Support all the troops.

[flamin lib]

In another post in GD a DUer recounted really unloading on a marine recruiter who called the home and asked to speak to the son by name. I’m doing my best here to keep that post anonymous. While I don’t blame the poster for being upset and not wanting the son recruited I think it necessary to weigh in with a devil’s advocate position.

Like it or not the military is a necessary thing. Somebody has to do the job of serving in uniform. They don’t get to choose which wars they fight. They don’t get to choose who sends them to war. They deserve our unconditional support even if we hate the things they are told to do.

So next time a recruiter calls, be nice to him. Don’t yell, don’t slam the phone down. Just be polite and tell him that you do not wish to have him contact your minor child. If your child is not a minor let him/her tell the recruiter. Remember that this person volunteered to go places, do things, see things and smell things that no rational human being would willingly do and they did it because they believe it is necessary to preserve our nation and way of life.

Support the troops, even the recruiters. Chances are they just got back from Iraq or Afghanistan. Disagree with the job they do but try not to be disagreeable.

[niyad]

1. while I can understand what you are saying, if a military recruiter called

MY home, wanting to talk to my minor child, that person would get more than an earful. if the person just got back from the sandbox hellholes, then s/he KNOWS that this is all bs, and therefore, is complict in recruiting for a lie.

[gaspee]

2. Nope

I don't support anyone who joined the military after an illegal war was launched.

A case can be made for those joining up before the invasion of Iraq, but if you joined afterward, it should have been with eyes wide open.

And I don't believe the "uneducated" meme. If you're joining an army that is fighting a war in which you are going to kill and maybe be killed, you damn well better educate yourself. Ignorance is not an excuse.

We have a cult of the military and law enforcement in this country. You see it in movies, TV shows, talking to high schoolers. There are people out there who do think there is glory in killing, even in an illegal war.

I don't support the troops who joined after the start of the Iraq war, and I sure as hell don't support the architechts of war crimes.

I will not be manipulated by cries of "support the troops!" I will not be made to feel wrong for taking a moral stance on war crimes. Invading Iraq was a war crime and all participants, if following international law, can be tried. I was following orders does not cut it.

The real heroes and the people I do support are the enlisted men and women who will go to jail or leave their homes because they will not participate in an illegal war and occupation.

[erpowers]

8. Wrong

I am sorry, but that is just wrong. There are many people who joined the military after this war because they believe in the principals of the United States military. I will not fault people for finding something to believe in and continuing to believe in it. Bush will not always be the Commander-in-Chief. In makes no point for people who believe in the military to abandon their desire to be in the military when a person in charge of the military will only be their temporaly. I proudly stand and say yes I support the troops because I know what it means to support the troops. I do not have to support this President or the war he and Congress started.

You might also want to think about the fact that some of the people who are now resisting the war in Iraq joined after the war was started. It is a possibility that the latest LT. to decide not to go to Iraq joined after the war started. Unless he joined first as an enlisted person and later became an officer he joined after the war had started. It takes about three to four years to become a LT. America has been fighting this war for about three years. I have nothing against the people who decide to resist war. I tend to think there should be better CO rules that allow more people to object; however I think soldiers fighting in the war should be supported.

[Techno Dog]

13. IMO that's crazy

While an insane lunatic is the CinC it is morally reprehensible to actively participate in enabling the war crimes he is committing.

If new people refused to sign up the CinC couldn't continue to prosecute an illegal war.

[erpowers]

50. Draft

No he would just have a reason to reinstate the draft. Do not believe this line that people would revolt if Bush reinstated the draft. Many people who do not have kids going to the war would say it was okay in that we had to fight the war on terror. Those people would then send their kids some place safe and watch as other people were inducted into the military and sent to the war. It is nice to believe that by not joining the military people would be able to prevent wars, but that is just wishful thinking and a bit naive.

[uppityperson]

3. I would politely tell them to never call again and to be ashamed

ashamed of continuing to try to recruit. Politely of course. Everyone can choose which war they fight. Chose to fight or to go to prison. Not a terrific choice, but still a choice. Recruiter has choices also. While I disagree, I will still be polite though when I tell them "shame on you".

[Waya]

4. I understand that they're.....

.....just doing their job, however, when they have been told several times to not contact your child, whether it be by phone or in person (yea, they do show up at your door on occasion), then excuse me if I get a bit testy and irrate. What part of 'no' didn't they understand the first time around? What gives them the right to hound my kid (and me) over and over again?
They asked, they were told 'no' - enough already.

[Solly Mack]

5. I'm a military spouse and I don't agree with you.

It's not "supporting the troops" to tolerate an invasion into your home that you did not grant permission to...and being polite to a recruiter just guarantees they'll call back. It's their job to keep calling and keep calling and keep calling...in an attempt to wear you down. A recruiter that says otherwise is lying.

All too often recruiters gained personal info without the permission of the parent and I don't give a rat's ass how hard it is to be a recruiter...and it is hard....that still doesn't mean a person has to make nice with them.

I don't tolerate the sales pitches and trust me, the recruiters I know are well aware of that.

That doesn't mean I want them dead...that doesn't mean I won't send them a care package once they go from recruiting back to a line unit....but it does mean they can keep their lies to themselves.

And furthermore, I'll call them on the lies they tell and attempt to shame them...for they should be ashamed for lying to impressionable, and often times, desperate, young people..

People die in the military and not just in a time of "war"...the military is far too serious of a business for a recruiter to be lying about it.

I don't blame any parent for being outraged by a call from a recruiter. And I would never tell them how to express that outrage. I would recommend that the recruiter grow a thick skin...no one owes the recruiter their attention.

And as for "unconditional support"...Sorry, no can do.

You join the military and then go on to engage in the torture of people, or the cover-up...crimes like Haditha..or when that Marine shot the injured man(on video -"he moved" ratatatratatat), later claiming he thought the disarmed,captured, injured man had a weapon and he felt threatened...or plant a weapon on the dead and lie and say the victim was an insurgent...or rape ...or steal... Then NO. I don't support the troops that do those things. I don't support the leadership that gives such orders and I don't support the government that sends troops off on illegal invasions.


but that's just me

[flamin lib]

11. I never suggested that anyone tolerate the invasion. Just understand

that the people who join the military are special for what they choose to do. They do things that nobody else will do, not because they have to but because they have the courage of their convictions.

No need to be angry or abusive.

[Karenina]

43. Whoomp dey it is.

The Original Lie. People who join the military are....















wait for it...























just ordinary people. They are in NO WAY "special."

[MyNameGoesHere]

6. Whaaaa?

The military is only necessary because we are idiots. We can't solve problems without hitting each other like a damn bunch of little babies. Necessary? Not if people actually had a brain cell or two.

[flamin lib]

9. It should be patently obvious that the human race as a whole

does not have a brain cell or two.

[cali]

20. Actually, it should be obvious that

it's not about brains so much as it is about biological imperative. It's a hard drive thing.

[MyNameGoesHere]

34. Well if that were the case

then we should still be hunting for wild game and clubbing our woman we want to breed with. I would like to think I could one day have the intelligence to overcome my biological instincts.

[The Stranger]

7. No, work for peace.

This is a Progressive web site.

[flamin lib]

10. I admire the sentiment and I too work for peace as much as I can.

But to pretend that that's all that is necessary is naive.

Work for crime free neighborhoods, disband the police.

Work for energy independence, cut the power lines to your home.

[The Stranger]

23. Support all the troops= support torture, massacre, chemical weapon usage.

Is that better?

[flamin lib]

28. No, it's not. And I don't.

[The Stranger]

35. Unfortunately, that is what it means to support all the troops.

Better to stop the "support the troops" thread-rallies on DU, where things like the above are lost in all the nationalism, and start ending the fucking war.

[flamin lib]

41. Unfortunately, that is what it means--no, it's not . nt

[flamin lib]

26. self delete

bad karma

[magellan]

12. Hey, if MY experience with a recruiter

...some 25 years ago is anything to go on, recruiters deserve no more respect than you'd give any salesman. They're lying bastards who'll say anything to get their claws on another warm body. Screw them.

[flamin lib]

22. As a professional saleman for more years than I care to count, I

resemble that remark.

Keep in mind that 38% of the population think Bush is doing okay. It's the job of recruiters to find the children of that 38%.

[magellan]

30. No offense intended

I was merely trying to point out that it's the salesman's job to sell, whether we go to them or they come to us, and it's the failed salesman who won't stretch the truth or omit salient fact. Recruiters are no different, except with them a loved one's life may very well hang in the balance.

I don't blame anyone for being rude to cold-calling recruiters, any more than I blame people who are rude to telemarketers.

[flamin lib]

37. Again, I resemble that remark. It is the failed salesman that has to

"tell the truth attractively". I learned early on that the key to failure is to fabricate features. I can proudly say that almost no customer/client I've ever had has resented doing business with me.

As for telemarketers, can you imagine how desperate someone must be to take that route to keep body and soul together? How far down would you be before you took that job? Then, when they are at the depths of despair, people are mean to them.

We are supposed to be the real party of compassion, the party that understands desperate circumstances, the party that understands how to be really strong on defense.

So far this thread shows a really sad face for the party.

[magellan]

49. Well then, I have only two things to say

First, I've never met a salesman like you before. In over 40 years.

And two, I'm not a Democrat. So perhaps that will make you feel better.

[TahitiNut]

14. Yup. People who want a better military can enlist.

After all, as long as someone must serve, why not you or yours? I guess it's easier to "let George do it" and then carp from the peanut gallery. :eyes:

[flamin lib]

25. I served long ago and far away in a time that was very interesting

to be in the military.

[TahitiNut]

29. Ditto.

USARV '69, E5 - fun times :eyes:

[flamin lib]

38. 69-72, spec 4. Only action I saw was in DC as a riot control grunt.

Interesting times. There for May Day and the Vietnam Moritorium. 500,000 protestors in the streets of DC. Stood guard on the Lincoln memorial and on the guards for the tomb for the unknown (second worst duty I ever had--felt absolutely like a shit watching those guys). ?Worst duty was urban sniper, but that's another thread--never fired a shot thank whoever.

Thanks for the service.

Long ago and far away . . .

[derby378]

15. No soldier goes into battle without a politician on his back

The more the military hears from people like us, the better it is for democracy in action. If North Korea were to nuke Anchorage, then we'd be swarming all over them like flies at a turd convention. But considering that your son or daughter will likely be sent to Iraq with no mission, no objectives, and no clue, I gotta side with the angry DU mother.

[Techno Dog]

16. this part

"They don’t get to choose which wars they fight."

Yes they sure do. Last time I checked Free Will was still alive and well in the USA.

[flamin lib]

27. Sure and you can choose which taxes you pay. nt

[Techno Dog]

32. Apples and Oranges

You choose to live here and pay taxes. Just like you choose to join the military.

[flamin lib]

39. Your taxes support this war. Make the decision you think others

should make.

[Techno Dog]

42. It's a shame

you need to keep changing the subject instead of admitting you are wrong when you say the soldiers have no choice which wars they fight.

[kiraboo]

17. I'm sorry, but I disagree with you too.

As a parent of teenage children, I will be polite one time, and one time only, should any recruiter call to speak with them about "career options." And while you might be able to argue - MAYBE - that the military is a necessary thing, anbody enlisting now is indeed aiding and abetting the shrub's agenda. If their "convictions" support that, then I see no reason to support them.

I try to have compassion for those who believe they have no other options, or who are somehow misled into thinking that learning how to destroy other people and other cities is a reasonable way to make a living, but frankly I have trouble. No doubt I offend. Ah well.

[flamin lib]

19. Polite one time is all that's called for. FWIW you can request that

they put your phone number on a "do not call" list. By law you can only be contacted by Political organizations, non profit organizations, established business contacts and through loopholes in NCLB military recruiters. If contacted by any of these you can request that they put your phone number on their required internal do not call list.

[kiraboo]

21. And we're on that list, naturally.

I'm always polite until somebody gives me reason not to be - a rare occurrence.

[ourbluenation]

18. Flamin - she requested that his name not be on the list provided by

his school. She's pissed and has a right to be pissed.

Don't mess with mom.

Sign me, mother of an 18 year old son.

[flamin lib]

24. Don't know which post you're referring to. You've got details

I'm not familiar with. If your poster requested the name be removed from the list and she got another call there is an $11,000 fine for placing the second call.

If it was the first call give the guy the benefit of a doubt--there are 38% out there who think the war is just dandy. It's his job to find them and their kids.

[ourbluenation]

33. but what if he saw the name on the list and called anyways?

How else would he have gotten his name?

I'd hang up on the mofo too.

[flamin lib]

40. There's an $11,000 find for calling a no-call number. nt

[porphyrian]

31. I support them in the field, but fuck them when they're recruiting.

The irritating lying bastards. And they shouldn't take my stand personally, just as I'm not supposed to take their bullshit personally.

Speaking of supporting the troops, what about the veterans? I'm not saying you don't, but I think it's totally obnoxious how often that phrase gets bandied about while this piece of shit administration cuts funding to the already under-funded vet hospitals during war-time so the richest Americans can keep a couple extra billion annually at everyone else's expense. Is this just old news now? Because in my book, that's fucking treason.

[flamin lib]

36. I see you haven't read a lot of my posts which is okay 'cause there's

a hell of a lot of posts here and I'm only an occasional poster.

Veteran's benefits are a hot button for me--one of the few things that make me lose my composure.

Again, not your responsibility to keep up with every single DUer much less me as an individual.

We can talk about Agent Orange, Gulf War Syndrome, Depleted Uranium, the fact that the VA ran out of money because they didn't anticipate so many prosthetics for amputees and the beat goes on. Yeah, I'm with ya' brother.

[Breeze54]

44. Stop making things up!

"In another post in GD a DUer recounted really unloading on a marine recruiter who called the home"

I didn't "really unload"! I told them not to call my house anymore! That's "really unloading"?
You haven't heard nothing yet!! ;)
I may have raised my voice, I really don't recall! But even if I did, so what? :shrug:
The phone call startled me (I just woke up!) and the fact it was someone UNINVITED calling, pissed me off!
I'm barely calmed down from having a son in Iraq and they have the nerve to call me?
After I specifically requested 'legally', that they NOT call my MINOR son?
And you're upset I might have 'raised my voice'?? You have got to be kidding me! :rofl:

Who are you? Kerry's ex-campaign manager?? :sarcasm:

Tough luck to them! They have been rude and totally discounted and stepped on my authority
over my 2nd oldest son and you can't understand why I might have the right to be angry at them?
So, you think I should just forget about that and let them go after my youngest son?

What the hell color is the sky in your world??
:crazy:

[flamin lib]

54. you're not the poster

[aikoaiko]

45. Excellent post.

Sad but true, there are democrats (fortunately just a few, but they are loud) who rail against either republicans or the military with the same idiotic rage posturing that is more befitting the right.

[Breeze54]

47. "Just a 'few'

democrats who rail against either republicans or the military with
the same idiotic rage posturing that is more befitting the right."
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Yes. Accept. Accept. Accept. DO NOT QUESTION AUTHORITY!
Let us not protest the republicans or the recruiters because, hell!
They're only doing their job! Be kind to them. Invite them in for tea!
Let them riffle through all your personal information, even your kids!
Quiet down there...go back to sleep. Everything is good. There is no evil.
You are safe and there are fairies in your head! All is good and kind and
gentle in the world and it is not your place to question authority
and horror of horrors! Don't make a loud noise! Shhhh!

Shhhhh! Go back to sleep, aikoaiko!
Please don't wake! You're only dreaming...... Zzzzzzzzz.






shhhhhh....

[midnight]

46. Can someone tell me how to get help

for a soldiers mother. My husbands co-worker has a son who is being charged for murder over in Iraq. This women has taken a leave of absence because of the stress of leaving her home from the press.

[Jersey Ginny]

48. Tragic news. If she is in NJ, she can email me

I think email is available through DU. If not, I'll check this thread tomorrow for a reply. I am a clinical social worker.

[midnight]

53. Thanks, I'll check back here later today and see if any info.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

51. I'd be about as polite as I am to anyone selling crap.

[lebkuchen]

52. "Support the troops" is a meaningless slogan

which has about as much meaning as "Support West Virginians."

What you seem to be advocating is "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."