The Expected USA Financial Fall

[Rainscents]

Under Greenspan, the US had amassed $44 trillion of debt by 2005: $10 trillion by the federal government, $2 trillion by state and local governments, and $34 trillion by the public sector, of which the business sector held $8.3 trillion, the finance sector held $12.5 trillion and the household sector held $11.5 trillion. In addition, the United States faces an unfunded contingent liability of $7 trillion in Social Security and $37 trillion in Medicare obligations. The Greenspan debt monkey is 10 times as large as Mellon's after adjustment for inflation. The delayed but unavoidable bursting of Greenspan's debt bubble will make the 1930s Depression look like a minor storm. More...
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/HF17Dj01.html

This is an amazing TOTAL of $88 TRILLION!!

:wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wow: :wow: :wow:

[LaPera]

1. Mind boggling...We're all just waiting?

:spank:

What else does one do?

And...Get rid of your personal debt!

[indepat]

32. It's not a matter of if, but when: those able to live off the land will

likely fail best.

[Selatius]

2. It's the public debt that should be addressed first, not private

If the federal government itself is not able to maintain budget discipline and continues to borrow vast sums of money to feed its binges, then that will eventually translate into a wrecked dollar because the government may no longer be able to make the payments without crippling, drastic changes.

A weak dollar means the US will be less able to buy foreign-made goods, and since the US has imported more than exported for decades now, this would mean the US economy would contract or "crash" to a newer, lower level that is sustainable. This could mean a lower standard of living for everyone except those at the very top of the economic power structure.

[Deja Q]

3. Sadly enough, it's those at the top who control things...

[Selatius]

4. They want the crash to happen

It will make everybody desperate and dependent upon the elite for survival. A friend in need is a friend indeed. If made desperate enough, people will accept the most unfair, exploitative deals imaginable if they think it will put some food on the table. They want the crash precisely to do this--to, in essence, usher in a new age of capital feudalism.

"I won't pay you enough so you can become independent, but if you work for me, I'll give you food and shelter as long as you obey me and not question my authority. If not, then you will have neither food nor shelter."

[roguevalley]

5. if this guts my state pension, I will sharpen my pitchfork for battle.

I am my sole support and I take care of two very ill parents.

[dysfunctional press]

8. i'm 45 and disabled on social security...

my social security check is based on the amount I paid into the system- and even then i was already screwed by an employer- over 10% of my lifetime SS wages weren't paid in, even tho they were deducted from my check- almost 20 years ago...i'm s.o.l. with no recourse, and a 12% lower check every month...

if MY money is affected- there WILL be blood in the streets...i will NOT go quietly.

[roguevalley]

23. I will join you, honey. I'm sorry they did you this way.

[niallmac]

12. That seems like as good an explanation as any.

I can never figure why supposed financial conservatives have been acting the way they have by
encouraging debt on all levels and encouraging financial class disparity.
Forever, the Republicans have been taunting the Dems and 'tax and spenders.'
The Republicans are just 'spenders.'
I still wonder what the social reaction to all this will be?
When the middle class loses all hope of owning a home and a Bass boat
what then?

[DarleenMB]

14. Which is exactly why

major corporations have been shuffling jobs overseas. As Tom Hartman has said again and again, they are trying to destroy the middle class. With a surplus of labor they can pay diddly squat, or even return us to slavery.

[Rainscents]

15. Exactly right.

It's scary when shit hit the fan because, most of us, we ain't seen nothing yet!

[bvar22]

18. Its like that now...

...in many places.
Talk to a NorthWestern pilot.


The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

[Deja Q]

22. They dole out the jobs. We're already dependent on them. Except

I don't see where they'd give out food or shelter. They'll charge handsomely for it.

It'll make slavery look charming by comparison.

[The Doctor.]

30. They really just don't learn... do they?

Like all the 'elites' throughout history, they look at only one side of the equation, "What do I get out of this?", without looking at the fallout part.

They're going to send us all into hell and they somehow believe we won't try to take them with us.

There will be such crime, violence, and uprisings... when the dust settles we'll be a communist nation.

In the meanwhile it's going to get very ugly.

[atfqn]

19. I think this quote sums up -

the current direction we are being taken.

As late as 1930, secretary of the Treasury Andrew Mellon held that a financial panic might not be such a bad thing. "It will purge the rottenness out of the system," he said. "High costs of living ... will come down. People will work harder, live a moral life. Values will be adjusted, and enterprising people will pick up the wrecks from less competent people."

[leveymg]

7. They've created a police state apparatus in anticipation of a crisis

The outlines of an eventual U.S. financial collapse were seen a decade ago during the 1997 Asia Crisis. Crony capitalism, market failure, excess aggregation of debt were all characteristics of the economies that came to near ruin in the late 1990s. Bush-Cheney was put in to do exactly what he has done -- to create the mechanism for total surveillance and social control that will be necessary to cope with the political consequences when the rolling collapse finally washes ashore in America. Like the unexpected low tide before a tsunami, the primary warning sign of an imminent crash is a sudden outflow of capital abroad and a drastic lowering of foreign investment. The elimination of M3 is designed to mask that.

[JDPriestly]

6. Thanks. Great Article.

[MichiganVote]

9. Good article.

[Mnemosyne]

10. K and R n/t

[teryang]

11. The PPT is directed toward crushing natural resource prices

I've been forced out of my energy holdings. I can't stand by and watch while the pitiful remains of my IRA and the Millenium meltdown get reduced again to almost nothing by the short sellers and naked put sellers from Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, et al. They will clean up.

Hey don't you know? Oil, gas, steel, aluminum, gold, silver, zinc, and copper are all worthless! US government paper is worth more!

[Roland99]

13. They did a good job of halting the weeks-long slide of the markets

last week just in time to coincide w/*'s trip to Iraq.

[lonestarnot]

16. eeeeee yikes, I can barely stand to read this truth.

[question everything]

17. And the debt is owed to foreigners

I was debating a co-worker when we thought that the Iraq mess was going OK and that we were getting ready on reconstruction and those arrogant bastards in the White House were not going to "share the spoils" with German and French companies and my co-worker agreed with that approach.

This might be a reason for raising interest rates - to give the foreign investors an incentive to continue purchasing US bonds.

[Iowa]

20. On a more positive note...

"Henry Morgenthau was nominated by president Roosevelt to be the 52nd secretary of the Treasury and served from January 1, 1934, until July 22, 1945, in FDR's "New Deal" and War Administration. During his historically long term, Morgenthau exercised a stabilizing effect on US monetary policies through progressive taxation and sovereign credit, raising $450 billion ($45 trillion in 2005 dollars in relative share of GDP) for anti-depression government spending programs and for war costs. This amount was more than all the money raised by all of the previous 51 treasury secretaries, enough in current dollar equivalent to pay off all the debts in the US economy today. This shows that under effective leadership the US can be debt-free with the proper resolve and fairly distributed sacrifice to re-emerge as a great nation with unprecedented prosperity without exploitation either at home or abroad."

There is a way out. But two things must occur before the cleanup can even begin. 1) The republican agenda must be crushed... it must be so thoroughly discredited that it won't crawl out from under it's slimy rock for generations to come. Unfortunately that may not occur until AFTER a great deal of suffering. 2) The Democratic party must return to its roots. We can't have lightweight corporatists such as Iowa Governor Tom Vilsack on a short list of potential Dem presidential candidates.

[jjrjsa]

21. ...

:scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared:

[AuntiBush]

26. Excellent Point!

Now what? Is our money safe in banks? Caught wind of this on CNN Money earlier today.

Does anyone recall hearing stories from a long time ago how little ole' ladies stuffed their mattresses with cash?

[johnaries]

24. Why are they saying "under Greenspan"? Greenspan WARNED

about deficit spending and the growing debt. This can only be blamed on Bush and Congressional Republicans.

[Thickasabrick]

25. Why isn't Bernanke harping more about this? n/t

[AuntiBush]

27. Thank the GOP & BUSH for this.

Maybe it's because *&Co have all their money invested everywhere else but here. Boy, they really don't care about anyone but themselves.

Wake-up Republican voters, wake the hell up!

[CoffeeCat]

28. So, what do we do?

Is our money safe in banks?

Should we be investing in foreign markets? Gold?

Or should we also be stuffing our mattresses?

[althecat]

29. 186,000 kilometers of $100 bills (9 x around the globe) = $88 trillion

Tis very hard to understand how much money $88 trillion is

One way of working out how much that is....

If 10 $100 bills laid on top of each other is 2mm high (which it is) then...

A pile of $100 bills this high =
1 cm of bills = $5000
1 meter of bills = $500,000
2 meters of bills = $1,000,000
2 kilometers of bills = $1 billion
2000 kilometers (1600 miles) of bills = $1 trillion
186,000 kilometers of $100 bills (9 x around the globe) = $88 trillion dollars

[eviltwin2525]

31. so that means if it was in $50s, it would be longer than a light-second!

astonishing, even to a nerd