I’ve found God, says man who cracked the genome

[truthpusher]

This article is from a couple weeks ago....

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-2220484,00.html

I’ve found God, says man who cracked the genome
------------
Steven Swinford
------------
THE scientist who led the team that cracked the human genome is to publish a book explaining why he now believes in the existence of God and is convinced that miracles are real.
Francis Collins, the director of the US National Human Genome Research Institute, claims there is a rational basis for a creator and that scientific discoveries bring man “closer to God”.

His book, The Language of God, to be published in September, will reopen the age-old debate about the relationship between science and faith. “One of the great tragedies of our time is this impression that has been created that science and religion have to be at war,” said Collins, 56.

(snip)

For Collins, unravelling the human genome did not create a conflict in his mind. Instead, it allowed him to “glimpse at the workings of God”.

(snip)

“When you have for the first time in front of you this 3.1 billion-letter instruction book that conveys all kinds of information and all kinds of mystery about humankind, you can’t survey that going through page after page without a sense of awe. I can’t help but look at those pages and have a vague sense that this is giving me a glimpse of God’s mind.”

Collins joins a line of scientists whose research deepened their belief in God. Isaac Newton, whose discovery of the laws of gravity reshaped our understanding of the universe, said: “This most beautiful system could only proceed from the dominion of an intelligent and powerful being.”

More: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-2220484,00.html

[Aviation Pro]

1. You also find God in math....

...the calculus that works here works one million light years away.

[MercutioATC]

19. That explains why I could never understand calculus...

:)

[Aviation Pro]

21. It's not the calculus that gets to people....

...it's the algebra embedded in it.

[MercutioATC]

24. I was never very good at algebra, either.

...anything more complex than long division isn't my strong point.

[SmokingJacket]

2. Well, why not?

What always bugged me is the way creation scientists insist in order for God to exist, science has to be WRONG.

Personally, I'm unconvinced about God, but I do respect my religious friends who accept the validity of science and see God as the Grand Mover...

[SpiralHawk]

6. Hunab K'U - The One Giver of Movement and Measure

A concept arising from the Maya.

Manitou or Gitchee Manitou - That Great Mystery which unites all things at all times and exists beyond all definition. Anishinabe.

[acmavm]

16. See, I've always been certain about God. And all the science

I've ever seen only makes me more certain. My God is no cheesey Amazing Kreskin. He works with logic, intelligence, and miracles (which is the best word I personally have for the Big Bang or the origin of life).

[noonwitch]

18. That's pretty much how Galileo felt, too

He never found science and God to be separate, the more he discovered scientifically about the universe, the more he appreciated God's creative abilities.

That still didn't stop the pope at the time from putting him under house arrest for proposing that the sun is the center of the solar system, not the earth.

[acmavm]

27. Now when you start talking about Popes, my opinion goes in a

completely other direction. And the church. When a religion becomes 'organized' then it is of no use to people because the interests of the church always come first. Not God, not you and me. The church.

[bananas]

3. Will this thread be moved to the Science or the R/T forum? nt

[truthpusher]

4. and this thread?...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1525549

[Ezlivin]

5. It'll be moved to the 9/11 Forum where all threads go to die

If it's the least bit controversial you'll find it there.

BTW, Isaac Newton wrote more about alchemy than he did religion.

[truthpusher]

7. exactly....anything that might bring up the reality that not all...

...Democrats agree on everything...brings up fear and frustration in some...

[SpiralHawk]

8. 9/11 = MIHOP

It just HAD to be said.

THE TRUTH HAD TO BE SAID.

To explore what really happened on 9/11, read this abbreviated version of Paul Thompson's famous and accurate 9/11 timeline: http://www.wanttoknow.info/911timeline2pg

And now, back to your regularly scheduled DU discussion of Science & Spirit.

[Jara sang]

11. God is responsible for 9/11.

[earth mom]

15. No, the BFEE is responsible 911. nt

[MercutioATC]

20. Are you TRYING to ket this kicked to the dungeon??

:shrug:

[truthpusher]

9. Or this one?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1524055&mesg_id=1524055

[bananas]

22. Holy crap.

I usually avoid those threads.

[truthpusher]

10. or this one...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1524628&mesg_id=1524628

[sinkingfeeling]

12. He's correct. It is the fundies who insist that science and faith cannot

co-exist....based on their belief that the Bible cannot be wrong on any matter. (Ask one to explain how Jesus got it wrong that the mustard seed is the smallest).

[jobycom]

13. Cool for him. I'm not convinced

I see these arguments based on the great intricate work of a supposed creator and I see an artificial human system placed over a natural occurence. Then again, I'm not a genome scientist, I don't see what he sees in the same way, I don't really see how he sees it in his mind, so I can't say he's wrong.

Interesting to see how different people arrive at different conclusions, though.

[bowens43]

14. Very misleading......

This gentleman was a fundamentalist Christian long before he headed up the Human Genome project. The implication is that somehow his work led him to believe in a god. That's not true. He beleived in gods first.


Despite his deity delusions, he doesn't attempt to use 'god did it' as a scientific explanation.

[truthpusher]

17. Thanks for the info

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

29. The other misleading comment...

is the suggestion that he's the man who "cracked the human genome."

When he's just another guy in a managerial position on a project that involves thousands of scientists.

[dysfunctional press]

23. how does he explain the mistakes in his god's designs?

working from scratch, you'd think that a supreme being could have done a little bit better of a design job.

[DoYouEverWonder]

25. Maybe they meant it

when they taught us in the Baltimore Catechism that God is Light?

Has a gnostic christian that is what I have come to believe. God is light. Nothing more, nothing less. Without light there would be nothing else.

[Cleita]

26. The trouble with our Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity

and Islam) is that each version believes that they have all the answers and that there is no more room for questioning and adapting to new information.

If we wish to believe in a Creator, a God, a spirit world and divine grace, we need to really be open to questioning everything and being able to change our views when new information comes forward. This is what some Eastern religions do and I think this makes science compatible with spirituality.

Our Western religions, unfortunately, don't. What if some day we meet intelligent species from another planet? That sort of blows the whole Garden of Eden thing, doesn't it.

[rockymountaindem]

31. Speaking for Judaism, that is simply not the case

Judaism, while retaining our spiritual traditions and the text of the Torah for thousands of years, has been dynamic when it comes to belief. For example, the word "Israel" means "to struggle with God". As another example, Maimonides, one of our greatest theologians who lived in the 13th Century (and who was a physician in his day) once wrote that if we find a scientific discovery contradicts our interpretation of scripture, we should reexamine our interpretation of scripture. This is, he wrote, because science is more concrete, and an example of how God's creation is structured, whereas interpretation of scripture is just a product of the human mind and is prone to error as a result.

Mainstream Judaism has never seen science as an enemy. Please don't lump us in with fundies just because we sprout from the same roots.

[Cleita]

32. That's fair enough. I was raised Catholic and we learned

science alongside religion with no contradictions other than the abortion BS. You do have your dogmatic factions too though just like Christians do. Just a question though. What if science discovered there were many gods instead of just one and this was proven scientifically with no if ands or buts? Would Judaism adapt? I don't believe Christianity, nor Islam would, especially Islam because their whole religion seems to be based on the premise that there is only one God and Allah is his name.

In Catholicism we do have the choirs of angels, saints and the Virgin Mary (our adaptation for the barbarian converts who believed in a mother goddess). So I'm sure the Vatican would canonize them as saints or something like that, but would refuse to believe they were gods other than the Trinity. I don't know how Islam would handle this, but how would Judaism?

[rockymountaindem]

34. Well, I think your example is not an applicable one

While Jews believe that God and science are not at odds with one another, they do occupy seperate realms. I don't think it would be scientifically possible to say there are multiple gods, any more than it is scientifically possible now to say that there is one or none at all. Here's something that I think might apply better...

The Bible refers in some places to "the four corners of the Earth". This is reflected in the Jewish liturgy and prayer services, wherein Jews take all four corners of our talits (prayer shawls) in one hand to symbolize God's word spreading all over the world. Now, this practice has been going on since we all believed the world was flat. Now, of course, we know the world is a sphere without corners, but we have retained the practice in a symbolic sense. It is possible to invest this particular event in the service with the same meaning without having to cling to the belief that the world is flat. I hope this gets across what I'm trying to say. Thanks for your interest :)

[Avalux]

28. You can find God in all kinds of things;

and they don't all have to be complex like the human genome. If he can tell me how inorganic matter morphed into organic matter, then I'll think he's on to something.

[Jacobin]

30. Some people like to anthropomorphize the Universe

Who gives a rat's ass?

[Cleita]

33. When I had to take theology classes one of the classes was

all about God, not Jesus Christ but the Father Himself. It turns out He's and Omni. Or He is omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent etc. There are about ten of them. He also has a string of natures. Well I don't remember the whole thing and I'm sure anyone who has attended a seminary can fill you in, but the main impression I left the course with, was a description of the universe. Here we are getting close to science again.

[Deja Q]

35. Oh. My God.

The hubris is astounding.

We are not meant to find God.

What happens when we do? I doubt we'd get a toaster.

[idgiehkt]

36. true that

this article is pure fundie speak and I don't see any evidence this joker wasn't a fundie freak before he started his research. :puke: Stuff like this is so insulting to anyone who has half a freaking brain. It doesn't seem to matter to whomever wrote this just what God the guy found, either... what if it was Allah? Did anyone bother to ask?

It sucks that stuff like this can even see publication in any other format than a pamphlet left on someone's front porch.

[idgiehkt]

38. ROFLMAO, he's lying to promote his book.

He was an atheist until the age of 27, then he converted to jesusism, to this is nothing new. Looks like he's spinning science to promote his beliefs.

Among Collins’s most controversial beliefs is that of “theistic evolution”, which claims natural selection is the tool that God chose to create man. In his version of the theory, he argues that man will not evolve further.

[karlrschneider]

37. Lighten up, Francis...

:eyes:

[kiki]

39. The existence of a tree...

...is proof of ONE THING and one thing only: that trees exist.

It is as much proof of the existence of God, as it is proof of the existence of the purple spotted tree-crapping monster with the face of Bill Paxton that I just thought up.

It pisses me off when religious types say "The proof is all around you!" as if I'm supposed to kneel in reverence at their watertight, "ooh-nobody's-ever-thought-of-that-before" logic.