Musings From Tom Joad Country

[Sheila Samples]

I've been reading about this "grass roots" phenomenon that's sweeping the country. It must not have "swept" down this far, because I scoured the prairies and plains of Oklahoma, and the only thing I came up with was a clump or two of Johnson grass, a few scraggly buffalo and some errant loco weed...

In fact, there's not much movement of any kind in Tom Joad Country. Maybe that's because Oklahoma has always been, or at least has had the reputation of being, not only poor but backwards both intellectually and culturally. If I were so inclined, I could probably debunk this fallacy, but I'd have to start in Tulsa and move east...

People west of Tulsa aren't too concerned with politics. We get involved and come alive for only a couple of things -- A six-pack of Bud Light and OU football. Tulsa denizens like to think of themselves as "cosmopolitan" and politically hip, but they have a tendency to look at issues through an oil prism. That's why we always end up with Stupid White Men like Don Nickles, Jim Inhofe, and Tom Cole. When you think about it, I guess it serves us right...

Okies are independent and "don't want the damned government bleepin' around in their business..." Their political ideology is based on this ONE issue -- Republicans want smaller government; ergo -- they vote Republican. They also have a tendency to believe whatever it is that the last person -- usually a preacher - -says to them. Since Democrats have no voice in Oklahoma, Okies believe Republicans and vote Republican.

I do not understand, however, how the elderly -- most of whom would have starved to death if it had not been for Roosevelt and the Democrats -- could ever vote Republican. But in Oklahoma, they do, and are dadgummed proud of it.

I do not understand how any military - -and we have a large military presence throughout the state -- could vote Republican. Most military, especially lower enlisted, are in the services as a direct result of being unable to make a living anywhere else. The US military is the largest welfare program in the world. Lifers, such as Colin Powell, have never received a paycheck that wasn't drawn on the government. Powell, and so many others like him, would not be where they are today if it had not been for government "affirmative action."

The same with civil servants -- government paychecks and retirement bennies come directly from Sam. I should know. Like Powell, I devoted my entire working life to the government and, although I don't make out like a bandit every month, thanks to Sam I can afford to put food on my family. But in Oklahoma, most of these retired military and civilian folks enthusiastically support programs that cut their own livelihoods -- literally foreclose on their children's future -- by voting Republican...

If we have a grass roots movement in Oklahoma, it is fueled by militant Christians -- mostly southern Baptists who have no clue about the intricacies of politics, but are told by their Christian right-wing brethern that Democrats are whoremongers who think every woman should have an abortion whether she wants one or not, and the gays are coming after their children. This is enough to drive them to the polls to vote Republican.

Okies love America, they love their born-again idiot president, and they are proud to be blind and brazen warriors in God's Very Own Army. Together, they and Bush are proudly in lockstep -- insanely marching to Zion...

But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong...

Sheila

[dweller]

1. Hiya Sheila !

:hi:

belated welcome to DU. I have enjoyed your ed's in the past when they have been prominant on the
DU front page, i didn't know you were posting here also.

Looking forward to more from you.

peace
dp

[OwnedByFerrets]

2. Just wanted to say.....Fabulous Post!

n/t

[mntleo2]

5. From The Socialist Republic Of Washington...

...or so that is what T Roosevelt called us back in our WOBBLIE days, those east of the mountains that are not exploited fruit pickers, why they not only ousted our Democratic Speaker Of The House for a Repug nimrod called Nethercutt who never fails to embarrass the West Side of the state whenever he opens his big pie hole, they fly those yeller ribbons on their mega-SUVs and think they are just SO patriotic ~ just so long as it is not them but "Manuel" over there sending HIS daughters and sons to Iraq.

My 2 cents

Cat In Seattle

[Sheila Samples]

9. To Cat in Seattle

Amen, Brother/Sister...

Had to grin at Cheney this week when he stamped his little cloven hooves and said the Democrats' call to "cut and run" from this war "offended him." If we leave Iraq, he said, it will show the world that we don't have the stomach for this war...

Cheney is "pot and kettling" this issue -- what was he doing during the Vietnam era other than cutting and running all over the country in a frenzied effort to stay ahead of the draft? Had more important things to do with his life, he said. Like "plotting and planning" a massive global war to seize the world's resources while killing millions of innocents.

Somehow that offends me...

ss

[Sheila Samples]

8. To dweller

Hi, dp..

Thanks so much. I love DU and the "family" atmosphere I find here. I tried to respond last night, but my ISP was having problems and I was unable to.

ss

[Elwood P Dowd]

3. Same here in Atticus Finch country

though I've seen recent polls putting Bush at only 48% approval. If all the damn brainwashed baptists would leave the state, it would probably be less than 30%. These idiots are with Bushitler regardless of what the little spoiled dickhead does or says.

[charlyvi]

4. Checking in from Roy Moore country.

Need I say more (no pun intended)? I live in a small town of about 1900 people. I wasn't raised here (raised in Chicago) but my parents' families were. My cousins are bushbots to the core; they don't really say why, but religion is at the core of it. They actually think shrub is a Christian man! Funny thing is, my aunts and uncles, their parents, were all Roosevelt democrats to the bone--economics ruled their vote, religion was a private matter that had nothing to do with politics. What happened to change one generation from another is criminal. But, anyway, thought I'd check in with my thoughts on this red state strangeness too.

[Sheila Samples]

11. To charlyvi

I hear you. I am the only Democrat in my entire evangelical right-wing family. The fact that Bush said he was "born again" gave him a ticket to ride...to kill...to destroy...to lie... When I ask my sisters, who go to church every time the doors open, how they can reconcile what Bush has done with their beliefs, they shrug and say it's not their place to question "God's will." Sheesh! Is there any better way to blaspheme God than to blame Him for evrything Bush does?

[Glorfindel]

6. Yoknapatawpha County here...

it's maybe even worse. Mississippians are like whipped dogs, licking the boots of their Repuke masters who have just kicked them, and will shortly kick them again.

[woofless]

7. Who says Oklahoma is Okay?

[yellerpup]

10. I watched my father vote against his own interests in Oklahoma

his whole life long. He worked for various oil companies and voted the way his employer wanted him to vote. Even as a child, I thought he was ignorant to do this but nothing could prevent him from voting away his rights, not even after fighting for them in WWII and Korea. His attraction to the Republican party was based on his bigotry and to the end of his days he cursed LBJ for the Civil Rights Act and praised the "misunderstood" Samaritans of the KKK who (according to him) only tried to straighten out those who were guilty of wrong thinking. We fought bitterly and disrespected each other heartily from the time I was 13 until the day he died. While Oklahoma still occupies a fond place in many of my memories, I must say that I do not miss being there to hear that silly shit (Republican, Conservative, Christian propaganda) repeated as if it were wisdom. Ever. Good essay, Shiela.

[Sheila Samples]

13. To yellerpup

That is so sad, but there are so many more like your dad here in Oklahoma. Voting against abortions and gays is far more important to Oklahoma voters than voting "for" anything. They are convinced that all Democrats are Godless sinners, and there's no doubt in my mind if the Republicans manage to get the Pat Robertsons and Jerry Falwells in power so we can have "one nation under God," we will all be stoned to death.

Or worse -- burned at the stake -- which is what happened the last time the God People were in control...

ss

[yellerpup]

17. Oh yes, God's People and the Inquisition

that lasted just about 500 years--burning women (they called them witches, today we might call them herbalists, midwives or healers) and homosexuals (the origin of the epithet "faggot") at the stake. I don't mean to get off topic here, but I find it very interesting that the world of Islam is now fighting it's Jihad (kill all Infidels) in the world just about 500 years after The Crusades. Their religion is younger but springs from the same source (the sons of Abraham) only now we have atomic weapons. Maybe Muslim nations don't have a separation of church and state but we do, or at least we are supposed to. I'm with you, no God People in charge of government.

[Rose Siding]

12. Disapproval of Bush is at 51% in Oklahoma

Just 39% disapproved a year ago-
http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollTrack.aspx?g=cc83be6c-5d4a-4fa3-8db9-39f8eaeb8b5e

That's not necessarily indicative of grassroots movement, but there are people in OK who are giving it a shot-

http://www.oklahomagrassrootscampaign.com/

http://www.democracyforoklahoma.com/home.html

http://www.bertsmithforcongress.com/

The governor's a Dem and is ahead in polls for re-election
http://www.democrats.org/a/2006/05/henry_up_by_11.php

Tulsa just elected a Dem mayor
http://www.democrats.org/a/2006/04/oklahoma_tulsa.php

There will always be uninformed people, seemingly committed to the demise of everything that logic says they should hold dear. My own dad, with his union pension and complete healthcare, and his gay son, and his big heart (on a personal level) is a....damn, I can hardly say it.....a Republican who voted for Bush.

I'm near Seattle, fergawdssake, but if I just looked out my window to see my neighbor's fading "Bush/Cheney" sign you'd never know it. The sainted Jim McDermott's our rep but that sign sure is depressing.

Today's repub party is shooting that "small govt" fallacy to bits. Even Okeys can see that. Coburn's an embarrassment. I don't know what to tell you about that. I got nothin' for you there.

[Sheila Samples]

15. To Rose Siding

There are many wonderful people in Oklahoma; most of whom are not concerned with politics at all. Those who are have to make a gargantuan effort to get the truth. Every newspaper in this state is right-wing, none more so than The Daily Oklahoman, with the Tulsa World running a close second. Radios blare round-the-clock with frenzied wingers like Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly and Mark Davis spreading lies and hate against the evil liberals -- Fox News is the TV station of choice.

The voice crying in the Oklahoma Christofascist wilderness is that of Frosty Troy and his wonderful bi-weekly Oklahoma Observer. Troy has long been the gadfly of the Oklahoma legislature and he covers national news and commentary as well. Unfortunately, Troy does not have a website, but you can contact him at [e-mail]. I'm not saying you should subscribe to the Observer, but if you want to know the truth about what's going on in this madhouse, that's where you'll get it...

Sheila

[Rose Siding]

21. You might enjoy this, Sheila-

FDL has an inspiring story about progressive success in OKC involving the work of a small newspaper.

http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/06/25/how-to-build-a-world-class-city/

[procopia]

40. Frosty Troy is the best

but another voice that isn't conservative is the Oklahoma Gazette. Recently it published "Another Red Flag of Ignorance," an excellent pro-choice article by Okie Funk blogger, Kurt Hochenauer: http://www.okgazette.com/news/templates/commentary.asp?articleid=591&zoneid=6

I recommend it highly.

[Sheila Samples]

42. To procopia

Great site -- it also took me to author's site -- Okie Funk. Neat. Thanks

[bobbieinok]

47. Tulsa's democratic mayor has been under constant, 24/7 attack

since before she was elected.

DelGiorno at KFAQ has done one thing right: he's pointed out the corruption in the construction of the downtown complex and the fairgrounds. His constant discussion of the republican mayor LaFortune's mismanagement and 'maybe lies' probably helped defeat the republicans. Now of course he is so happy that he can blame it all on the democratic mayor. He also attacks waste and mismanagement at the state level (all the democrats' fault, of course). I'm trying to figure out a way to call in and ask him where's his 24/7 outrage over the no-bid Haliburton contracts, the 'loss' of $9 billion from the DOD, etc.

BTW, DelGiorno really rants about illegal immigration (surprise! surprise!). The other day someone called in to tell about a trip to the ER; the caller mentioned a Hispanic 'looking' family with (I think) 4 children. DelGiorno immediately jumped in: '4 children??? they must be illegals.' This in a state, where (unlike IA, where I lived til I moved back in 1989) families with 3-5/6 children are NOT uncommon; the religious right is following 'be fruitful and multiply.' The only other state where I have seen families with so many children is Utah; I assume the large families there are the result of Mormon doctrine.

[a la izquierda]

14. Come on down to Norman...

we've got political activism here. When I moved to Oklahoma from California the number of W stickers on cars appalled me. Then I started seeing those effin' stick man + stick woman=marriage stickers. It's been hell not running them off the road. I've sat in bars and gotten into political debates that generally end with me shouting "F u" after being called a smelly Liberal California hippie (I'm neither smelly nor a hippie, a baby killer, and unpatriotic. I've overheard women in bars state how Democrats don't believe in God, which prompted a "I'm a liberal AND A CATHOLIC, you ignorant shit" (and then promptly got thrown out). But in Norman, where there are people with brains, political debate can be quite lively. And not all old folks vote Republican here-a little old lady came looking for me to see if I'd volunteer for the campaigns in the Fall. And I know quite a few older "yellow dog democrats".
But sadly, Sheila's right for much of the state...people here are so thick-headed when it comes to politics. Your beliefs are your beliefs, but you better have damn good explanations for why you think the way you do. "My preacher says voting for Bush is what god would want", is not a good reason. There's no grassroots organization in most of the state, just red dirt, homophobes and pick 'em up trucks.

[Sheila Samples]

16. To michele77

Been there. Done that. But, being an OSU fan, I doubt that I would find safe haven in the OU lair of Norman...LOL

Like you, I believe in God -- just not their God who condones killing innocents across the globe to further their political aspirations, and who supports ripping the social safety net from under millions here in this country who now have no access to medicine, food, education -- assistance they need to survive. I believe in Mother Teresa's God, who said if you can't feed 100 -- then feed just one...

I don't think it's too much to ask the God in whom I believe if I can be a mouse -- just a tiny little mouse -- in the corner when this bunch struts into His presence to receive their just reward.

ss

[madokie]

18. I have a question for you Sheila

why is is an osu fan will in a playoff that includes ou and any other team be for the other team while on the other hand ou fans will pull for the cowboys every time? inquiring minds want to know :shrug:

[Sheila Samples]

29. To madokie

I have to admit I'm prejudiced in this area -- has a lot to do with Switzer's behind-the-scenes crap, such as letting players use his office for sex. He also had a plan to screw the Indians out of their gambling money, but the tribes were so busy fighting each other that the deal didn't get off the ground. I was at the Comanche Bingo Hall one night, and knowing I was a sports writer, the lady in charge said, "Come here -- there's someone I know you would like to meet..." When I walked over, I was eyeball-to-eyeball with Switzer. I behaved myself, but she got an earfull when he left...LOL

I can't answer your question because I've never paid that much attention to OU fans during an OSU game. If everybody's cheering at the game, how can you tell who is an OU fan? I am not so gracious. I start getting pissed off when the OU team shows up at the stadium. By the time they take the field, I'm fighting mad... But I will admit I root for OU when they're playing Texas.

But then -- I'm a Jets fan. What else can I say?

ss

[madokie]

37. I didn't mean anything by my question but it is one I hear often

Yes I am still disgusted with switzer. I believe the important thing with sports is not winning it is teamwork and being a sportsman. I don't like a cheat no matter what. I would like you to know I really enjoy reading what you write, I'm always in agreement with what you say. Glad to see you posting here on GD.

[a la izquierda]

44. hah!

you'd be alright down here.
Incidentally, this organization I'm a part of is having a little meeting with John Sparks this Thursday. I'm very, very curious to see what he has to say! I'll let you all know.

[Jeanette in FL]

20. You sound like a fiesty one there, Michele77

Welcome to DU and glad you are on our side of the aisle.

[Loge23]

19. Just saw my sister from OK

It had been awhile - 20+ years. She married a military man from Texas and moved to OK some years ago.
Of course, the outrage in DC came up in the course of the conversation. She mentioned that people in OK "are very conservative." Sensing an opening, I immediately asked her how "conservatives" could continue to support the dictator - what which a record deficit and out of control government spending.
She replied that the main points of attraction/support for these red staters are gay marriage and abortion. So it doesn't matter how inept, incompetent, or idiotic he is - as long as he's against gay marriage and abortion, he's their man.
So true in many other red states with misguided, so-called christians.

[pecwae]

22. So glad to see you here, Sheila!

You replied to an email I sent you some years back after I read one of your online eds. I was feeling bad (guilt, regret) about my role as an Information Specialist with 1st SOCOM. Your reply helped. Thanks.

I reckon you'll feel right to home here:hi:

[Sheila Samples]

32. To pecwae

Hi again...

I am proud of every day I spent working for the Army and Air Force. We worked under the philosophy of former Army Sec Bo Callaway, who said the best way to defuse a potential PR problem was to jump out in front of it and say, "I'm glad you asked that!" and then tell the truth and take your licks. The services have not changed -- Cheney and Rummy are destroying them, with malice aforethought.

Don't ever be ashamed of your service.
ss

[HB1]

23. Sheila, you offer interesting insight

into why people sometimes vote against their own best interests. Perception and conditioning have the power to trump reality.

[catrose]

24. 22 years in Tulsa

1 in Bartlesville...

Yep, Sheila, you've got it right. Thanks for the expose and trip down (shudder) memory lane.

Of course, I'm in Texas now, where it's SO much better (/snark).

[tomreedtoon]

25. There's a guy in Knuckledrag, OK you may want to see...

He's been waging a war since he was first irritated by Rush Limbaugh. With the Bush wins, which happened with the full support of the Pink Tutu Democrats, he's been fighting a lonely, uphill battle.

True, he does say some things that would irritate people on DU - he believes in gun ownership for personal defense, and he thinks that Hillary Clinton may be the best candidate for 2008. But he believes in his cause enough that he has quit his regular job to work on his web site full time - this despite his having severe illness and, of course, no medical coverage. He believes his ideals are worth more than making a fortune or compromising with the Bushes - and how many Democrats can actually say that?

You can find his works at http://www.bartcop.com - if you dare.

[madokie]

28. I just checked it out, cool. is that fella you by any chance?

I'm not too damn far from knuckledrag myself.:rofl:

[tomreedtoon]

38. No. I just give him a little dribble of money.

And if you do, you can download his podcast show (with a lot of him ranting, a little music and some comedy) and know you're supporting somebody who, unlike most of the Democrats, wants to insure that the Republicans lose.

[Sheila Samples]

33. To Tomreedtoon

Yes, I am familiar with Bart -- visit his site several times a week. Love it. I have nothing against Hillary, but do not think she is the best we have to offer for president. I am concerned about her stance on Iraq, her sucking up to Fox News -- she is too Liebermanesque in too many areas for my taste. I think the perfect ticket, and one for which I am prepared to fight -- is Al Gore/Russ Feingold.

ss

[tomreedtoon]

39. I'm still on the fence about Gore.

I don't think the voters needed to overcome Bush will be willing to vote for Gore, who (despite his recent apparent visibility) is still a windbag English Literature professor who puts most of the class to sleep. He might be right about a lot of the issues, but his pedantic matter and his inability to speak straight, briefly and to the point are crippling problems.

At this point I think Hillary Clinton has too many liabilities. She has too many liabilities - besides her Iraq position and her Faux News stuff, her speeches that I've seen don't make her look Presidential. If she should get the nomination, the Republicans are ready with Swiftboat attacks that will make Kerry's look like a rubber duck in a bathtub.

As of yet, none of the three proposed front-runners - Kerry, Gore or Clinton - look admirable. They're all tarnished. I think the party might be better with the reversal of your ticket - Feingold/Gore.

[Sheila Samples]

41. To tomreedtoon

That'll work. I think Edwards will look better and better as time goes by too.

[bobbieinok]

48. what about Clark? he won OK in the primary

I heard him in person when he was in Tulsa and found him very impressive. IMO, much of the RW spin would have great difficulty with him; his biggest problems would possibly from some left democrats and that possibly b/c of his military background.

I remember during the primaries a conversation between a RW talk radio host and a caller. The caller wanted to know if Clark, an 'unpatriotic' democrat, had really been in the military and had really done anything brave. The host said that it did appear true that he had been in the military and had done brave things. And then they spent a long time 'discussing' how strange this was b/c everyone 'knows' all in the military are republican; if they aren't when then enter, they soon 'see the light.' Uuuuuuugh!!

[tomreedtoon]

49. Good point. Why is no one talking about Feingold and Clark?

Why is the assumption - by people here in DU and out there in the media monopoly - assuming that the only "serious" candidates are Gore, Kerry and Clinton?

These three have considerable money and punditry behind them - is it possible that there are some powerful people in the Democratic Party that want these three to be the only choices considered?

I get the feeling that Feingold, Clark and the other "also-rans" could only break out into the national consciousness if they said something to grab the attention. A signature issue. Something positive that addresses the needs and fears of Americans. And something unexpected.

I don't know what that kind of issue might be. Just a weird idea - "If I am elected, every family will be assured a well-built, comfortable, energy-efficient home, regardless of income level or employment." Yes, the idea is weird - but better than spending money on the war, and it would employ the housing industry instead of the military contractors. An idea in that style - certainly a better idea than the one I came up with - would get a candidate noticed, get some enthusiasm going, maybe attract people across the political spectrum.

[bobbieinok]

50. I like Feingold for the 'politician' and Clark for the security, an ideal

team

each one handles himself fabulously well against hostile interviewers......better than any of the other people mentioned

IMO, Gore or Kerry and of course Hillary start off with tons of anti-spin already out there..........spin machine could not get going quite so fast with Feingol/Clark/combination

[TheCentepedeShoes]

26. Hi, Sheila

I'm originally from "west of Tulsa." Dad and I were both born in Lincoln County - Dad in 1912, me in 1948. Dad hadn't lived there all those years in-between. He was in NM, TX, the Merchant Marine (NY, Africa, OZ, NZ). Dad died when I was 14. IIRC both he and grandpa (a farmer, born in 1880 in Arkansas) had great respect for FDR.

[Sheila Samples]

34. To Centepede Shoes

I'm not a native Okie -- just married one because he was the best durn shortstop I'd ever seen -- and here I still am...LOL

[japple]

27. Yup. Blind and brazen warriors in God's Very Own Army

says it all. Hi Sheila. Welcome to DU. I've enjoyed reading your posts on Smirking Chimp. I live in the land of carpet mills and chicken houses, GA. Most of the folks in this area vote against their own best interests every time because the GOP appeals to their racist and religious upbringing. Many don't even realize that they've been sold down the river by the likes of Sonny Perdue, Johnny Isaakson, and Saxby Chambliss, oh, and of course, GW.

[Sheila Samples]

35. To Japple

Thanks so much. You know, when I think of Georgia I remember having to run for the border with the kudzu in hot pursuit..LOL

The grip that racism and religious fervor has on people is not easily broken. Add to that we have no media in this nation that is willing to address the truth and you have boatloads of people going down the river.
ss

[hippywife]

30. Some of us are still out here fighting

the good fight, tho! Howdy from down in Okmulgee County! :hi:

[Sheila Samples]

36. To hippywife

Howdy, pardner! Let's roll!
ss

[Tom Joad]

31. Too bad the last preacher they heard weren't my friend Casy.

he sure taught me alot.

[Nicole]

43. Could your brush get any broader?

I sincerely doubt that it could.

But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong...

[mistertrickster]

45. I just found out today that "oklahoma" is a Choctaw word meaning

"(land for) the red people."

That would be funny if it weren't so sad . . .

[bobbieinok]

46. Tulsans get their RW religion at their RW talk radio KFAQ 1170am

Tulsa local Michael DelGiorno (M-F 5:30am to 9:00am) constantly talks about how he's a xtian and KNOWS homosexuality and abortion is immoral. Often his programs are 'come to Jesus and vote republican.'

The station constantly talks about how 'here you get the truth, not liberal media bias;' recently they've talked about how the station has 'built a wall to keep the liberals out.'

This station at 1170am is one of those who can be heard very far after dark.

'Strangely' KVOO, the station at this frequency for ca 60 years and a MAJOR country, bluegrass, country and western station, became a 24/7 RW talk radio show just before the 2002 election.

Tulsa already had a RW talk radio station with Rush and Hannity and a RW xtian station so we OBVIOUSLY needed another one. And then the new KFAQ began its campaign that it was more 'right' than KRMG at 740am and pushed KRMG to switch its short news bits from ABC to FOX. (KFAQ was lined up with FOX from the beginning: 'you get the truth at FOX at home, now you can get the truth at work and on the go from FOX at 1170am'.)

[Joey Liberal]

51. Checking in from Comanche County!

Oh boy, is this county LOADED with right wingers of the worst sort. They all watch Faux News, read the Lawton Constitution (with its Ann Coulter editorials) and attend Baptist churches where they hear about evil Liberals and are told to vote republican. There are, however, three DUers in this town that proudly display the DU bumper sticker on their vehicles, and I'm one of them.