How Zogby describes the Democratic candidates

[Poiuyt]

I just did another one of their polls. They listed the candidates (with no names mentioned) and asked who I would vote for:

Which of the following Democratic candidates are your more likely to vote for president?

Candidate A is the governor of a swing state in the Southwest. Candidate A was a congressman before he served as Ambassador to the UN and Secretary of Energy. He is considered to be a moderate in the party. If elected, Candidate A would be the first Hispanic President.

Candidate B is a three term Senator from a swing state in the Midwest. Candidate B is considered liberal, but a maverick in the party willing to take unpopular stances and to take positions against his party. Candidate B is best known for cosponsoring and passing a major campaign finance reform law in the Senate.

Candidate C is a two term Senator and former two-term governor of a Republican state in the Midwest. During his term as governor, he cut taxes, created jobs and created a scholarship program for low-income students. In the Senate Candidate C has been a moderate and not considered to be too partisan.

Candidate D was a former four-star general and NATO supreme commander during the Clinton Administration. He was first in his class at West Point, a Rhodes Scholar, is a decorated Vietnam Veteran, and is a national security expert. He is a successful businessman leading the effort to reduce our dependence on oil. Is a moderate on domestic policy issues and is from the South.

Candidate E is a decorated Vietnam War veteran who is generally considered a liberal. He is regarded as articulate on a wide range of issues. He supported the war in Iraq, but is now critical of how the Bush administration is handling the aftermath. He has been a district attorney, a lieutenant governor, and has been a United States senator from a northeastern state for 20 years.

Candidate F is a former one-term senator from a southern state and former vice presidential nominee. Before entering politics he was a medical malpractice attorney. He is considered a populist candidate and since leaving office has focused his time addressing poverty and inequities in America.

Candidate G is the former one term governor of a southern state. While he was governor, Candidate G's state was rated as the best managed in the country and he was ranked as one of the five best governors by Time magazine. Candidate G left office with high approval ratings and bipartisan support.

Candidate H is a six term Senator from a Northeastern state. In the Senate Candidate H has focused on increasing access to college and cracking down on crime, which includes authoring the Violence Against Women Act. Candidate H is also known as one of the Senate's foremost experts on foreign policy. Candidate H briefly ran for president in 1988, but a plagiarism controversy forced him to withdraw.

Candidate I is a senator from a Northeastern state. Since being elected to the Senate, Candidate I has kept a low profile and often reached out across the aisle, despite being a big name and polarizing figure before entering elective office. If elected Candidate I would be the first Female President.

Candidate J was a two-term governor from a swing state in the Midwest. As governor he has cracked down on sex offenders and the production of methamphetamines. Candidate J is also a staunch opponent of the death penalty. As governor he served on national organizations dedicated to alternative fuels, agriculture and biotechnology. He is also the chair of a group of moderate Democrats.

Candidate K is a former two-term Senator from a small state in the West. Before entering the Senate he served in the Army and his state's legislature. In the Senate he was a prominent opponent of the Vietnam War and through the use of the filibuster was able to force the end of the draft. Since leaving the Senate Candidate K has promoted direct democracy though nationwide ballot initiatives and has been an opponent of the war in Iraq.


Note - They also described the Republican candidates in a similar way, but I didn't pay too much attention to those.

[blm]

1. My analysis says that Vilsack paid for this poll, and if

he didn't, then the DLC did.

[Debi]

8. *snark*

:rofl:

[Debi]

9. oops - dupe - delete

but I'm still laughing :rofl:

[emulatorloo]

2. does zogby state who is paying for this one? or do we only find out later

EOM

[jsamuel]

3. who bestows the honor of being named "moderate" and "not too partisan"???

Their paid consultants?

[Idioteque]

4. I like how they refer to Alaska as a "small state in the west" n/t

[hootinholler]

11. That's Alaska?

Well, population wise it is small, but, if we ever split alaska into east and west Alaska, Texas becomes the third largest state.

-Hoot

[pstans]

5. Candidate B all the way!

:woohoo:

[mtnester]

6. Go Russ!

:)

[Debi]

7. When did the DLC become MODERATE?????

Candidate J was a two-term governor from a swing state in the Midwest. As governor he has cracked down on sex offenders and the production of methamphetamines. Candidate J is also a staunch opponent of the death penalty. As governor he served on national organizations dedicated to alternative fuels, agriculture and biotechnology. He is also the chair of a group of moderate Democrats.

Vilsack has been touted as the best republican Governor Iowa has ever had.....:blush: and he's a Democrat.

[sandnsea]

13. Compared to Sessions?

You do have to consider the entire political spectrum. Between Jim McDermott and Jeff Sessions, where would you put Vilsack?

[Debi]

17. Closer to the Right than the Center

He did sign the English Only bill, he has shafted Iowa's teachers and Union members time and time again with unpaid furloughs and false raises (only to ask for their support in his re-election bid). I guess you could say he's moderate when he needs to be and conservative when he can get away with it. :shrug: And I still don't think the DLC (or the Blue Dog Democrats) have the reputation for being moderate.

[sandnsea]

18. The Republican Legislature did that

80% of Iowans supported English Only, so I'd hardly blame that on Vilsack. And the Republican legislature shoved that furlough crap through. I don't know much about Vilsack, whether I'd support him or not. But it's really ridiculous to label people as conservative when there's no Democrat (except Zell) who is as nuts as Sessions or Coburn. They are moderate when placed on the political spectrum between far left and far fight.

[Debi]

19. Vilsack didn't know the word VETO?

He seemed to know it as a lame-duck Governor who decided against property-owner's rights.

[sandnsea]

22. He knew 80% support

Blame Iowans, not Vilsack.

And people really don't understand Kelo and eminent domain. They act as if it's something new and it's not. I doubt there are very many public projects that went forward without somebody being forced off their property. People tsk tsk tsk about run down warehouse areas and crime and say why doesn't the govt do something. Well the only thing the govt can do is create a revitalization program and sometimes that means people will have to move. Then people bitch about that too. The first time a road needed to be widened and Iowa couldn't do it because of an eminent domain law, people would be asking what idiot signed that into law.

[Debi]

24. Kelo had to do with private not public

and people do understand the difference.

How about we stop this, you like Vilsack and agree with some of the things he did and I don't (like him or agree with him).

okay?

[sandnsea]

25. It was public/private both

Kelo was not just about a private development, it was a development project that included new roads, public walkways and bike paths, parks, historic property, etc. You can't just do away with eminent domain, it would require a constitutional amendment. The supreme court did not rule that govt could take private land and just hand it over to a corporation, the way it's been portrayed. They stood by the support of public/private redevelopment project, but most importantly - they simply supported Connecticut state law on eminent domain. State laws may need to be tightened up so the pressure of corporate America doesn't get substituted for the public good, but we do need to remember there really are public goods where eminent domain is useful and that corporations might benefit from that on occasion.

I didn't post because of my view of Vilsack, I really don't have an opinion about him. I posted because you appeared to not know the difference between conservative and moderate. Sure, the English language thing is cruddy, but that's what Iowans want. That's a huge problem on DU. People think because they made a phone call that the politician is supposed to respond to the "will of the people"; but when the will of the people clearly conflicts with DU, well ignore that and call the politician a DLC sell-out. The changes have to come through the local Dem parties across the country, but some DUers scoff at the idea of writing letters and challenging their local media to be fair in reporting. They just want to scream DLC and demand Democrats call Republicans names and think that's going to change the world. It's ridiculous.

[Debi]

26. Thank you for educating me

Especially on the facts of Kelo. Now I know that I have no idea what I am talking about, especially when it comes to the bill that Vilsack vetoed. That bill did nothing to protect communities seizing property for public use, only for private corporations. Just as Kelo was not unique in any way since it dealt with land being seized for private corporations use (not just public land improvement) that being why it was reported on and the challenge being taken all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court. Here I am thinking I had a brain and could differentiate. Now I realize I cannot.

As for my inability to tell the difference between a conservative and a moderate. Maybe I am on the wrong board? I must not know how Vilsack won the primary in 1998 or how much back-tracking he had to do in 2002 just to get the unions to endorse him barely two months before the general election. I must not realize that the DLC is not a Conservative wing of the Democratic Party and that Tom Vilsack is just the leader of the DLC to make them more moderate. I must be educated. I must keep my mouth shut and my opinions to myself because there are members on this board who know so much more than I do.

I am just so ridiculous.

It must truly be an embarrassment to those of you on this board who are better informed to have to tolerate people like me daily.

[sandnsea]

27. Well you say it yourself

In your own words, the bill did nothing to protect communities need to control land for public use (and economic development), thus the veto. You finally admit Kelo was not just about private corporations, but included public land improvement. Maybe you should go back and read the court case and discover it was about whether the STATE laws governing eminent domain were constitutional or not and the Supreme Court said they were and based that opinion on several prior eminent domain cases. Kelo was not really new.

You also finally differentiate the DLC wing of the Democratic Party from moderate and conservative labels in general, which you did not do in your OP. The DLC is moderate on the political spectrum, even though they are more conservative as far as Democrats go. It does not mean the DLC are a group of conservatives, because they're not. They're moderates. It really doesn't matter what THIS board has to say about it, that's still the truth.

Nobody told you to keep your mouth shut or your opinions to yourself, that's getting to be a routine and tired response to any confrontation around here. But when you post something that is just woefully untrue, like the DLC are conservatives, then others are entitled to express their own opinions on the subject. When you try to back that up by cherry-picking and distorting Vilsack's record, it's only logical that someone would come along and challenge that. If doing that makes you look like a ridiculous embarrassment, well, you said that, I didn't.

[Debi]

28. In the realm of Democrats the DLC is conservative

why would anyone care about the level of conservatism of republicans on this board?

I won't be involved in selecting the republican nominee and will not be voting for him either. So be it if you want to open up your choices to both parties, but I consider my self a Democrat so will be working toward that end.

I only care about the selection of the Democratic nominee and in that a person who is the head of the DLC is a Conservative Democrat. (Sure, compared to Trent Lott he may be a moderate, but I'll be comparing him to the likes of Russ Feingold - for that comparison he is a conservative).

Otherwise he would be a republican and he would not need to be discussed.

As for cherry-picking his record, HE did that in order to run for Governor. HE held himself out as a liberal Democrat and asked for the support of the most active people in the Democratic Party. AFTER he became Governor did he race back to the center - did he join the Centrist group and sign republican supported bills and veto Democrat supported bills.

I'm sorry that you do not understand sarcasm. I do wonder, with all your knowledge why you are not a moderator on this board? You seem to want to control so much of the conversations. Why challenge me? Why care about my opinion? If you are tired of people falling back into the same old comments why not let them by and move along? How did it fall upon you to police those of us who disagree with your definitions of select groups among the Democratic Party? Really, I am entitled to my opinion without your rebukes.

Especially since you've admitted that you don't know the person that I'm writing about and I have had a front-row seat to his antics for seven years.

[sandnsea]

29. "best Republican Governor Iowa ever had"

That's what you said. I'm not going to rehash the last bunch of posts or play your dance around what you said because you've been proven wrong game. Outta here.

[Debi]

30. Actually the entire sentence is:

Vilsack has been touted as the best republican Governor Iowa has ever had..... and he's a Democrat.


Sorry if you didn't see the end of the sentence in your rush to judge the rest of my post.

If you knew anything about Tom Vilsack you would know that he ran as a liberal Democrat, received the support of traditionally Democratic groups and when elected ran to the center leaving many left-leaning Democrats feeling betrayed. In 2002 when he ran for re-election he apologized privately to many of the labor groups (and his own State Central Committee members) for some of his actions in order to get their support in the upcoming election, and promised to keep their interests in mind (and really, where were we to send our support - to the republican nominee?). Guess what he has done since then?

So the above quote is correct. Your not understanding it is your problem.

Now, I must go dance some more, it is so entertaining.

[sandnsea]

31. You'll certainly stay fit n/t

[longship]

10. Regardless, I chose Candidate B

Feingold.

Notice that there is no option for Al Gore?

[Counciltucky]

12. Mark me down for Candidate F.

Candidate F has the charisma to win the election and the heart to lead it the right way.

[progressoid]

14. Is this a lame attempt to avoid the prejudice of name recognition?

Unfortunately, people don't vote like this in the real world so what's the point?

[ThomWV]

15. Missed At Least One. How About A 2-Term Vice President

who is articulate on national matters, served in the House I believe it was, and won the popular vote for the Presidency.

[IA_Seth]

16. Candidate D sounds pretty good....

I wonder who that is?

[NJ Democrats]

20. Go Candidate B!!!

It is so easy to tell who is who. Why not just say the names?

[Rambis]

21. Very Cheeky

Everyone knows who each candidate is and I say go Russ. However, my wife mentioned he is a jewish and people might have a problem with that. I am so non religious etc it didn't even dawn on me that people would care but alas we this is the "merica" of * and his asshole religious fundie idiot voters. I am so angry at the voters and * I think it is impacting my mental health as well as my physical well being. I have spend three sleepless nights working out my anti Jim Leach letter to the editor. I can't get this stuff out of my mind it is vital we save the country from these fucking idiots and no one seems to get that. i am off to write it now maybe I will feel better after a good venting on Jimmy and deficit Jim.
:grr:

[Jazzgirl]

23. I did that poll last week and got pretty pissed.

They sent me another one today. If this is it...I ain't doin' it! I don't like that kind of poll....