Hey, the Bible says to massacre innocent women and children...

[blitzen]

so it must be the right thing to do, don't you think?


Samuel said to Saul, "The Lord sent me to anoint you king over his people of Israel; now therefore listen to the words of the Lord. Thus says the Lord of hosts: 'I will punish the Amalekites for what they did in opposing the Israelites when they came up out of Egypt. Now go and attack Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.'" <1 Samuel 15.1-3>





After all, as Richard Perle and friends wrote in 1996:
"Our claim to the land —to which we have clung for hope for 2000 years--is legitimate and noble."

http://www.iasps.org/strat1.htm

[blonndee]

1. That whole book is a lesson in genocide

and other crimes against humanity.

[Erika]

2. And why the Bible has no superiority over the Quran

They are both books written of the same culture. Glad to see the word getting out there. Pun just seen.

[JackNewtown]

4. Ditto

[EVDebs]

3. 'Slay the idolatoers wherever ye find them...' Sura 9.5

"But when Islam became powerful, Allah's eternal message changed. Islam could now "call people by the sword" -- that is, compel conversion -- and accordingly "verses of the sword" were conveniently revealed to the Prophet, verses that sanction and indeed command conversion of the Infidel by armed violence, which historically would be Islam's preferred method. Sura 2.256 was thus abrogated by a later verse, composed after Mohammed had conquered Mecca and was preparing his new Muslim empire for Jihad against the non-Muslim world: "Slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush" (Sura 9.5). This "verse of the sword" not only abrogates 2.256, but also abrogates well over a hundred earlier verses that formerly taught peace and tolerance toward non-believers."

http://www.library.flawlesslogic.com/verses.htm

Doesn't square with the God of love we've heard so much about in either case, does it ?

[blitzen]

7. both religions can be criticized as violent, and both can be defended

as peaceful and wise. (Don't ask me now about the defense of Islam--I could and probably will write a whole book on it. Let's save that discussion for another night.)

[akushuki]

5. lots of funny stuff in the bible

www.thebricktestament.com

[Erika]

6. The Quran and the Bible share the same culture

and have the same message.

[DanCa]

8. Hey Leviticus by the Siegal Schwall Blues Band

This song makes fun of the religious right. Check it out.

. Hey Leviticus - By Jim Schwall © 2004


Hey Leviticus, I need a little information
I'm afraid the guys next door are an abomination
They only got one bed, and all their friends are guys
Hey Leviticus, does god want them to die

Hey Leviticus, I've got this other neighbor
Who doesn't understand that Sunday's not for labor
I know he has to die, but do I have to be the one
Hey Leviticus, do you think I should get a gun

Hey Leviticus, I got a kid who's drivin me crazy
I'm thinking about sellin her into slavery
So how much do you ask, for a 13-year-old kid
Hey Leviticus, should I just take the highest bid

Hey Leviticus, I got a problem with my village
When I defeat a foe they won't let me plunder and pillage
And they won't let me burn a lamb on the altar to celebrate
Hey Leviticus, will god accept a gyro plate

[blitzen]

9. that's pretty good...and funny

[DanCa]

11. Thank You

If you like Big Band Blues music you should check them out. The albulm is Flash Forward.

[sam sarrha]

10. Jehovah and Allah are Demi-gods, jealously is the quality of a dem-god

pride is the quality or failing of a real god..

the Demi-gods are trouble makers, always causing wars and crap.. the real gods are too busy being blissed to get involved in the insignificant paltry doing of humans.. also too busy fighting off the demi-gods too, they are jealous and always wanting something that doesnt belong to them..

[Rabrrrrrr]

12. No, God told the Hebrew people, of that time and place,

to kill -- often "destroy utterly" - the people in the land that God was giving to the Hebrew people. And many times, they failed to do so.

But the Bible does not say to go ahead and commit genocide. Nowhere does it say that. The command was given only to a few people, in a few specific instances, 3000+ years ago.

[blitzen]

14. right....i wasn't making the point you thought i was making....

i was trying to make another point--but i can't really be too explicit about it since there has been a lot of hypersensitivity here lately. Let's just say that it involves a parallel between a "specific instance" from 3000+ years ago and a "specific instance" from today.

[kestrel91316]

13. Yep, go slay them Amalekites and other icky furriners...........

Ya gotta LOVE God sometimes.

[Selatius]

15. Anybody read the Jefferson Bible by Thomas Jefferson?

http://www.angelfire.com/co/JeffersonBible/

[Nevernose]

16. And the Quran says:

* 2:6-7 "As for the Disbelievers, Whether thou warn them or thou warn them not it is all one for them; they believe not. Allah hath sealed their hearing and their hearts, and on their eyes there is a covering. Theirs will be an awful doom."

* 2:286, 3:147 "Give us victory over the disbelieving folk."

* 3:28 "Let not the believers take disbelievers for their friends in preference to believers."

* 3:32 "Allah loveth not the disbelievers."

* 3:56 "As for those who disbelieve I shall chastise them with a heavy chastisement in the world and the Hereafter; and they will have no helpers."

* 3:85 "Whoso seeketh as religion other than the Surrender (to Allah) it will not be accepted from him, and he will be a loser in the Hereafter."

* 4: 91 "Take them and kill them wherever ye find them. Against such We have given you clear warrant."

* 4:101 "The disbelievers are an open enemy to you."

* 4:144 "Choose not disbelievers for (your) friends in place of believers. Would ye give Allah a clear warrant against you?"

* 5:51 "Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. ... He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them."

* 8:39 "Fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is all for Allah."

* 9:5 "Slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush."

* 9:29 "Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah."

* 9: 73 "Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites! Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's end."

* 9: 113 "It is not for the Prophet, and those who believe, to pray for the forgiveness of idolaters even though they may be near of kin (to them) after it hath become clear that they are people of hell-fire."

* 9: 123 "Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you."

* 22: 15 "Whoso is wont to think (through envy) that Allah will not give him (Muhammad) victory in the world and the Hereafter (and is enraged at the thought of his victory), let him stretch a rope up to the roof (of his dwelling), and let him hang himself."

* 28: 86 "Never be a helper to the disbelievers."

* 30: 45 "He loveth not the disbelievers."

* 58: 22 "Thou wilt not find folk who believe in Allah and the Last Day loving those who oppose Allah and His messenger, even though they be their fathers or their sons or their brethren."

* 60: 1 "Choose not My enemy and your enemy for allies. Do ye give them friendship when they disbelieve?"

* 60: 13 "Be not friendly with a folk with whom Allah is wroth, (a folk) who have despaired of the Hereafter."

* 66: 9 "Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end."

Of course, if you go to the source, the http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/ "> annotated Septics Bible, Quran, and book of Mormon, you'll find that most of the mainstream religions these days (at least the Judeo-Christian ones) are big into killing each other.

[blitzen]

17. and, in historical context, who are the "disbelievers" mentioned

so many times in these verses? the short answer is the rich and powerful of Mecca against whom Muhammad led a social revolution--at first, with words alone, and later, out of necessity, with words and violence

"disbelievers" is in most cases Quranic code-speech for supporters of the old social order (tribal violence and class privilege)

[Nevernose]

23. Yeah. Right.

Find me a fundie of ANY religion -- Jew, Chrisitian, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Daoist, Shintoist, Animist, Whatever -- and I'll show you someone who doen't give a rat's ass about "historical context." People don't understand "code-speech." They understand just-plain-speech.

To be fair, these days I'm a Unitarian Universalist, and am into reading as much as I can about whatever I can, seperating the wheat from the chaff, and finding the truth. God is speaking to us all, every single day. He doesn't want one of us to be right and the other wrong; God(s? higher power?) loves us all the same no matter what, and a man's religion is entirely different than a man's faith.

"Treat each other right" is the central tenet of EVERY religion.

[SammyWinstonJack]

18. I don't do the bible........... and there is a reason for that..........

Honestly...........:wtf:

[lumpy]

19. I did the Bible and concluded

that the New Testament should have been a separate book from the Old Testament. Jesus' viewpoint was a departure from the old beliefs.

[Skittles]

20. lol blitzen, you're not doing it right

you're supposed to pick and follow ONLY THE STUFF YOU LIKE - that's what all Christians do

[Endangered Specie]

21. theres a whole list of them.. btw the Qu'aran has a few zingers too...

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/index.htm

2: The Cow

2:1 Alif. Lam. Mim.
2:2 This is the Scripture whereof there is no doubt, a guidance unto those who ward off (evil).
2:3 Who believe in the Unseen, and establish worship, and spend of that We have bestowed upon them;
2:4 And who believe in that which is revealed unto thee (Muhammad) and that which was revealed before thee, and are certain of the Hereafter.
2:5 These depend on guidance from their Lord. These are the successful.
2: 6 As for the Disbelievers, Whether thou warn them or thou warn them not it is all one for them; they believe not.
Don't bother to warn the disbelievers. Allah has blinded them. Theirs will be an awful doom.
2: 7 Allah hath sealed their hearing and their hearts, and on their eyes there is a covering. Theirs will be an awful doom.
2:8 And of mankind are some who say: We believe in Allah and the Last Day, when they believe not.
2: 9 They think to beguile Allah and those who believe, and they beguile none save themselves; but they perceive not.
2:10 In their hearts is a disease, and Allah increaseth their disease. A painful doom is theirs because they lie.

[Warren DeMontague]

22. Yeah, well, the Tao Te Ching has the best jokes.

So there.