Police killing of an emotionally disturbed teenager of 15. Any thoughts?

[SammyBlue]

Personally, I am disgusted with the whole thing. Our police are trained to view us all as criminals (from many friends who are current and ex officers) and apparently shoot first, shoot again and then when everyone is dead, decide to ask a question or two.

Freepers are coming out of the woodwork screaming how "this is what happens with you point a gun at an officer." I only have a few questions:

1: Did any officer attempt to ascertain what firearm the child had? Apparently, it was a pellet gun.

2: Did the officers understand that this child wanted to kill himself? Why were there no attempts to get the child to give up peaceful (understand, I am going on what the media is saying, and they are just reporting what the police are saying. I have yet to see anything in the way of contacting this child)?

3: Why didn't the school step in to stop the bullying of this child? Here is another instance where the negative effects of bullying take an extreme result! Haven't we learned from Columbine High School?

4: Can the officers honestly sleep well at night knowing they killed a suicidial child with what amounted to a toy gun? If they can, have we become completely desensitized to the loss of life?

5: Why didn't anyone see this coming? Why are we so full of regret after a tragedy when steps could have been taken to prevent the tragedy?

Personally, I am tired of trigger happy police. I am tired of my life meaning squat, my word meaning nothing and a police officer's word and life meaning so much more! I HATE COPS!!! ALL COPS!!! IF THERE ARE DUERS THAT A COPS, I apologize, but I hate everything you stand for when you put on that badge! If you ever used the phrases "I have my orders" or "I'm just following orders," that brown shirt you were (if you are a sheriff's officer) fits! Flame me all you want, but the more I read and research, the more I believe Ice T was right!

I fucking hate cops! All cops, good or bad! All cops are nothing more than state sponsored hitmen in a state sponsored street gang!

What makes the Chief of Police or the Sheriff different from Stanley "Tookie" Williams?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

1. I'm Not Sure I Have Seen Anything Yet To Indicate Police Didn't Follow

protocol. And though it is extremely disturbing and sad how it turned out, I see no reason to demonize the officers doing their duty.

And your last statement of hating all cops, good or bad, is quite a dangerous minded one in my opinion.

[SammyBlue]

6. If you don't like it, don't read it!

I absolutely loathe all law enforcement! I hate these people will all the bile, venom, piss and vinegar I can muster!

If you don't like my opinion, tough. Don't read it. There are alot of opinions on DU I don't like (many people's stances on Israel) but I keep that to myself because people are entitled.

Don't belittle my anger and disgust with a "dangerous minded one." So long as I do not advocate violence, I am free to say I hate law enforcement as often as I say I hate neo-Conservative fascist freeptards!

Will Rogers put it best: "I have never seen a problem so bad a police officer couldn't make worse."

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

8. No Way To Rationalize That, Sorry. That Level Of Broad Hatred For An

entire group of people is ALWAYS dangerous and uncondonable. And I'll read what I choose to read, and respond to what I choose to respond to, thank you very much.

These officers didn't do anything wrong, as it is exactly what they should do when someone who has already threatened others raises a gun at them. It may have turned out to be a pellet gun, but that is merely 20/20 hindsight.

Maybe, just maybe, the kid shouldn't have brought a weapon to school that he used to assault students, followed by an attempt to assault officers.

[SammyBlue]

12. And again

Call Mike Malloy and say that to him when he says "have I told you how much I hate these people" when he talks about Republicans and conservatives.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

15. I'm Not Talking bout Mike Malloy, I'm Talking About Your Direct Statements

of broad brush venomous hatred.

I feel for you that you have that level of prejudice towards such a large group.

[chancew]

22. Well...

You must be involved in law enforcement.

[SammyBlue]

27. I don't care. . .OPERATION is being ignored!

People like that make me sick to my stomach! Defend the killing of children is indefensible.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

35. We're Even Then. Those With Prejudiced Hatred Towards Masses Makes Me Sick

And way to spin that so wildly like a Fox Anchor.

It is not defending the killing of children.

A 15 yr old assaulted a school with a weapon, and then raised the weapon at officers. They acted appropriately given the situation, regardless of how amazingly sad the outcome was.

[BeTheChange]

62. Its against the rules to tell someone they are being ignored..

FYI. I wont alert.. but I too agree with OPERATIONMINDCRIME... broad brushes are never good and as much as I disagree with several laws, I do respect people who are willing to put their life on the line for what they believe.


We have far to many of those people in society hence why we are in the national jam we are in.

[blonndee]

64. It's not against the rules if you tell them and then actually do it, right

?

[BeTheChange]

69. That must be relatively new..

I know that it used to be that you werent supposed to tell someone you were putting them on ignore.

Thanks for drawing my attention to the update.

I liked the old rule better. Seems less childish. IMO

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

65. She PM'd Me With Quite A Respectful Mail, But Unfortunately She

doesn't accept PM's back. If I'm not on ignore and she can read this, I wanted to say I very much appreciated the explanation and thought it to be very well written. I have no ill will whatsoever outside the context of this thread and very much respect the effort to send me the PM to help me understand why you felt the way you did. I just wanted to let it be known I harbor no ill will whatsoever and that it's all good.

If she can't read this cause I'm on ignore, maybe someone else can copy it for me because when someone reaches out to me with an outstretched hand, I generally like them to know they have mine in return.

[okieinpain]

74. well no it's not. depends on what the children are doing. there are

kids that kill.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

32. Nope. But Thanks For Playing "How To Rush to Judgement Foolishly"

Actually, I've been abused several times by cops and harrassed by them like you wouldn't believe.

But a statement as broad as hating all cops, good or bad, blah blah blah, is indefensible, prejudiced, and of a dangerous mindset.

[okieinpain]

75. same here, I had one of my boys get in trouble resently and the cops

were pretty cool with him. I have no complaints. this time.

[Dorian Gray]

43. Just to add briefly,

it's been reported that the police tried to "negotiate" with the kid, so that he would put down his weapon.

This is a very sad case for all involved. I feel particlarly sad for the family of the child who was killed, though I don't blame the police. It seems as though they followed correct protocol. I could be very wrong, and we will see as the story is further played out in the media. But, my heart goes out to everyone who witnessed this, but particularly to the kid's parents.

[proud2BlibKansan]

77. The police also refused to let his dad talk to him

AND they apparently weren't listening when the dad told them it was a pellet gun.

So far, what I have read doesn't make the cops look too smart.

They murderered a troubled 15 year old kid. Just like the airport cops in Florida murdered a mentally ill man and the cops in NO murdered a mentally ill man. There was also an incident here in KC a few weeks ago where cops murdered a mentally ill man.

All in a month.

I can certainly understand why cops are hated.

[proud2BlibKansan]

76. Are you a cop?

[coldiggs]

2. Didnt that kid have a pelet gun?

[SW FL Dem]

3. It's Florida - Need I say anything more :(

[Cooley Hurd]

85. What the hell is going on down there, SWFD?

Has the Jeb Bush admin, though its conservative policies, turned the Sunshine State into a third world banana republic?:shrug:

[FlemingsGhost]

4. "Sumthin' must be done, 'bout vengence, a badge and a gun."

"How long? ... Not long! 'Cause what you reap, is what you sow."

-- Z. De la Rocha

[benburch]

5. It was a realistic pellet gun replica of a 9mm handgun.

I don't think they had many options.

[IndyOp]

9. I thought he was alone in a bathroom --

The police could've used gas to put him to sleep or used a taser on him...

[benburch]

55. Police have tear gas not sleep gas...

and I won't second guess them on this.

They didn't want to kill the kid. They wanted to disarm him and get him out of there. When he raised that weapon to a firing position, he took it out of their hands.

[SammyBlue]

59. Yeah, yeah, yeah. . .so they say

So, we now take their word for it? Cops lie to protect their own ass!

It's just a movie, but Denzel Washington say it best in Training Day: "It's not what you know, it's what you can prove."

I have a feeling this was an execution because the fascist brown shirts with badges heard "gun" and "school."

[BeTheChange]

63. Maybe they didnt want another Columbine..

Im sure every cop wakes up in the morning with a hardon to kill any innocent bystander they can.

Cops all become cops for all the cash and the power to kill whoever they want.

You need to stop watching so many movies.

Fuck.

[DBoon]

13. I thought those were illegal

I mean, "toy" guns are not supposed to resemble real firearms just for that reason.

Maybe not in Florida, though.

[jbnow]

80. Pellet or toy guns

have pink or red at the shooting end of it to identify it. The kid had painted it black so it looked like the real thing.

But what troubles me so far is that the boys brother AND the father tried to be allowed to talk to the boy, saying it wasn't a real gun and that they could make him give up, make it OK. They weren't allowed in.

If this is true...well that is really bad. The police inside may have never gotten word that his family was there or what they said. But Lord I can't imagine how I'd feel if I was the parent out there trying so hard to get in, knowing I could help and then it ended this way.

I had a 15 year old client who broke into a cabin. The police were called to investigate while he was there and he came out with a shotgun and even pointed it. He ignored many warnings to drop it. he eventually did.

They couldn't tell he was a kid, he was over 6 foot tall and they didn't know who he was. I don't know why they didn't shoot him, he was very lucky.

[Deja Q]

29. Agreed! Will they sit back and mull things through and pray they don't die

during the interim because the kid really was packin' heat and started shooting?

NO. They dare not take the risk:

1. They have their lives to consider.

2. They have the lives of EVERYONE IN THE VICINITY TO CONSIDER. (which often supercedes #1)

3. The needs of the many vs the needs of the one. (this harks back to #2)


I'm backing the cops on this case, everybody can flame me all they want. It's a tragic situation, no argument there! But blindly hating all cops does no good at all! I've already (other response in this thread) offered a suggestion as to what may help in these situations; I wish more who are frothing in abject anger at all cops would stop emoting and start thinking productively.

[Silverhair]

7. Your emotions are clear.

I HATE COPS!!! ALL COPS!!!

May we conclude that in a time of need, that you will NOT call for any LEO agency for help?

[SammyBlue]

10. Assume what you want, I have nothing but hatred for the badge

And I've never done anything wrong in my life. I view cops as nothing more than street gangs with official state sanction.

I view them as a necessary evil. Doesn't mean I won't use them when needed, but I can hate them all the same.

[Silverhair]

14. Isn't that hypocrisy? NT

[SammyBlue]

17. Nope, it's no hypocritical at all

It's the use of a necessary evil. Military Generals and fat-cats that send our young soldiers to die are a necessary evil to. Prisons are a necessary evil.

I hate cops. . .pure and simple. Will I call one if I need it? Yes, I will, because that is what the law tells me to do! The less I am around these scumbags the happier I tend to be, but it is not hypocritical, because the law has tied my hands. If I were allowed to settle my own problems, I wouldn't need the necessary evil. . .but we gave up that ability with the development of civilization.

[TheFriendlyAnarchist]

21. Anarchy FTW ; ) NT

[Gormy Cuss]

26. You hate your friends?

From your OP: "Our police are trained to view us all as criminals (from many friends who are current and ex officers) "

Is that what you mean? Or do you hate the institution of law enforcement in the way that it has evolved today?

[SammyBlue]

30. I hate their job! Off the job, the tell me all the nightmares of it

I ask them why they are still in it. . .they tell me because they want to make a difference. I tell them to become a teacher like me. But they feel that can do more as a cop.

My friends give me a little hope, but shit like this event in Florida strains my friendships because they all know how I feel about the killing of children!

[Gormy Cuss]

50. So you don't hate all cops.

They are trained to assume that anyone could be a criminal for their own self-protection and the unfortunate byproduct is we have adrenalin-stoked, armed people responding to even minor crimes.

We are living in a "zero-tolerance," fear-filled time and we are ripe for a totalitarian government. Repeatedly we hear people offer up their own liberty for the illusion of security these days. A kid pulls a gun, he should expect to get shot by a cop is the prevailing sentiment. No, I suggest that when it's a KID every avenue must be exhausted before you shoot.

It's hard to know whether a different attitude would have prevented deaths in the Florida case, but I for one would like to get back to close to the thinking "to serve and protect," rather than to "shoot first, ask questions later" mentality.

[SammyBlue]

And we have less than lethal firearms

Beanbags, tasers, etc. . .You could shoot to stop, not shoot to kill. This was someone's child we're talking about! CHILD being the key word!

Why didn't the officer in charge say "okay, let's use the non-lethal force to take the child down" instead of making him brain dead?

Are we so blood thirsty that we condone killing children?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

36. So Would You Be On Record As Saying That All The Cops Killed On 9-11

deserved it, or that you have no sympathy because you hated them all anyway?

[DELUSIONAL]

18. I agree with you SammyBlue

There is a specific temperament/personality that becomes a cop -- and if they don't have that temperament in the beginning, by hanging around these thugs and bullies they share the same values. And they cover for each other and in the end they can't tell good from bad.

[chancew]

11. Interesting

Well, his father tried telling the police that it was a pellet gun and he told them he could go inside the school and get him to come out but they didn't listen.

Chances are they probably don't have any sympathy at all.

[chancew]

16. Also...

They said he was bullied. Well where in the hell were the teachers and administrators? Oh, that's right. They probably laughed it off and didn't do anything about the bullying and then when a shooting happens, they blame it on video games when it's usually the jocks and other student causing the problems but they won't ever say anything because they are the stars of the school. At least that's what happened in my case and the admin. didn't do a damn thing about it.

At times I wanted to kill myself but I decided it wasn't worth it because chances are, I'll probably be more successful than those that bullied me.

[SammyBlue]

19. Thank you. . .someone who understands where I am coming from

those brown shirts shot, then asked a question. They knew this kid wanted to kill himself. They did him a favor.

Personally, I believe there is more to this than we are being told by the police and the media. But, we may never find out what truly happened. I don't trust the officers and what they say because all cops do is protect their own. The "brown code" or the "blue code" is dominates these state sponsored street thugs!

[G_j]

46. welcome chancew

good post, thanks for sharing that.
Our community needs to find better ways to solve problems.
I am so tired of all the meanness, from bullies, to talk show hosts, to police, to presidents, to message boards. Our society has become pretty damn cold hearted.

[Catherine Vincent]

38. That's what upsets me.

Why couldn't they let the father go in and talk him into turning himself in? The father was going to take responsibility of his life, so why not? Itchy trigger fingers?

[TheFriendlyAnarchist]

20. Well, while I may not follow the

"I HATE COPS" line, I certaintly don't trust the vast majority of them. While I'm certant many of them truly do have our best interests in mind, I wouldn't trust my life with them. The way they're trained to handle situations just doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy. Personally, I would prefer it if we made the 2nd amendment a little more viable, and I would just trust my own skill with a firearm for my self defense instead of calling someone who was just as likely to shoot me than the felon.

To those that say they're just following orders,THATS EXACTLY THE PROBLEM. They ARE just following orders, and orders come from a few executives who more likely than not don't have all the facts or even enough to make a reasonable descision.

I'm sure their are people here who are on the force and will call me out and detecting the faults in my statements, but this is how I feel aswell.

[chancew]

24. Exactly!

That's the exact same way I feel.

[Deja Q]

23. Police officers, good and bad ones, have to think of their lives too...

They don't have time to mull the situation and its consequences. How come people don't understand this? This isn't a "freeper" issue. This is reality. Split-second decisions don't allow the time TO think and it is not unfair to assume the worst.

Now if you have any ideas as to how to make it possible for them, in a charged situation, to sit back and nitpick every single option, feel free to tell us. That's far more productive than shouting "I fucking hate cops!" out of abject anger, most of it prejudicial by the sounds of things.

No, you don't point a gun at an officer. It's as simple as that. They WILL shoot. They've got too much riding on them, from their point of view and they've got a point of view too.

Why not become a cop? You might learn something.

If anything, get the cops to shoot the legs or somewhere less vital than the heart or head. That way the may-or-may-not-be-a-whacko goes down and he's still alive and then everybody can think of the situation through and through; the split-second problem averted. But that's not my judgment to make; maybe they've considered those options and for reasons neither of us can fathom, nixed the idea. I don't know. I don't think you do either. But the world is larger than our own viewpoints.

Forgive me, but there are good cops out there. And I'm sure, hypothetically, if you ran into a situation where you needed the police, your attitude would change in an attosecond.

[SammyBlue]

34. Why not become a cop? You might learn something.

As my best friend puts it, a former cop: "You think too much and are too smart for the job."

[mark11727]

39. Those paper targets don't have arms and legs...

...just heads and torsos, with big concentric circles around the heart.

I don't think they'll be aiming for the legs any time soon.

[SammyBlue]

25. And to point out, the Freepers on the Yahoo boards (I won't go to FR.com)

are all calling this kid a scumbag and are glad he's dead. Is this what we want these days? Cops kill a depressed, disturbed, suicidal kid and we're taking the side of the cops?

Police were called on a friend of mine who threatened suicide. Luckily, I go there before the cops did. I got into a huge argument with them when they wanted to arrest him. . .I demanded to see their psychological credentials as I phoned my friends attorney. They backed off after the attorney arrived.

Cops did the same thing to my brother who suffers from severe bipolar and acute schizophrenia. Again, they wanted to throw the kid in jail. This was 14 year old kid with mental problems.

This kid in FL was 15. . .same as my brother. Sorry, if this happened to my brother and come facsist scumbag cop shot my brother, that officer better sleep easy and wear kevlar all the time!

Why did no one contact this kid's family and try to use the family to calm the child down before it was fire at will?

And are we DUers really taking the side of Freepers and saying the cops did the right thing? What if it was your child? It's easy to say "cops did right" when it isn't, but assume it was your child for one second. If you can still say "the cops did right," then you don't deserve to be a parent, because you just gave license for the state's officially sponsored hitmen and street gang to kill your child!

[Catherine Vincent]

41. Amen!

[alarimer]

60. It's very sad

Seems very unnecessary. There have to be better ways but I am not sure what that may be. I too think that, on the part of at least some police, there is an us vs. them mindset that sees everyone as an enemy. I am pretty sure that, in the extreme unlikelihood of "revolution" or at least serious massive demonstrations, the police will NOT be on the side of the protestors. hell, look what happened at any of the WTO protests or look at the 60's. Enough said.

But this case is really sad; it sounds almost like suicide by cop. However, I think they might have been able to get the parents to talk to the kid, considering they knew he only had a pellet gun.

[MrSlayer]

28. This is almost too stupid to respond to.

Regardless of how you feel about the police they'll still risk their life to save yours as undeserving as you may be. For that alone they deserve respect.

If someone points a gun at the cops they're going to get shot, period. They don't have time to go looking into everyone's case history when a gun is pointed at them. Should they wait until someone shoots them before deciding whether the gun is real or not? Of course not.

You have a ridiculously unrealistic outlook on this situation.

[SammyBlue]

33. You comment is almost too stupid to respond it

Respect is a two way street. Cops don't have it for us, why the fuck should I have it for them?

[MrSlayer]

40. How does shooting someone aiming a gun at them translate into disrespect?

How have you been disrespected by this? Or anyone else? You make zero sense. Your argument is off the charts ridiculous.

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[file83]

79. Hey, 1 dimensional mindset man....

The SWAT team was informed that the kid holing up in the bathroom had some sort of weapon.

They chose to enter the bathroom with out employing two options readily available to them before hand.

They chose NOT to toss in a concussion grenade to disable the child before storming the bathroom.

They chose NOT to toss in tear gas and seal the room.

They instead, chose to storm the bathroom, knowing full well that their only option at that point was to eliminate the target if he was still able to aim his weapon (which wouldn't have been possible for him had SWAT used 1 or both of the above options.

So, yes, it is our duty as citizens to question authority in this incident, because they question us every day.

[Common Sense Party]

70. Law Enforcement Officers do a tremendous service in most

every community, and receive very little pay or thanks for it. Mostly, they receive hostile, juvenile "I hate pigs" attitude from people who have no clue what cops have to deal with on a daily basis.

I give every cop -- along with every person -- the benefit of the doubt and try to consider them innocent until they prove themselves guilty of being a jerk. Have I known jerk cops? One or two. I've known dozens that are great guys, very often Democrats and open-minded. These are just working-class guys doing a tough, dangerous job where many people are either out to get them or trying to get away with something.

Saying "I don't like cops" is tantamount to saying "I don't want our laws enforced by other human beings, because human beings aren't perfect."

I'll never understand the attitude of people like the original poster. Never.

[G_j]

31. doesn't sound right to me

if by doing their 'duty' multiple officers kill a suicidal kid alone in a bathroom who is armed with a pellet gun (& a parent told them it was) If this is protocol, then we must be living in the new dark ages. I can't be convinced there are not better ways to deal with these situations. Deadly force?
Well, the boy who was threatening suicide got his wish.

[Nutmegger]

37. Oh jeeezzz, I don't know

I will say that I know the technology exists to develop non-lethal weaponry...we need to invest in it.

Oh there is so much damn grey area! Damn this grey area!

[WLKjr]

42. Pellet Guns Kill People Too

If aimed properly.

[TheFriendlyAnarchist]

44. well, I havn't managed to kill anyone with my pellet gun yet

knock on wood :). Although it would take some pretty big odds to even injure someone who was wearing even a small amount of protection (condomns don't count)

[WLKjr]

49. a pointed pellet aimed at the eye.....

I would gaurantee that would kill if not make a person partially brain dead for the rest of thier life. Even more so if it was a Co2 powerd pellet pistol.

[TheFriendlyAnarchist]

53. Well, you have a point

But have you tried to aim a pellet gun at something the size of an eye from over 3 meters away? It's pretty damn hard. I can do it about once every 15 shots at that range, and that's just spraying rounds off. I highly doubt they were even THAT close to this kid,and a shot like that at over 10 meters is damn near impossible for the average person.

[Jack_DeLeon]

82. I havent killed anyone with my .45 yet either...

that doesnt mean that a .45 caliber bullet is non-leathal.

[SammyBlue]

47. So does a bic pen if you stab someone in the right place.

Your point?

[TheFriendlyAnarchist]

51. True

Thats why I always carry a sharp pen on me for self defense/opening things. Good for places where pocket knives aren't. Serious.

[WLKjr]

52. Not saying I am defending it but

there is only a split second to make a decision in a situation like that. Choices and consequences. Everyone makes a different decision and has a different outcome.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

54. Problem Is, They Had No Idea It Was A Pellet Gun Till After The Incident.

[bling bling]

48. Your post is ridiculous.

It deserves to be ignored and flushed off the front page asap. But because this is reality and I know better, I know that won't happen. Therefore, I'll post here only so that I can voice my dissent of your opinion. That's all.

[Marie26]

56. Seconded

While these particular police might have overreacted, it's unfair & simplistic to paint all police w/the same brush. Many police got into the business because they care about helping & protecting people, even people like you. They're the people running to a dangerous situation while everyone else is running away. While there are some abuses, when you say stuff like "I HATE ALL COPS!!!" it pretty much explodes any creditability your post might have.

[SammyBlue]

57. We do it to Freepers. . .I don't see the difference

And I don't care about creditability. It's called a rant and anger! Yes, I hate all cops, because even the good ones protect the bad ones behind the "blue code" and the "brown code."

[Marie26]

61. Yet you say you have friends who are cops,

and know they do it because they want to help people. How would they feel about you calling them "state-sponsored hitmen?" That right there undercuts your contention that all cops are somehow evil. I guess the biggest problem I have w/your post is the huge generalities you're making based on one specific example. Human beings are way too varied & different to make that kind of blanket statement - it's just stereotyping & labeling. I know you're just outraged over this incident, but I guess I just feel uncomfortable w/that amount of rage directed against police officers who are in such a difficult position everyday. Even you yourself say police are a "necessary evil" & would call the police yourself if you were in danger. It takes someone who's willing to put themselves in danger everyday to so that. They do deserve some respect, at least, for the difficult job they have. And I don't say that about Freepers.

[TheBaldyMan]

66. a total handgun ban including replicas n/t

[Nikki Stone 1]

67. Why couldn't cops use a Tranquilizer gun in these kinds of situations?

If you have a wild animal who gets into a residential area, you can shoot it with a tranquilizer gun, knock it out, and move it back to its natural habitat. Why not an emotionally disturbed teen? Shoot him with a tranquilizer gun, immediately, get him out of there and figure out the rest of the story later?

[sleipnir]

71. I'll let you take a shot with a dart-gun whilst being fired upon w/real...

bullets. That's what the police believed they were dealing with. An armed person who had expressed desires to kill himself and others.

What would happen if you missed with the tranq gun? You'd have to reload the damn thing. Meanwhile, the armed person has just shot you dead with the 9-15 bullets in his gun that reloads automatically.

Tranq guns are used on animals because they don't have the ability to fire back at you with over a dozen bullets.

It's really not at all feasible.

Sadly, this is just a case of the wrong people meeting each other at the wrong times. They weren't able to "talk him down" as is procedure, because he came into the field of vision of the officers and pointed a gun at them apparently ready to shoot and kill the officers. The police really had no choice at this point. Sadly, the situation didn't work out as anyone wanted.

[upi402]

68. folks trust cops, until they are shocked into new awareness

:spank:

[me b zola]

72. What I don't understand is...

...people commit suicide by cop every day. I would think that police departments across the country would be actively looking for non-leathal ways to deal with emotionally distraught people--especially children who are holed-up in a bathroom with a weapon that his parent has informed the police is a pellet gun. Tear gas anyone??

This child--YES CHILD--had holed himself up in a bathroom where he was no longer a danger to anyone but himself or an officer IF HE HAD TRIED TO LEAVE. This entire story is heartbreaking.

Our police departments need to stop feeling that it is them against the world, and begin to join the world that they live in. Yes, they have a tremendous responsibility to keep us safe, but that responsibility does not end at the feet of those they (or we) deem as the threats or "bad guys".

Two years ago, there were two horrible police shootings that should never have taken the lives of our citizens (in North Portland, OR). Neither incident could be explained away by the rational that they were protecting the lives of inocent civilians or even themselves. Both were truly cops taking the lives of those they deemed to be "bad" people with criminal records.

We live in a quasi police state and our police react to every potential danger as though it is imperative that it is the life of the suspect vs their life or the lives of innocent citizens. The truth is that our police departments should be protecting suspects with the same diligence as complaintants.

[LisaL]

73. I think what the kid did qualifies as suicide.

Police is not at fault for him wanting to kill himself.

[file83]

78. This is my two cents concerning this bullshit execution:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2042207&mesg_id=2042282

I say it all there.

[Jack_DeLeon]

81. I dont like cops...

They arent your friends, they aren there to help you, in almost all cases they dont stop crime they investigate it after the fact.

IMO alot of times the corrupt and power abusive ones do far more harm than the good ones do good.

That being said I dont think the SWAT team in this case did anything wrong.

The kid wanted to die, and he pointed what looks like a weapon at someone armed with a weapon. He got what what was coming to him.

If someone points something that I think is a weapon at me and I have a weapon of my own I would defend myself.

[Peter Frank]

83. We need good cops.

If you've ever threatened -- you'll know that cops are there to help you.

Bad cops are like bad doctors. Their buddies cover their asses -- and the institution suffers.

This particular case is pretty clear. The kid had a pellet gun which was originally pink or red in color. The shape was that of a deadly weapon if it were black. The red or pink pellet gun was painted black. It was pointed at the cops.

There are protocols that govern police actions. Deadly force is to be used only when certain circumstances arise -- this scenario seems to fit the bill.

I would pick a different example to expose genuine police brutality. There are countless documented cases of genuine abuse on the books.

[LiberalInGeorgia2005]

84. Most police don't have the time to stop and think....

when a realistic-looking gun is pointed at them.

[Peter Frank]

86. It might also have been a case of suicide by cop...

This might explain why the kid drew down on the police. ...Only a possible scenario.

[Moderator]

87. locking.....

This has become inflammatory.