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Richard Clarke: NYC Subway Cyanide Plot Probably "made up."

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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 01:02 PM
Original message
Richard Clarke: NYC Subway Cyanide Plot Probably "made up."
Edited on Mon Jun-19-06 01:32 PM by leveymg
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/6/19/10418/7989

SNIP

Clarke doubted the specificity of the report, as well as the players who were cited in the threat. Now, this is the same man who warned Rice and Bush about Al Qaeda back in 2001, and frankly, I don't see much reason for him to be lying about much, when he has been proven to be accurate in his assessments (other than my disagreement on bag searches on the subways) and he certainly has the experience and the country's best interests in mind when he speaks.

So, when he said the following, I knew that it would get buried in the hoopla of "see how the great Dear Leader thwarted another terror threat" and "you can never forget how much certain people want to kill us because of our freedoms":

"There's reason to be skeptical," said ABC News consultant Richard Clarke, who is the former chief of White House counterterrorism. "Just because something is labeled in an intelligence report does not mean every word it is true."

He says the information describing the plot would have been just one of the hundreds of threats that would have been collected in 2003.

Furthermore, the specificity of the report is suspect, he said.

"Whenever you get reports that are this specific, they are usually made up," he said.

Clarke noted the report detailed a particular time period for the attack, and that Osama bin Laden's top deputy himself weighed in.

Clarke said Zawihiri and bin Laden are too isolated to have that kind of direct control over a plot inside the United States. He also thinks the terrorists would have carried out the attack if the plot was as advanced as Suskind reported.

"Frankly if there was a team in the United States that was ready to do this, they would have done it," Clarke said.


****

To add my two cents worth here. There are good reasons why we didn't hear about this from BushCo earlier. Number 1, the attack plot was called off before U.S. intelligence is alleged to have even learned about it -- essentially, it never really existed, so it hardly shows daring-do and decisive action by Dubya in ordering the perpetrators tracked down. The author of the book, Ron Suskind, does try to spin the story to make the Boy King sound heroic.

Secondly, the gas generator idea was tried in the mid-1990s by a well-financed, technically sophisticated messianic cult in Japan without a great deal of success. Explosives in a backpack are more effective - that's why bombs remain the terrorist's weapon of choice against soft targets, such as subway cars and cafes.

Third, there's "Ali", the al-Qaeda informant who Suskind tells us about. It's not explained what happened to the CIA mole inside of AQ, but one can assume he's not there anymore. The only surprise in Suskind's account is the admission that BushCo and the spooks were lying to us all along when they claimed we had no human sources inside AQ. Now, they tell us there were. Why let the cat out of the bag now? -- if that much is true, that's the real mystery here. Or, did Bush-Cheney out him, too?



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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
1. I had that "Yeah, right" feeling, myself
But for no other reason than I don't trust the administration and the timing felt suspicious. Nice to read his reasons for doubt.
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marmar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Agreed...
It's sad that you've got to be skeptical of everything that comes from your government when it concerns national security, but with this crew, you've just got to.
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #1
19. Add me to that list.
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Maestro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
2. I would tend to agree with that.
Heck the first time I heard about this was when Suskind was publicizing his new book.
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
4. I believe what I hear from Clarke WAY before I believe this admin!
Richard knows what he's talking about, and I can tell you, when I first heard this report, I had suspicions about it's validity.

Sorry, Shrub, if you ever had any credibility, it's completely GONE NOW!
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butterfly77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
5. I thought about that because Fox news
shows it every time I click by to check on the propaganda. I am wondering why is it so important to keep reporting this when it happened 3years ago. So I believe this is being played to frighten back the base and make them believe that bush thwarted some terrorists and they also want to keep up the supposed momentum that they believe they have from the last couple of weeks.
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wwcsmd Donating Member (49 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #5
23. On Fox Local News
I don't watch Fox local news, but the story was on the bumper for the news at the end of their Sunday evening programming lineup. I said, "New York Subway again? Yeah right." (Well, I "Yeah right" most every "terrorist threat" these days.) The bumper did not mention that it was 3 years ago (I don't think it did anyway, as I didn't know that until I read this thread.)

Scare, scare, scare...
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MorningGlow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
6. I knew it, I knew it
As soon as I heard the news I did a "yeah right" also. Dang, even if this admin ever really did foil a terrorist plot (not bloody likely), I'd never believe it.
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SmokingJacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
7. The idea that it's made up barely raises an eyebrow anymore.
Kind of amazing, when you think about what we've gotten used to.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
8. Very glad to hear Richard Clarke said this.
It's a shame this is the kind of "government" we've got to live with for a while. God help us if Bush finds a way to trick us into another term, or worse, by creating a crisis which permits martial law.



The great author, Suskind. Thanks a lot, a-hole.
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
9. I would love for KO to interview Clarke about this
Edited on Mon Jun-19-06 01:25 PM by me b zola
KO has done a wonderful job at highlighting the administration's propensity for playing the "terror" card for political purposes.
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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
10. That's not what Sen. Roberts thinks :-)
Edited on Mon Jun-19-06 01:32 PM by sabra
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #10
20. Roberts is using this as continued justification for domestic spying:
From sabra's post (thanks!):

http://www.wpherald.com/storyview.php?StoryID=20060619-...

New York terror plot said to justify wiretaps

WASHINGTON -- The Chairman of the U.S. Senate intelligence committee said Sunday that reports of a planned cyanide gas attack on the New York subway system showed the need for continued warrantless surveillance of suspected terrorists.
...

Two U.S. officials confirmed the main elements of the story to United Press International Sunday. But in public, officials cautiously declined to comment in detail.

Sen. Pat Roberts, R-Kan., chairman of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, told CNN only that "the intelligence committee is briefed on these kinds of threats. I would simply say that we've had a briefing."

But Roberts said the report showed the need for the administration's program of warrantless surveillance of electronic communications from terror suspects into and out of the United States.
...

"It points up, once again, the value of the terrorist surveillance program, the NSA program that's been in the news so much," Roberts told CNN. "We are able to detect and deter and stop such attacks."
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catmandu57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
11. Hopefully, everyone had a yeah right moment
even the densest amongst us could smell this out.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
12. I don't think this plot existed. It's very convenient to claim it did,
though.
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DarthDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
13. Ayup

The "story" by Suskind makes absolutely no sense. First, as pointed out, it hardly makes the Evil Empire look heroic when - - supposedly - - the only thing that stopped it was, well, AQ calling it off of their own accord.

Second, the account of AQ cancelling the attack, for utterly unspecified reasons, is totally illogical. If they really hit such a homerun by learning how to create this device, why did they cancel the plot? Moreover - - and this is what really gets me - - what explains why they haven't deployed it somewhere in the three years since this attack was stopped?

This report is utter BS. Clarke's dismissal of it raises that to a metaphysical certainty.
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mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
14. Of course it's made up
"Al Qaeda" 's demand in 1996 was to get infidels (us) out of Saudi Arabia. Rumsfeld quietly gave in to "terrorist" demands and did that in 2003. So any threats from 'al qaeda" are bogus, IMO. In fact, I don't really think there ever was such a thing, not the way it's been presented,anyway.
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. This is an attempt to justify the Illegal Wiretaps.
Susskind probably got a payment in his offshore account from the Regime.
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
15. It sounded to me like the plot for that "Sleeper Cell"
miniseries that ran a while back. Have these guys been watching too much TV?
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KurtNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
16. Another fact against it...
Over the past 2 or 3 years the MTA (they run our subway system) has been eliminating windows that OPEN. They have reconfigured older windows thay used to be openable by passengers and have made them inoperable. And on the newer trains, the windows don't open at all. So for fresh air on the trains you are totally reliant on the electrically powered ventillation system.

Contrast that to the installation of "panic bar" exits (exits which provide an alternative to the floor to ceiling turnstyle exits which are slow) throughout the subway system and it further reinforces the idea that the MTA is dealing with what are perceived as real threats while giving no priority to gas attack scenarios.
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Finder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
18. Not made up...but wasn't al qaeda...

Cyanide, arsenal stirs domestic terror fear
Friday, January 30, 2004 Posted: 3:59 PM EST (2059 GMT)


A raid in April found nearly two pounds of a cyanide compound and other chemicals that could create enough poisonous gas to kill everyone inside a space as large as a big-chain bookstore or a small-town civic center.

Authorities also discovered nearly half a million rounds of ammunition, more than 60 pipe bombs, machine guns, silencers and remote-controlled bombs disguised as briefcases, plus pamphlets on how to make chemical weapons, and anti-Semitic, anti-black and anti-government books.

The findings have led to one of the most extensive domestic-terrorism investigations since the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing.

...more
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/Southwest/01/30/cyanide.probe.ap/
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. Yet, that one got barely any coverage at the time.
Edited on Mon Jun-19-06 03:37 PM by leveymg
From the same CNN article:

"I have no doubt whatsoever that had these men been affiliated with al Qaeda, we would have heard more," said Daniel Levitas, author of the book "The Terrorist Next Door: The Militia Movement and the Radical Right." "There is something of a blind spot within the Justice Department in Washington, D.C., when it comes to the violent potential of America's own homegrown version of al Qaeda."

The report almost made this seem like a joke at the time. For this crap, and nebulous post-9/11 plots by AQ that never were, we have to give up the Fourth Amendment?

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quiet.american Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
21. NY'ers can expect much more of this shite between now and the elections
We will wake up every morning to some hyper-perky morning show "newscaster" chirping FEAR, TERROR, ATTACKS, FEAR, TERROR, ATTACKS!
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