Two kinds of Rapture motives

[undergroundpanther]

The Fundies are in glee over this war apparently.They are selfish people.They cannot wait for Israel to get bombarded and 3/4 of all jews killed. It's all Gawds plan. They don't want to consider how evil such a plan is because to a fundie the obedience authority has more importance than being good people. For a fundie getting rewards matters,getting the biggest crown and being THE favorite admired by all in the lap of a cosmic daddy is what matters most.They are as emotionally mature as 2 or 3 year old toddlers.

The Glee of rapture is about their own narcissistic desires for rescue from powerlessness. Rescue from the obligations,compromises,differences, and introspection required of life here. They fear righteous judgment from all the world they abused.. A fundie narcissist for his own greed is willing to not only lie to himself but band together with other selfish little people who lie and make a cult of lies to feel power. They are not content only make a cult and abuse power and trust of anyone they can recruit, they want to convert the world too.and since that is proving difficult they want to influence politics and control world policy to the point they can acting out the drama of Revelations themselves. Knowing the script and pretending they are not acting it out on the world stage makes it look so prophetic IF they deny they are doing the set up.If you ignore the men behind the curtain and keep staring at the great powerful OZ it looks different.See god is powerful who else can make a big head just float in mid air talk with authoritative voice of the great oz....

Lies of this magnitude are deliberately crafted by 'authorities' to look like truth to the 'sheep' .It gets acted out unconsciously by the sheep,and deliberately by the "apostles"..To the self deceptive fundamentalist it all is justifiable,looks real and true.
Because they live in a co created fantasy they desire to impose upon reality by manipulating people and events to favor their own script..That's the kind of predatory social psychosis and manipulation we are dealing with here.An example of a deliberate "creation of a fake reality" that looks real to believers because of the manipulations done by believers for believers to make events and worldviews fit the biblical script.

The way this con works is through use of selective denial and selective observation, limiting of sources for information and self censorship.. The right hand deliberately ignores what left hand is doing.By deliberately closing one eye half blind to themselves and the actions of thier'leaders'it looks like prophecy fulfilled!
Generations of rapture freaks have waited and schemed for for 2,000 years,to be rescued,They won't give up now.They won't give up because the world for them is a place where they never get what they want when they want it,too many people upset them by being different or uncontrollable.In heaven there is NO ambiguity,they are priests and kings in control of it all, they are forever safe from ego insults and challenges .Safe in a womb where they can be the egotistical tyrant toddlers they really are forever and ever with unlimited power without any shame about or punishment for being a greedy tyrant toddler with a god that will always tolerate and serve his true believer toddlers and never say NO..It is an authoritarians wet dream existence to never grow up.These freaks really believe destroying the world and making non-believers suffer and hurt will save them from growing up and learning to let others be.

The fundies don't care who dies,as long as they get theirs.The narcissistic little fuckers want Apocalypse so they won't have to be accountable to anyone else,God will get them off the hook,and they want vengeance and power and to be a conquering bully child,They don't care if they this world for us because they are DEAD to this world,and they will not face the crimes they did acting out a lie to save themselves,even if their Jesus never comes..He will come because Jesus promised he would!! Waaah! If Jesus doesn't come than Uh Oh..And A fundie can't be held accountable being a toddler can he?
Oh yes he can! And Daddygod won't be able to spook the masses with the devil and bible once wolf gets cried by a believer toddler past a certain point.

Rapture fundies toddlers go pushing societies limits on what is acceptable behavior imposing their inner dramas on others ,making the non believer siblings on Earth want to beat them to a pulp.The fundies provoke because they have the emotional and ethical maturity of toddlers.To them, bad attention is better than being ignored.When the non believers on Earth get frustrated they cry foul and run to daddy holding his leg saying non believer won't let me have,do,say..waaahhh. THEY wants daddy Jesus attention right NOW.Why do you think these fundamentalist churchgoers unconsciously put their hands in the air,just like a 2 year old wanting mom or dad to pick them up? Because emotionally they are toddlers going Waaaahhhhhh!!waahh wahhh!
Wanting to be soothed and placated like babies but they are adults that will not grow up .Whining in prayers that sound like shit lists and buy me get me lists because reality won't let them do what they want to do all the time ,other people won't do as the fundy toddler tyrant demands,the toddlers don't want to share good stuff with those other people..Waaaah!

A fundie narcissistic toddler having a temper tantrum in an adult body is a sad sight. Only a toddler would think it's ok to believe Jesus comes back because of the sacrificed lives of innocents in the temper tantrums of wars of conquest in Jesus's name. It's a toddler who in a fit of pouting,throws his food on the floor and expects the siblings to clean it up and not tell daddygod..Maybe a bigger mess and a bigger noise will make daddy jesus respond to the pouting toddlers temper tantrums for attention FIRST before those other 'nice' people do ,and if they make a big mess the"nice" people the toddler is jealous of can't fix maybe daddy-god might believe these fundies really ARE helpless and "suffering"children and forgive them for never growing up.
That is the underlying meaning of the rapture glee I think.

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But another motive for rapture and Apocalypse exists and it isn't gleeful.This motive is a very understandable attraction for traumatized people who feel they cannot cope with this reality anymore and trust it or feel safe to exist in it. This type of person hates to see the suffering,but knows it goes on regardless,Hates to see wars,but hopes all that death was not for nothing. People who are traumatized sometimes can't heal. They might feel they never had a chance to be innocent,live,love and be happy here because of all the adult toddlers and insane injustice all around them stomped their love of life out.They want a chance to live too and not be crushed for trying.

To a traumatized person Apocalypse is appealing idea for very different reasons than the tyrant toddler fundies. These suffering people want to believe there is another chance for all people denied to live in heaven to be happy,with a god to protect them and care. They wish good things for all the good people and desire an end of the evil stifling their lives. Maybe in heaven they can find out what it feels like to be loved and not get hurt again. These people are looking to have caring,love and lives reciprocated ,validated and acknowledged .Something far too many people fail to do when they see someone in pain..Some people lose their 'love' of the world because existing has beaten them so bad they cannot cope or compete for survival.(I admit I fit in this category of person wanting the end because I am weary of this world,wanting a new chance at life because mine was stolen)

I am aware of my own desire for the cycles of death and pain to stop,for the world to end.I make no claims about how the world ends or who is evil or whom is good. All I know is the human condition sucks bad for me and plenty of others suffer with it too worse than I do. Humanities bully problem looks impossible to solve..So it's all GOT to end somehow and I don't want to think it was all for nothing..And I am not sure humanity can fix all our problems. It seems humanity cannot let go of certain tendencies or get past them.It feels helpless and hopeless, to me because I feel deeply the pain..So bad that outside rescue seems the only way to heal.

So I find myself wishing for an end of reality where evil is forcibly separated from goodness and the evils we cannot cure like narcissism,sociopaths authoritarianism cancer death war,bigotry,control freaks,abuse,hurricanes,addiction,survival of the fittest,inequality the spirit all of that evil that traumatizes good falls away and dies forever..And Life can begin again without evil controlling life.
My kind of Apocalypse is a deep wish to stop the pain of abuse and trauma that is shot through this existence. So I myself do not want a hierarchical reward and punishment system,or crowns for brownnosing gods in this endtime scenario. All good people deserve acceptance,
freedom,rest,peace,safety,happiness,abundance,and love forever finally.

Apocalypse/Rapture is dual edged rescue/destruction scenario.
Appealing to both bullies and the targets of bullies.
For two VERY DIFFERENT motives.

To Fundamentalist narcissist, tyrant toddlers in adult bodies ,Rapture and Apocalypse is a way to never grow up or be held accountable to anyone on Earth they hurt,lie to, exploit or abuse .They think as long as daddy has no law written against it, or they do the magic mind-fuck spell and pout jesus in their hearts to make daddy god's anger unable to see the evil inside them they can get their cake and eat it too.And they are getting tired of waiting for god to rescue them so now this war is their latest attention seeking temper tantrum..

To the traumatized people rapture.Apocalypse is a hope for an end to existential pain and trauma this existence causes in a world such as this to all good people.It is a wish for liberation from the human condition.

Two VERY different motives for the same desire for the end of the World..

http://www.unknownnews.net/050219d-16up.html

[fearthem]

1. I think your thoughts are insightful!

[undergroundpanther]

2. thanks.

I feel awkward in admitting here I want the world to end and soon.
Where my motives differ from the fundies is I want the suffering and evil to end.I want liberation from survival,limits,pain.sickness,deprivation bullies and wars.
And I don't know if the many kinds of evil can be separated out of existence without a spiritual extraction of the good and disabling of the evil of some sort by an outside force..

Humanity has tried forever to teach people ethics and morality and to try to encourage people to cope,with traumas,relate in good ways, and live in balance in the world.And we have failed.We point to teachers like Jesus Buddha and yet they cannot stop the evil of existence,the might makes right and die anyway of evolution.
A tornado can scar a child for life emotionally..so he scars his children in a few generations a cult to appease tornado gods crops up and more kids are sacrificed to keep tornadoes away from a village .Than a whole hierarchy of priests arises to exploit good people's fears and make them serve sociopaths and on it goes.
Every good message by a good spirit gets corrupted by bad people here.
All I know is it hurts,and I want real liberation.I want the suffering to stop.I want beautiful things to have a chance too.

[EVDebs]

3. Dispensationalism/"Futurism" based on Jesuit sleight of hand...

The Catholic Origins of Futurism and Preterism
http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/antichrist.htm

[undergroundpanther]

4. That was a good page.

BTW check this

http://againstarchons.blogspot.com/2006/05/politics-of-christian-domination.html
And ..
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20060220/blumenthal

Narcissistic leadership is about reproduced copies, not about originals. It is about the manipulation of symbols - not about veritable atavism or true conservatism.
In short: narcissistic leadership is about theatre, not about life. To enjoy the spectacle (and be subsumed by it), the leader demands the suspension of judgment, depersonalization, and de-realization. Catharsis is tantamount, in this narcissistic dramaturgy, to self-annulment.
Narcissism is nihilistic not only operationally, or ideologically. Its very language and narratives are nihilistic. Narcissism is conspicuous nihilism - and the cult’s leader serves as a role model, annihilating the Man, only to re-appear as a pre-ordained and irresistible force of nature.
Narcissistic leadership often poses as a rebellion against the “old ways” - against the hegemonic culture, the upper classes, the established religions, the superpowers, the corrupt order. Narcissistic movements are puerile, a reaction to narcissistic injuries inflicted upon David Duke like (and rather psychopathic) toddler nation-state, or group, or upon the leader.
Minorities or “others” - often arbitrarily selected - constitute a perfect, easily identifiable, embodiment of all that is “wrong”. They are accused of being old, they are eerily disembodied, they are cosmopolitan, they are part of the establishment, they are “decadent”, they are hated on religious and socio-economic grounds, or because of their race, sexual orientation, origin … They are different, they are narcissistic (feel and act as morally superior), they are everywhere, they are defenseless, they are credulous, they are adaptable (and thus can be co-opted to collaborate in their own destruction). They are the perfect hate figure. Narcissists thrive on hatred and pathological envy.
http://www.lessig.org/blog/archives/001178.shtml

[elocs]

5. Let's not get too deep and over analytical concerning the Rapture.

I've been there, done that when I was "in" the church--a holy roller, tongue talking, praise the Lord, Brother and Sister, Pentecostal church. I studied the Rapture and its origins in the early 1800s as well as its variations: preTrib Rapture, midTrib Rapture, postTrib Rapture, along with premillennialism and postmillennialism. I studied as much as possible going back to the original languages to see how the words were used and what they meant. The vast majority of Christians who believe in the Rapture have not done this and most have not read all of their own Bible. But like many, most Christians tend to be good little sheeple, doing and believing exactly as they are told by their leaders. Since their leaders would never lie or mislead them, they unquestioningly drink the koolaide.

Most Christians who believe in the doctrine of the Rapture do so out of fear--they do not want to be "left behind". It's as simple as that. Add to that they do not want to suffer anything in any way and also that those who are "left behind" are getting what they deserve. I have a friend that I knew as a 10 year old in the Pentecostal church we attended and he lived in fear that he would miss the Rapture.
One time he went to a movie (a BIG no-no in that "holiness" church) and when he got home nobody was there. He was in an absolute panic. Today he is a comic and uses his church experiences in his act.

So from my experience, fear is at the heart of belief in the Rapture. If only these Christians would study their history they would find numerous times throughout the Christian era there have been occasions when believers have been in a frenzy in anticipation of the coming of the Lord. The Rapture is a weak doctrine that you can arrive at only by torturing and forcing together scriptures. But as I said, few Christians will honestly study it out on their own to determine if it is true of false.

[undergroundpanther]

6. I know

bout the fear..I'm an ex Aog.

[elocs]

7. AOG?

I am an ex UPC (United Pentecostal Church). Women had to have long hair and never cut it as well as wear dresses. No tv, movies, or other worldly entertainment either. They definitely looked down on the "loose" standards of the AOG.

[EVDebs]

8. Futurism originated in the 1500s... see post #3

regarding the counter reformation, Luther, and the church at that time; also the unspoken 'war' between the Knights of Malta (Hospitallers) and the Freemasons (formerly known as Knights Templar).

[elocs]

9. Most Christians who believe in it know about the "Rapture"--

that term specifically. They may have sat through teachings about the other hoop-de-do, but what they basically understand and believe is that there will be a "Rapture" where Jesus will return and catch up the living believers into the air to be with him and to miss the Great Tribulation (most believe in a pretrib Rapture). That is as far and as much as they will be able to explain about it. The term "Rapture" is not in the Bible and it arose in the early 1800s.

[treestar]

10. They are like the guy who kills his family then himself

but just not willing to actually carry it out themselves. They are suicidal but want everyone else to die, too.