Israel to Condi: 'Back off.'

[americanstranger]

From the excellent Steve Clemons over at The Washington Note:

Although I do not have independent confirmation, I heard the rumor from a well-placed source that Secretary of State Rice attempted to increase pressure on Israel to stand down and to demonstrate "restraint". The rumor is that she was told flatly by the Prime Minister's office to "back off".

http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/001533.php

That's it, kids. The days of the US having any sort of foreign policy gravitasse are done, over, gone. Bush and his gang have destroyed it, and as long as their side has the reins of this government, it'll never be back.

If our staunchest ally won't listen to us, what do you think our enemies are going to do?

- as

[uppityperson]

1. Condi is NOT a diplomat, and the USA has lost a whole lot of stature.

nowhere is it written that the USA empire must stand forever.

[rodeodance]

4. Condi has ignored Israel for some time now.

[Jacobin]

2. Israel knows it has Smirky and Congresscritters

on a short leash.

[whistle]

3. Israel may very well be using the nuclear blackmail card...

...isn't it strange that they will now use the nuclear weapons that the U.S. secretly gave to them

[Orrex]

11. I agree with your sentiment, but I have a question

It was my impression that Israel got its nukes from France. Or so I was told by a fellow from Scotland who has no particular love of the US (and therefore seemed--to me--unlikely to lie in defense of our fine nation). Please correct me if I'm wrong, which I may very well be.

Not that it makes a whole lot of difference--a pre-emptive nuke would be horrific no matter who supplied it.

[Selatius]

16. They supposedly built their own nukes, but France...

sold them one of their nuclear reactors back in the late 1950s or early 1960s. I believe it's called the Dimona reactor. Because Israel never signed the Non-Proliferation Treaty, the IAEA has no grounds to go in and inspect to see if the Israelis are refining uranium into weapons grade uranium for use in atomic weapons.

[Orrex]

43. Thanks for the clarification--I couldn't get my facts straight

Nice to see that they're not bound by the Treaty. I'd hate to see a little thing like the IAEA get in the way of nuclear decimation.

:sarcasm:

[Warren DeMontague]

15. Oh, baloney. Smirky's best friends are Saudi-

not Israeli.

[Jacobin]

42. Hmm

All those fundies that are Bush's base are in love with Jerusalem and the End Times.

They put enormous pressure on congress to give Israel what it wants. To deny that fact is simply ignoring reality.

The fact that Bush loves the Saudis has more to do with oil and investments.

[Name removed]

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[saltpoint]

6. Maybe Star Jones should place a call. Or Burt Reynolds. Likely either

would have more persuasive talents than Condoleeza Rice.

I'd at least talk to Star or Burt. I'd hang up on Condiliar.

[hatrack]

28. I think Joe Isuzu, Dennis Rodman or Bob Newhart might have a better chance

Rice - blecch.

[saltpoint]

41. Bob Newhart would be perfect. I'd go with Bob, definitely.

[kentuck]

7. Then why did we veto the resolution?

Why didn't we use our veto as leverage?

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

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[liam_laddie]

13. Agreed...

and every time I mention this FACT, someone will play the anti-Semite card...
I'm effing sick and tired of that reaction. You write it like it IS..thanks.

[cali]

17. It may not be anti-semitic

but it's utterly loony. Does Israel have influence? Yes. Does AIPAC have influence? Yes. Do either control the US gov't? No. Step away from your large supply of tin foil headgear.

[sir_captain]

23. I'm really pretty speechless

I would have liked to think that DU would be free from this kind of stuff.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

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[Behind the Aegis]

35. Just to be clear...

...you are saying you consider all Jews as "dual citizens?"

[New Government]

36. Absolutely NOT

Jewish Americans that have dual citizenship are far more likely to be Zionists and push the neo-con/PNAC agenda. I'm sorry, I didn't intend to suggest all Jews in America held dual-citizenship.

[Behind the Aegis]

37. Strange generalization.

Every Jew I know is a pro-Zionist, and I only know two who are dual citizens (one to Israel and one to England), the israeli one is pro-Zionist. So I think your generalization is way off.

[Name removed]

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[merbex]

9. The country that attacked the USS Liberty is not our staunchest ally n/t

[americanstranger]

14. I'm only using that terminology

because it's been used by the administration many, many times in the past.

In my opinion, Israel does what any nation would do - watch out for its own interests first.

But they do need to learn the term 'proportionate response,' if you ask me.

- as

[Freedom_from_Chains]

10. Oh BS, Israel is doing exactly what we want them to do. n/t

[Lilith Velkor]

44. Yyyup. n/t

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

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[bdamomma]

18. wow what a quote

Sharon couldn't be any clearer than that

[cali]

20. wow is right

do you believe everything you read. Please see my post #19.

[cali]

19. Widely debunked and widely distributed

by openly anti-semitic hate sites.

"Take for example, the following quote (found on anti-Israel Web sites) alleged to have been said by Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon to the Israeli parliament in October 2001 and reported on Kol Yisrael radio:

Don't worry about American pressure on Israel, we, the Jewish people control America, and the Americans know it.

The statement also appears as "I control America."

As it turns out, it is a hoax. Sharon never made either statement. Nor did Kol Yisrael ever report that he did"


http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_print=1&x_article=766&x_context=2

[Ilsa]

21. Yeah, I found the same debunking. I don't even know what to

think any more, except it seems like a pretty unstatesman-like comment to make, even for an old soldier like Sharon. I have a hard time accepting that he said it. Maybe he thought it? Maybe he did say it. Or maybe he meant it or implied it. Point is, is there truth in it?

http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=7&x_issue=21&x_article=373

[fujiyama]

22. It would be incredible stupid

for any Israeli politcian to make such an arrogant statement. That too, with all the paranoia over "Jews controlling the US government and media", those kind of statements give credence to anti semites.

AIPAC and Israel certainly does have a lot of influence over our government, but I would argue that there are others that have arguably as much, such as Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and various other Persian-Gulf countries.

Israel, like most other nations looks out for itself first. The US, ultimately looks out only for its corporate interests.

[Ilsa]

30. Exacty! And on Mike Malloy's show a minute ago, they were

discussing the level of loyalty Bush might have to Israel. But Mike made an interesting point: he doubted Bush's loyalty for religious reasons, like for the rapture-ready crowd. Instead he opined that if he had to choose, Bush woud go with the Saudis or Kuwait or anyone else that controlled the majority of the world's oil supply.

[progressivebydesign]

39. That's the problem. Is Bush more greedy than religious??

The christianistos are going to find out... that Bush is full of shit with his religious posturing, because he's gonna choose keeping all of us alive, while enriching his family fortune, over hastening the bullshit end times silliness. Now.. unfortunately, Bush is greedy and dumb.. with a touch of asshole mixed in. That doesn't bode well for us, and may get the kooks the armageddon they were hoping for.

Or.. perhaps those that have been walking around in a religion induced trance since 9/11 will snap the fuck out of it when they realize they don't really WANT to lose everything...

[sir_captain]

24. It makes me incredibly sick to my stomach

that anyone would believe this sort of thing. It really, really scares me.

[cali]

25. Nah,

the level of ignorance on DU and gullibility- believing what fits in with your world view- is common here, as it is on any political board.

[sir_captain]

26. I wasn't even just talking about DU

just in general. It's scary. Gullibility is a pretty bad excuse for taking something like that at face value.

[Bluerthanblue]

29. It makes me sick when terrorism is not only ignored by

America, it is reinforced- Targeting civillian infastructure IS terrorism-
Plain and simple- regardless of the provocation, regardless of the paranoia, either real or imagined, what Israel does when it uses weapons provided by Amerika to destroy and terrorize civillian populations, is flat out WRONG- And deserves to be condemned, just as America condems suicide bombers-

It can't be one rule 'for them' and another 'for us'

And Mr Sharons past history makes this quote rather believeablile- He is not 'benign- or innocent'- while his views may have mellowed before his tragic stroke, he was not without reason to have regrets-

I'm expecting this will elicit 'anti-semite' backlash- and I am in NO WAY against anyone based on the reality that they are members of the Jewish faith. I respect their right to hold their faith, and to peacefully pursue life anywhere in this world- I AM admittedly anti-Zionist- as I am Anti-fundementalist______________ fill in your favorite religion- Discrimination against those living in Israel based SOLELY on their 'religion' or ethnic background, =(non-people) is not something I can condone or support-

Ignorance, gullibility, and PREDJUCE are equal opportunity destroyers- And when people stretch the truth, and lie with little remorse, it makes believing in the 'truth' they speak much more difficult.

[sir_captain]

31. I beg to disagree

I am no fan of Ariel Sharon, believe me. But saying that the Jewish people control the United States is not believable at all.

I think you ought to question your assumption that everyone who supports Israel's right to exist (this is what Zionists believe, after all) is a religious fundamentalist. I wholeheartedly agree with you that Israel's treatmant of Arab-Israelis as second-class citizens is pretty horrible, and I am very uncomfortable with the notion that Israel has an official religion.

I wasn't even particularly discussing the facts on the ground--I was commenting on the idea that anyone would believe that the Israeli prime minister would openly use Joseph Goebbel's talking points, and I stand by my comments.

[Bluerthanblue]

32. nothing any world leader

says is beyond belief to me- Call me jaded- call me realistic- I can imagine Sharon saying this- Just as I know how many outrageous statements have been made by * (nearly every word he says) would seem unbelieveable to many 'thinking people'-

Targeting civillian infastructure is WRONG- It is WRONG when anyone does it- friend, foe- or the US of A... it's an absolute- Just as we cannot impose different standards for 'us'- as in, we claim immunity from procecution of 'war crimes'- that doesn't wash-

Israel DOES have undue influence in this government- and uses it at times to do very bad things. Does the nation have a 'right to exist'? ABSOLUTELY- but not at the expense and destruction of anyone and everyone else-

Pre-emptive strikes, are acts of agression and war. I cannot and do not support that- Many of Goebbel's 'talking points' have been floating around coming from lips that should never speak them lately- A good many of them from this administration-
Israel is no less vunerable to being corrupted than the US is-

[cali]

33. No, I wouldn't dream of ascribing

anti-semitism to your remarks. Ignorance, yes.

Let me be clear, I do not support Israel's incursions into either Gaza or Lebanon, but all targeting of civilian infrastructure under any circumstances is not always terrorism. And precisely what is and is not civilian infrastructure? You seem to forget that H'zbollah, part of the Lebanese gov't shot off dozens of rockets into Israeli towns, killing two and injuring over twenty. They initiated this rocket fire before Israel went into Lebanon. They also killed 8 soldiers and abducted two.

Your refusal to accept that the quote is fabricated, is passing strange. You really ought to check out the sites where it's prominently featured. They are simply hate sites. Raw and ugly.

Finally, if you are anti-Zionist, I take it you believe that Israel should not exist, after all that's what Zionism represents. That's a pretty extreme stance.

Oh yeah, and Arab minorities in Israel- not the occupied territories- are full citizens. Yes, discrimination exists, just as it does here in the good ol' USA.

[jerry611]

27. No, Isreal thinks the US has gotten soft on terrorism

I know this because I met someone from Israel last year. And he said that the US has lost a lot of popularity in Israel because they think we have fallen back asleep after 9/11. And we no longer understand the danger of terrorism.

He said he feels more unsafe in America than Tel Aviv because there is absolutely no security in America. He said we don't care about airport security or our borders. He told me that Customs never even checked his passport to see if his visa is current.

[progressivebydesign]

38. Shit. Do ya think Madeline still has keys to the old office??

Maybe she, Bill, and Al, could pop over there tonight.. and fix things for us. before the assholes blow up the goddamn planet. And how long do you think old North Korea is going to sit by, ignored, after all of their bluster?

[mnhtnbb]

45. Condi's response should have been, "Okay, we're pulling your aid"

[spanone]

46. Contrary to Time Magazine, Cowboy diplomacy is not dead.

It's the only thing these bullies know.