Why is is so hard to evacuate Americans from Lebanon?

[liberal N proud]

Since US is a sub state of Israel, or so it always seams, we should be able to tell Israel to hold their fire for an few hours while we fly some planes in pickup the people that want to leave.
I wouldn't think that Israel would shoot down any of our planes since we are the only pro Israel state in the world at this point.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

1. One would think. n/t

[LiberalVoice]

2. Well for one thing...

Israel bombed Lebanons airport. They are also worried about Hezbollah attacks.

[k_jerome]

3. so ya think the jews control

our government? interesting take.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

7. Well, it's about time.

I've been waiting for years for Pat Buchanan's views to catch on in the Democratic party. He was ahead of his time, I'll tell ya.

[k_jerome]

9. it is absolutely NOT anti-semetic to think such things however. nt.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

10. Whether or not it's anti-semitic is beside the point.

It isn't true. It's never been true, and it has and is being used by anti-semites as a blunt instrument, but the fundamental fact remains that it is nonsense.

[acmavm]

4. Why is it so hard for people to understand that we SHOULDN'T have

to evacuate anyone from Lebanon. What is going on there is a crime against humanity and the bush** administration loves it.

I am not saying that you don't understand anything. But why does anyone think that just because other countries are capable of getting their citizens out of harm's way the US could/would? I see this criminal cabal playing up American casualties as a reason why we should support Israel in their onslaught against the Lebanese people. It seems to me to be an ideal propaganda piece for them. You know, like Saddam and WMDs, or Saddam is a danger, or any other event that they manipulate so that they can use it for a poor justification of their crimes.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

8. The problem with that...

...is that any American casualties are much more likely to be infliced by Israel than Hezbollah.

[acmavm]

12. But it will still be Hebzollah's fault for 'starting' this whole mess.

Poor Israel is just defending itself, as it always is when it attacks civilians.

I understand that Israelis die too when Hebzollah launches a rocket into a civilian area in Israel. But this action is way out of proportion to the original event, which was the kidnapping of one soldier.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

17. You know it's different when Americans die.

It doesn't matter how many people, brown or white-skinned, get killed in the land of Foreign. But when it's an American it's Different, and the people who did it are Always Bad, regardless of the circumstances. A lot of Americans will not be happy with Israel if they manage to kill some Americans.

[k_jerome]

16. actually, current Lebanon is one of ...

this admins proudest achievements.

[bluestateguy]

5. Probably because Karl Rove was looking over the ex-pat election returns

I'm sure they probably saw that ex-pats in Lebanon don't play ball on Team Bush and naturally they are responding accordingly.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

6. Well...

ince US is a sub state of Israel we should be able to tell Israel to hold their fire for an few hours

Well, that's a very interesting hypothesis. If we are a substate of Israel as you suggest, then I suspect that we would simply do whatever they told us to do, and not vice-versa. And given Israel's current penchant for blowing up civilians, including westerners in Lebanon, I doubt they'd care to stop their shelling long enough for us to pull our people out.

while we fly some planes in

I'm sure that someone as familiar with the situation as you would be well aware that our evil overlords, the Jews, have recently caused the Beirut airport to physically resemble a meadow in the grip of a terminal gopher infestation. Or possibly the fairway of the golf course in Caddyshack.

I wouldn't think that Israel would shoot down any of our planes

And what makes you think that the pro-Syrian milita currently running amok in Lebanon and northern Israel wouldn't jump at the chance to attack the airplanes of, as you put it, "the only pro Israel state in the world?"

[liberal N proud]

13. So maybe we need to use choppers or boats

But why would Israel harm anyone from the only nation that lends its support to this outrageous attack? If Syrian militia who you are saying running amok in Lebanon could have already take out Americans if they so desired. But that hasn't happened because they know that would be just the ticket for bu$h and his regime to spark the attack they have been trying to find cause for since 2003.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

22. Well...

I don't think Israel would intentionally kill Americans, but at this point it is inevitable that some will die if they are not evacuated.

If Syrian militia who you are saying running amok in Lebanon could have already take out Americans if they so desired.

You're right. I suspect that Hezbollah would be reticent to push the US into Israel's corner any more than it already has.

[theHandpuppet]

11. Bush is waiting for a few American casualties

So he can blame it on Syria and Iran and expand the PNAC agenda. I'm not a tinfoiler and even I would buy that scenario.

[liberal N proud]

14. Exactly

No one in Lebanon is dumb enough to give them reason (I don't think) and we just tell Israel that we are getting our people out, end of story. But that does not make good head lines

[lindisfarne]

15. There are 30000 or so who need to be evacuated ... n/t

[Behind the Aegis]

18. What a load of shit!

"Since US is a sub state of Israel..." I have seen that written in other places...were could it be? Oh yes, StormFront and Vanguard! Thank you for bringing their opinion to DU! :sarcasm:

[liberal N proud]

20. I bring no ones opinion to DU but my own!

Sub state of Israel is simply a metaphor for the fact that administration after administration supports Israel unequivocally. Democrat or Republican all are afraid to tell Israel that they have crossed the line.

[Behind the Aegis]

21. I didn't say it wasn't your opinion..I said it was a "load of shit."

It is also one I have heard in places other than DU! Despite you thinking we are all stupid, we can see code!

[liberal N proud]

24. I am not trying to be anti semitic or anti Jewish with my remarks

It is simple observation that the US supports any actions taken by Israel. Case in point is bu$h's recent remarks that Israel has to defend herself when 2 solders were kidnapped, while the rest of the world was calling for calmer actions.
I apologize if the remarks appeared to you as an attack on Jews, there is no agenda here, just remarks.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

30. No.

In recent memory, I seem to recall that we were not at all happy about the siege of Arafat's headquarters, and at least two of the incursions into Palestinian territory - one in 2002, the other (I think) in 2003, as well as the building of the security wall.

Those are just off the top of my head. I'm sure there are more. You are dangerously oversimplifying the relationship between US and Israel so that it might fit your preconceived notions about the current situation.

[JVS]

23. Yeah, agreed it's a load of shit, but one would think that given the...

cordial relations between Israel and the US (as well as other Western democracies) that Israel wouldn't be telling them (I think it was France who got told this) stuff along the lines of "You guys have to get your boat out of the port now because we want to bomb the port"

[brmdp3123]

19. Oh, please.

"Since US is a sub state of Israel"

I don't think so.

[RC]

26. So why then does the United States continue to support Israel

no matter what they do? Why does Israel need nuclear war toys? Why does Israel need a navy with subs? What Israel wants, Israel usually gets. Yeah, I do think so also.

For many long years Israel has over reacted to any threat, real or perceived. Shoot first, diplomacy for show to get sympathy if need be, second.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

28. I would like to know one thing.

How long do you think Israel would last, as a state, without its military might? A week? A year? Five? I'm disgusted by the overreaction of the Israeli government in this case, but to suggest that they don't need a powerful military is insane. They are surrounded by neighbors who hate them, and who are almost without exception armed to the fucking teeth.

[brmdp3123]

29. Well..

So why then does the United States continue to support Israel no matter what they do? Why does Israel need nuclear war toys? Why does Israel need a navy with subs? What Israel wants, Israel usually gets. Yeah, I do think so also.
-Because it is surrounded by fanatic, terrorist nations that are bent on its destruction.


For many long years Israel has over reacted to any threat, real or perceived. Shoot first, diplomacy for show to get sympathy if need be, second.
-Zero-it reacts, it doesn't over react.

[RC]

33. Doesn't over react, huh?

Isn't this latest conflict over 3 missing military? How many Innocent people, who do not even support any terrorist have been killed or injured?

Over react? sure.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2396261

[Scurrilous]

25. From Haaretz News Flash:

12:34 Australia: IDF wouldn`t halt Lebanon shelling to allow for evacuation of citizens (DPA)

[Bassic]

27. We've been having a hell of a hard time here in Canada as well.

Harpers government is being heavily criticized because of its lack of speed. Of course the arrogant assholes are saying that whoever criticizes them is simply being irresponsible. (Not sure how that works out in their little minds, but whatever)

[CTyankee]

35. You have a conservative government, right?

I don't know much about Candadian politics, but I wonder if your leader is pro-Bush. If so, acting like the Bush admin. would make sense.

[fasttense]

31. The US is looking for a few good contractors.

When you have subcontracted everything out to private firms you have no control over the contractor's performance unless you fine them. That is betting on the fact that you wrote the most perfect contract in the world, you have covered all possible contingencies, and the contractor is not a crook (Don't expect all other duties as assigned to cover it either. That little statement can be negotiated six ways to Sunday.).

Of course fines and penalties, and the last resort canceling the contract, take days, weeks, months, years. In the meantime things do not get accomplished, the work piles up and people die.

The US is currently scrambling to find a contractor to evacuate our citizens. They are checking their current contracts to see if any of them could cover this evacuation. They are writing new contracts and trying to decide which of their cronies will get this new billion dollar deal. That all takes time. And as seen in Katrina, the bushes are just not into helping US citizens escape catastrophes.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

32. Are you being sarcastic?

I can't tell. This whole situation has broken my sarcasm detector. If you're not, do you have a source?

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

36. Does it bother you at all...

...that you are posting links to a hate site?

[flordehinojos]

40. no. what you call a hate site, i call a truth telling site.

evidently you and i are at opposite ends of one continuum.

does it bother you to smear truth or a truth telling site?

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

42. I'm not the only one...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1654485#1655245

[leftchick]

37. Because bush does not want Israel to stop firing

he wants his ME conflict to escalate into Iran and Syria. It really is as simple as that. He does not give a fuck about US citizens. I thought that was apparent with Katrina.

[bdamomma]

38. that is why he is sitting back and does not give a shit

what happens to innocent civilians or our soldiers in Iraq, the Middle East is one inconvenient place for him and he would be happy just to eliminate/exterminate the whole Middle East, and in the meantime, we are increasing more terrorist groups.


I hate what this regime is doing to the world.

[liberal N proud]

39. That is what I think as well

Ticket to WW III as they are spinning

[oasis]

41. Remember Katrina. The U.S. state department is no better than FEMA.

Same bunch of do-nothing Bush corporate cronies.

[nadinbrzezinski]

43. If as yuo claim Israel and Jews control the governemnt

why can't I get that damn secret gov'ment job?

Free hint Israel does not contol the US... and then you ask why some people call some on DU for their antisemitic remarks, this is out of the Protocols of the Elder of Zion

Now to your valid question, why couldn't the US evac people from Loussianna? Why can't the US do many things that it COULD DO before? This is what happens when people who do NOT beleive in government are placed in charge of it.

[Moderator]

44. locking....

Saying that the US is a substate of Israel
is considered anti-semitic and a rule violation.