Lets just nuke the Middle East

[DFLer4edu]

Just kidding. With the latest wave of violence in the Middle East I have been saddened, but not surprised by the incredibly partisan reactions here at the DU. Those who support Israel blame Hamas and Hezbollah for starting this latest wave of violence. Those who support the Arabs see this as just the latest wave of Israeli aggression, which did not begin with the kidnapping of a solider, but which has been ongoing. Each of these points of view fails to recognize that this is a cycle of violence in which neither side is justified, but in which it is easy to understand the plights of both people. As one DUer pointed out, the game of who started it is at this point a child's game.
For those who see Israel as the aggressor, keep in mind that with an exception of Egypt and Jordan, no other Arab nation has signed a peace treaty with Israel recognizing Israel's right to exist. When Iran's president (Iran is not an Arab country in terms of language, but they definitely come down on the Arab side of the conflict and are culturally linked to the Arab world) said Israel should be wiped from the map, we may have thought in the US that it was just rhetoric, but Israel takes it seriously for obvious reasons. Since the creation of Israel, Arabs have been talking of driving them to the sea, many have tried. Hamas and Hezbollah are terrorist organizations. I find it hard to believe that if the US had such neighbors we would negotiate with them instead of building a wall around our country.
For those who see Israel as the victim of Arab terrorism and Arab aggression, the body count doesn't bear that out. Far more Palestinian civilians are killed than Israeli civilians. Israel provokes the Palestinians, and although the IDF does not systematically target civilians, they do show a blatant disregard for civilian life. The IDF does target civilian infrastructure which has little or nothing to do with terrorist organizations, water pumps and bridges being prime examples. If you were a Palestinian you would not see Hamas as a terrorist organization, but as your only means by which your poor third world country could fight against the vastly superior IDF forces and an oppressive Israel.

We have been having a debate about the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, but we need to have a much broader debate. We need to ask ourselves whether we are doves or hawks. I think that if we had such a debate, we at the DU could virtually all agree that Middle East peace cannot be obtained through war as hawks on all sides would have their people believe. The Israelis and Palestinians can live together in peace or die together in war. If DUers who support Israel cannot see the suffering of the Palestinians, how can we hope for peace? If DUers who support Palestine cannot see the plight of Israelis, how can we hope for peace? This is a cycle of violence, and until both sides own up to their part in that cycle, there can be no peace. The blame game only perpetuates this cycle of violence. The blame game is the game of childish warmongers on both sides. The blame game is the game of hawks. And so I ask you, are you a dove or a hawk?

[mmonk]

1. I was about to ask if you were Rummy.

Anyway, the mechanisms for peace have been damaged by the US in relationship to the UN, the Iraq invasion, and our continued threats. We aren't viewed as someone who can diffuse anything. Therefore, any of us that are doves have to look elsewhere for leadership to bring peace. Here at DU, you have probably both doves and hawks concerning the ME.

[DFLer4edu]

3. Nope, I have just come to realize how the DU works

I posted this thread under the title support Middle East peace and got two responses in 3 hours. If you want people to look at a thread you need a catchy title around here. I figured that would do it. As for Bush's action, yes, they have hurt the chances for peace, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try. If if takes looking for leadership elsewhere fine by me.

[whistle]

11. There is such a thing as bait and switch you know...

...besides this whole fiasco is all about the neo-cons getting everything in a frenzy and using some nuclear weapons on Iran through their puppets in Israel to show that world, "If you don't do what we (neo-cons) tell you to do, then you will get the same thing as Iran got". I suspect that we'll be hearing about nuclear weapons being launched into Iran before all of this ends.

[IthinkThereforeIAM]

12. Wrong...

... we are looking because you used sensationalism in your header, that and to see who the loony is that needs to be put on permanent ignore here. Don't congratulate yourself prematurely.

[Malikshah]

2. To start-- we need to go beyond the myths.

"For those who see Israel as the aggressor, keep in mind that with an exception of Egypt and Jordan, no other Arab nation has signed a peace treaty with Israel recognizing Israel's right to exist. When Iran's president (Iran is not an Arab country in terms of language, but they definitely come down on the Arab side of the conflict and are culturally linked to the Arab world) said Israel should be wiped from the map, we may have thought in the US that it was just rhetoric, but Israel takes it seriously for obvious reasons. Since the creation of Israel, Arabs have been talking of driving them to the sea, many have tried."

Might I suggest you read Avi Shlaim's Iron Wall. It will open your eyes to the mandatory and beyond Israeli policy of dealing with the Arab world (btw-- be careful in blending cultures etc. re: Iran etc.)
and may even make you revisit the above statement.

[hobbit709]

4. "A plague on both their houses"

You have two extremist groups-each hate the other with a passion. Neither side will acknowledge the other, neither side will give in on anything. Both sides' hands are bloody but each accuses the other side of being bloodier. Until they come to their senses nothing will change. The extremist factions on both sides of the conflict squelch any attempts at sanity within their ranks. The only way I see it stopping is if the rest of the world finally says "Enough" and spanks both sides. I hope this will happen but given the history of the region I wouldn't bet on it- especially with the dysfuntional nutjobs in charge in this country.

[Clark2008]

5. I'm a Blue Jay

Squawk, squawk, squawk...

[SlipperySlope]

6. Nuking the middle east might interfere with oil production

I know you were just kidding, but I can't help think about that.

Maybe "Lets just chemical gas the Middle East" would have been a better subject?

I dunno, the whole thing is sad and seems unsolvable short of one side just exterminating the other.

[BeFree]

8. But...

... the warmongers have all said just that: "turn 'em into glass"

Geez, don't they know Israel would be bottled up then?

The next time one of them warpublicans get all warried about their warry wart wars and wanna nuke the ME, just remind them of the death sentence they
would be signing for Israel.

[serryjw]

7. Sorry, I didn't read your post because

I didn't recognize you screen name and I thought you were a KOOK!

Israelis and Palestinians can live together in peace or die together in war. End of debate!

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[serryjw]

10. Just added a new thread you might be interested in

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1649310&mesg_id=1649420