bush impeachment: two scenarios

[liberalitch]

scenario A) We push impeacement NOW, while the GOP still controlls the machine of that possible impeachment. It falls flat. They can say "See impeachment just doesn'y have the votes...." Which will be roughly, rudely and incorrectly translated by THEM to mean "See impeachment doesn't have the support of the American people." ...and we get more of the same because NOW there political captial to spend.

Scenario B) We wait and work hard to see that the balance of power is shifted in the Congress. Allow there to be full-scale and public investigations.... followed by SUCCESSFUL impeachment proceedures..... for both * and fuckin' satan.... I mean the vice president

I prefer scenario B

[mattomjoe]

1. The problem I see with scenario B is that is comes off as being partisan.

The right could easily spin this into a witch hunt. And with the dysfunctional media being what it is, it wouldn't be a stretch to think that they'd take up that angle as well.

[BOSSHOG]

2. Yes, however

There is no official movement towards impeachment in congress now because of partisanship. Dems could prove there is a witch and ask why republicans didn't hunt sooner. I think on a small scale right now, the American Public is getting wiser to the ways the republicans operate. You are right, they will trash anyone or anything that approaches the truth and wants to make said truth public.

[liberalitch]

27. he turned me into a newt.....

I got better

[bagrman]

11. Fully functioning Media and the unAmerican card.

The Media is doing exactly what the owners want them to do, keep the light off our boys in office.
The Dems need to take a page from the Reps. play book and start calling the lack of movment on this matter and others as unAmerican, just one more bit of the constitution ripped off and tossed in the fire.


Latr
chris

[Options Remain]

3. SCENARIO C

The republican congress chooses to impeach over a weaker charge they can beat. And then the senate must acquit because the charge isnt enough to remove from office.

they then use this to counter all legitimate impeachment demands.

[Demeter]

6. There Aren't Any Weak Ones

Unless they got Dubya in bed with Gannon, or somebody.

[No Exit]

19. Ohhhhh noooooo... ohhhhhh nooooo, don't you know,

if that were to happen, we would learn that A PRESIDENT IS ENTITLED TO HIS PRIVATE LIFE AND WHAT HE DOES SEXUALLY IS NOBODY'S BUSINESS!

And, yes, it would be repukes telling us this--screaming it at us!--and with a straight face!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[ClassWarrior]

4. Scenario C...

We push impeacement NOW, knowing that nothing will happen while the GOP still controls the machine of that possible impeachment. We simultaneously work hard to see that the balance of power is shifted in the Congress.

Then there CAN be full-scale and public investigations followed by SUCCESSFUL impeachment proceedures because the pump will be primed for it.

I ain't "waitin" for anything.

NGU.

[truth2power]

23. I vote for scenario C. As you said, "I ain't waitin.." n/t

[liberalitch]

28. yes, but when we take a SECOND stab at the same target...

then they'll wail... "we've been here before and people don't want it"

[C_U_L8R]

5. There's also a slim possibility

that the Abramoff scandal (and others republican corruption trials)
might tip the balance of power BEFORE 2006.

How sweet would that be ???!!!!

Given your two scenarios... B may be the more effective way to go...
destroy the base and watch the head topple off... though we're having
so much fun right now going straight after Bush.... after all he DID
break the law and it IS an impeachable offense. The problem is that the
republican congress is thoroughly corrupt (and hence we are back to B again).

One thing's for certain... these crooks are crumbling... slowly and surely

[HereSince1628]

7. I certainly think that creates a background that begs for congressional

rehabilitation. Appointing a special prosecutor or going for impeachment would both contribute to that remedy.

[HereSince1628]

8. Scenario D...get the special prosecutor now, start hearings now

Edumakate the Murikans. Lying, Misleading and Abuse of power are things the nation will rise up against if they are mostly convinced it's happened.

[Gatchaman]

9. There will be no impeachment

until after the mid-term elections, and it will happen only if the makeup of congress changes. Not necessarily democrat majorities, but getting rid of a few major bushbots like Santorum.

[HereSince1628]

18. Maybe, an investigation by a special prosecutor

would take that long anyway.

I think the hardest thing is going to be achieving a level of openness that allows the public to come to understand the nature of Bush's/Cheney's offenses. There will be a huge, if bogus, uproar about revealing secrets that threaten national security.

[leftupnorth]

10. Don't we need 2/3 majority in BOTH houses to impeach and convict?

I think scenario A is plausible if we could prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the administration blatantly violated the law and violated an essential principle of our Constitution. We could get it IF (big if) we could shame enough sane Republicans into voting for rule of law over partisan politics. We have to frame them as cowards or pansies because they are so willing to destroy the Constitution in order to "save" the country from the terrists. All you have to do is quote Ben Franklin and explain to them that there are three branches of government, and each branch MUST have a check on the others. The administration's successful attempt at bypassing the judicial check on executive power, in this case the FISA court, is an impeachable offense. Any who ordered such activities to be conducted and those that conducted them ought to be removed from their positions for violation of the FISA laws.

Impeachment is possible, before Jan 2007, but we need to dominate the debate, and shame anyone who would argue against the Constitution and the 4th amendment. I think it would resonate.

JMHO

[Silverhair]

13. Majority in the house, 2/3 in Senate.

There simply will not be that level of support. One problem that many DUers have is that they don't associate with anyone except other strong Democrats. So their local universe is all Democratic and they project that to the population at large. But the truth is that the nation is about evenly divided and deeply polarized.

[Silverhair]

12. Scenario B fails too.

It takes 2/3 of the Senate. No way we can get that many to vote guilty.

[leftupnorth]

15. you might be right

but then we could run on a platform of "restoring honesty and integrity to the White House"

Ironic, no? and at least we tried to do the right thing for the rule of law.

[Greyhound]

30. Especially with Lieberman & the other DINOs et al betraying us. n/t

[MadisonProgressive]

14. Couldn't we just call in Mongo?

[Jamison]

16. Bush deserves impeachment, but...

will it really improve things? If Bush is impeached, then we get Dick for President (oh boy!). Then if Cheney is indicted & impeached over some crime, then we get President Hastert. The point is that no matter how many of these thugs we remove from office, there will be just another RW asshole waiting next in line to take their place.

[ClassWarrior]

17. Not "President Hastert" - President Pelosi.

NGU.

[Jamison]

22. Not Hastert anymore huh?

What changed?

[ClassWarrior]

24. So you think a Republicon Congress would impeach and convict both...

...Junior** and Unka Dick**? What changed?

NGU.

[Jamison]

25. Probably not.

What I was asking is if Hastert was still 3rd in line or what?

You're right, chances are slim Bush & Cheney would be impeached & removed from office.

Best thing we can do is kick some ass in the '06 elections, and beat them in '08 too.

[ClassWarrior]

26. Don't twist my words. I said the criminal Republicons won't impeach them.

But you know as well as I do that after '06 Pelosi will be third in line.

NGU.

[leftupnorth]

20. i think it would effectively neuter bush

or anyone that replaced him. any move to assert any extraordinary executive power would be seen as a blatant power grab.

[liberalitch]

29. in any scenario...

that's probably true

[MrBenchley]

21. Scenario B is a much better one....

Good post

[OneBlueSky]

31. re: Scenario B . . . BushCo will not permit a Democratic takeover . . .

of either house of Congress . . . quite simply, they're the ones who count the votes . . .