Error in Gore's speech?

[teach1st]

The founders of our country faced dire threats. If they failed in their endeavors, they would have been hung as traitors. The very existence of our country was at risk.

Yet, in the teeth of those dangers, they insisted on establishing the Bill of Rights.

Just noticed this mistake (I think). The Bill of Rights was passed by Congress in 1789, with the first proposal I can find being in 1787. The Revolutionary War was fought and won by 1783, no? Wouldn't our founders have been out of danger by the time the Bill of Rights was established?

I think Gore's speech was fantastic and his point in this instance was made even if this is a historical error. My question is academic: Is this an error?

[rfranklin]

1. That part was written by George Bush...

Gore included that error to make his speech more inclusive.

[ananda]

2. Good question.

Does Gore have an email address where you can ask him about this?

Sue

[Vinnie From Indy]

3. Not really!

Gore does not indicate these events were sequential rather that the same men experienced them and decided that they wanted to be free regardless of the threat to their personal safety.

[elfin]

4. I wondered about the same thing

However, our national existence was still fragile at that point.

[rzemanfl]

5. I also questioned the "two World Wars simultaneously" remark.

Nonetheless, it was a great speech and far better than anything the buffoon-in-chief would ever be capable of.

[Eric J in MN]

8. Yeah, I noticed that, too. It should have been World War II on 2 fronts

instead of 2 World Wars.

[Jackpine Radical]

17. I took that "two world wars simultaneously" line to refer

to the war in the Pacific & the war in Europe. Either of them might qualify as a world war all by itself.

[rzemanfl]

26. I took it to mean that God only speaks to our fearless leader, His

ordained President for life, George W. Bush. :sarcasm:

[TomInTib]

19. I also lay some of this to no notes and I saw no 'prompters.

[bahrbearian]

25. The Pacific theater and the Axis theater,

[Eric J in MN]

28. We usually refer to those at the two fronts of World War II. (nt)

nt

[bahrbearian]

30. Who's we ?? Were you alive then,,,,, peace ?

[Eric J in MN]

32. No, but I've never heard the 1940s US military actions described as

two World Wars before.

[Eric J in MN]

6. The sentence isn't a mistake per se, but as you point out,

it conflates the danger during the Revolutionary War with the threats after that war.

[rzemanfl]

10. Which is not near as bad as conflating Iraq and 9/11. n/t

[ThomWV]

7. Listen More Closley

What he said was that several of the states would not ratify the Constitution until the bill of rights was added.

By the way, Madison wrote them and then they circulated in various forms but the NC version is generally consider the granddaddy of them all.

[SPKrazy]

13. At least no one can say Gore said he wrote them!

I know that Gore never actually said he "invented the internet",

but he never forcefully attacked his critics on this and instead he became the butt of the joke all over the place.

[NYC Liberal]

9. I think what he means is is that

they insisted on establishing them HAVING EXPERIENCED the dangers that they did. Awkward phrasing maybe, but that's the point.

[Eric J in MN]

12. Bingo. He probably meant to say right after facing those dangers

instead of "in the teeth" of those dangers.

[hootinholler]

47. I think in the teeth is valid...

During the period between Yorktown and the end of the war of 1812, The U.S. faced many dangers from abroad, and have France to thank for keeping England busy.

-Hoot

[Lusted4]

15. That is one creepy picture. n/t

[ragin_acadian]

29. isn't it?

they want to eat your BRAINS!

j/k. they do look like brain eating zombies, though.

[TomInTib]

11. I believe it was a forced error.

I heard it live and knew it wasn't factually correct.
He was trying to connect Freedom and our unique (albeit gutted) Bill of Rights.
Since this was not a single-issue address I would have done the same thing in the interest of flow and momentum.

Why do you hate Al Gore?

[teach1st]

16. RE: Why do you hate Al Gore?

His dang anger?? ;)

[Viva_La_Revolution]

27. his righteous indignation?

;)

[rzemanfl]

18. We hate freedom. Haven't you been listening? n/t

[TomInTib]

23. Yeah, I just need a reminder now and then. That speech was one

of the most uplifting anythings that I have experienced lately.

[bahrbearian]

14. You Nailed it , thats why no-one showed up for the Revolution...

"they would have been hung as traitors" ... duhhhh.

[PinkTiger]

20. You are correct in your dates.

Perhaps he was explaining that despite the perils they faced as they founded a new nation, and the uncertainty they must have been feeling as they put together the Constitution, that they still kept the desire for human rights in the forefront of their endeavors.

"During the debates on the adoption of the Constitution, its opponents repeatedly charged that the Constitution as drafted would open the way to tyranny by the central government. Fresh in their minds was the memory of the British violation of civil rights before and during the Revolution. They demanded a "bill of rights" that would spell out the immunities of individual citizens. Several state conventions in their formal ratification of the Constitution asked for such amendments; others ratified the Constitution with the understanding that the amendments would be offered.

On September 25, 1789, the First Congress of the United States therefore proposed to the state legislatures 12 amendments to the Constitution that met arguments most frequently advanced against it. The first two proposed amendments, which concerned the number of constituents for each Representative and the compensation of Congressmen, were not ratified. Articles 3 to 12, however, ratified by three-fourths of the state legislatures, constitute the first 10 amendments of the Constitution, known as the Bill of Rights."

http://www.archives.gov/national-archives-experience/charters/bill_of_rights.html

[MrSlayer]

21. Shouldn't it be "hanged" as traitors?

Damn grammatical errors.

[Eric J in MN]

24. Merriam Webster says both are acceptable, though "hanged"

is preferred.

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/hung

[rzemanfl]

33. The G.W. Bush Guide to Public Speaking says that every noun

must be followed by a pause....then ummm....and then duh or ah. Gore is no public speaker like the Pretzeldent is. Gore also prounounced Abu Gharib flawlessly on one try, which was disrespectfull to our leader-who can't fucking pronounce it all.

[Eric J in MN]

34. LOL

nt

[Eric J in MN]

22. Maybe the "in the teeth" part refers more to

"The very existence of our country was at risk" which it still was than the "would have been hung as traitors" part which was unlikely after the Revolutionary War.

He should have said "that danger" to refer to the stil present danger that the US was fragile at the time the Bill of Rights was ratified.

"The founders of our country faced dire threats. If they failed in their endeavors, they would have been hung as traitors. The very existence of our country was at risk.

Yet, in the teeth of , they insisted on establishing the Bill of Rights."

Above, replaced "those dangers" with "that danger."

[dogman]

31. The Revolutionary War was not the end. Britain was still engaged.

This extended through the War of 1812 to the best of my recollection. They did capture the White House.

[Eric J in MN]

35. That's true.

One could argue that if the British could burn the White House in the War of 1812, then there was some risk of the revolutionaries being hanged in the late 1780s.

[dogman]

42. If the Colonies had not formed a Union the British might have won.

The same Tories that would sell us out now existed then.

[Toots]

50. Now we know why Republicans hate the Unions

:shrug:

[Laelth]

36. Exactly.

They burned it. The fledgling republic was in no way safe from Britain after Cornwallis surrendered at Yorktown. The UK was simply too busy dealing with Napoleon to mess with the colonies at that time. They came back once things in Europe settled down a little.

-Laelth

[Kansas Wyatt]

37. In 1814 we took a little trip across the Carolinas down the mighty

Mississipp. We took a little bacon and we took a little beans, and we found the bloody British in a town in New Orleans.

We fired our guns and the British keppa comin', we fired once more and they began to run.

[RaleighNCDUer]

38. Wasn't the bill of rights based largely on the Virginia Commonwealth

bill of rights, that had been co-written by Jefferson and madison(IIRC) years before, during the revolution?

[MissWaverly]

39. I think he meant the Declaration of Independence

I remember seeing 1776, when Franklin said if they didn't hang together, they would
hang seperately (i.e. as traitors), but I think the traitor issue was tied to
the Declaration because breaking away from England made them traitors

[kath]

44. I was thinking this, too. By signing the Declaration, each of those men

were putting their lives at great risk.

[MissWaverly]

49. we can't let America go down the drain

too many have given their lives for our democracy to let it be trashed

[Samantha]

45. I agree

The Bill of Rights was inspired by words drafted by the founders in the Declaration of Independence. If you read the Declaration of Independence, passed July 4, 1776, here are the words I believe were later the inspiration for the literal Bill of Rights:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness--that to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Government, that whenever any Form of government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government ..."

Of course, because of a dispute between the founding fathers over how much power should rest with the uneducated common man versus the power delegated to the states, precise agreement among them allocating the balance of the power could not be articulated at that time. But it is clear the intent, and that intent I believe is what Al Gore was referencing. When he said some would not ratify the Constitution without a specific Bill of Rights, those were the rights people were referencing, and the delay in formalizing these rights came over the dispute between the power of the people weighed against the power of the states.

[MissWaverly]

48. certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty

this is a basic tenet of our country, that someone is innocent until proven guilty,
that a person has a right to trial by jury, Gore is right we need to return to
the rule of law, without it we have nothing

[newswolf56]

40. Not an error at all, but a sadly obscure fact: the threat of British...

reconquest was substantial throughout the era and was constantly expressed in British agitation and armament of Aboriginal tribes along the western frontier of the 13 original states and the others (e.g., Vermont, Tennessee, Kentucky) that soon joined the Union. The ongoing British threat was part of the rationale behind the Alien and Sedition Acts, and countering it was a major motive in the Louisiana Purchase. What delayed any attempt at reconquest until the War of 1812 was Bonaparte's activities in Europe; not until the British were sure the British/Prussian/Austro-Hungarian/Russian alliance had Bonaparte in check were they able to refocus on re-conquering their despised former colonies -- an effort that had already been ended by the Treaty of Ghent but collapsed forever in the unprecedentedly deadly long-range aimed fire of Andrew Jackson's Southern Appalachian riflemen at the storied Battle of New Orleans in its final engagement, Jan. 8, 1815: at the time the worst defeat ever inflicted on the British Army, and one of the worst in its entire history. Less than 10 years later, when the Royal Navy became the mechanism of enforcing the Monroe Doctrine, the United States and Great Britain were on their way toward the rapprochement that led to the alliances of the 20th and 21st centuries.

[Blue_In_AK]

46. I was going to mention the War of 1812

but you beat me to it. Thanks for the history lesson. :)

[jsamuel]

41. Many historians contend the US never really broke away from England until

the end of the War of 1812. That is when the founding fathers were finally in the clear. So, the essence of what he is saying is still true.

[tsuki]

43. English Bill of Rights, 1689. n/t