good point. The last I'd heard, the only race she is presently

considering is the Senate race. And I have heard others in your state remark about the great job she is doing, so she deserves your loyalty and I commend you for speaking up for her.

P.S. Welcome to DU! :hi:

[Ladyhawk]

119. I'm not trying to be a smartass, but what has she done for New York?

Really, I'd like to hear a good list.

I really don't want her to run for president, but I'd like to hear why you think she's a good senator.

[neverevergivein]

6. She assures of of a GOP Prez in '08

I'm sorry to say. We have to get a real Democrat that the people WILL rally behind.

[pretzel4gore]

24. the american people are like a crowd on a runaway bus

doing 80 down a hill with a big canyon yawing at the bottom....you think we bystanders should plead with them to, 'dammit, pull the drunk driver away from the controls and hit the brakes..' etc! or at least get outta the way while a democrat does what's necessary! and why should anyone have to clue them in that flying off into space at 90 mph and smashing into the ground isn't wise, and on top of that, the bus will be finished as transportation (sometimes, logic works with dipsticks)...

[babylonsister]

9. I think you're listening to way too much corp. news.

I am glad she finally spoke out and will support her if she's nominated.
I don't endorse her, but your comments aren't helping any to try to
unite a fractured party.

[raysr]

20. The pukes and the MSM

convinced everyone that Dean was a loser too, do agree with them there? Yeah, run Dean they said, we'd love that. Because secretly they knew we'd get Kerry. That worked out didn't it?

[babylonsister]

28. There's lots I don't agree with, but I will take what

small progress I can. I see Hillary's speech as progress, and I'll be
damned if I'll start bashing Dems. Too many people do it; I won't.

[bigtree]

10. al defended hillary against the republicans

something we should continue to do also

[wadestock]

15. Don't get me wrong

I've posted innumerable times concerning Bill...the ultimate overachieving president...hell bent to be one of the best presidents of all time....and dam close he came....and with Gore, the best Anti-Reaganite team that we may ever see again.

But this is a different time.
The stakes are too high.

The republican machine will make mince meat of her.
Let's not fool ourselves.

And BTW...thank you Al Gore for one of the most heartfelt speeches to bring us back to why we should reach deep down inside and understand what it means to be a democrat....

we need this type of maturity.
we need this type of depth of thinking...

Anti-Bushco will go just so far.

Clark/Gore 2008?

[bigtree]

33. they take apart anyone we refuse to defend

[goclark]

128. Correct! She should be praised

How anyone on this board, that cries all day long because Democrats DON'T speak out can have the nerve to bash her `````

[Bluebear]

11. Actually it's the first compelling thing I have heard her say in a while.

[OrangeCountyDemocrat]

12. No Clinton & NO Kerry In '08 - PLEEEEEAAAAAASSSSEEEEE!!

[politicasista]

72. You must be really scared of Hillary and Kerry

Interesting. :boring:

[stevietheman]

89. Yeah, scared they'll lose badly. n/t

n/t

[seabeyond]

13. you are going to make me start suppporting her BECCAUSE of this bullshit

the woman did something great in her speech and this is what you come up with.

[wadestock]

21. My friend

It is not great.
It will bring the party down.

And it seriously will fuel a knee jerk reaction in the "red states".

It's just fuel for Limbaugh et al...and we don't need that.

What's the only thing that really works against Bushco, Limbaugh, et al?

It's why the Democratic Party IS great...and what we really stand for.
Go on-line and read a few of Clark's speeches...especially his town hall in New Hampshire prior to the election.

[tridim]

26. So the Dems should shut up because of Limbaugh?

That's pure crap.

[wadestock]

34. You didn't even read my post

Limbaugh will be shut DOWN....if we have people who stand tall....and who articulate the REAL MEANING of being a democrat.

WE CARE ABOUT PEOPLE.
WE DON'T GAIN ANY GROUND BY BEING AS DIRTY AS THE REPUKES.

We need more democratic representatives to STAND TALL...and be proud....just like Al Gore did today.

Al Gore's speech almost made me forget about how pathetic Hillary was.

[tridim]

41. Hillary spoke the truth through metaphor

The truth is not dirty.. Unless you're a Republican.

[Carni]

49. How is Hillary stating the truth going to *bring the party down*

To clarify I want her right where she is-the senate and not running for Pres... but how is her stating that congress are the slaves of the Whitehouse a big insulting thing?

Who's insulted? That cross eyed idiot on Hardball? Rush and Hannity? Please-

Who gives a flying fuck--I have watched 5 years of strategy and parsing issues and whatever else and it doesn't work, the bushites still cheat and they stay in power.

If they are going to cheat and stay in power I at least want to hear some dissent.

Screw all this bullshit about being polite because some republican asshole might be waiting to *paint the dems in a bad light* DON'T THEY ALWAYS?

And who gives a shit what that hillbilly heroin addled jack ass Rush has to say- his listeners are THE MINORITY.

[donco6]

69. I get it now - Clark supporters.

I've been wondering what was behind the bash Hillary threads today.

[robbedvoter]

79. BS! I'm a Clark supporter and angry as hell at these threads

Please don't assume this BS about Clark supporters! I want an apology!!!

[donco6]

84. You and everyone else!

:)

And I like Clark, too. But not at the expense of others - particularly non-candidates. I mean, Jeez.

[robbedvoter]

87. I don't recognize any Clarkie in this thread - stop assuming that

we behave disgracefully like this.

[robbedvoter]

130. I am seing Clarkies now - all defending Hillary's speech - eat your words!

Still waiting for an apology from you.

[Guaranteed]

66. Ha ha. nt

[GregD]

16. Hillary and electronic voting

Besides being a polarizing figure to the Right, she has had the worst possible positions on the e-voting issue. Her S1986 bill was awful (http://www.verifiedvoting.org/article.php?id=5038), full of loopholes, and could not be a stronger message as to what she feels about the democratic process. If she were the only choice against another repuke administration, and nobody else could be offered as a viable alternative, I'd just leave. She is worthless IMO.

[wiley]

19. Hillary Clinton was Great!

Really, your attitude is way out of line. What she said was true, and needed to be said. I really don't care to hear any more negativity. I can get that from any Freeper or Troll or Puker on the net.

Did you disagree with what she had to say? Then why don't you just state that.

[raysr]

23. Right on wiley

I'm with you on that!

[wiley]

29. Raysr!

:applause:

[warbly]

25. disagree the plantation remark was Great

good for Hillary for trying to show some backbone but that remark was foolish. A Plantation? so the majority has the minority doing slave labor? lousy metaphor. Now the MSM is playing up GOP outrage as Gore's fantastic speech is shoved off the pages entirely. great going hillary.
I don't think she is Presidential material, and she still hasn't condemnded the Warrantless wiretaps?
WTF is up with that?
sucking up to the right again? doesn't want to piss off george bush or what?

[wiley]

32. So noted

But I have seen the Gore speech covered in two different major markets. It's on the front page of several major dailies and the net.
I also have no problem with the plantation metaphor. It was hardly a speech that sucked up to the RW or Bush.

[wadestock]

30. Your logical argument is flawed.

There is more grandstanding than truth in what she said.

The truth is the repukes are terribly exploitative of blacks.
But where does that take us?

ESPECIALLY on Martin Luther King day....THE man who championed peace and a new vision that meant fighting WITHIN the system....against all odds.

My ATTITUDE is realistic....and it is very much IN-LINE with the articulation of a unified democratic position which doesn't simply rest it's case on the demonization of the repukes.

The repukes are the kings of demonization.

We go higher.
We win with the American Dream.

And in the process....we don't demean the great Dr. King's dream either.

[wiley]

42. Heavy

Demean King's dreams? No agreement with you there. I have no interest in arguing with you.

[oasis]

99. Wow. Wadestock for president. And I mean that.

[EuroObserver]

22. From this distance, Hillary looks lke very bad news.

Suggest bring back Al Gore.

Probably Clarke as VP.

[raysr]

27. She's not running for

president for cristssake, let her beat up *. Don't bash her until she starts running for pres. I REALLY think this Hillary bashing sucks. If you don't support her, fine, but don't do the freeper's work for them.

[Lusted4]

40. I think every Dem in office should be speaking out just like her.

Lets worry about 2008 in 2008.

[EuroObserver]

44. Ok Ok

There a job to do right now, right? :patriot:

[rodeodance]

31. oh for heavens sake. Give the woman a break!

[wadestock]

38. Yes all the respect in the world

the minute she makes a national announcement that she has no intention whatsover to run for president in 2008.

I LOVE THE CLINTONS!!!

But we have to start right now....even especially before the move to take the senate back in 2006....who the REAL frontrunner is.

IT IS CERTAINLY NOT HER!!!!!

[kathy14-0]

35. I used to love Hillary

And lately she has been so disappointing and so 'establishment.' Republican-lite, if you will.

[ncrainbowgrrl]

39. Welcome to DU, kathy14-0!

:hi:

[kathy14-0]

50. Thanks!

Too much stuff here I'm interested in, I'm a little overwhelmed!

[mtnsnake]

125. She's "Republican-lite"? Prove it!

What exactly has she done to be "Republican-lite"??? Senator Clinton ranks near the top when it comes to voting progressively on all the issues, so how about coming up with some evidence to back up your claim that she's anything that approaches "Republican". Take you time...

[Burning Water]

36. Hillary,

Kerry, Gore. The toxic three that will drag the Democratic party to defeat, if they are the nominees.

I'll vote for them if they make it that far, but I can't support them until they do.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wadestock]

45. I posted probably over 500 posts

in support of democrats during the 2004 race.

Don't even go there.

Hillary's comments sicken me.

Whereas Clark's comments enlighten me....lift me above all the BS....and make me proud to be a democrat.

That's exactly where we should be going.

[babylonsister]

57. Honestly, when was the last time you heard Clark 'say'

anything, except on Fox? I like the man, but haven't seen him in a long time.
I know he has press releases as well, but really! Has he even said whether he
wants to run?:shrug:
I realize the corp. media hasn't been getting anyone's message out there, so
I could be wrong.

[wadestock]

62. Could be very good strategy

If he was overworked and overplayed at this point...it would hurt.

BTW....notice the negative ranting of our beloved Moore on Clark.
I'm hoping he will carefully restrategize for 2008.
WE ALL have to be careful...because of the stakes involved.
That's all this is about.
Remember Dean's innocent rant?

The playing field is not fair.

This is exactly why I'm trying to point out the obvious.
Hillary would have to really come out and re-intellectualize her statement....which might carry her through 2006 which is great....

But we should bite the bullet...and her too....it's over for her in 2008.

[0007]

46. Many.......

[wiley]

47. Along with Third Party agitators?

Quite a few.

[Catherine Vincent]

58. too many

[0007]

43. Only in you're dreams sweetheart!

[wadestock]

48. Yes

My dream that the democratic party becomes great again.

[0007]

52. No one questioning that!

[oasis]

51. In 2008 she'll be cookin' with gas...inside the White House. Do you

know what I mean?

[Dr Fate]

53. She needs to remain a Democratic Senator for a while. n/t

n/t

[wadestock]

56. Yes....

be quite and be a great senator.

Which means quite simply....
Appologize as soon as possible.

But...
End the race for presidency at the same time.

[Dr Fate]

59. Be quiet and apologize for what?

I wont be supporting her nomination, but she has the right to speak out as she pleases.

[mom cat]

54. I want to see if she will take a stand and vote to filibuster Alito!

[wadestock]

55. AND BY THE WAY

TRENT LOTT HAD ALREADY SUCCEEDED IN PUTTING THE REPUBLICANS PROVERBIAL FOOT IN THEIR COLLECTIVE MOUTHS.....

SO WE REALLY DIDN'T NEED TO BE REMINDED OF IT ON MARTIN LUTHER KING DAY.

In other words.
It wasn't necessary.
And extremely demonstrative of her lack of sense.

[Dr Fate]

61. I dont get it- Trent Lott is an old-timey racist, The Clintons are not.

How in the world do you equate someone who points out GOP racism with that racism itself?

[wadestock]

63. GEEZE

Explanation....

Trent Lott is the real piece of chit.

Hillary Clinton is not.

So...

By simple analogy.

When someone who has morals acts like someone who doesn't....
People tend to identify the GOOD person with BAD.

This is not about us standing on a soap box to proclaim our superiority to these pieces of chit.

It's about us carefully...
And intelligently...
Articulating a position that jives with the American Dream.

That's what we are.
And that's what we need.

[Dr Fate]

65. Right- and pointing out GOP racism is bad because.....

...if we do so, the media will be mean to us.

Is that what you are saying?

Last time I checked, GOP racism does not "jive with the American Dream" whether the media likes Hillary pointing it out or not.

I'm glad Hillary was blunt and candid for once- I'd like to see more of this.

[robbedvoter]

71. I take it you're black - as you're so very passionate about this

Right?
Cuz, until I veryfy this , I will go with Conyers' endorsement of her speech and the thunderous applause she's got in the church.

[LittleClarkie]

75. I assume that in the middle of Harlem, it was black folks she was talking

to? That would be my guess.

[robbedvoter]

85. Yes, and they loved it!

It's just the white boys in the CorpMedia that were 'offended' and their little kindred spirits that unfortunately post here.

[LittleClarkie]

97. That's enough for me

It would seem to be patronizing to get offended on someone's behalf when they weren't offended.

[RoyGBiv]

92. BS ...

MLK Day was the *perfect* time for it.

[MoonRiver]

64. I think the speech has been overblown. But I DO NOT want her to run.

It's her voting record and opportunistic, hypocritical posturing that infuriates me. NO MORE DINOS.

[LittleClarkie]

70. She makes a strong statement against Bush and she is cooked?

I thought we wanted Dems with spine. No?

What odd timing.

[babsbunny]

73. I just heard on Olbermann that Newt Gingrich

said the very same thing about the Dems a while back. Just Google it.

[politicasista]

74. Haven't we had enough Hillary bashing? n/t

[PBass]

88. Not sure that the Plantation comment should be taken so literally

To me, it means 'rubber stamp" mentality. It was not a reference to racism. It was used becuase it was a reference that the audience wouldn't need an explanation for.

I thought she gave a great performance. You weak-kneed Dems who are afraid she might offend someone, or give Rush Limbaugh ammunition by speaking out, GROW A SPINE. It's going to take some courage and some boldness and somebody's feelings are bound to get hurt. GET OVER IT!

The current crop of Democrats have already tried to play it safe WAY TOO MUCH already, and it is a sure-fire LOSING FORMULA. Democrats who muzzle themselves and censor themselves and try to appease people and not ruffle anyone's feathers are going to LOSE. It doesn't matter how badly the GOP is doing, unless the Pink TuTu Dems GROW A SPINE they will NOT win elections.

Dems need to play HARDBALL and when they do I will gladly say BRAVO.

BRAVO, MRS CLINTON!

[carolinalady]

76. The only people that Hillary pissed off are the ones that don't

like her already. I hope she does run. I will be working my ass for her.

[Dr Fate]

77. Good for you- her speech was truthful...

...I wont be supporting her in the primaries, but she will bring spirit to the primaries.

Good luck to you & your candidate!!!

[RoyGBiv]

78. WTF!?!?

I mean seriously :wtf:

The strongest, most purely *democratic* statement yet to issue from her mouth comes out today, and *this* is your reply? Just what are you thinking?

I'm not Hillary fan -- not by a long shot -- but I have enough sense not to make that kind of comment today, the day she actually did something with which a huge proportion of Democrats, and no small number of others, agree fully. That's just senseless. I liked her today, applauded her, literally. If she were like that all the time, I'd love her.

It just amazes me how this all works. Democrats stand up. They're morons. They cower. They're morons. Politicians might be forgiven for not being able to make up their damn minds on how to act. Their constituents are psychotic.

[RoyGBiv]

80. Dupe n/t

[robbedvoter]

83. WTF indeed! When DUers&freepers hold hands - something stinks!

I want Hillary - AND EVERY DEMOCRAT to stand up - and I shall praise and celebrate their courage.
Unlike the freeper little numbnuts on this thread!

[RoyGBiv]

90. Stinks like a festering outhouse ...

Without accusing anyone specifically, I have to agree. I fully understand that hatred of Hillary crosses all political boundaries, but the timing of shit like this (and not just this thread) is simply too much. She does something *right*, and that makes her wrong? Puhleeze.

We see it with a lot of people, not just Hillary. Whenever a Dem comes out with a very strong, clear statement, a vocal minority will come along, so regularly it hardly seems accidental, and start trashing them for something.

I'm really pretty sick of it.

[Rodger Dodger]

81. To the contrary :it the Republican Party that is cooked!

She's just simmering, spoiling for a good fight. When the public, and corporate America has had enough of G.W.'s idea of a health care policy, they'll look for Hillary, when the time is right.

They'll demand a single payer health care plan funded by the GOVERNMENT. YES socialized health care like the rest of those around the world.

Remember your Roman History ...the power in a Republic lies in the Senate. She can do much more there just watch and listen.

[raysr]

82. Every Dem,

and I mean EVERY Dem needs to screaming from the rafters what these bastards are doing!

[stevietheman]

86. Gore and Clark are the only viable candidates as of now

Kerry isn't a fighter, doesn't have a message, and is too good at contradicting himself.

Hillary is just a frumpy mess who nobody likes and nobody trusts, and still she can't shake her support of the criminal Iraq war.

Gore and Clark are both political powerhouses who will energize Democrats as well as independents.

[wadestock]

102. Well stated

And thanks for reminding any disbeliever here just how "Kerry light" a potential democratic candidate for president could possibly be.

I mean you could almost rationalize LIEberman's position on Iraq.
But where in God's name is Hillary coming from?

Kerry carefully articulated the need for increased troops and how America had to eventually plan to draw down....and never came across as supporting the war...and even HE was completely misunderstood.

Here a for real Vietnam hero wasn't even understood.....so explain to me how Hillary could ever talk her way out of whatever she believes with this failed "regime change".

It is absolutely beyond belief that she could be considered THE frontrunner.

She has...without certainty...put the issue to rest....with her own all too soon to implode mouth.

[ProSense]

91. Should have heard when she said it in Nov. 04

She said live on CNN when Republicans were in the process of changing the ethics rules to protect DeLay:

AMERICAN MORNING

Aired November 18, 2004 - 07:00 ET

snip...

CLINTON: Well, what can I say? It's just so typical. I mean, they're running the House of Representatives like a fiefdom with Tom Delay, you know, in charge of the plantation. I think it's kind of a sad commentary. I don't think it's good for Democracy. I don't think it's good for the Republican Party. But again, I don't have a vote in the Republican caucus in the House; they'll decide what they want to do, but one would hope that they would not be so quick to change the rules when it affects their leader. They certainly wanted to apply the harshest of rules to Democratic leaders for so many years.


http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0411/18/ltm.01.html

Go Hillary!

[desi]

93. Ring A Bell..???

Mr. Shaw said it much better than this bleeding heart Liberal could ever say it. And this DEM bashing will drive more away than the Freepers could ever hope to. I'm almost there.

One U.S. Liberal's Advice to Progressive Canadians: Don't Make The Same Mistake We Did

"As an American, this current Canadian election reminds me of our 2000 elections. A Democratic administration was coming off an impeachment controversy, and a very conservative Republican was running as a "compassionate conservative." The progressives flocked to NDP kindred spirit Ralph Nader, while too many moderates and liberals voted for Bush in the belief that for ethical reasons the party controlling the executive branch had to change- and that Bush couldn't be all that conservative."

THIS is what got us Roberts and will most likely get us Scalito....


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/russell-shaw/one-us-liberals-advice_b_13929.html

[Catherine Vincent]

94. Can't believe six idiots recommended this thread.

[desi]

95. I can believe it..

..and betcha each and every one is on somebody's ignore list..maybe mine..btw, Is there a limit...??

[wadestock]

98. Let us in our your insight

as to where the democratic party should be heading.

This makes Dean's RAHAHAHAHA look like a walk in the park.

[Catherine Vincent]

123. Okay, I apologize for calling the posters idiots for recommending

this thread. That was mean of me.

[hiley]

96. Congressman Conyers: Hillary Speaks

Hillary Speaks -- Right Wing Blames the Messenger

Well they are at it again. Hillary Clinton spoke at her MLK Day speech -- referring to the Bush Administration as "one of the worst" in history, and comparing the House of Representatives to a "plantation." Instead of responding to the factual assertions, the right wing attacked the messenger, deriding her language, and ignoring the fundamental problem.

This is part of a pattern -- when the President lied to us about the Iraq-Niger connection, they blamed Joe Wilson; when the NSA warrantless spying program was made public, they argued that the whistleblowers were the problem; when 122 Members asked Bush about the Downing Street Minutes, they said we didn't matter, since I was against the war; when Howard Dean told the truth about Iraq they said he was extreme; when we complained about the PATRIOT Act, we were called unpatriotic. The list goes on and on. We now have a Republican party steeped in abuse and corruption, and the best they can do is ignore the problems they have created for this country and blame the Democrats for pointing out the obvious.

I don't always agree with Hillary, but she spoke the truth yesterday, and the Republicans need to address her charges head on instead of attacking her personally.

<clip>

http://www.conyersblog.us/archives/00000355.htm

[oasis]

103. Conyers backs Hill's comments. That should be good enough for all.

[wadestock]

108. REPUBLICANS DON'T SPEAK THE TRUTH

And just in the same way that you wouldn't win your boss's job by pointing out his corruption and indescretions....

You will win the job by outmaneuvering...
By out calculating...
By convincing people that you actually deserve the job.
And by simply doing a better job.

You don't get the job by pointing out your rival's inadequacies.

[hiley]

113. Hillary finally spoke the truth yesterday

and you are wanting her to shut up and get back in the GOP lite box. That is just wrong!

[upi402]

100. Sharpton is brilliant, Clinton is a corporatist DINO

I wonder if he's too hip for the crowd...

[journalist3072]

101. I could not disagree with you more. She was absolutely correct

Let's examine the facts here. The facts will show that the House is indeed run like a plantation.

- When Rep. John Conyers held his forum on Media Bias, the Republicans would not even let him have it in a regular hearing room. He was forced to have it in a small room in a basement of one of the House buildings. And if my memory serves me correctly, I think Randi Rhodes had made mention that they would not even let him call it a "hearing."

- The Republicans have a habit of holding votes open for an extended period of time (longer than votes are normally held open for). Specifically, they do this when they realize they are short a few votes, or the vote will be too close). They hold the votes open so they can twist arms.

- They force votes on bills before the Dems have even had a chance to fully read the bill.

[wadestock]

104. Yes you are right on all of this.....

Did you see Dean self-destruct with something 1/100th of this?

Regardless of the truth....can you articulate what positive strategic effect this will have on the party?

Does this in any way mean those swing voters across America will come over to the Democratic side?

Did it ever occur to you that we are at the point of potentially losing our country to such an insidious momentum of political self-destruction....so carefully orchestrated by the repukes for us to sink into....and hope that we self-destruct.... that our party may never get the Whitehouse again?

HAVE YOU EVER NOTICED THAT THE OVERALL WEAKNESS OF OUR CURRENT DEMOCRATIC REPRESENTATIVES IS THEIR INABILITY TO ARTICULATE THE AMERICAN DREAM AND WHY WE SHOULD BE PROUD TO BE DEMOCRATS????????????????????

[Neecy]

105. oh, please

The only person who cares about this is Matthews because he has a bizarre pathological hatred of the Clintons. Even the GOP shill O'Donnell brushed it off tonight.

Hillary isn't my top choice either, but I think this is much ado about nothing. Hell, if she ripped into Bush and the corrupt Republican Congress daily between now and my primary I might actually come around to supporting her.

[wadestock]

111. Yes it's much to do about nothing.....

Just like the abortion issue is much to do about nothing....Dems simply don't support abortion as a cause...but want to limit it.

Does the majority of swing voters understand?

Just like gun control is much to do about nothing. Dems don't believe in taking guns away...but reasonable gun control

Does the majority of Red states or other swing voters get that?

We live in a world of subtle political bloopers and stink bombs....especially after the repukes have rewired much of the nation's brains to think superficially and anti-liberal.

Much to do about nothing isn't going to be anything we can fall back on.....or help us rise the great Democratic party above this almost insurmountable sea of BS and become great again.

[benEzra]

114. Define "reasonable gun control"...

Just like gun control is much to do about nothing. Dems don't believe in taking guns away...but reasonable gun control

Define "reasonable gun control."

If you mean background checks and enforcing the laws against gun possession and use by criminals, no problem.

If, on the other hand, you mean outlawing nonhunting-style guns, like my wife's 15-round pistol and the modern-looking small-caliber rifles sitting in our gun safe, then no, it IS a big deal in my state (NC), where half of Dems and indies own guns.

[im10ashus]

112. Amen!

Let her rip them new ones every day for a freaking year. They need to be scorned like the spoiled brats they are.

[im10ashus]

107. She finally said something worthwhile.

And NOW we are going to bash her? I don't get it. She hasn't said she's running for the White House. At least in 2008. YET we are already bashing her efforts? I am a New York resident and she is running for Senator next year. That's all I need to know. I don't prefer that she run for president in 2008, but let's just let her campaign for her Senate reelection. OK? Thanks! :-)

[wadestock]

109. I agree...re-elect Hillary for Senate....

Point is....she's in.
She has widespread support for her Senate seat.

So what was to be gained by this outrageous rant on Martin Luther King Day?

I think if you think honestly about what just happened....you'd realize by tomorrow there will be a great rearticulation and/or appology of this....

which of course will be followed by her reelection in the Senate...

but

practically...she's cooked for any presidential run in 2008

[im10ashus]

110. I don't get how she's cooked...

...when she's not even jumped into the frying pan. She's running for Senate reelection in New York. If she apologizes I will be pissed. She's finally got some momentum from the people here in NY. She can't screw that up now.

[hopeisaplace]

116. I thought what she had to say was perfect..

the more that it's said, and covered by the media, the better for your
country..these words have a better chance of getting coverage by MSM when
they come from high profile democrats.

[im10ashus]

121. I agree.

Not the best choice of words, mind you, but effective.

[farmbo]

115. This is Nuts! Rightwingers always use the "plantation" theme against Dems

...but if Hillary uses it, she's a Biouch who is holding the Democrats back.

Check out these lovely RW websites:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=democrats+Plantation+&btnG=Search

(Just google "democrats plantation")

Here's a Rightwing article from last year entitled "The Democratic Plantation":

http://www.conservativetruth.org/article.php?id=2731

And the clincher: Newt Gingrich accused the House Democrats of running it like a a plantation in 1994...as he was engineering the GOP takeover. The exact quote was on Countdown this evening.

More fake Republican Outrage...and we're buying in. WTF?

Enough already. Whenever a Democrat shows some spine, the Republicans ALWAYS spin the story with their patented Fake Outrage, which the MSM dutifully echos (Remember Kerry's 'Dick Cheney's daughter is a lesbian' remark?). Alas, such is the way of the world.

But here on DU? If WE won't support Dems who tell the unvarnished truth...who the hell will?!?

[wadestock]

120. I fully support her for telling the truth

as a senator.
Not as a prospective candidate for President....who will only cause a circus for the party in 2008.

It's time for the party to start seriously thinking about where it's going.
It's not going anywhere with repukesk type lines or analogies.
It's not going anywhere by tearing down all the obvious things wrong with the republican party today.

People need to be pulled back into what the American dream IS...
not what it ISN'T.

[robbedvoter]

122. Huh? You started attacking her after the speech - NOT AN ELECTORAL ONE

how is this supporting her telling the truth?
After throwing at her every freepoid talking point you are weaseling off? What's this - the Dildo really show?
The straw man you built is blown away. She is presently nor running for anything, yet you run with the RW attack wolves when she speaks against W. What a crock!

[tavalon]

117. Huh?

Yes, she should get out and she should never even have considered getting in the race, but inarticulate?!? At this point, I hate the woman but I would never call her inarticulate. I wish she were inarticulate!

[deacon]

118. I don't support her for Prez and won't, but all this is much ado about

absolutely nothing. It was a bad analogy, she should have hit the scoundrel republicans in congress harder.

But, this whole story is a big yawn. Pundit opportunists are jumping on it of course, but what else is new.

At the end of the day we still have an illegal war, a president who broke the law, the cia leak, a disaster of a health care plan imposed and .....feel free to add to the list.

It's petty nonsense what Hillary did.

Too, remember the nutcases at Fox created a 'war on christmas'.

yanno....

[stepnw1f]

124. Whatever... Vote for McCain

GOP whinning... wah wah wah...

[goclark]

126. We are the ones "cooking" on the Bush Plantation

Speak Hillary, speak!

We are the SLAVES on a multicolored Plantation owned by the Bush Crime family.

Bravo Hillary.

Recall "vast right wing conspiracy" she was right then and she is RIGHT now.

[patrice]

127. I have to admit that I was really hurt and disappointed by her vote

to trust George Bush with War powers.

That is not to say she can't heal herself, but a person MUST draw a line somewhere (or you can't function) and this is my line. I want her to make it better, but I don't see how she can do that any time soon.

[rodeodance]

129. Hil can survive swiftboating by the RW (and others)--she is strong and I

am glad she is strong.

[Avalux]

131. Locking.

This post is inflammatory and has not facilitated appropriate discussion.