NYT: With Israeli Use of Force, Debate Over Proportion

[DeepModem Mom]

With Israeli Use of Force, Debate Over Proportion
By STEVEN ERLANGER
Published: July 19, 2006

JERUSALEM, July 18 — The asymmetry in the reported death tolls is marked and growing: some 230 Lebanese dead, most of them civilians, to 25 Israeli dead, 13 of them civilians. In Gaza, one Israel soldier has died from his own army’s fire, and 103 Palestinians have been killed, 70 percent of them militants.

The cold figures, combined with Israeli air attacks on civilian infrastructure like power plants, electricity transformers, airports, bridges, highways and government buildings, have led to accusations by France and the European Union, echoed by some nongovernmental organizations, that Israel is guilty of “disproportionate use of force” in the Gaza Strip and Lebanon and of “collective punishment” of the civilian populations.

Israel has heard these arguments before. Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni said, “Proportionality is not compared to the event, but to the threat, and the threat is bigger and wider than the captured soldiers.”

Israel is confronting a regional threat, she and the government argue, which begins with Iran and Syria and their proxy, Hezbollah, and stretches to the radical Islamic Palestinian group Hamas.

Nor does Israel deliberately single out civilians, she argued, as Hezbollah and Hamas do through rocket attacks and suicide bombings. Intent matters, she said....

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/19/world/middleeast/19israel.html?hp&ex=1153368000&en=b915aada25e0a0ce&ei=5094&partner=homepage

[Kagemusha]

1. I've had an epiphany. Israelis don't see the IDF dead as "soldiers".

They see them as a) civilians (due to conscription), and b) as heroes (civilian heroes defending the state).

Very Prussian concept, frankly. All completely justified in their own minds by the Holocaust and the Diaspora.

Now I see why they have absolutely no problem with bombing civilians over "military" deaths though.

[EFerrari]

2. What you resist, you become. nt

[Selatius]

3. The Neocons insist this is an attack by Syria/Iran by proxy

They would insist all of the destruction wrought on Lebanese civilian infrastructure is justified in proportion to the threat, regardless of the numbers of civilian dead however unfortunate and regrettable.

[Solo_in_MD]

4. I agree with the proxy part

and Nasrallah has shown his true colors and is not Lebanese patriot.

If you consider that the IAF was interdicting transportation and communication infrastructure, most all of the early targets make sense.

[EFerrari]

5. Yes, like that Red Crescent convoy.

:sarcasm: