Larisa: largest navy exercise since vietnam underway re iran

[lukery]

from an interview with larisa about iran:

And then there's the aircraft carrier movements that everyone is keeping an eye on. One carrier is already there - and two on the way. But that's not what's alarming. What's alarming is the exercise that's being done called Valiant Shield - and this I haven't covered because I think it's fairly well-known. And if it's not, well - now i'm telling you! There's an exercise being done called Valiant Shield - it's the largest Navy exercise since Vietnam...

http://wotisitgood4.blogspot.com/2006/06/larisa-interview-iran-leopold-and.html

[lukery]

1. new info?

i hadnt heard of this before

[Old and In the Way]

2. I think we will have 2 carrier groups in the Gulf on 6/16.

I think the America is coming in to relieve the Kitty Hawk? Timing is quite interesting, though....if this administration decides to attack Iran during this time, I really think this will jumpstart WW3.

[Sweet Pea]

8. America?

That would some trick. She's currently sitting on the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean.

[Sailor for Warner]

22. Yeah I was about to say

They sunk her for structural tests.

[Old and In the Way]

32. I guess it is the Enterprise deploying to relieve the Ronald Reagan.

Reagan appears to be in the So. China see, so I guess the Enterprise is the only Carrier in the Persian Gulf right now.

http://www.ne.jp/asahi/gonavy/atsugi/gonavy604.html

[Roland99]

3. US Navy website for Valiant Shield

http://www.pacom.mil/exercises/vs2006/

[lukery]

4. thnx

thnx roland

you always seem to know more than i do, about everything.

[Roland99]

5. Oh, I doubt that. ;-)

I look at this as hiding in plain sight, eh?

[lukery]

9. sibel

aha - well - you still know more than i do - even if it's hiding in plain sight.

btw - i should have some interesting sibel news in the next day or two over at my place

[Roland99]

10. Hmm....looking forward to that news!

[lukery]

14. sibel

there's some very interesting stuff actually - from a phone call i had with her last week.

am just putting the finishing touches on it

[DemReadingDU]

16. looking forward to Sibel news

love your blog, thanks!

[elehhhhna]

6. Violent Scheiss

[JAYJDF]

7. If Iran was smart

they not only would keep making friends with China and Russia, they would invite some troops to visit. Having troops from either of those two countries in Iran could prevent any senseless attack by the US.

[paparush]

35. Hunan Shields? : - )

[GliderGuider]

68. That was awful!

:eyes:

[LunaC]

45. Iran is in talks to join alliance against West

MAHMOUD Ahmadinejad, the Iranian President, held talks with Chinese and Russian leaders at a summit meeting yesterday to build up a security grouping in opposition to the US and Nato.

Mr Ahmadinejad was invited to address a meeting of the Shanghai Co-operation Organisation (SCO), a China-sponsored proto-alliance that aims to strengthen defence links across Central Asia.

In an implicit reference to the US and its pressure on Iran to end its nuclear weapons programme, he said that the SCO could “ward off the threats of domineering powers to use their force against and interfere in the affairs of other states”.

The summit was also attended by the leaders of Pakistan, Afghanistan, Mongolia, India and four Central Asian former Soviet republics. A joint declaration signed by those attending appeared to back the Iranian President.

“Differences in cultural traditions, political and social systems, values and models of development formed in the course of history should not be taken as pretexts to interfere in other countries’ internal affairs,” the joint declaration said.

The SCO was founded by China, Russia and the Central Asian republics ten years ago to fight terrorism, religious extremism and separatism in the region. In recent years, however, its militaries have expanded links to include joint exercises. Iran is said to be seeking full SCO membership, as is Pakistan. The participation of Iran has caused consternation in Washington. “It strikes me as strange that one would want to bring into an organisation that says it is against terrorism. . .one of the leading terrorist nations in the world — Iran,” said Donald Rumsfeld, the US Defence Secretary.


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,174-2228233,00.html

[hang a left]

11. Air Force prepares for Valiant Shield....and knr

http://www.pacaf.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123021378

Air Force prepares for Valiant Shield


by Senior Master Sgt. Charles Ramey
Kenney Headquarters (13AF) Public Affairs

6/8/2006 - HICKAM AIR FORCE BASE, Hawaii -- Airmen from 10 bases will join three Navy carrier strike groups, elements of a Marine Corps aircraft wing and the Coast Guard for one of the largest joint exercises in the Western Pacific June 19-23.

Called Valiant Shield, approximately 22,000 U.S. military personnel, 30 ships and 280 aircraft will converge upon the seas and skies near Guam for integrated joint training. More than 1,000 Airmen and a mix of more than 50 Air Force fighters, bombers, mobility and support aircraft will participate and air operations will fall under the responsibility of the Gen. George C. Kenney Headquarters at Hickam. Lt. Gen. David Deptula, KHQ commander, will serve as the joint force air component commander for Adm. Gary Roughead, U.S. Pacific Fleet commander and joint task force commander for Valiant Shield.

Working from Andersen Air Force Base, Guam, KHQ’s Pacific Air Operations Center at Hickam and the Navy’s Lincoln, Kitty Hawk and Reagan carrier strike groups; Airmen, Sailors, Soldiers and Marines will focus on enhancing joint combat skills and interoperability.

“Joint interoperability is the key for U.S. forces to successfully respond to future contingencies,” said General Deptula. “Exercises such as Valiant Shield give us an opportunity to ensure joint command, control and communications procedures are seamless, giving our air, sea, land, space and cyberspace warfighters the ability to quickly accomplish the mission with a wide range of interconnected systems and platforms.”

With the vast distances of the Pacific Ocean, integrated air and seapower is essential for immediate response to any event within the region. Joint training refines U.S. Pacific Command’s ability to present a seamless force to supported and supporting commanders.

more at link

[Canuckistanian]

38. "cyberspace warfighters"?

What, like massive DOS attacks on Iranian gov't websites?

That'll show them. Don't mess with America's Kung Fu.

[joe_shmoe]

12. -- Sign this petition against military action against Iran --

-- Sign this petition against military action against Iran --


It is with grave concern that I observe the growing threat of a new U.S. war--this time against the people of Iran.

For a collection of articles and resources on this subject you can visit this link: http://reseaudesign.com/research/iran/iran_summery.html

I'm starting up a petition which I will be sending out to as many members of Congress as possible. I'm asking for help to get this signed by as many people, possible in the next month. Send it to as many people you can.

http://www.petitiononline.com/n0war1rn /


thanks,
J-shmoe

[hang a left]

13. I found a real good question...

What do the largest U.S. Naval exercise in the Pacific since the Vietnam War and the largest continuity of government drill ever held by the United States Government have in common?

[ama]

15. a good question

It seems to me guam is nearer to North Korea than Iran

[Tsiyu]

17. I agree this is something to watch

very carefully.

Does Iran have missiles that might reach those ships? Are we trying to provoke something here?

Lots of questions. I've read a small amount about these exercises but not enough to fully understand the implications. Perhaps a military DUer might shed some light.

[the other one]

73. Iran can sink aircraft carriers in the gulf. And we are going to let them

Iran is in possession of approx. 300 russian sunburn missiles. Each one is capable of taking out an aircraft carrier. The missiles are believed position overlooking the gulf. What better way to get America on board with this war but by provoking Iran into using its missiles on our poor boys in uniform. 20k casualties in one day, and you can bet we will have a draft the following week. And any and all dissent will be treated as sedition. Get ready folks, cause here comes the fun.

[AmericasReporter]

18. We all need to stay vigilant and watch the military and their exercises

This administration is just out of their minds if they think that they can just go ahead and attack Iran.


Please email this thread around the the politicians so they can also watch this development.


America's Reporter

[Techno Dog]

21. What developments?

This is a very public naval exercize.

[Sailor for Warner]

23. I can tell you honestly

Having just come from a deployed unit in that theatre. That I saw nothing that would indicate anything but the waiting game. The US Navy plays very nice with Iran. It is the IRGN that you have to worry about. Most of the interaction is standard queries as we pass through the Strait of Hormuz or some small patrol boat telling one of the carriers over there that they should use Persian Gulf rather that Iranian Gulf when referring to the body of water they are in. They are very touchy about that.

Also, from a contingency standpoint, I would bet we are preparing for the very real threat that those fine upstanding people running Iran are going to try to shut down the Strait of Hormuz, which would be a very bad thing. I would not get to worked up over it, I dont think that this is a pretext to another invasion or anything like that. Put away thine tinfoul hats :tinfoilhat:

[lostnfound]

59. Tinfoil supplied by too much reading of history

Hi there. It's GREAT to have people on DU who are in the service or who have been.

I'm sure that at the level of people deployed in the field, there would only be a sense of 'playing nice'. However, it is not crazy to think that more is playing out in the background. Have you ever heard of the Northwoods memo? Or read anything by William Blum? Historically the stock and trade of US foreign affairs is to build on a squeaky clean, noble perception of who we are -- especially among our own people -- while in the background there's dirty tricks.

I would say that the Iranian leader would have to be crazy to attack first -- but it's quite likely that he is crazy. Nonetheless, the crew in Washington have had their sites on Iran for years. Part of their plan for global domination named "project for the new american century"

[KAT119]

19. www.googlenews.com has lead story today of North Korea testing long range

intercontinental missle today or tomorrow=19th June. Japan protesting!!

[Sailor for Warner]

25. Geez I would hope Japan would

What Im worried about there is Japan feeling so threatened by North Korean nukes that they amend their constitution to allow for premptive strike. Talk about destabilizing a region.

[Thickasabrick]

37. Japan is dead to me because of the whales. n/t

[JAYJDF]

20. Does anyone know if Congress has to give permission

before Busch can attack Iran? He probably thinks he already has their permission since he thinks his war on terror allows him to do anything he wants.

[Sailor for Warner]

24. I really think that everyone needs to calm down

If anything goes down with Iran it will be because of something like aggressive action to shut down the Strait of Hormuz or something. This will be a Navy thing not an army thing.

[yurbud]

27. see my post on the sunburn & think chess--Bush response to Iran moves

just as Iran is responding.

A naval engagement could be used as a causus belli to launch the long planned air strikes including nuclear bunker busters.

[Sailor for Warner]

28. Yes but I personally think

That we have cut a deal with Iran already re the nukes but I think Iran is goign to draw first blood on this one. They keep VERY good tabs on who is in the Gulf at any given time and where. They always seem to show up in the oddest places. Not to mention the merchants all over the Indian Ocean with the Iranian flag, pretty shady, neh?

[yurbud]

31. the Bushies don't give a rats ass about the nukes except as a pretext

if a deal was made, it was just a face-saving way for the Bushies to back down from war.

If you look at the kind of stuff Bolton is saying at the UN, they seem to still be following the plan.

[mmonk]

43. You really think Iran is going to attack us

unprovoked and get into war with us? I believe we are the ones currently with a "pre-emptive war" strategy.

[LunaC]

46. If there is an "Incident" in the Gulf, it will be staged

"Bush Said To Be Seeking “Persian Gulf Incident"

Remember the Maine? Remember the Maddox? US military leaders now fear that a copycat Cuban or Tonkin Gulf incident will be either faked or provoked sometime soon in the ship-clogged Persian Gulf.

Once an Iranian attack on a US-flagged tanker or warship is announced, US commanders could be ordered to “counter-attack” with all available force—including nuclear weapons. Even if they suspected a ruse, no serving soldier can fail to protect his or her comrades. Any grunt or general who refused such a “go” command would risk immediate courts-martial, and charges of treason in a time of war.

-snip -

“It will be another Gulf of Tonkin,” my source reported. “They want it. They’ll have it. Even if they have to make it.”

http://newswire.indymedia.org/en/2006/05/839133.shtml

[Sailor for Warner]

52. You keep believing that

There really are plenty of bad guys (besides us) in the world. Kahmeni truly does believe that the Strait of Hormuz belongs to Iran and is not an international shipping lane. He also knows that his Navy is the best in the area. Dont think that we are the only crazy war-mongering whackos in the world.

[LunaC]

56. Kahmeni (sic) ??? Ayatollah Khomeini is DEAD!

But, hey, you go ahead and keep thinking he's a threat....

Next.......

[SidDithers]

58. Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is Iran's supreme religious leader...

and is very much alive.

But you go ahead and keep miscorrecting other posters...

Next...

Sid

[theboss]

64. Who's the fool?

He actually knows the name of Iran's leader; you don't.

[rinsd]

70. Sigh

Ali Khamenei is the Supreme Leader of Iran, Khomenei was but is now dead

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Khamenei

The naval exercises called Valiant Shield are being held in Guam so blaming Iran for an attack could prove difficult.

Next time do just a little research before you are so completely wrong and such a jerk about it.

[druidity33]

71. held in Guam...

ok that's half a world away from Iran, but so was the WTC half a world away from Iraq... they'll blame an attack on anyone they want to take out. And they're not averse to staging attacks, either through intermediaries or a LIHOP scenario... doesn't the Phillipines have a "terrorist" network that the US has held training exercises against? That's kinda near Guam, no?

[yurbud]

26. Iran has Sunburn anti-ship missiles & could turn Gulf into Pearl Harbor

Of all the missiles in Iran's armament, the most dangerous is the Russian-made SS-N-22 Sunburn. These missiles are, simply, the fastest anti-ship weapons on the planet. The Sunburn can reach Mach 3 at high altitude. Its maximum low-altitude speed is Mach 2.2, some three times faster than the American-made Harpoon. The Sunburn takes two short minutes to cover its full range. The missile's manufacturers state that one or two missiles could cripple a destroyer, and five missiles could sink a 20,000 ton ship. The Sunburn is also superior to the Exocet missile. Recall that it was two Exocets that ripped the USS Stark to shreds in 1987, killing 37 sailors. The Stark could not see them to stop them.

The US aircraft carrier Theodore Roosevelt is currently deployed in the Persian Gulf, with some 7,000 souls aboard. Sailing with the Roosevelt is the Tarawa Expeditionary Strike Force, which includes the USS Tarawa, the USS Austin, and the USS Pearl Harbor. The USS Austin is likewise deployed in the Gulf. The Sunburn missile, with its incredible speed and ability to avoid radar detection, would do terrible damage these ships if Iran chooses to retaliate in the Gulf after an American attack within its borders.



http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/48/16812

[kevinbgoode]

30. But...but...but I thought the wingnuts claim that we are invulnerable

. . .and that no one can do anything to our supremacist military. With missiles like those, WWIII could be decided in ten minutes, and we could be without a Navy to protect our shores. And since we don't have any productive capacity in this country, we'd likely not be able to produce any ships fast enough. Aren't there any jamming equipment or decoys we can use in defense against missiles like the Sunburn?

[yurbud]

33. Remember the Stark that got hit with an Exocet missile?

it's funny, but these defensive weapons are a hell of a lot cheaper than offensive ones we use to project power on the other side of the globe.

[Igel]

29. I don't see how Valiant Shield is related to Iran in almost

any way.

The person doing the claiming points out a fact--Valiant Shield's being held--claims that because we didn't know it it's important. Then he switches to Iran, leading us to think that somehow the exercise is relevant.

His job is to make the relevance explicit. Leaving it to us to assume it is snivelly.

I'd also point out that I'd hardly invite foreign dignitaries to watch the beginning of a war. Such things typically are done with as much secrecy as possible, and enforcing a black-out on "dignitaries from Australia, China, India, Japan, Korea, Russia and Singapore" would be interesting, to say the least. Perhaps with Australia nad Japan, maybe India and Korea, but hardly with Russia and China, which are opposed to military intervention in Iran.

[Marie26]

50. Isn't it being held in Guam?

Don't really see the relevance either. And you're right, the inference is made that this has something to do w/Iran, w/o saying how or why this exercise is relevant.

[Igel]

67. Yes, it's being held around Guam.

At quite a distance from Iran, but then again, geography was never Americans' strong forte.

On edit: And apparently apostrophe placement's not mine.

[Marie26]

72. For real

Map of Guam:


Distance from Iran: 5864 miles


Guam actually seem more well-situated for actions against China or North Korea. I don't see any evidence that this exercise is targeted toward Iran & the OP hasn't provided any beyond the fact that it's being held. It seems like a good way to scare people, but w/o more information, there doesn't seem to be a good reason to believe this exercise is targeted at Iran. It seems a little irresponsible to imply that & inspire more fear about a war w/Iran. Maybe it's just an exercise - doesn't the military have them often?

Official Valiant Shield website - http://www.pacom.mil/exercises/vs2006/

[doc03]

34. This would be the perfect excuse to claim we were

attacked and the American public would be fired up to retaliate.

[atfqn]

39. My thoughts exactly

Have we forgotten the gulf of Tonkin or the USS Liberty?

[LunaC]

47. Bingo! - See post #46 nt

[rinsd]

69. Yeah an attack on Guam would really confuse the hell out of them

http://www.pacom.mil/exercises/vs2006/

Thanks Larissa, you just got DU even more paranoid.

[Canuckistanian]

36. Knowing the BFEE's penchant for misleading advertising

E.G., "Healthy Forests" "Clear Skies" "Corporate Responsibility": http://www.southshore.com/baedd.htm

I'm convinced they really mean "Triumphant Spear".

[brentspeak]

40. Is "Larissa" some kind of authority or something on world affairs?

This is the second "According to Larissa..." thread you've posted here. Are you her PR representative? She sounds kind of desperate to inject herself into the public eye.

[lukery]

42. journalist

she's an investigative journalist working on iran

i posted this thread because someone in the first thread asked me to start a new thread on this particular issue

[theboss]

65. Why does she care about naval exercises in the Pacific?

Does she really think they relate to Iran?

[lala_rawraw]

44. just fyi, i had no role in either

of these postings nor do i claim authority on anything. this is a transcript done of an interview i did and it was posted here as well as other places it seems. best, la

[lukery]

49. right

sorry - i didnt even think that was worth responding to

[Rex]

41. Total forces involved.

The following U.S. forces are participating in Valiant Shield 06:

Joint Task Force 519 staff, Pearl Harbor, Hawaii
Joint Task Force 519 Joint Force Air Component Command, Kenney Headquarters, Hickam AFB, Hawaii
Joint Task Force 519 Joint Force Maritime Component Command, aboard USS Blue Ridge

United States Navy:
Kitty Hawk Carrier Strike Group

USS Kitty Hawk (CV 63), Yokosuka, Japan Carrier
Carrier Air Wing Five (CVW 5), Atsugi, Japan
USS Cowpens (CG 63), Yokosuka, Japan
USS John S McCain, (DDG 56), Yokosuka, Japan
USS Vandegrift (FFG 48), Yokosuka, Japan
USS Lassen (DDG 82), Yokosuka, Japan
USS Curtis Wilbur (DDG 54), Yokosuka, Japan
USS Fitzgerald (DDG 62), Yokosuka, Japan

Abraham Lincoln Carrier Strike Group

USS Abraham Lincoln (CVN 72), Everett, Wash.
Carrier Air Wing Two (CVW 2), Lemoore, Calif.
USS Mobile Bay (CG 53) San Diego, Calif.
USS Shoup (DDG 86), Everett, Wash.
USS Russell (DDG 59) Pearl Harbor, Hawaii

Ronald Reagan Carrier Strike Group

USS Ronald Reagan (CVN 76), San Diego, Calif.
Carrier Air Wing Fourteen (CVW 14) Lemoore, Calif.
USS Decatur (DDG 73), San Diego, Calif.
USS Lake Champlain (CG 57), San Diego, Calif.
USS McCampbell (DDG 85), San Diego, Calif.
USNS Rainier (T-AOE 7) Bremerton, Wash.

USS Blue Ridge (LCC 19), Yokosuka, Japan
USS Houston (SSN 713), Guam
USS Honolulu (SSN 718), Pearl Harbor, Hawaii
USS City of Corpus Christi (SSN 705), Guam
USS Tucson (SSN 770) Pearl Harbor, Hawaii
USNS Impeccable (T-AGOS 23)
RV Cory Chouest
MV PFC James Anderson Jr (T-AK 3002)
MV MAJ Bernard F. Fisher (T-AK 4396)
USNS Watson (T-AKR 310)
SS Cape Jacob (T-AK 5029)
SS Petersburg (T-AOT 9101)
Patrol Squadron Nine, P-3C Detachment, Kaneohe, Hawaii
Air Recon Squadron One, EP-3E Detachment, Misawa, Japan
Strategic Comms Wing One, E-6 Detachment

United States Air Force:

13th Air Force/Kenney Headquarters (PACAF)
Pacific Air Operations Center, Hickam AFB, Hawaii
36th Wing, Andersen AFB, Guam

5th Air Force (PACAF):

18th Wing, Kadena AB, Okinawa, Japan (F-15C/KC-135/E-3)
35th Fighter Wing, Misawa AB, Japan (F-16CJ)

8th Air Force (ACC):

509th Bomb Wing, Whiteman AFB, MO (B-2)

11th Air Force (PACAF):

3rd Wing, Elmendorf AFB, Alaska (F-15E)

18th Air Force (AMC):

60th Air Mobility Wing, Travis AFB CA (KC-10)
305th Air Mobility Wing, McGuire AFB NJ (KC-10)

New York Air National Guard:

107th Air Refueling Wing, Niagara Falls, NY (KC-135)

United States Marine Corps:

III Marine Expeditionary Force, Okinawa, Japan

VFA-97 (F/A-18C), Iwakuni, Japan

United States Coast Guard:

USCGC Galveston Island (WPB-1349), Guam
-------------------------------------------------------

WOW! That is a shitload of military hardware! It really bothers me that they call them strike groups. No question about intent there. :hide:

[lala_rawraw]

48. which is why some folks are very concerned...

as you can see, there is far too much hardware here... now it could be that this is a display, but when you display with such threat, you tend to invite reaction.

[Sailor for Warner]

54. Once again

This is pretty standard for a paccom exercise. They are mostly Fwd Deployed and are contantly doign large scale training and maneuvers. Thats why it sucks to be in the Navy out of Pearl or Okinowa, you are always underway for some sort of shit.

[stephinrome]

51. It is indeed massive

It's interesting that there has been very little talk of this. It's starting today and AFAIK this is the first post on DU.

I question why larissa says it's "fairly well known". I searched in google news and saw mostly reporting from the Guam, Chinese and Hawaiian press. It is casually mentioned today in all the press on the N. Korea missile tests.

Fairly well known?

[Sailor for Warner]

53. They are alays called strike groups

Dont read into that. Ive been in a strike group that did nothing but patrol a box south of Crete for 6 months. Like I said, tinfoil hats can probably go back in the closet for now.:tinfoilhat:

[druidity33]

55. do you think...

We should always believe what our government tells us? I at least will maintain a healthy sense of doubt about this "exercise"... as for the tin foil hat, with all the crap that's been going on lately, i don't see any reason why i should take mine off.

Isn't it usually a patrol group that gets hit by surprise attacks? If part of the "training exercise" comes under fire, would they shoot first ask questions later?

Just don't know how you can be so blindly confident about the motives of the current military leadership...
they've done everything they can to fuck the citizens, the veterans, and servicemembers of this country.




edited to change picture...

[Sailor for Warner]

60. I just think that

Everyone needs to settle down. Sometimes the US Military just needs to train!
I know it is a hard concept to get you mind around, but sometimes the PACCOM people just get together and get this crazy idea that they need to train for some interoperability.

Strike Group is the term used to describe a number of deployed units, particularly with a carrier.

[LunaC]

57. Do you know anything about PNAC?

Nothing "tinfoil hat" about them, and Iran is next on their Hit List. You might want to stand down and do a bit more research before you share any more pearls of wisdom from your Oh-So-Big Brain.

[Sailor for Warner]

61. I know plenty about PNAC.

I also know the reality of the situation and the general way that these joint OPS go. The size of my brain is not at issue here. I am just sharing an analysis based on my experience, just because you think you are some sort of PNAC scholar that can predict their every move does not give you any sort of authority from which to speak on the topic of Naval Strategy or motives.

[windbreeze]

62. I understand perfectly what YOU are saying....however

there are another couple things to consider....
1. that 4,000 gov't workers are heading for bunkers today, in a huge exercise(the biggest yet) meant to imitate another 9/11...(called Forward Challenge 06)
2. that on the day of 9/11...exercises were taking place imitating planes being flown into buildings and how emer. services would respond...
3. that on 7/7/05....in England, there were exercises being held imitating an attack on London's underground transit system...and that both attacks #2 and #3 happened on the days that "false" training exercises were being held....

Now true, this may just be another show of force, and I DO know that they(our military, and all the world's militaries) hold exercises like this almost to the point of redundancy...to make sure everyone knows their place, how they should react, and to find out how long it takes a number of people to react to a given/possible situation...but some of us feel it is damned, shall we say, "coincidental", that two massive exercises(one regarding gov't workers=shadow gov't...and one involving our military) are taking place on the same damned day...

When it comes to trusting those "in charge"...they don't have a very good track record at this point...and in my book...what could/would seem more innocent...than to invite observers from other countries to watch?....and then those witnesses can tell people(news sources) around the world how we were just minding our own business, innocently having our little exercises...and that they saw no intent on our part, to cause a problem...or attack anyone...(but of course, they understand how we couldn't just let that "incident" go unanswered)...

I hope to God, both of these {"Forward Challenge 06, and Operation Valiant Shield"} turn out to be....just "exercises"....but if they don't, and something does actually happen...then it was planned, and by asking observers along, they planned to cover their asses...(which is pretty smart when you consider it)...with this bunch, I think we should keep the tinfoil hats handy, because a lot of what has happened on their watch, IS totally unbelievable...and also totally unacceptable...
wb

[lala_rawraw]

74. i think you need to go back to what Sam Gardiner said

of what he sees as a probable way a hit will occur, that is, should a an air strike by the US move forward. this is hardly tin foil stuff when you have serious and respected military leaders sounding the alarm bells. he believes that this location is central to air strikes as is Diego Garcia. but my concern is not this excerice or that it is the biggest one since god knows when. my concern is that we are already using a proxy ops force in the south of Iran called MEK, a terrorist organization. this was done wihout Presidential finding, meaning that it is not a CIA op and it bypassed Congress as a seeming military op, even though such ops should and have been handled by CIA in the past.

the carriers are in themselves not important, it is the combination of factors that people are pointing to: mek already creating a part a of the plan: regime change insurgency in Iran; part b of the plan is the sanctions now being imposed bypassing the EU and with no chapter seven resolution; the c part of the plan seems to be playing diplomacy with deal killers inserted; and part d has established a new OSP called the Iranian directorate with the same people, minus Feith and Franklin.

now add the carriers to the mix and Gardiner's air strike scenario and you have a serious question of "what the hell is going on?"

[earth mom]

63. Kick but too late to recommend. A must read link! eom

[savemefromdumbya]

66. Does Congress know about this?

perhaps BushCheney will not inform congress that they are going alone?

[lala_rawraw]

75. that is the key question of course...

and it appears that they did not know about the use of MEK and then Kucinich sent a letter demanding answers about this after Hersh's piece of using proxy groups and then my piece identifying them at MEK and Gardiner's confirmation of these things on CNN. did he get a response? your question is key and it is the same question i have.

[savemefromdumbya]

76. maybe we should ask Kucinich?