So let's vet Russ.

[Clark2008]

I really like Russ Feingold. He's honest, he's brave and he defends the Constitution.

So, how would he fare in a general election?

Russ is the third choice of my three-choice trifecta: Wesley Clark comes in, obviously, at No. 1. As a Tennessean, Al Gore, my first political "crush" slides in a No. 2 and Russ is No. 3.

I also break down candidates by how well they would fare in a general election. I think Wes could win in a general election because he's both Southern AND mid-Western. He's got a master's and taught economics and has tremendous foreign policy and national security experience - two things most Americans look for when voting in a presidential election, particularly when we're at war. I think he also could relate to those "Heartland" voters we keep losing - in other words, he could flip a red state or two, which we HAVE to do in order to win (and beat Diebold), so I don't want to hear any "fuck the South" comments. That's just insane.

Al Gore has a lot of the qualities necessary for pulling the country together, as well. He's also from the "Heartland" and also has foreign policy experience, not to mention he's on the cutting edge of the latest American problem: how to save the environment while reducing our dependence on foreign oil. The two go hand-in-hand, really.

They are two Democratic candidates whom I KNOW would have a shot at winning the general election AND would be good for the average working and middle-class American.

There are other candidates, such as former Virginia Gov. Mark Warner, who have appeal in the South and possibly mid-West, and COULD win a general election, but I don't necessarily believe Warner, or any other DLCer, would be good for the working man or woman of America.

So, how do you think Russ would fare?

Be honest.

I know he's extremely popular and he's doing a marvelous job, but, please, when you answer, don't let your emotions take over. I want an honest assessment.

[ulysses]

1. I think Russ could have trouble in a couple of areas.

His liberal rep preceeds him, of course. I love this myself, but you know what "they" say about liberals.

Other than that, the fact that he's divorced and Jewish could have an impact, although I don't think it'd be as big as some might fear. I don't think he'd be a slam dunk, but I think he'd have a fine chance, particularly if the national mood is anything like it is now.

[marmar]

2. Agree. I worried about the reaction to him being Jewish and divorced...

but you know what, the people who wouldn't vote for him on those grounds probably wouldn't vote Democrat anyway....

Gore, Feingold, Edwards - I'd be happy with either of the three. I don't know enough about Wesley Clark to get as excited about him.

[Clark2008]

3. For more on Wes, go here:

www.securingamerica.com

I think he'd have an easier time in a general election that Edwards. Edwards former profession and lack of creds in areas of foreign policy and national security will hurt him in his "home turf" of the South.

[marmar]

4. Thanks for the link.

:)

[ulysses]

5. a fair point re: wouldn't vote Dem anyway

I'm really pleased with a good chunk of our prospective candidates for '08, specifically Feingold, Gore, Clark and Edwards, in something like that order. I wasn't sure about Clark or Edwards in '04, but like both men a great deal now.

[Clark2008]

6. Well, unlike what you read here half the time, the South

isn't totally red. In fact, the mid-West is more red than the South. Tennessee and Virginia have neck-and-neck races for Senate now and Arkansas can be flipped with the right person.

Therefore, I think there are a good number of people who WOULD vote Democratic if the right person were running. Just wondering if Russ could be considered that "right person." Or left, in this case. :7

[ulysses]

10. I'm in GA.

:) I know.

Doubt he'd carry my neighbors, but I suspect he'd do as well in the south as a whole as anyone except *maybe* Clark. Beware reliance on the military connection, though.

[Clark2008]

13. I'm not making the military connection... I'm making the

foreign policy connection. :7

[ulysses]

14. and I say "tomayto"...

;)

[Clark2008]

21. Yea - we are talking about a lot of sheeple voter here...

Those who couldn't distinguish from military to foreign policy to diplomacy to international affairs.

What part of Georgia are you in? I'm in Knoxville, TN.

Howdy neighbor! :hi:

[ulysses]

22. Douglasville

west of Atlanta. :hi:

[im10ashus]

46. My partner is originally from Smyrna.

His parents are still there. And they are dem's through and through. A rarity in them there parts.

:hi:

[diamondsndust]

50. I lived in Douglasville for 10 years...

still have family there. I moved to Tenn almost 4 years ago. My aunt & uncle own the gun shop and tax shop downtown.

[iconoclastNYC]

39. WHAT?

The midwest is more red that the South? What are you talking about?

[MADem]

7. Actually, I think that bastard Lieberman cracked that nut

I really don't think being Jewish is an issue anymore, and I don't think Russ is Modern Orthodox, is he? If he's reform, then it's even less of an issue for those that worry about that sort of thing.

After all, the Gore-Lieberman team DID get the most votes.

I think the two divorces are more problematic, but I also think, if the country is in a deep enough hellhole, and he is profoundly articulate and precise and relentless with his message, that it's possible that he could overcome that. It all depends on the effectiveness of the GOP smear campaign, AND if the public mood is that the people are sick of that smear crap. AND...if the MSM plays fair (don't hold your breath, there).

He's a long shot, but then, who in hell ever thought that an AWOL, cokehead, drunken nitwit would be able to grab the brass ring???

[ulysses]

hell, I don't know if he's even practicing

much less Orthodox.

[iamjoy]

12. It Has Definately Influenced Him

but, I'm with you, I don't think he's devout. In fact, I'm pretty sure he's reform - the most liberal type of Judaism. Don't read anything political into my use of liberal.

In one article I read, he reminisced about his rabbi saying "the ten commandments are not the ten suggestions" Feingold then went on to compare to the Bill of Rights not being suggestions either.

[ulysses]

36. all fine by me.

:)

[ulysses]

8. dupe

[Clark2008]

9. But, the AWOL, cokehead, drunken nitwit has the backing

of the corporate media and, whether we like it or not, the sneaky persuasiveness of Karl Goebbels.. erm, I mean, Rove.

[MADem]

11. Oh, sure, there'd be a need for deep, deep pockets of cash

and a strategy team that was flat-out brutal. The corporate media will follow the marketplace--if enough people are pissed at the GOP status quo, they'll go where the customers are, craven whores that they are.

It also wouldn't hurt if his ex-wives said really nice things about him, maybe did a little campaigning, and said the divorces were amicable because he was so dedicated to his work and in essence married to his job.

It's definitely a long shot, but stranger things can, and have, happened.

[cinci_democrat]

16. Is that John Entwistle that keeps dancing across my screen?

or Pete? Either way...I'm about to go into an epileptic siezure...and I'm not even epileptic!

[Clark2008]

18. LOL! It's Pete.

I just got through watching them live at the Leeds festival online.

I'm in a Who kind of mood. :7

Sorry for the epileptic seizure, though! :hi:

[cinci_democrat]

38. Will always love the Who

saw them in Philly during the Quadrophenia tour....unbelievable!...absolutely the best concert I've ever seen...except maybe for Springsteen...I'm not sure. There's much about the 70's that I will always be a little unsure about. :)

[iconoclastNYC]

40. He has cross over appeal for Paleocons who fear federal police power

That is the wedge issue for 2008. Federal Police power. The Paleocons are in near-open revolt agains this presidents unamerican unconstitution powergrab for increased Federal Police power.

Feingold was THE ONLY person to vote against the Patriot act (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=107&session=1&vote=00313)

And he's good on cleaning up campaign finance, which is another issue that has cross over appeal.

Of all the people talked about in 2008 I think I'd most like to sell Feingold to a Republican.

"A different kinda of Democrat"

[cascadiance]

45. Feingold is THE senator that protects civil liberties

Not only was he the one holding out for our rights for the Patriot Act, but he's had a history in the past of standing up for civil liberties as well. Back in the 90's during the Clinton years, when the corporate machine bought off both parties to push through the big Telecommunications Act (which Clinton unfortunately didn't veto). Feingold was one of only five senators to vote against this. The other four were Patrick Leahy, John McCain, Paul Wellstone, and Paul Simon.

In addition to helping the corporate media consolidation start ramping up at full speed that gave us the likes of Newscorp, Clear Channel, Sinclair, etc. that are screwing up our media, this bill also tried to put in place the Communications Decency Act, another attempt at unconsitutional abridgement of our civil liberties too on the internet.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

24. Reagan was divorced and feebleminded.

Didn't stop him.

[Crazy Guggenheim]

25. Though I agree with you there is the problem of whether or not the

Democrats can do it?

:popcorn: :popcorn:

[SmokingJacket]

15. This damn country is probably a long way from a Jewish president.

Or a Black, woman, Latino, or disabled one.

I love Feingold, however, and if the primary were held today I would vote for him (or possibly Gore) -- because I believe making calculations on what OTHER people might or might not do at the polls is very unwise. I'm going to vote for the person I think is BEST, period.

[Clark2008]

17. My husband is Jewish and this is what he says, as well.

I, of course, am female, and I agree with you on the female president part (which is one of the reasons I hope Hillary Clinton is not the nominee - I just think this country is far too gynophobic).

And, I completely understand what you're saying about how you vote, but I really don't want the Democratic nominee to be someone who has no shot in hell of winning the national election (like Hillary or Biden).

[SmokingJacket]

19. If it's wrong not to vote for someone because he's Jewish...

it's JUST as wrong not to vote for him because you think OTHER PEOPLE won't vote for him because he's Jewish -- or a woman. You know? My gripe with Hilary has nothing to do with her gender.

Ultimately, when you're alone in that voting booth, I think you have the duty to vote for the person you honestly believe will do the best job. We can yakk all day on the internet, but when push comes to shove, I'm going to forget about marketing and what other people might or might not do, and go with the best candidate.

[Clark2008]

20. I know, I know. It's a conundrum for me.

I both want to vote for the best person AND have who I consider to be the best person be the best candidate.

[Crazy Guggenheim]

23. SJ. Actually FDR was in disabled. They're are not totally sure if

Warren G. Harding was white. There is some evidence that he was black.

[SmokingJacket]

28. I know about FDR, but weren't most people unaware of that

at the time?

Yeah, I'm a cynic. Hopefully, I'll be proven wrong.

Interesting about Harding....

[dsc]

30. Harding was black? I literally never heard of that

do you have any links to that evidence? It would actually be pretty sad on one level. The only gay President was the horrid Buchanan and if Harding is black the only black President will also have been terrible.

[me b zola]

26. I don't buy into that argument

I believe the real issue is that any candidate who represents the people and not a think tank or corporations is going to have a hell of a time getting elected (officially). Race, gender, and religion won't matter, imo, if the candidate is either a) backed by the powers that be, or b) the real deal. Russ Feingold is the real deal--at a time when the nation craves for leadership and not more bs politics.

I'm like you, I love Feingold and I think that he would make an exceptional POTUS. I'm longing for the day for him to really be seen & heard nationally (remember, right now it is mostly political geeks like us who have really heard him speak). I think that the rest of the nation will be won over by all of Russ' qualities that we admire in him. :)

[SmokingJacket]

27. I hope you're right!

I've just had a few life experiences that have made me cynical about people -- but I'm eager to be proven wrong.

[Sugarcoated]

29. I agree completely

His biggest asset is Russ Feingold. My husband and I watched MTP this morning and he was very impressed, said he explained issues more simply than Kerry ever could, didn't go on too long. But, he worried that he needs to be seen, needs more exposure. I've read from veteran Russ people that he's timing it. But to see him is to be won over - likability. He won over many Bush voters in Wisconsin in '04, won by a larger margin that the last election, and it was speculated that it's that he's a fiscally conservative while liberal on the human issues. They don't always agree with him - but he takes a stand and speaks it plainly and clearly.

One of the main reasons I think he's electable is his ability to deflect the smear, neutralizes it. Turns perceived negatives into positives, knows how to frame the issues. He's believable, he's honest, '08 will be about honesty. Check out his old campaign commercials - his underdog thing is hard to resist.

He rips em apart with a nice guy attitude, a shark with a smile.

As far as winning states I'm a political newbie in this reguard, but with his midwestern plain spokeness I think he would win every single blue state Kerry won, possibly a couple midwestern coups like Iowa or Montana, possibly Virgina.

I'm totally biased, true, but I still think my analysis hols up.

[BreweryYardRat]

33. Buh?

We've already had a physically disabled president. Forgetting FDR?

However, I will agree that the odds of having another physically disabled president (as opposed to mental defectives like *) anytime soon are low.

[bklyncowgirl]

34. Anyone who won't vote for a Jew isn't voting Democrat anyway

I wouldn't worry about that too much.

[NJ Democrats]

31. Russ would do well

in the Mid-West (Like Iowa, Indiana, Missouri, etc.) I don't thnik him being Jewish makes a difference. And anyway, all those right-wingers support Israel and they will expect a Jew to as well. He would him in Fla, (I know they said that about Lieberman as well) and other states with large Jewish pop (except most are in blue states) I think he could win and I want him to. But I think he would also be a good chocie for VP with Gore, CLark or Edwards...
The divorces will hurt him more though.
Btw, I'm Jewish.

[doc mercer]

32. 08

With half the country divorced I am hoping that is not an issue .... he came off very Presidential
today and I was totally impressed

I see Clark as a running mate for Gore or Feingold ... Feingold I see as a rising star, a breath of
fresh air and a man who can connect with voters and he has my vote if he decides he wants to run

[bklyncowgirl]

35. Anyone know what Feingold's like to work with or more bluntly....

he strikes me as a bit of a prick. Is he really like that or is it just my imagination.

First of all, let me say I like Russ and what he's been saying and doing. He's smart and he's honest and he's not afraid to stand alone on principle. That's a rare combination in a politician.

My concern has to do with his ability to manage highly qualified and accomplished people.

Does Russ Feingold play well with others? Right now he has the Democratic leadership furious at him. Mind you, of course those guys deserved a good swift kick in the pants so that may not be a bad thing. He does seem, however to be something of a loner. The two divorces make me think that he might be a hard guy guy to live with and maybe something of a prick to work with.

Being a bit of a prick wouldn't disqualify him, of course. You have to be something of a prick to be a good president. There is a point though where a my way or the highway attitude can be counterproductive. If he's going to be able to do the job he has to be an effective manager.

So does anyone know what he's like in the office?

[iconoclastNYC]

42. He went up against the beltway Mafia in D.C.

They hate him because McCain Feingold helped turn off the corporate cash the DLC was using to take over control of the party.

What did you he do to make you think he's a prick? Was it a speech or a media appearance? He seems very likable to me. Unless your Dubya or his rubber stamp republican congress.

[blm]

48. McCain-feingold didn't effect the corporate cash - it's there more than

ever just thru loopholes and directing to what M-F did allow.

What McCain-Feingold DID do was provide a weak band aid that took attention away from Kerry-Wellstone's public financing bill Clean Money, Clean Elections that they submitted in 1997, which is when Feingold chose to work with McCain, instead.

[iconoclastNYC]

49. If Kerry-Welstone had the votes it would be the law

McCain/Feingold is better than no bill and unlimited amounts of soft money.

Lets see what campaign finance bill comes out of the next Democratic Congress. I'm not holding my breath.

[Cocoa]

44. I see his independence as his best quality

the chumminess of the Joe Biden and Joe Lieberman types is a big turnoff to me.

And he does know how to compromise and politick as well. His parterning with John Kerry is a good example.

[NCarolinawoman]

37. I like Russ a lot, but he will be perceived as weak on National Security.

On most of the issues he comes down in the exact way that General Clark does. Both are profoundly concerned about privacy issues and losing our civil liberties. The problem is the majority of people in this country do not understand the Constitution: they just want to "feel" safe. So combining that with Russ's many anti-war stances, (with the exception of Afghanistan) he could be easy pickings for the Republicans. He was against Gulf War 1, which back in '92, helped give Al Gore, who supported intervention, a lot of national security credentials. Gore's speech on this and his military service were brought up often, in contrast to Clinton, who was perceived as lacking in this regard. Strange to think that this was pre 9/11.

I had to do a lot of research on Feingold cause I just didn't know much about the guy. I loved a lot of what I read. My only real bone of contention was his lack of support for the NATO intervention in Bosnia and Kosovo. Feingold has spoken out against genocide and ethnic cleansing; even specifically mentioning the genocide in Yugoslavia. Yet he voted against the NATO involvement. So this did not make sense to me. Anyway, I think "National Security" could become his achilles heel, whether fair or not.

Let me make it clear that I don't necessarily think voting for war gives people national security credentials. It often means just the opposite: just trying to look tough or do the popular thing. Obviously many tried that the last go-round with tragic consequences.

[iconoclastNYC]

41. Even if we run the most PRO-war candidate we can find

They'll still label him as weak on terror or whatever.

The thing to look at is cross-over appeal.

A DLC democrat will splinter our base and i dont think they appeal to swing voters anwyay.

The thing is what is going to appeal to Paleocons? Who's the best protest vote against thier party?

Feingold is the only person to vote against the Patriot act.

Paleocons fears government power more then they fear "LIBERALS"

Feingold has tremendous cross over appeal. And he can talk about real issues facing American families because he doesn't take corporate money and doesn't have to tow the line on the DLC profits-first agenda.

[me b zola]

43. IMO, when people hear Russ speak they will know that he is strong on NS

You said that you have researched Feingold, but have you seen him speak? More specifically, did you catch him on last Sunday's MTP? He was very knowledgable & convincing in speaking about national security and foreign policy. He pointed out that the number of countries that our government says has ties to terrorist organizations has doubled since 911, and of course Iraq was never one of them. He also explained how the mistake of going into Iraq has not only drained our resources (militay & treasury), but has also distracted us from the areas in the world that are falling prey to Al Quaeda.

I believe that until he is able to be seen and heard nationally, the press will be able to paint Feingold as weak on national security, but I think that national exposure will win over the hearts and minds of the heartland :)

[im10ashus]

47. I agree with all you say. I love Russ.

He's smart and not afraid of speaking his mind. He isn't one who panders, at least from my observatory p.o.v. He is always kind, cool and informed. Qualities we need.