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GORE WON IN 2000! GORE WON IN 2000! GORE WON IN 2000!

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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 06:18 PM
Original message
GORE WON IN 2000! GORE WON IN 2000! GORE WON IN 2000!
Edited on Sun Jun-18-06 06:42 PM by IndyOp
I am dismayed to encounter - at least once every couple of weeks - people who believe the corporate media lies and omissions regarding AL GORE'S WIN IN 2000.

Yes, I want Gore to run in 2008.

But more importantly, I just want the truth to be known! I want us all to have the self-discipline to speak the truth even if it differs from the common beliefs.

Al Gore won, hence, Al Gore is a winner.



Gore's Victory


By Robert Parry -- November 12, 2001
<http://www.consortiumnews.com/2001/111201a.html>

So Al Gore was the choice of Florida’s voters -- whether one counts hanging chads or dimpled chads. That was the core finding of the eight news organizations that conducted a review of disputed Florida ballots. By any chad measure, Gore won.

Gore won even if one doesn’t count the 15,000-25,000 votes that USA Today estimated Gore lost because of illegally designed “butterfly ballots,” or the hundreds of predominantly African-American voters who were falsely identified by the state as felons and turned away from the polls.

Gore won even if there’s no adjustment for George W. Bush’s windfall of about 290 votes from improperly counted military absentee ballots where lax standards were applied to Republican counties and strict standards to Democratic ones, a violation of fairness reported earlier by the Washington Post and the New York Times.

Put differently, George W. Bush was not the choice of Florida’s voters anymore than he was the choice of the American people who cast a half million more ballots for Gore than Bush nationwide.


Media Matters: Barone repeated 2000 Florida recount falsehood
<http://mediamatters.org/items/200502220004>

U.S. News & World Report senior writer and principal coauthor of The Almanac of American Politics Michael Barone repeated the false assertion that former Vice President Al Gore would have lost the 2000 presidential election under any recount scenario.

From Barone's February 21 nationally syndicated column:

In other words, Gore sought new counts only in areas where he was likely to gain votes and would not take the risk of a statewide hand count, where those gains might be offset by others for George W. Bush.

We know now that, thanks to the news media consortium that recounted ballots in every Florida county, recounting under any method and any criterion they tested would not have overturned Bush's exceedingly thin plurality.


In fact, the 2001 news media consortium study of the disputed ballots in the 2000 Florida recount found that there were at least four recount scenarios under which Gore would have won the state of Florida. A November 12, 2001, Washington Post article reported on the findings of the study: "If Gore had found a way to trigger a statewide recount of all disputed ballots, or if the courts had required it, the result likely would have been different. An examination of uncounted ballots throughout Florida found enough where voter intent was clear to give Gore the narrowest of margins."

The news media consortium that sponsored the study, which was conducted by the University of Chicago's National Opinion Research Center, included the Associated Press, The New York Times, and CNN, as well as The Wall Street Journal, The Washington Post Company, and the Tribune Company (which owns the Chicago Tribune, the Orlando Sentinel, and the South Florida Sun-Sentinel).

Other conservatives who have repeated this false claim include Wall Street Journal op-ed columnist and author John Fund, FOX News host Bill O'Reilly, syndicated radio host Glenn Beck, and The Wall Street Journal editorial page.


NORC Florida Ballots Project - Read the original report!
http://www.norc.uchicago.edu/fl/index.asp


By the way, John Kerry won. Hence, John Kerry is winner.



We, of the Democratic Party, come from a long line of winners. :kick: :kick: :kick:

We need to do MUCH better at inhibiting, detecting, and fighting back against election theft, now. Eh? (Election theft via voter suppression, old-fashioned ballot box stuffing, and computer fraud...)

Remarks of Congresswoman Jan Schakowsky (D-IL)
TAKE BACK AMERICA CONFERENCE - June 14, 2006

To win in 2006, we need to...

First, we must not allow the Republicans to steal the election-again.

1) Stealing: I apologize for not taking seriously enough the allegations that the 2004 election was stolen. After reading Bobby Kennedy's article in Rolling Stone, "Was the 2004 Election Stolen?", I am convinced that the only answer is yes.
He documents how 357,000 Ohio voters, the vast majority Democrats, "were prevented from casting ballots or did not have their votes counted…more than enough to shift the results." Watch for the DCCC to take some very public steps in the near future to ward off a repeat performance. In the meantime, there needs to be a citizens' effort starting now to assess the machines, the ballots, the registration process within each and every election jurisdiction in each and every swing district and state, in the case of Senate races. Where the situation looks perilous, go to the media, raise a stink, demand changes. This is a great project for the many of you who have been diligently working to guarantee fair and accurate elections.

2) GOTV: "Intensity equals turnout." ....The Republicans learned about grassroots organizing from us and learned it well. We must count on their willingness and capacity to drag out their voters.... But we know how to do mobilization. It's grassroots, door-to-door campaigns that enable us to beat them on the ground. Air strikes - radio and TV, just get you so far; the personal contact drives home the point. As great as job as we did in 2004, we need to do it more and better.

3) PERSUASION: In 2004, the Republicans left no constituency untouched.... For the first time, they won the majority of Catholics. Why did we lose Catholics? They had a Catholic strategy, and we didn't.

4) We have to travel. If you live in a safe Democratic district like mine, you need to consider every candidate in every winnable district as our candidate - at least adopt one or more of those candidates as your own.

5) Finally, we all need to resist, as hard as I know it is at times, griping about the Democrats, one, because it's takes time away from the real work of defeating the Republicans, and two because it's counterproductive, demoralizing the very people we need to be engaged and enthusiastic.

http://www.bradblog.com/?p=2963


...Speaking of computer fraud have you seen the report about voting machine company documents that suggest that computer fraud was used to subtract 16,000 votes from Gore in FLA 2000 at a critical moment during the vote counting?

Chins Up. Fists Up. Ready to Kick? :kick: :kick: :kick:

On edit: Add stuff, change emphasis, same message. :hi:
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 06:19 PM
Response to Original message
1. Thank you. This needs to be repeated until everyone acknowledges the truth
of it.
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Mike Nelson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 06:23 PM
Response to Original message
2. The media often reports that Gore was the loser in 2000....
...and they explain why and crap... trouble is, that he didn't lose... and their thesis/point always tries to explain why we love war and hate gays or something. It's so 1984.
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Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
3. Absolutely.
He won Florida, he won the popular vote, he won. The SCOTUS picked the president, not the people. Talk about yer activist judges!

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Richard D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #3
63. I tell people
that * won by one vote.
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Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #63
65. And that now...
She regrets that vote.

:eyes:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
4. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. Welcome to DU, Perfectlady!
:hi:

The consortium spent months -- it was painstaking work -- they counted and calculated using ALL possible standards and the result was that if we used the simplest, most fair standard:

The candidate with the most votes in the state wins - then Al Gore won.

:kick:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. Source? Link?
Look at the Parry story in the original post -- the Republicans tried to get military votes from Republican districts counted even though they did not meet requirements and tried to get the same military votes from Democratic districts dumped.

The story about the 'military vote' is rarely told in full.

Also, keep in mind what the Rethugs did to "likely Democratic Party" Iraqi soldiers in 2004 --

African-American Voters Scrubbed by Secret GOP Hit List
by Greg Palast

The Republican National Committee has a special offer for African-American soldiers: Go to Baghdad, lose your vote.

A confidential campaign directed by GOP party chiefs in October 2004 sought to challenge the ballots of tens of thousands of voters in the last presidential election, virtually all of them cast by residents of Black-majority precincts.

Files from the secret vote-blocking campaign were obtained by BBC Television Newsnight, London. They were attached to emails accidentally sent by Republican operatives to a non-party website.

One group of voters wrongly identified by the Republicans as registering to vote from false addresses: servicemen and women sent overseas.

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_greg_pal_060616_african_american_vot.htm
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. I strongly disagree.
I post a ton of information about election fraud on a regular basis - here is my journal: http://journals.democraticunderground.com/IndyOp

Here is the Election Reform Forum
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=203

The issue, is, of course incredibly important. I strongly encourage you and everyone else to take time to educate yourself!

It doesn't matter how great our ideas and candidates are if, when we go to the polls, some of us are excluded (voter suppression) and others of us don't have our votes recorded or counted correctly.

Not all Dem loses are due to election fraud. In recent years - there have been many important loses.

Good luck! :hi:
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AuntiBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #26
39. Thank you, IndyOp!
For all your dedication & hard work keeping this front and center.

:kick:
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bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #8
18. Welcome to DU!
Sounds like you're just learning about this.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines01/1022-03.htm
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. "There is a sensitivity over the legitimacy of this president."
:eyes:

Thanks for the link!
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gaspee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #4
24. Boy
You're all over today, aren't you?

OK, you're right. Georgie porgie is the E-lected Preznit. Not the appointment of a corrupt cabal of senior citizens voting their own best interests.

War is peace.
Slavery is freedom.
Bush got elected twice.
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
5. I believe this story would have taken off like a bullet
Edited on Sun Jun-18-06 06:33 PM by Uncle Joe
and shaken the nation to it's core if 9/11 had not occurred about the time the MSM came out with the truth. You are absolutely correct IndyOp Al Gore did win in 2000, and now the challenge is up to us, are we going to back a winner when we have one or are we too afraid to admit we have one?

Kicked and recommended!

:kick:
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Jeanette in FL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. The report came out on the same day as the attack.
Hmmmm. I have always wondered.
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Yes, wasn't that a hell of a coincidence? n/t
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reprehensor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
6. Sure as hell did.
http://www.lumpen.com/coup2k/

"It was the Republicans who first bandied the term "coup d'etat" to describe the 2000 presidential election. Since then, many have turned the tables and labeled Bush's victory a coup. But how much of this is merely political rhetoric?

John Dee writes that much of what happened matches historical examples of CIA election rigging and overthrows...and a respected coup "manual" authored by a one-time advisor to President Reagan."
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otohara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 06:31 PM
Response to Original message
7. The Media Was Sick of 8 Years of Clinton
they wanted new blood in the White House, not to mention, the corporate media is chomping at the bit for more deregulation of FCC ownership rules. The new head guy at the FCC is again going down that road. (right before mid-term elections) Media knows who their friends are on this matter and it isn't the Democrats
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Jeanette in FL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 06:31 PM
Response to Original message
9. Link TV has been running shows all weekend about this
They are having their fundraiser for the network and every show has been about election fraud and Democracy. Greg Palast's reports etc. It has been excellent. DirectTV station 375, worth watching.

In 2000 I lived in Palm Beach County and saw for myself the shenanigans on election day and I voted early in the day, but didn't realize what was happening to us as a people at the time. I am so glad and proud that I was out there protesting the election, writing letters to the editors and speaking to anyone who would listen to me at the time. I lost friends and relatives over this whole issue, but it is what it is.

I will never forget what happened to us that day and I will never get over it, no matter how long I live.
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acmejack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #9
33. I think many of shared those unpleasant experiences.
Of alienating friends and kin. I certainly have lost my closest friends since childhood and I am in my fifties. our political differences were more of a joking matter until then. I certainly agree with your final sentence, it is God's own truth.
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eowyn_of_rohan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 06:17 AM
Response to Reply #9
51. Remember Carol Roberts?
By Joel Engelhardt, Palm Beach Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, November 15, 2000

Despite warnings not to do it, the Palm Beach County canvassing board decided once again Tuesday to recount every ballot in the presidential race by hand, starting at 7 a.m. today.

The arduous count was to have begun Tuesday morning, but an opinion from state elections officials spooked the board, causing it to send home 50 county workers poised to sift through ballots. At the end of a wasted day, the board cast aside the advice of its own lawyer and the stern warning from state election officials that they had no right to begin a hand count.

"(By going ahead) what happens?" canvassing board member Carol Roberts demanded to know. "Do we go to jail? Because I'm willing to go to jail."

The crowd outside went wild when she said that--What a hero she was to me...
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existentialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
10. Re-elect President Gore
Edited on Sun Jun-18-06 06:36 PM by wicasa
Or is that "Re-elect President Kerry"?

Actually, my first choice right now is Wesley Clark, with Gore perhaps second choice, and Kerry somewhere in the top ten in a wide open field. But I do think that both "Re-elect President Gore" or "Re-elect President Kerry" have a certain bite to them in a perhaps effective way.
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eowyn_of_rohan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-20-06 06:46 AM
Response to Reply #10
77. I suddenly want Al Gore in a big way
(For President, that is)

I have a feeling he really could win.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
12. "It's the mediawhores stupid!"
And our country isn't going to be anything but dragged through the gutter with bushsnipes until we get rid of them!

But, how ya gonna do that? One way is mass protests at cnn, Atlanta. Not watching all their mediawhore nusak..not buying their sponsors, hit them in their nasty bottom line.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
14. One step further: Kerry won in 2004! (and no, don't reelect HIM to
Edited on Sun Jun-18-06 06:38 PM by robbedvoter
anything as he still refuses to talk about it)
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
17. I think most non-Republicans feel Gore was robbed
Edited on Sun Jun-18-06 06:42 PM by AtomicKitten
by the 2000 judicial coup d'etat.

The fact that Gore received over 500,000 more votes than Tex-Mess is well-known and remembered.

And I believe more than half of America would love a do-over to get that election right.


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MelissaB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 07:07 PM
Response to Original message
21. Sing it, IndyOp!
:hi:

:kick: :kick: :kick:
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
23. Tell me about it! Do people not read when they register at websites?
I mean, this website was FOUNDED on the proven fact that b*s* stole the 2000 election, yet I still see even longtime DUers from time to time not recognize that fact!

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MelissaB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. Well, I think many people weren't in the news loop then, myself included.
I see this as a chance to educate people. I've learned a lot since I've been here.

Here's one of the many things I didn't know. Look at all the republican operatives in the challenge of the 2000 election.




I wish I could find their names and connections again quickly.
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MelissaB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. Found it!
Miami 'Riot' Squad: Where Are They Now?

By Al Kamen
Monday, January 24, 2005; Page A13

As we begin the second Bush administration, let's take a moment to reflect upon one of the most historic episodes of the 2000 battle for the White House -- the now-legendary "Brooks Brothers Riot" at the Miami-Dade County polling headquarters.

This was when dozens of "local protesters," actually mostly Republican House aides from Washington, chanted "Stop the fraud!" and "Let us in!" when the local election board tried to move the re-counting from an open conference room to a smaller space.

With help from their GOP colleagues and others, we identified some of these Republican heroes of yore in a photo of the event.

Some of those pictured have gone on to other things, including stints at the White House. For example, Matt Schlapp, No. 6, a former House aide and then a Bush campaign aide, has risen to be White House political director. Garry Malphrus, No. 2 in the photo, a former staff director of the Senate Judiciary subcommittee on criminal justice, is now deputy director of the White House Domestic Policy Council. And Rory Cooper, No. 3, who was at the National Republican Congressional Committee, later worked at the White House Homeland Security Council and was seen last week working for the Presidential Inaugural Committee.



Here's what some of the others went on to do:

No. 1. Tom Pyle, who had worked for Rep. Tom DeLay (R-Tex.), went private sector a few months later, getting a job as director of federal affairs for Koch Industries.

No. 7. Roger Morse, another House aide, moved on to the law and lobbying firm Preston Gates Ellis & Rouvelas Meeds. "I was also privileged to lead a team of Republicans to Florida to help in the recount fight," he told a legal trade magazine in a 2003 interview.

No. 8. Duane Gibson, an aide on the House Resources Committee, was a solo lobbyist and formerly with the Greenberg Traurig lobby operation. He is now with the Livingston Group as a consultant.

No. 9. Chuck Royal was and still is a legislative assistant to Sen. Jim DeMint (R-S.C.), a former House member.

No. 10. Layna McConkey Peltier, who had been a Senate and House aide and was at Steelman Health Strategies during the effort, is now at Capital Health Group.

(We couldn't find No. 4, Kevin Smith, a former GOP House aide who later worked with Voter.com, or No. 5, Steven Brophy, a former GOP Senate aide and then at consulting firm KPMG. If you know what they are doing these days, please e-mail shackelford@washpost.comso we can update our records.)

Sources say the "rioters" proudly note their participation on résumés and in interviews. But while the original hardy band of demonstrators numbered barely a couple of dozen, the numbers apparently have grown with the legend.

More: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A31074-2005Jan23.html
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Lefty48197 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 07:19 PM
Response to Original message
25. Why did the Republicans claim these votes were ambiguous?





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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. Wow. Incredible. Source?
:wow:
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Ani Yun Wiya Donating Member (639 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #31
69. Gore did indeed win.
How he "lost" is still not well understood or even discussed.

Look at this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=49624&mesg_id=49624&page=#51782

I would submit that the actual fraud was entirely overlooked.
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Lefty48197 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-20-06 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #31
78. Source: "Jews for Buchanan"
"Jews for Buchanan" by John Nichols. A wonderful book that came out soon after the stolen election. Be very careful reading it, it will make your blood boil.
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ThoughtCriminal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 05:44 AM
Response to Reply #25
50. Two things I would love to see
1. Where these came from
2. Examples of similar ballots for Bush/Cheney that were accepted or rejected.

This is why Republicans hate a paper trail
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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 07:29 PM
Response to Original message
28. And we need to get over our collective timidity and inferiority
complex!

There is nothing wrong with the Democratic message as far as the people are concerned. Big Business doesn't like it most of the time--or is afraid to trust us.

Democrats are the centrists, and Republicans are the wackos.

Democrats are strong and trustworthy. Pass it on.
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 07:36 PM
Response to Original message
29. To reiterate: RE-ELECT PRESIDENT GORE!!!
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #29
34. Now, don't be shy, BL... What was it you wanted to tell us?
Was it:

:patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot:

RE-ELECT PRESIDENT GORE!!!


:patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot:

:hi:
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #34
43. You read my mind!!!!
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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sofa king Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #34
64. I want it to happen just for the bumper sticker.
We need it to happen just for our nation's future.
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WarNoMore Donating Member (530 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
32. I first want to thank you for all you've done to raise awareness.
I remember anxiously awaiting the results for the NORC. At that time, (before I "graduated" to DU) I was hanging mostly at Table Talk, at Salon. There were some posters there that did phenomenal research on this.


I wasn't working at the time, and believe me, I saw *a lot* on TV. I watched almost nonstop. You could see what was happening in regards to the military vote; the judge that was going to allow a statewide recount, the day Gore said he was agreeable to a statewide recount. I saw Ashley Banfield try like the dickens to destroy a butterfly ballot and she couldn't. Most of all, I saw the *full* Miami riot, not just the short clip the news stations showed.

I knew the election was rigged, and I will never get over it.
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #32
36. Wow - I knew the election was rigged, and I will never get over it.
I did not know that 2000 was rigged. I didn't know about the media consortium recount until 2003 -- when a friend had to repeat herself 3 times before I parsed the fact that Gore's win had appeared in the NYT (in paragraph 17 of an article with a misleading title).

"I knew the election was rigged, and I will never get over it." --> is how I feel about 2004, except for the fact that I am *going* to get over it by working my a** off to get the truth out.

As Al himself has said - there is a step between denial and despair that can prevent the despair:

Action!

:hug:
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eowyn_of_rohan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 06:26 AM
Response to Reply #36
52. Then most of us didn't know about electronic election fraud
Florida problem aside, I remember I couldn't get over what a strange and ominous thing it seemed that the country was EVENLY DIVIDED, RIGHT DOWN THE MIDDLE...Ominous indeed.
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T Roosevelt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 07:47 PM
Response to Original message
35. And correct me if I'm wrong, but...
In other words, Gore sought new counts only in areas where he was likely to gain votes and would not take the risk of a statewide hand count, where those gains might be offset by others for George W. Bush.

Gore only sought new counts in those areas he was legally entitled to - he did not pick and choose, because legally he couldn't.
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. I did not know that - I though Gore had made the mistake of
picking and chosing when he should have asked for the whole state to be recounted. But your version sounds reasonable, given WarNoMore's statement upthread that at some point a judge had okayed a statewide recount and Gore was fine with that call.

If you have a link to a discussion of this, I would be interested in seeing it.

:hi:
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eowyn_of_rohan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 06:45 AM
Response to Reply #35
54. It was his legal right to ask for recounts in as many counties
as he wanted, as I recall. He didn't seek a state-wide recount because it wasn't necessary. He believed at the time that enough votes would be found for him to win in those counties for which he sought recounts. A statewide recount would have been unnecessary to prove his win plus would have been overwhelmingly time consuming and expensive, and would have made him a target for even more GOP spin and criticism.
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 08:40 PM
Response to Original message
38. Thank you thank you thank you IndyOp.
Thank you.
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rosesaylavee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 09:06 PM
Response to Original message
40. This needs to be repeated and repeated
and repeated and repeated until everyone gets it. Hard to argue with facts and thanks for the links.

Great job and thanks for posting.


K & R
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Hun Joro Donating Member (511 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 10:03 PM
Response to Original message
41. Error: You've already recommended that thread.
Damn! If I could recommend this twenty times I would!
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 10:07 PM
Response to Original message
42. Al Gore was robbed! We were robbed! Kerry won and Kerry was robbed!
We were robbed in '00, in '02 and in '04! Are we going to allow it to happen in '06? I hope not!
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
44. Another kick just for the hell of it.
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dweller Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #44
45. there are times i get down and feel like giving up
and find thread like this.

:kick:

NGU!

:patriot:

REC!

dp
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 01:52 AM
Response to Original message
46. THANK YOU! Can we please stop handwringing over
how to WIN and start planning how to STOP THE STEALING of our victories?



:kick:
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rosesaylavee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #46
58. Can we vote on that? :)
I would say that there are an amazing number of posts here on DU of late wondering what platforms will work for which DEMs for us to win the Congress and Senate this fall. Normally, say pre-2000, that would be enough but we need to resolve the way we run the elections as the machines that count the votes have made the overall system suspect and therefore invalid.

The voting machines are the key. We need to uncover, fully with documentation, how the machines were hacked before and work to prevent that happening again. And,the information we have uncovered so far needs to be repeated and repeated and repeated until everyone gets it. Repugs have to know that this is an issue that effects them too...

We need some intrepid reporters in the MSM - American, not BBC - who have the balls to stand up and thoroughly investigate this. Des Moines Register, Chicago Tribune, Washington Post - how about it?

End rant.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 02:33 AM
Response to Original message
47. He's a winner and a patriot. I support him for 2008. DRAFT Gore n/t
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Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 02:34 AM
Response to Original message
48. Gore was not robbed -- Gore did not "win" or "lose"
The election was not his to "win or lose." An election is not a contest or competition, but rather a survey to determine the consent of the governed.

For his part, Gore handed that consent of the governed, unearned, over to the election thieves in silent complicity.

He need only have opened a mouth.

And when he finally speaks?!?

Does he, like many Democrats, think the election was stolen?

Gore pauses a long time and stares into the middle distance. “There may come a time when I speak on that,” Gore says, “but it’s not now; I need more time to frame it carefully if I do.” Gore sighs. “In our system, there’s no intermediate step between a definitive Supreme Court decision and violent revolution.”


He fails the American People yet again. The truth need not be "framed carefully." And there is most definitely an "intermediate step." Justice Breyer laid out specific instructions in his dissent to the treasonous edict of the Felonious Five.

January 6th, 2001 was the "intermediate step." The day when duty required that the unlawful electors from Florida be objected to and invalidated. This was the day the contract known as the US Constitution was put into breach.

True, Gore was not alone in his dereliction of duty. And it took us 4 years and a second stolen election to get even a single US Senator, Barbara Boxer of California, to take up the sworn duty and make an independent judgment; this time on Ohio's unlawful electors -- and express regret for her failure 4 years earlier.

But it was Gore who held the fate of the nation in his hands on Dec. 12th, 2000. It was he who had garnered the consent of the governed. Who bore the solemn duty of asserting the sovereignty of the (once great) American People. Who had only to say "No," to start the necessary national debate of Democracy vs. Stalinism**.

It was the American People who lost, who were robbed, who were "taken out of the loop" by both Anti-American election thieves and those, like Gore, who failed to stand up to them.

That was the seminal event -- from which all the subsequent horrors flowed. That's what made us "fair game" for 9/11. US public opinion could no longer be looked to as the only consistent powerful force for good on the planet.

There is no "worse" catastrophe. Not 9-11, not lying into war, not torture, not even genocide. This was willful violaton of THE ONLY moral principle on which this once-great nation, and democracy itself, ever rests: that gov't power can only be derived from the consent of the governed.

Without that, you can slap any label on it you want: fascism, authoritarianism, totalitarianism, monarchism, theocracy, oligarchy, whatever. They're all "true enough" in that they're all less than what our children deserve to inherit. Unless and until we deal with the reality of the Stolen Elections (I and II) they'll continue to eat through our society like an acid.

We need to formally recognize this regime as never-elected, never-legitimate. To reverse any and all of their actions possible. To call to account (impeach) any and all participants. And when warranted, bind them over for international prosecution.

This is THE ONLY way to recover our national self-respect; to redeem our national soul; to get the American People "off the hook" for this crime spree that they did not participate in nor authorize.

It is our only moral, patriotic option.

--
** "Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything." -- Josef Stalin (since echoed by bush, baker, rove, harris, blackwell, feeney, scalia, et. al.)


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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 07:56 AM
Response to Reply #48
56. I don't know enough about what was happening behind the scenes
in early January 2001 -- if Gore had asked a Senator to stand with a member of the Congressional Black Caucus to refuse Florida's electoral votes, then what would have happened? Debate, dismissal of the debate (as happened in Jan 2005)?

Your point - we must always do the right thing - because it is the right thing and not whether it will 'work' for us or not - it spot on and...

He had been destroyed -- money put into the pockets of journalists who led the corporate media in destroying him during the campaign -- destroyed. Would the truth have come out or would he have been made unable to govern because the people were not ready to understand what had happened?

In the end, the mob rules - the people get the government they want - and the people wanted Bush - Even liberals who thought what happened to Gore was terrible, but who listened to the corporate media lies and who believe the polite compliance is better than resisting.

The only thing that could have changed the outcome of that election theft was The People - and the people were too busy with the holidays, and tired of hearing about the election, and disgusted with politics, and angry at Gore for 'losing'...

I don't know. I really don't.

The People were closer to ready to RISE UP and claim the Democratic Party Victory in 2004 and then Kerry conceded in less than 24 hours.

All, that We The People can do, is take what we know, do everything we can to secure elections, and PUSH all of our candidates to what is right in future.
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Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #56
74. I don't know "everything" either -- I do know the People needed leadership
...and they didn't get it. Not only from Gore, but from nearly all Dem members of the DC/Euphemedia Analstocracy.

And beyond that, the failied leadership didn't "get it" the first time around, so it was repeated in 2004.

Certainly The People bear a responsibility similar to the "Good Germans" prior to WWII, but that does not excuse those who were in a position to object and failed to do so -- let alone the treasonous election thieves themselves.

My point is not really that "we must always do the right thing," but rather that we need to come to terms with the reality that we didn't. And that that can only begin among ourselves.

Unless and until we get right with the truth, the wound cannot heal. It remains open and in fact continues to grow.

--
(digression)

As to your hypothetical about "...what would have happened?" I can only speculate. But what should, and may well would, have happened had Gore descsended the step of the (formerly) supreme court with the edict and said, "This is wrong. I refuse to concede." was that a national debate would have occurred. One that in the circumstances was necessary to preserve our democracy.

I can tell you off the record (FWIW) that I know of 2 Rep Senators (other than Jeffords) who opposed the theft privately. Would the small number of Reps necessary have ultimately put the People over their party? I'd like to think, not just hope, that would have happened.

There really was no doubt about "the result." The extrapolation of uncounted ballots in FL demonstrated the preference for Gore by tens of thousands. It would have come down to a battle between "vote count" (belief - only via willful self-delusion) versus known, demonstrable "will of the people" (of FL and thus the nation); with the (only-politically relevant) popular vote as a kicker.

There was no middle ground for theives to hide in. Their pre-coup plan (including an "in the can" ad campaign) to tout the popular vote as a trump fizzled when they failed to steal enough of it nationwide. Any rational "compromise" like splitting or dismissing the electoral votes from FL as "a non-conclusive tie" would have ended their caper. Their FL lege end-run was quashed early by Luntz's focus groups.

They may well have been in a position to threaten some sort of violence, as Gore is now implying. But that should have been irrelevant.

What we can be fairly certain about was that more people would have become engaged in the struggle. There was nearly a month until the Jan 6th (non-deadline btw) certification to make a case for asserting the People's known will. Some amount of headway would have easily been achieved.

I thought, and said at the time, that the chances of success were close to 50-50. I've seen nothing since then to change that opinion.

--
www.january6th.org



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eowyn_of_rohan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #48
57. "The truth need not be framed carefully "? Don't forget what happened
Edited on Mon Jun-19-06 08:12 AM by eowyn_of_rohan
...EVERY STEP of the way, when Al Gore (and many others) tried to stand up for the truth, back in 2000. Here are just two examples of Al trying to do the right thing and the slanderous spin that followed:

1) From his requests for recounts in Florida...
http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/showflorida2000.php?fileid=gore11-28
Gore Calls for Another Recount
Tuesday, November 28, 2000

VICE PRESIDENT GORE: Hello, again.
As I described last night, since Election Day, we have had a single fundamental goal: to ensure a complete count of all of the votes cast in Florida. Not recount after recount, as some have charged, but a single full and accurate count.

That is a purpose that extends far beyond the borders of Florida, because we know that what is done in Florida sends a message as to how we will govern ourselves as Americans.

The American people have shown great patience in these extraordinary days. They understand the importance of getting this election right.

That is why we have asked the Florida courts to recognize what observers of this process know to be true; that is, that the state of Florida has certified a vote count that is neither complete nor accurate.

I understand that this process needs to be completed in a way that is expeditious, as well as fair. We cannot jeopardize an orderly transition of power to the next administration, nor need we do so.

Two weeks ago, I proposed to forego any legal challenge if Governor Bush would let a complete and accurate count go forward, either in the counties where it was proposed or in the full state of Florida.

He rejected that proposal and instead became the first to file lawsuits. And now, two weeks later, thousands of votes still have not been counted.

...Once we have that full and accurate count of the ballots cast, then we will know who our next president is and our country can move forward.


Now here is an example of the typical spin from the opposition (from FR):

"This recounting business is leading to an anarchy of the election process. Never again will voters be able to go into the voting booth with the confidence that they have voted for their man or woman. If one side doesn't like the results all they have to do is call for recount after recount, turn the process over to a handful of party hacks, and let them divine you original intent. If they don’t like those results tied them up in the courts and let Judges decided who the victors are. That is not Democracy at work. It is not the will of the people. It is the will of the party hacks."

2) Gore Legal Team Prepares to Take Miami-Dade County to Court; Countdown Continues to Florida Recount Deadline
November 26, 2000
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0011/26/sun.09.html
Lawyers for the Gore campaign plan to take Miami-Dade County to court tomorrow. Miami-Dade dropped its hand recount in midstream. (ILLEGALLY) That was bad news for the vice president.
FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Gene, we are awaiting the beginning of a rally here in Miami outside of the building where earlier this week the canvassing board voted three to zero to stop the manual recount.

(GOP SPIN) Yesterday, Canvassing Board Election Supervisor David Leahy told CNN that the manual recount was stopped because of logistics and time, not because of Republican protesters who demonstrated loudly against the canvassing board, a charge some Democrats have leveled.

Today, Democrats responded to Leahy's comments that logistics prevented the recount from going forward.

REP. BOB MENENDEZ (D)NEW JERSEY: Imagine if the government at any level would say, "Well, we simply can't respond because of logistics." Imagine if a police department said, "We couldn't respond because of logistics." Imagine if the Congress would shut down the government because of logistics. No one in this country would tolerate logistics being the basis of which their fundamental right would be denied.

Remember when TRUTH supporters realized and began proclaiming we were in the midst of a a COUP D'ETAT?. I heard it spoken aloud first on TV by recount supporters and protesters. Within a day after that was broadcast, James Baker held a press conference in which he stole the term and accused the Gore team of trying to stage a coup d'etat! What a nightmare it was when that became a GOP rallying cry. Jack Kemp claimed the Florida Supreme Court was pulling a "judicial coup d'etat" after they ruled that the votes should be counted. MAnn Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, and other neocons also used the term against Gore...


From the time he receded his concession at on election night, in Nashville, until bu$h was Scalia-ed in to office, Al Gore, his attorneys, and supporters of the truth did everything they could, and LOOK WHERE IT GOT THEM (and us)!

(edited for typo)
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Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #57
71. I know what happened -- he stopped trying
That's what got us where we are.

He seems now to be implying that he started doing something else. Avoiding some non-specific impending "violence."

I can't surmise what violent scenario he may have been imagining, but like his actions prior to Dec. 12, it is irrelevant.

Even if the bloodless coup were about to turn bloody, his duty was to stand against it -- not stand aside.

--
www.january6th.org
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eowyn_of_rohan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #71
72. Point taken... n/t
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BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 04:21 AM
Response to Original message
49. Hee. This can't be K & R'd enough. Read it and weep, liars.
At this point, people who deny the reality of election fraud are on par with Holocaust deniers to me.
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 06:27 AM
Response to Original message
53. Always bears repeating.
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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 07:16 AM
Response to Original message
55. Florida resident here and voter for 2000 and 2004
bears repeating that Gore is and will be the President.

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ms liberty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 08:18 AM
Response to Original message
59. KAY AND ARRR!!! This needs repeating - thanks IndyOp! n/t
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 08:44 AM
Response to Original message
60. And this story was to be made public on..............September 11th, 2001
For those :tinfoilhat: people..
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eowyn_of_rohan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #60
70. Can you tell me where you found that?
I can't find a reference to that date (not that I doubt it for a minute. :tinfoilhat:)
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Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-20-06 03:14 AM
Response to Reply #70
75. I think I can help you out
What was scheduled for 9-11 was actually the launch of democrats.com's "Fall Offensive" over the stolen election -- including a drive to impeach the Felonious Five.

Here's the full story from Bob Fertik about what was planned and of course called off.

Now as to "hat material of choice" when guaging the "synchronicity" of the two events, that's a matter of personal taste. I would add though that the "big DC press event" was part of a much larger context.

The truth has a force of its own. The web was at maximum-buzz and books were being published (Bugliosi, Dershowitz, Toobin, etc...) that were moving public opinion dramatically. In polls of "Did bush win fair and square?," the "NO" answer began in Dec. 00 in the teens and by late summer of 01 was nearing, if not tipping, a majority of (former) Americans.

There was real reason for optimism.

Was The People's struggle to regain their stolen democracy "fatalistically" overtaken by a seemingly more immediate threat or "terrorized" out of their attention by a "Reichstag Fire" event by unknown (according to the FBI) perpetrators ???

Both LIHOPpers and MIHOPpers would answer the same way. The Euphemedia would disagree, with derision.

Your mileage may vary.

==
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eowyn_of_rohan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-20-06 06:27 AM
Response to Reply #75
76. wow...Thank you
Fluctuating between LIHOP and MIHOP, this will be a good read with my morning coffee.
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 08:55 AM
Response to Original message
61. Computer fraud, it seems, is the one thing above all others that
they're most terrified of being caught for, judging from the artless concessions of their operatives on here, regarding the other areas.
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 08:58 AM
Response to Original message
62. Well we all know that America was the loser in Bush vs Gore.
AND we can see that Bush is a loser, by the things that he has done to all of us!
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Maven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
66. Amen and K/R
And I think he'd do even better in '08, no doubt about it.
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
67. Bush could admit it and laugh in our faces, it wouldn't make any differenc
Dems are too wimpy too commit to having the truth be known, something like, do you realize what would happen to this country if we were informed as to the truth in who really killed Kennedy and why.
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stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
68. Mr. Bush is Unelectable and Always Has Been
He never won an election. Can you say illegitimate leaderless leader? I knew you could!
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
73.  I BELIEVE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
When can we ask for President Gore to start leading us from these crooks?
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