One of them crazy foreigners got himself a star! Here's why :

[BelgianMadCow]

In 2000, I followed the sElection debacle with ever increasing disbelief.
On 9/11, I was shocked and mourned for America together with all Europeans.
During the runup to Iraq, I could not believe the Drumbeat for War on CNN, a channel which I had trusted up to that moment. The Bush*co rhetoric and the blatant disregard for international law were beyond puzzling and finally released the dormant political activist in me.

Then, stumbling from one political cartoon site to another, I happened across DU. And I found out :

- that contrary to popular belief over here, not all americans are stupid (which I knew already, but I had cognitive dissonance trying to rhyme US actions with not being moronic)
- that contrary to my own belief, no media are to be trusted
- that there exists a group of well-informed, likeminded americans no less, and that the site they frequent is a treasure trove for those who want to be ahead of the curve and think on their own
- that online discussion can be meaningful, provided you learn to discern the wheat from the chaff (?)

In the mean time, much has happened, and DU has changed to some extent. It still has at least the potential it used to, but a lot of it is waiting to be realised.

Now that I finally belong to the cardcarrying species, I decided my very FIRST payment with it should be a DU membership.

So that I can have some buddies in my list of course, and because a place that inspires HOPE when all seems lost, that provides perspective through the looking glass, and a counter to Reichwing rhetoric, is a worthy cause for my euros.

Here's to DU!

:toast: :headbang:

[OKNancy]

1. Proud to give you a "recommend"

:woohoo:

[SmokingJacket]

2. Yay!

(I wonder how many euros have been collected by DU?)

Thanks for being here! I hate it that the worldwide image of Americans is so negative -- many of us are quite nice, and even smart.

:toast:

[BelgianMadCow]

9. we are countering the dollar-euro oil bourse threat in our own small way

:-)

because in the end, all working class people all over the world are in the same boat.

[me b zola]

14. "...all working class people all over the world are in the same boat."

We really are :grouphug:

[Karenina]

36. Skinner knows what they look like and what they mean.

;-) I bet he can even read dem funny furrin' symbols printed on them. I'd even be willing to bet DU has received support in printed currencies from hither, thither and yon on this globe.

[NMDemDist2]

3. spread the word and K&N n/t

[BelgianMadCow]

6. belgium is a small country, but we do have the EU capital :-)

so far, I only got a couple colleagues hooked - Now they ask me "hey did you see, on DU..."

heheh

[NMDemDist2]

8. sweet! I'm so glad. we're not all pinheaded asswipes over here

promise :blush:

[byronius]

18. What? What are you trying to say? Freeper!!

Speak for yourself. Wait. Uhhhh...

I'm being a Moran.

[Sanity Claws]

19. I wonder if our new member understands

your reference to Freeper and Moran. Some DU newcomers who are native English-speakers don't get these references.
I hope he speaks up if he doesn't understand.

[BelgianMadCow]

22. where is the DU reference guide when you need it ?

I thin it existed at some time

The lingo can be difficult, BFEE took me the longest

A Moran is, well, a freeper right :-)

Their site sucks bigtime compared to DU, obvious to anyone who has a shred of neutrality, regardless of political leaning. I don't even find it funny to read, but did have to deal with a Moran coworker...I suspected him of being an O'Reilly fan (even though that's nearly impossible) - he came up with Abu Ghraib = bad apples. I said read Seymour Hersch on that. Oh well...

[NMDemDist2]

25. why right here! ask and you shall receive!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_oet&address=358x190

[BelgianMadCow]

38. Thank you! My new search capabilities need honing

and that's a good bookmark.

[Sanity Claws]

26. Moran is how a freeper misspelled moron.

There's a famous picture that gets reprinted over and over on this site of an idiot holding a sign in which he calls anti-war folks "morans" when he clearly meant morons.
We often make fun of the spelling errors made by the idiots who back the current regime.
Two other common ones here:
series - a freeper misspelling of serious
hugh - a freeper misspelling of huge.

[IndyOp]

29. Abu Ghraib wasn't due to bad apples. It is a bad barrel.

You might want to send this to your Moran friend:

Phil Zimbardo's Stanford Prison Experiment
<http://www.prisonexp.org/>

Researchers: It's Not Bad Apples, It's the Barrel
<http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/05/21/zimbarbo.access/>

Power turns good soldiers into 'bad apples'


And, what, in your opinion, would make DU better?

[BelgianMadCow]

44. "what would make DU better" - that got me thinking

but most obvious answers are not appropriate to be given by someone who hasn't used the full functionality of DU yet. So I will ponder this question a little longer...

What would make DU better? We would, if we acted more in unison and put our actions were our mouth is, as a first guess...

But I'm not even a member of the Activist Corps so I should shut up!

[IndyOp]

49. One of the most frustrating aspects of posting on an anonymous..

message board is that it is easy to assume that all that people do is post stuff online and that we should all be OUT THERE doing stuff.

I've read enough on DU, though, to understand that most people who post stuff online also DO stuff out there -- send letters to the editor, call Congress to pressure them to take action, talk with friends & family, donate $$$, work for non-profit agencies, work for political parties, work for candidates...

I really appreciate it when people post polls here at DU to discover what DUers are up to 'in the real world' - it helps me understand that for many at DU - this is the place where we get our information and inspiration and then we DO something about it.

:hi:

[tavalon]

65. Yup

We are the activists, for the most part.

[BelgianMadCow]

82. It is just hard from far away to see the activist core

butI did suspect it was there and am glad you confirm it.

One way for DU to get "better" in that regard is by remaining a focused, supporting community that can give more and more people the sense that THEY, THEMSELVES, can change things.
I would refer to the thread by H2O man about "internal locus of control".
We all need to be empowered to do what we can, anywhich way we can, and DU can be our resource and repository.
Another thing I really like is the antispinning and reframing that DU does. More!

[tavalon]

88. Yeah, we had an activist corp here to help us coordinate

but our fearless leaders sort of dropped the ball. But said fearless leaders do more than their fair share already, so no complaints here. At least in the two places I have lived, I see DUers far more often at meetings and protests than on DU itself.

[NoSheep]

55. And Hugh is Huge!

:D

[tavalon]

64. I actually enjoy the occasional poster

who explains to us that "moran" is actually spelled "moron". It isn't actually that poster who amuses me, but the 100 others who line up to explain the spelling and I especially like that someone always posts the famous freeper picture (which, while I have not checked yet, I am almost sure will be on this thread, somewhere!).

[Jackpine Radical]

75. The Moran pic is in the Demopedia, which is linked somewhere

on this thread.

Edited to add:
Ah yes--here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_oet&address=358x190

[corkhead]

23. And the world's best beer I might add...

[tanyev]

4. Thanks for being here.

Please, please, keep telling people you know that many of us are horrified by what has happened to our country.

[BelgianMadCow]

17. WILCO, and it's needed too, as I had to find out

our press is hardly better than yours. When an admin talking point airs, like Bush*s surprise visit to Iraq, they immediately run with it. Meaningful facts such as the Libby indictment or Rove's demise get hardly a peep and no context whatsoever. Makes me wonder how free our media are...
To say the least they too cut on foreign reporters and are unsufficiently critical of wire services' transmissions.

Hence, BE the media

[Karenca]

5. THANK YOU! ....

And here's to you :toast: Thanks for being here.

Nominated:)

[Sanity Claws]

7. You're really BelgianMadBull, right?

Either way, welcome aboard.
We're horrified at what's happening. The polls show that most Americans think we're on the wrong track. The media is not free and the only way to get the info out is by the internet.
BTW, your English is excellent. I wish I could say the same about my French or Flemish.

[BelgianMadCow]

13. ummm... yes you're right of course, but Mad Bull's disease doesn't exist

so when I started heaping rant upon rant on my unsuspecting family members, they likened me to the the mad cows that were in the news at the time...

Plus, at the time I was living in a village that had WAY more cows than people :-) Cows was my son's first word actually.

You already know some of us speak flemish - impressed here!
and thanks for the compliment, I often find better descriptive words in english than in dutch...:shrug:

[unschooler]

10. Thanks! Spread the word! Thinkers of the world unite!

:headbang:

[Ghost Dog]

31. "Thinkers of the world unite!"

...now that's a line I like.

Greetings from Catalonia :hi:

[unschooler]

47. Buenos dias, Ghost Dog.

Or do they still speak Spanish in Catalonia?

[Ghost Dog]

79. Pues, sí (I certainly do),

although the Catalan language is gaining in strength, mostly because most education is now conducted in Catalan. I (mostly) understand but do not speak much of it. There has been and is still a lot of immigration into Catalonia from a lot of places (and me, although I've been around here these last twenty years or more, I'm still a Brit)...

Castillian Spanish and Catalan are co-official languages in Catalonia. The new 'statute' or 'articles of association' requires all residents in Catalonia to "know" both languages. To give you an idea how this works, my 'wife', who's mother tongue is Catalan but who was never taught it in Franco's schools and would still now prefer not to have to read or write it, recently presented documents, through a lawyer, in Castillian Spanish, to a Barcelona court in order to initiate some proceedings. The court has just replied, accepting her case and opening proceedings, but in Catalan. It's worth noting that Castillian Spanish is (or a least can be), like latin, wonderfully clear and precise when applied to legalities. Catalan, on the other hand is usually acknowledged to be somewhat less so, in practice. But most Catalan government and administration is now conducted in Catalan, which is, after all, the native language of these beautiful hills, plains, Mediterranean coast and islands that are collectively known as "països catalans" - Catalan Lands - (see also here) since, well, since before Roman times.

[unschooler]

89. Ah. I guess I should say "cheerio."

I spent several months as a college exchange student living with a family in Finchley 20+ years ago. I really enjoyed British people and culture, although I can understand why you might prefer the weather there in Catalonia. Seems a lot of Brits I knew spent every holiday they could in Spain.

[Call Me Wesley]

11. Thanks for your post!

:toast: Here's to you, from

[babylonsister]

12. You were 'one of us' w/o a star, BelgianMadCow, but glad you

cosidered DU a worthy cause. This place is a huge comfort to us all at times, and a wealth of information! :hug:

[BelgianMadCow]

20. I know babylonsister. I joined (as freeminder) at a time when DU

was still very welcoming to low count posters. Well, most of 'em :evilgrin:
That's still the case but inevitably and with all the trolling and Invented Wedge Issues, people get less trusting. I do think it's a capacity we should no loose.

Hope and comfort when you think you're alone. That's exactly right. Mike Malloy gave me the same feeling when I found him (trhough DU). Just to know you're not alone...

I suspect, if all disgruntled americans knew the degree in which others feel the same, a lot more would get done. Which is why media is so key.

[Thickasabrick]

15. Great post ! n/t

[MissWaverly]

16. Thanks, glad we have had a chance to talk with you

I am glad some realize that George does not speak for the majority of the American people

[newyawker99]

21. WOOOOHOOOOO!! Your star looks good on ya!

:thumbsup:


:toast:

[BelgianMadCow]

27. You, yes YOU

were the first who replied to a post of mine, and your welcome is still part of the newbie welcome feeling - keep it up !

:thumbsup:

[newyawker99]

90. Thanks BMC!

:hi:

[elehhhhna]

24. welcome belgian and send chocolate.

[BelgianMadCow]

34. You have, at a time, rescued us from fascism, and brought nylons,

chewing gum and cigarettes.

We'll bring beer and chocolate. Boxes, crates or containers?

on edit : we will demand to be greeted with flowers though! There's no such thing as a free lunch!!!

[elehhhhna]

42. Q: "Boxes, crates or containers?" A: yes.

lol

[elehhhhna]

43. p.s. we need your help with that rescuing from fascism thing soon, 'kay?

[unschooler]

48. If present trends continue, we'll need containers!

Here in the pacific northwest (Oregon, Washington), the beer is pretty good, but American chocolate is inexcusable. And we can't even blame the politicians for it. ;-)

[tavalon]

66. Forget the chocolate

return the earlier favor and rescue us from fascism. I never thought my country could sink so low. Now, granted, I've never worn the rose colored glasses but man, are we ever doing badly now!

[Mandate My Ass]

28. Add BelgianMadCow

to the list of Belgian treasures: Off the top of my head, 1) ale, 2) chocolate, 3) frites, 4) people with cool accents for us unilingual Americans. ;-)

[BelgianMadCow]

32. That is a pretty good list you've got there :-)

I actually was gonna post it upthread as an addition to beer. Very few people know we have got The Best Frites in the world - you must have had some. With mayonaise, perhaps?

From your list, it's obvious most belgians get a little soft around the edges. We call it "living like a Bourgondiër" (lke the kings of Burgundy), sounds better.

Our accent is funny indeed : most people will not bother with the "th" and say "the turd time" :-)

The advantage of being ruled by practically everybody in Europe at one time or another is, we speak all their languages!

But I have to take care this doesn't become a belgian commercial subthread :P

[Mandate My Ass]

33. Frites with mayo

*swoon*

I have a lovely young co-worker from Belgium. We have the most humorous conversations about culture shock. She's the best and so are you. :toast:

[hootinholler]

70. Um, what's a Frite?

Or is that Frites? I'm a dumb country boy here. BTW, my daughter loves those thick waffles.

-Hoot

[bigbrother05]

73. Fries, but thick ones more like steak fries

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

30. And to you as well!

You have been a welcome addition to DU and deserving of another rec!

:toast:

[Cleita]

35. Welcome to the celestial DU.

:toast:

[ralps]

37. Cool & Great Post!!

:hi: :loveya: :hug: :pals: :woohoo:

[Cha]

39. That's so neat to get your

perspective. I've often imagined what Europeans, who care about the World, must think of the big "super power", with a man whose known by "chimpsaresmarter", occupying the throne?

Together we are all gonna figure this out. :toast:

[Gregorian]

40. Wow that accurately describes my story also.

Except I live in Americaland.

Funny how bush managed to activate the dormant political activist in us. His criminals really are uniters after all. Everything they do works against them.

Anyways, I thank you for caring. Especially when living in such a cool place. I'm in a photography forum with a lot of Belgians. The place is so photogenic. I look forward to sneaking out of this country at my earliest convenience. Meanwhile, we have each other. :) Right on.

[BelgianMadCow]

41. I am signing off for the night (1:30 AM here), but

with a strengthened sense of belonging, and not without extending a heartfelt thanks and :grouphug: to all who replied.

May our discussion give confidence to some new DUers to come out of the woodwork!

[suffragette]

46. Welcome, Bienvenue, Welkom

Glad to have you and your perspective here.
Your brand new, shiny star suits you well.
And now, I'm craving frites with mayo - yummy :-)

[karlrschneider]

45. Today, we are all Belgians!

:D
:toast:

(Are you still up, it's midnight over there...haha)

[Tigress DEM]

50. How wonderful of you to join US in this way!

I remember when I went online to "http://www.sorryeverybody.com" and saw the kind words from people around the world who understood that it was a dictatorship run amok and not the people of America that signed on for this war... I was so relieved.

I was able to move out of deep shame over how WE had let the world down and get into the actions of doing something about changing it.

But to have someone come over and grab a star... you are quite a bit of all right as the Brits say.


You have probably seen this pic..



http://www.motherearth.org/bushwanted

[OnionPatch]

51. Thanks and welcome

It's so good to see Europeans are concerned about our malfunctioning government. It's very scary being an American on the left sometimes these days. It sometimes feels like the weight of the world is on our shoulders in a way. I mean, what our country does affects the world and there are only we American liberals, or more precisely, our votes, against the evil, right-wing of our country. Now they've even found ways to steal those votes. So, yes, we need all the help we can get (hint, hint...spread the word...SOS!!) and thank you very much for coming here and being part of us. Oh and, lastly: We LOVE Europeans! :hug: I traveled through your very lovely country by rail and enjoyed it immensely.

[Blue_Tires]

52. ttt n/t

[Canuckistanian]

54. Sorry, I gotta ask...

What does "ttt" mean?

[Blue_Tires]

74. to the top

just kicking the thread

[Canuckistanian]

53. You know what stood out for me?

"a lot of it is waiting to be realised."

To me, that's the power of DU. Not to detract from the past victories, but there is definite potential.

Much more potential.

To DU! :toast:

K&R.

[lectrobyte]

56. Thank you for the kind words. I've only visited Belgium once, but

dinner & drinks are on me the next time I visit.

[Fovea]

57. You rock!

Thanks for caring about us.

[Mythsaje]

58. Cheering DU and DUers is a guaranteed way to get lotsa recommendations...

Not that it's a bad thing, really. :D

Glad to have you here.

[saigon68]

59. Enchanté

[Vidar]

60. Thank you for a wonderful post. Living briefly in Europe 25 years

ago helped change me from a Republican to a socialist. In the last five years I've largely lost hope in America but can still find some grounds for optimism in Europe & South America. Thank you again.

[Major Hogwash]

61. It is so great to read a comment from a friendly European here.

It was so hard to explain to all my on-line European friends why what was happening here in the States in 2002 was so damned unexplainable.

No matter how hard I tried to explain America's descent into the abyss, there would be some redneck, All-American, flag waver get in my way on those forums and act like a jackass.

I knew the end of decorum for that forum had come when that forum's webmaster started chiding anyone who disagreed with Bush for invading Iraq.

Most of the Europeans took the hint and, one by one, they left his forum.

So, it is great to read any comments from Europeans here, because it is so hard for us to realize ourselves just how far we have sank in the last 6 years.
It is still very hard to explain how it all came to pass.

May gawd forgive us.

[democrank]

62. Glad you`re here.

Always interesting to learn how much we have in common with people living in other parts of the world.

[Pharaoh]

63. Way To Go Belgium!

K&R

[hlthe2b]

67. Good for you, my Belgian friend..

And as insane as things have looked to you from afar, just imagine how it has been to us stuck in the middle of it and powerless to stop this rolling train of lunatics, despite our hard work and best efforts.

We need the help and support of like-minded folks throughout the world. :toast: to you!

[Divernan]

68. Welcome and PLEASE help educate us about the EU

Just returned from a continuing legal ed. class in Dublin - subject was an overview of law of the EU. Of course our US media barely cover any news about developments in the EU, and the articles give no background or insight or history - I was overwhelmed with information overload, just trying to understand the intricacies of its organization (the European Council vs. the Council of the EU vs. the European Parliament vs. the European Commission - not to mention the Committee of the Regions and the Economic and Social Committee, the Court of Justice, the Court of Auditors, the Central Bank and the Investment Bank) as background to understand what has been accomplished to date and the significance of the proposed Constitutional Treaty and its future given the failed referendums in the Netherlands and France. There are some really exciting developments but I have not posted to discuss them here on DU because it would take massive amounts of background info for readers to understand. What would be great would be if our DU members who live in the EU would get into some discussions among each other which the rest of us could learn from.

For example, what ARE the borders of Europe? How can Turkey be considered for membership when only a small geographical portion of it is in Europe and the huge land mass and population is in Asia?
How can proportional representation be included in calculating number of delegates to various EU institutions when Turkey's population is greater than most EU member states combined? Will the EU, under the proposed constitution, designating a foreign minister, start flexing its muscles in opposition to the like of Bush/Cheney? Will it form strong ties with the emerging superpowers of India and China? Will the Euro supplant the dollar in the world economy?

Over a hundred years ago, Victor Hugo said of Europe: "A day will come when all the nations of this continent, without losing their distinct qualities or their glorious individuality, will fuse together in a higher unity and form the European brotherhood. A day will come when there will be no other battlefields than those of the mind - open marketplaces for ideas. A day will come when bullets and bombs will be replaced by votes." To me, the EU seems a very noble undertaking - analagous to the American Revolution - and I envy you being a part of it.

[Vinnie From Indy]

69. Thanks!

Got me thinking about some of the exquisite Belgian Ales! If you ever get over here, let's have a pint!

[Hissyspit]

71. "In Flanders fields..."

Welcome.

[huskerlaw]

72. Welcome to the star club

BelgianMadCow!

One of my best friends is Belgian and she always gets to hear me rant about BushCo...and she's always in complete agreement. Like you, she was happy to learn that not all Americans are BushBot idiots.

In fact, she's coming to visit in about a week...her first trip to the US, and next summer I will be visiting your fine country.

:hi:

[BelgianMadCow]

80. If you come to belgium next summer

and need a tour in Bruges or a place to sleep, PM me.

:hi:

[huskerlaw]

84. Thanks!

I'll be staying in Ghent with a friend. Which, actually now that I look at a map, isn't that far from you!

I've got the lodging covered, but perhaps we can have a mini Belgium-DU meetup! ;)

[BelgianMadCow]

85. Ghent is 15 mins by car. And has an awful lot of pubs as you prolly know

A mini-meetup would be great. When will you be around?
There are likely other DUers nearby, expats and the like.

[huskerlaw]

87. I'm not exactly sure yet...

not until next summer (2007), probably in July.

I've never been to Belgium (or Europe at all, for that matter), so I'm really excited!

As we get closer, I'll post a thread or 2 to see if any Europeans are interested in a meetup. And if you don't mind, I'll add you to my buddy list...and then send you a PM when I know what my itinerary will be.

[BelgianMadCow]

91. please do

and let me know!

[CottonBear]

76. Here's to you BelgianMadCow!

You're the best! Thank you for your kind words. We Democrats over here in the states really need and appreciate your support!
:toast:

I loved visiting Belgium. It is a beautiful country. I wish that I could return one day! :) :hi:

[heartofthesiskiyou]

77. K & R

and welcome home

[sofa king]

78. You're welcome to come visit anytime.

The accomodations here at the Democratic White House are poor, but you're welcome to stay.

More importantly, do you think that you could put up forty or fifty thousand DUers after the '08 election? Thanks in advance.

[BelgianMadCow]

81. put up with 40 K DUers after '08? Well...

Quite a while ago, I have extented an offer to all DUers who visit belgium that they can always get a tour of Bruges from me, or a place to sleep if you aren't too picky.

I've got a small outhouse in the 800 square meter garden and one free room for now, so 40 K may be a bit much. I could fit some though, and the offer still stands.

I'm not sure europe is a better place than the US if the BFEE isn't broken by '08 though...

This in response to you and to all the other warm welcomes!

[Maestro]

83. Welcome

Please continue to tell all over there in Europe that not all Americans are complete dolts! :hi:

[savemefromdumbya]

86. 1 million Rwandans were massacred no one would be shocked

9/11 was bad but you know atrocities happen every day on a larg. In Europe we were conditioned to follow what the USA said and did. Yes things are getting worse here.