How can Middle Class America afford college?

[maxrandb]

I have two kids. One will be a Senior next year, and the other will be a Freshman. Both do well in "public" schools and are in advanced AP classes. Oldest one just cut a 2010 on the new SAT.

We own a home, or I should say, we are in the 30 year process of buying a home. Not loaded, doing OK, with a little bit if equity.

Got info on four of the colleges the oldest would like to attend. We're not talking Harvard, Columbia, or Princeton, were talking Ohio State, William and Mary, UVA, and VA Tech.

The average cost for a year, not counting books, is $21,000 for in state tuition!!!! That's the equivalent of buying a new car every year!

They may get a small scholarship, but I don't see how people can afford it? We're probably on the higher end of the Middle Class, but we may be looking at leaving our kids nothing but debt.

I'd like to do for my kids what was once standard in America. I'd like to pay for their education, but $21,000 a year not counting books!!!??? That's insane.

[Avalux]

1. They're not supposed to go to college.

They're supposed to join the military and be fodder for the aristocracy's empire building schemes. Did you think we lived in a Democracy? Sorry.

(bitter about it, sorry if I offended).

[aikoaiko]

76. Actaully, the GI Bill is still a good deal,

I know deployment is nearly certain, but if they are willing to serve, an education can be had for free. Plus with signing bonuses and harms way pay, they could develop a little savings before college. And then there is ROTC.

And if they make it out alive, the experience will make them stronger.

[PassingFair]

97. And they get a chance to kill foreigners, too!

Jeez....

:crazy:

[aikoaiko]

99. Its true, the GI Bill comes at a price.

I still think US military service is noble worthy thing to do. Its up to us to get a decent democrat in the executive office who will use the military wisely and morally.

[goddess40]

146. The military can not be trusted

2500 are dead because they wanted to help their country and/or go to college and a huge number are disabled for a lie.

[aikoaiko]

153. I disagree, the military can be trusted as much as any huge institution..

..to do what they say.

I'm not concerned at all by our military --- its the elected officials and their cronies who send them places to do their jobs.

[goddess40]

159. but by joining the army you put yourself in harms way

to be abused and killed by a corrupt leader, just like the men and women who are in Iraq right now.

[NMMNG]

127. Indeed

Sign up for a significant chance of a lifetime of PTSD, depression, paralysis or other psycho/somatic disability--and that's if you make it home alive.

But you get a free college education and the chance to kill brown people!

[Name removed]

129. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Sailor for Warner]

137. Why was my post deleted

I took offense to the implication that that is a reason to join the military. That is not why I joined. I would like an explination as to why that post was deleted and all the other posts making snarky quotes about "killing brown people" were not?

[PassingFair]

141. Perhaps because you outright called another poster

an ***hole?

We don't attack each other personally around here.

And killing foreigners is a requirement in the service
if you are ordered to do so. Killing civilians is a
little murkier.

It doesn't seem like a good trade to be required to
murder people in Iraq just to get an education.
Not to mention the risk to your own life.

Now that we see the ease with which the executive branch
can choke the country into initiating wars of conquest
and occupation, joining the service to get an education
emerges as the WORST PLAN EVER for education.

[Sailor for Warner]

142. Oh yeah, sorry I was a little mad

However he implied that I was liked to kill brown people. So only direct attacks are not allowed (not complaining about the policy just clarifying the rules)

[PassingFair]

144. He/she didn't imply anything about YOU at all.

Ideas are fair game.

There are other things that are "not allowed", I suggest
a thorough reading of the site's rules.

:)

[Sailor for Warner]

149. Got it thanks

:spank:
Ive been thouroughly chastized

[aikoaiko]

154. Don't be too sorry -- it was still a mean spirited comment.

The implication that those who sign up for service do so for the chnace to go to college and kill brown people.

You have to be more clever, as that other poster was, and be INDIRECT, in your personal attacks, or generalize to point that it allows wiggle room.

[NMMNG]

166. I didn't mean to imply that *all* who join the service do so

for the opportunity to kill brown people (or anybody for that matter), particularly liberals who join the service (my own father and grandfather served). However there is a special breed of individuals who join the military just for that purpose, or current members who relish the opportunity.




A lone voice called out from the crowd, "We're gonna kick some Iraqi ass, sir."

"What'd you say?" asked the colonel.

The guy stood up, about thirty rows back. "We're gonna kick some Iraqi ass, sir."

"Any of these other limp dicks gonna help, or are you gonna win the Medal of Honor all by your lonesome?" said the colonel. "What are the rest of you sorry excuses for Marines going to do?"

"Kick some Iraqi ass, sir."

"What?"

"Kick some Iraqi ass, sir."

"I'm afraid my tired old ass is going to have to retire, cause I just plain can't hear you ladies."

"KICK SOME IRAQI ASS, SIR."

"Goddam, I love this shit," said the colonel. "Gotta get my ass over there to fight alongside you Marines." He lowered his head for a moment. "Seriously, now, I need to let you in on some vital intelligence. Barring the interference of God, we are going to be at war when you ladies and gentleman hit the sands of Saudi Arabia. Frankly, I think even God wants the Marines to go kick some Iraqi ass, with a ringside seat at the Mother of All Battles."
http://www.borealisbooks.org/books/0873514505_excerpt.htm






I have nieces and nephews in the military. I have a lot of friends in the Reserves. Every single serving member that I have spoken with about this has said substantially the same thing: that they are ready to go kick some Iraqi ass. This is not to say they want war, but they are ready, willing and able to fight one.
http://www.deanesmay.com/archives/000388.html





Staff Sergeant Jimmy Massey may be the most unlikely of the soldiers who have come out against the war. A Marine since 1992, he has been a recruiter, infantry instructor, and combat platoon leader. He went to Iraq primed to fight. “9/11 pissed me off,” he says. “I was ready to go kill a raghead.
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:R8tze8pdTIQJ:www.glnawi.org/resources/Script%2520Costs%2520of%2520War%2520%26%2520Human%2520Needs%2520Round%2520Robin1.doc+kill+raghead&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=12

[emcguffie]

169. Gee whiz, that only works if they don't get killed. NT

[Imagevision]

167. YOU MEAN THERE'S STILL A MIDDLE CLASS?!!

sparosnare, I AGREE, THERE ARE PLENTY OF OPPORTUNITIES TO GET YOUR COLLEGE THRU THE MILITARY PLUS YOU GET TO SERVE YOUR COUNTRY BY S-P-R-E-S-D-I-N-G ALL THIS DEMOCRACY AND FREEDOM BUSH PLANNING TO SHARE AROUND THE GLOBE.

[CottonBear]

2. They can't.

The best advice is for the kids themselves to get college loans, grants and scholarships plus a part-time job. They have a working life ahead of them during which they can pay back any loans.

Parents need to save for their retirement rather than to go into further personal debt for college costs.

[Jed Dilligan]

5. As long as they don't whine, where's the grandkids?

My generation has debt to service instead of children.

[Donailin]

102. Same boat, sorta (advice)

My oldest is going into 12th, my middle into 11th and my youngest, 9th. The 12th and 11th graders are ambitiously smart -- both are in at least three AP classes and the rest honors. GPA is 3.5 unweighted for both and they are members of the National High School Scholar Society. Up until recently, they spoke only of going to a university. My oldest spoke of UMD (we love in Maryland)or UMBC or possibly Johnson and Whales because he is considering being a chef. My middle is an extraordinary musician and has always wanted to go to Berklee (Boston) or DePual (chicago). But lately we have all considered the unspeakable option of our community college for the first two years. Fortunately, Montgomery Community College is EXCELLENT, so excellent in fact that it will be made a university in two years. Students coming out of MCC are highly favored applicants in state universities across the country. The cost is a FRACTION of what a university would cost. They would spend the first two years getting all their required credits, while being able to live at home and keep their local part time jobs. They will not be tempted or pressured to waste the first year of college partying because there are parents (well, me)around to keep them "focused on priority". An by the time they are 20-21, they will have the maturity and college experience to know what they REALLY want to major in rather than change their mind after thousands have been spent.

I am now pushing all my children towards this option. So are many many upper middle class parents here in uber-rich montgomery county. I am on the bottom rung of the economic ladder, I own nothing of value; grants, scholarships, borrowing and earnings (work study is offered by their employers) will be the ticket to their education. Plus they are half Cuban -- first generation, a minority. They are lucky in this regard.

I strongly suggest that you consider a community college for two years, it is the most affordable, least risky, and logical option until we get Dems back in power who will reverse the ridiculous higher educations bills the GOP passed last year.

[tblue37]

118. Yes, and maybe pick up a few reuired courses online. (eom)

[StellaBlue]

148. I did that/.

I now owe a huge amount and will be paying $250 a month until I'm 52. Oh, yeah, and I'm unemplyed. Been looking for eleven months. Seriously. I work in a movie theater. I have a masters.

Higher ed is the biggest racket going.

I'd encourage kids to take some time off, European style, travel the world on the cheap and/or volunteer with the less fortunate, preferably in a foreign country. Learn another lanugage. Then think long and hard about the realities of college, the job market, and debt. Take out a few loans, but try to pay as you go, even if it means taking longer to get a degree.

If you pay for your kids' $20K/year education, they will be in for a RUDE awakening, unles they becomes doctors or something. I was rudely awakened, and I paid myself and worked 20 hours a week the whole time.

[RebelOne]

3. The only solution is to work for a college.

My daughter works for a college in Miami and she was able to get her batchelor's degree for nothing other than the cost of her books. She is now working toward her master's. And her kids will be eligible for a free college education also.

[MountainLaurel]

20. Not a guarantee though

The institution I work for (a pretigious religious school) has horrific tuition reimbursement plans for staff and dependents. You have to be here several years for it to kick in, and then they cover a fairly small percentage. (As opposed to other institutions that will give you a full ride.) I guess they don't want the hired help and their families sitting in class next to the bourgie brats.

But that is definitely an option. Mr. Laurel is thinking about law school, and there is a huge pressure for me to find a job at the institution he attends for just that reason. At one highly ranked state school he wants to attend, if I work there he can go to law school for about $1600/year.

[RebelOne]

100. My daughter works for a very prestigious religious school.

It's Barry College in North Miami, FL, a Catholic university (and it's ironic that like me, she is an atheist). She is fortunate that she receives full tuition. And her 2 girls will also receive free tuition even if they attend another college other than Barry. I guess my daughter just lucked out. But, of course, she has been working there for over 10 years. She had to go for her batchelor's degree in order to get a promotion. So, now she is going for her master's to further promotions.

[bikebloke]

72. I tried that

After a year, they had massive lay-offs in which I was ensnared. Then I was hired back as a temp without benefits or free tutition.

I'm glad I'm auto-didactic.

[BlooInBloo]

4. It must be a new SAT - I was only aware of 1600 max - LOL

[maxrandb]

9. There is a new SAT

There are three section worth 800 each, plus an essay graded on a 2-12 scale. Max score is now 2400.

[BlooInBloo]

13. gotcha - thanks! One question....

EDIT: Is there any info on how percentile ranking tracks with raw/weighted score?

So I have some idea what "2000 on the SAT" means comparatively?

[laureloak]

106. They'll continue using the 1600 until the new writing portion

has been proven.

[Mz Pip]

15. It is

The new SAT has 3 tests with a max of 800 for each test.

Anyway. Definitely apply for financial aid using FAFSA. A lot of middle class kid's families qualify. Check into worek study. MAny colleges offer those programs. There are usually many part time jobs offerred on campus. I worked in the dorm cafeteria when I was in college and my older son worked part time in the rec center at his college and at a local video store. My younger son had part time jobs all throughout college.

Take out loans if necessary. Don't not go to college because of the cost. It's doable.Anaother option that lots of kids use is to do 2 years of community college first. It's a lot cheaper.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[BlooInBloo]

23. I did work-study! And flat-out worked....

... I was lucky though, 'cuz a car hit me when I was little, and they gave me enough money for 2 years of school. Only had to come up with second 2 years myself (and parents, of course).

College should be free to the interested and able. It's a fucking investment in the fucking country that pays huge dividends. Sheesh.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

19. Yeah, they added a writing section, which used to be an SAT II.

Most people never even had to take an SAT II. I ended up taking Biology and Writing. Oddly enough, I almost got a perfect score in Biology and slightly below average in Writing. My grades would have suggested the reverse. Honestly, I think it's utter bullshit to have a standardized writing test. Writing can't be judged according to a technical rubrick. The SATs in general are overrated though. A combination of deductive reasoning and understanding how it is scored, makes it easy to increase your score.

[LisaM]

6. I am convinced that the right does not want an educated middle class

I think that higher education should be free, and the fact that it is not is a shame to our nation.

[LiberalEsto]

25. They don't want ANY middle class, period!

serfs & masters

[BlooInBloo]

27. They don't want an educated ANYBODY.....

... they know DAMN well that their policies won't stand a snowball's chance in hell of being implemented in the face of an EDUCATED electorate.

Education is the bane of republicans.

[lastliberalintexas]

34. You and LiberalEsto are both correct

They want neither a middle class nor an educated class. Makes it easier to "govern" that way.

[Pugee]

90. True, kids are not being prepared as in the past.

A friend of mine works at a local junior college and has for years. She told me the other day that she would swear that kids are being "dumbed down" and not meant to go to college. They have no skills at all for classes. She says that she cannot believe how little freshmen can think for themselves, if at all. She says that teaching even basic classes is harder than ever.

[Zookeeper]

53. I also think that the privileged class is trying to...

make life easier for their off-spring by reducing competition for the best education and jobs.

[LisaM]

67. Good point, and one I hadn't thought of, really

We certainly have a prime example of that squatting in the White House at the moment.

[Bill McBlueState]

110. are you familiar with this site?

http://www.freehighered.org/

Lots of interesting numbers to show that it wouldn't be that much of a strain for the government to provide free higher ed.

[Deja Q]

134. An educated populace is a dangerous one.

If your goal is a slave class; separating them and dumbing them down needs to be accomplished.

They're doing a good job at it too.

[wicket]

7. Piles and Piles of debt

The college I attended in the late 90's was 30k a year (I hate to think what it costs now!), including room & board. I got some scholarships, which were just taken off what the college was planning on giving me in grants so the loan amounts were the same. I took the max in federal loans and the rest was made up in private loans.

On edit - I also had a work study job on campus as part of my financial aid package.

[MADem]

8. It's a pity you didn't jump on this ten years ago

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/business/longterm/mym/college/vaprepay.htm

The tuition contracts, available for ninth-graders and younger children, are not a guarantee of admission to any college. But the guarantee that the contract will cover the cost of tuition and fees at any two- or four-year public college in the state will remove parents' fears that they are not saving enough for their child's college education, officials said.

"This will relieve what is a major concern for a lot of parents," said Michael Mullen, deputy director of the Virginia State Council of Higher Education. "This is clearly encouraging parents and students to plan for college in advance. If they've got the financial side taken care of, they'll be encouraged to take care of the academic side as well."

For parents who make a single payment, the cost of a prepaid tuition contract at a four-year college ranges from $14,660 for an infant to $16,699 for a ninth-grader. For those who choose to make monthly payments from now until a child enrolls in college, the cost ranges from $128 a month for an infant to $482 a month for a ninth-grader. The fees are lower for contracts covering tuition at two-year community colleges.

[maxrandb]

16. 10 years ago, we were just getting by

If I had the money to invest in tuition at that time, I would have. Plus the wife and I couldn't figure out the rythym method :), so we had kids earlier than planned.

[Midlodemocrat]

32. We bought those for our kids.

So, essentially, their college is paid for.

[kcass1954]

65. We did that too. Older son's plan was $35/mo for 16 years, and we paid

the younger one's in a single payment. Otherwise, there's just no way we could do it without them going into big-time debt.

[MountainLaurel]

10. Student loans

I forget precisely the extent to which college costs have shifted from grants, scholarships, and paying outright to loans, but it's a huge percentage.

ML, $17K in the whole for graduate school

[mike_c]

11. you have just described one of the primary reasons...

...I didn't go to college until I was in my 30's, and why I have $75,000 in debt that I'll be paying for the rest of my life. I cannot buy a home, despite having a decent salary, tenure, etc., because of the cost of that student loan debt. Still, I'd do it all over again if I had to-- the rewards are worth it, IMO. But there's hardly a day that I don't wonder what my life would be like if I got to keep that 30 percent or so of my salary that goes to pay for those loans. Or what my retirement will be like-- quite possibly homeless.

[JuniperLea]

24. That's why my three started out at a local community college

I didn't want to see them in that kind of debt.

[JuniperLea]

12. Community college is your friend

I have three and they were all in school at the same time. I learned my lesson with the oldest... he went straight into State... wasted a lot of money, especially since he was a CE major. When his brother was ready, he said, Mom! Have him take the basic required stuff at City! Jeez... live and learn. Kid three even took care of all her AP classes at the community. Generally, they have relationships with the local state colleges. Just be sure you confirm they are transferable.

I suggest taking as many transferable classes at a community college. There should be plenty for the first year, maybe two. Less than half the cost.

[LuckyLib]

38. Smart state universities sat down 15+ years ago with local

community colleges and worked out a plan that provides a seamless transition into the four year institution for those students who plan carefully. It's doable. College tuition costs at every public and private university in the country have been increasing at double-digit levels every year for 10 years. It's criminal. And counting on financial aid isn't always possible. Especially if you have "assets" -- equity in your house, savings, etc. Under no circumstances do you want to have savings in your student's name when time comes for applying for college. The system is a mess, and those folks who don't have to worry about it are the same group that's making the big contributions to BushCo.

[JuniperLea]

49. It worked very well for us!

Between the three kids, I figure I saved nearly $80k!

My kids were cool about it too. They knew the value of a dollar and were grateful they didn't have to live on mac & cheese, beans & rice and cans of soup;)

Even though all three were bright as hell and had top grades, AP, the whole deal, no scholarships for them. We made too much money... even with a mortgage, car payments, three dependents... no go. We were persistent and angered. We didn't give up. Community college is the best way. We never had a problem transferring credits.

[LSK]

50. i agree, i went that route

They are perfectly legit. I dont see the NEED to take the SAME base classes at the more expensive big university.

[Donailin]

108. agree! see post 102

slow and steady wins the race

[Midlodemocrat]

14. Check out this link.

http://www.50states.com/college/virginia.htm

You can get your kid into JMU or Tech for much less than $21,000 if you are a Virginia Resident.

[RethugAssKicker]

17. We can't... Send them to a cheaper State shcool for their

undergraduate degree.... Then go all out, if they're capable, for their graduate degree.

[LiberalEsto]

18. Start with 2 years at a community college

then transfer to a state college

I wish my older daughter had done that. She's going to owe $40K or more by the time she finishes.

[maxsolomon]

21. state college, live at home, part time job, loans, don't eat

other than that, i'm glad i don't have kids. i'm still paying off my student loans 10 years after grad school.

OSU is NOT 21K/year tuition.

http://www.osu.edu/news/newsitem1347

For students admitted in Summer 2003 and after, full-time instructional and general fees will be $8,406 for a three-quarter academic year pending trustee approval. For students admitted between Summer 2002 and Spring 2003 and before Summer 2002, full-time instructional fees will be $8,298. These figures include a $15 per quarter Student Activity Fee for all students.

[maxrandb]

37. I don't have it in front of me

but the info we got back with her SAT results showed the cost at OSU as $20,464 per year. That may include room and board though.

I'll get back on when I get home and have the info in front of me.

[maxsolomon]

51. room & board i buy

kids can live off campus cheaper than that.

[Gormy Cuss]

22. They're supposed to go into hock.

The need-based financial aid level has not kept pace with the rising costs for tuition an associated fees and the government-backed loans aren't the bargain that they were at one time. Frankly, for most kids only parents who set up college funds when the youngin's were babies have a prayer of affording it (yes, I know. You didn't have the spare cash to do that when they were babies.)

Since your kids do well in school they should look at private colleges with good endowment away from your area. Oddly enough these places might offer more scholarships than your own state schools. Back in a different generation I went to a private four year college for less cash than it would have cost to go to the state university. I had loans but they were the lowest interest rate government backed variety and the indebtedness wasn't bad after I had been working for a couple of years.

The other option is to shop around for states with cheaper public schools.

[asthmaticeog]

26. Loans.

When everybody starts out in the workplace with a $50- $100,000 debt burden, it's good for employers since everyone with a job is terrified of getting fired, and they're always keenly aware that there are plenty of other debt-burdened educated people looking to take their jobs, so they're docile, they don't rock the boat and they accept weak wages since it's better than defaulting.

[Bill McBlueState]

111. yep, that's pretty much it.

In the 1700s they called it indentured servitude.

[Tyler Durden]

28. Try Canada.

Out of Province/non-resident tuition is about 60% of normal in state tuition here in Michigan for U of M or State, and that's for U of Toronto which is more than Western and McGill in Montreal.

Have your kids learn French and go to McGill on a student visa: they even will get healthcare, and you will likely pay about 50% less than here.

[Dora]

160. Absolutely. I second this motion.

Canada has some great universities with amazing mind power. VERY financially competitive with American universities.

We have 17-18 years to go before Little D goes off to school. I'm going to encourage him to spend a year or two learning a trade (electrical, plumbing, masonry, cooking, etc,). That way he'll always have a marketable skill that is well & truly needed by most people at one time or another. The four-year degree at a university can be tackled after that.

[dysfunctional press]

29. college is not the be-all and end-all...

for instance- the construction and building trades still allow for a decent living- with training thru apprenticeship.
college is more or less a corporate training ground- not really a place to get an education.

[skooooo]

43. uh...well.....

College isn't the be-all and end-all, it's true. But it's a pretty damn good way to prepare for a future where you don't break your back to earn a decent living. Physical labor also isn't too rosy after age 35 or so. And yes, college is a place to "get an education." It's not the only place, but I think you are selling it a bit too short here.

[dysfunctional press]

47. most building trades don't require lots and lots of physical labour...

and i'd much rather have a job that granted me some physical activity, rather than one where i sat in a chair watching my ass grow, and having to pay money to a gym if i want to get enough exercise to stave off a heart attack.
also- a lot of construction unions still have defined benefit plans and very good pension & benefits.
you also get overtime when you work more than 8 hours a day.
and no- college is NOT about getting an education, it's about making grades...huge difference. you can get an education on your own.

[conflictgirl]

64. Increasingly a lot of trades are requiring college education as well

Granted, it's at the community college level, so it's cheaper. But in what I've observed around me (and what my husband discovered when he looked into learning a trade) it's not necessarily a route that enables one to get a decent-paying job while bypassing college.

[dysfunctional press]

71. and college is not necessarily a route to a decent paying job either.

i know a lot of people who make very good livings(not just construction) without having gone to college, and i know a number of people who have advanced degrees who are really struggling.

[conflictgirl]

88. I never said it was

Of course there are options other than college. All I was saying is that the trades are not necessarily a way to get a job without going to college.

I do not teach my kids that college is mandatory to get a good job. But I'm also not going to send the message that college is unnecessary (which was the perhaps unintended message my parents gave me) either. If you're not going to go to college, you need to have a plan. Actually, I think even if you do go to college, you need a plan. The days of being able to get a job good enough to support a family, just by walking into a local factory, are beyond gone. People who don't have some kind of plan of what they will do to support themselves end up just taking whatever they can get, which is an increasingly impossible way to make a living. If you are just taking what you can get and *don't* have a degree, what you can get is going to be a lot more limited. If you (general you, not you specifically) have a career plan and it's not one that requires college, more power to you.

[dysfunctional press]

92. which trades require college?

i know that not all of them do- and when i started, none of them did. i started out as a laborer, shoveling concrete.

i'm guessing that an electrician might require it- they've always required classes for current apprenticeships...it also probably depends on what area of the country it is.

the point is- if you're going to pay upwards of $20,000/yr. for college- just for tuition, you'll come out of school with a pretty big nut hanging over your head- and definitely no promise of a job that would cover it.

the salary you make is not the only thing that counts toward quality of life...you gotta like what you're doing. i was always much more suited to a life in construction than corporate bullshit...even though my ACT scores put me in the top 1% across the board.

[skooooo]

101. Do what you want then -- by the way education is not just a means..

...to a job. Education is a means to a life worth living. If learning how to think and use your mind is just one of those fluffy intangibles that you don't care about, more power to you.

Frankly, I think many people have a real backwards attitude about education. College is "about" whatever you make it about for yourself. If it makes you feel better to think it's just a silly place to get a piece of paper, well, live long and prosper, I guess.

Education is gold, gold, gold. Even if it doesn't make you "rich" in the material sense.

[dysfunctional press]

156. you don't have to go to college to get an education...

OR use your mind.

maybe someday you'll learn that.

and on a like note- just having a college degree in no way means that a person is educated.

[BlooInBloo]

58. I'm not aware of ANYONE in the history of THE WORLD....

... who has said that college is the "be-all and end-all" (or the be all to end all, for that matter).

So were you (a) constructing a strawman position that no one actually holds, or can you (b) point me to someone you were referring to, who clearly holds this position?

Thanks!

[dysfunctional press]

68. ummm it's a "phrase"...

geez...get yourself an education. :eyes:

[BlooInBloo]

73. That's cool. So you were merely referring to a completely fictional...

.... position that nobody holds.

That would make me wonder what the point of your remark was, except that it's likely to be as fictional as the position itself.

Thanks for clarifying tho!

[dysfunctional press]

75. no- college is NOT the be-all and end-all

when it comes to preparing for a career/life.

there are many other options...:hi:

[BlooInBloo]

78. Just like "God DAMN water is wet!"....

... Nobody every said otherwise.

Congratulations, Captain Obvious - you're batting 1.000


EDIT: Improved choice of example.

[dysfunctional press]

79. not an expression i'm familiar with...

be-all, end-all...THAT'S an expression i've heard a number of times...

i don't understand why you have so much of a problem with it...:shrug:

(maybe a college education would help)

[BlooInBloo]

80. LOL! All right! Who's filming the "Priceless" commercial! lolol

[dysfunctional press]

82. well...i guess it's after 5 o'clock someplace...

gotta figure someone would be pui...

[BlooInBloo]

69. Wrong branch self-delete.

[JVS]

94. The vast numbers willing to fork over $25K per year speaks louder...

than any mouth you may or may not have heard.

[Yollam]

113. Our whole society defines it as the be-all, end-all.

Every parent seems to think their kids must go to college, even though half of the kids probably are not suited to it. So many of us went and got liberal arts degrees that didn't get us anywhere in the professional world.

I look around at all my college-educated friends - some of them are doing well, but a lot are working at Borders and trying to pay student loan payments, but the people we were taught to look down on as teens - the "grease monkeys", the electricians, the plumbers, etc. are making EXCELLENT money. I would never discourage my child from going into one of the trades. Those jobs are highly skilled and worthy of respect, and after a work day, they can go home to a comfortable house and read books and learn without a cloud of debt over their heads.

I went to college with no idea what I wanted to do, no concept of how to deal with all the sudden freedom of the insanity of all the partying, and I quit after a year and a half. 3 years later I finally went back and got a degree when I was old enough to know what I wanted to do, and had the self-discipline to do it.

I think it's terrible how we throw kids into college regardless of what their aptitudes are. It's also terrible how our society respects only wealth, but not work.

[StellaBlue]

150. Totally agree with your post. nt

[raccoon]

139. Thank you! And jobs such as electrician and plumbing can't

go to Mexico or China, and are well-paid.

[endarkenment]

30. A modest new car

Go to private university and buy an upper mid range new car every year. Also, if you are a resident of a major metro region on either coast, and you own your own home, you probably have too much income to qualify for any assistance other than loans.

Welcome to america - lots of taxes, not much in the way of service.

[RedEarth]

31. Unless they plan on living at home, you also need to plan on

another $10-15,000 for room/board/spending cash/misc. expense.

I know exactly what you're talking about, since I have two children in college right now. Fortunately, my son is a grad assistant and gets his tuition covered(but not fees, which at many schools is just as much as tuition) and a stipend, but still comes up a little short each month. My daughter will be a Jr. and she too has an academic scholarship and works about 15 hours/wk., but still needs substantial amount of help.

The cost of a college education is outrageous and will only get more expensive in the future. Hopefully, there will be a payoff.

[wiggs]

33. The interest rate for student loans from feds is now over 8%, up from 4%

They are making money on student loans under this administration. Disgusting. Used to be that a student loan was fairly inexpensive, in order to encourage education. Not now.

I went to a college funding seminar, and there were many interesting things I learned. If you have a senior going next year, then THIS year is the year they look at your finances to determine how much you can afford. The lower your income and assest, the more aid you might get (grants and/or loans). A counselor can help you determine if you need to do anything with assests and cash.

I have twins...just finished their junior years. Big trouble for me. If they both stay in state and go to a university, I won't be getting away with less than 45,000 per year between the two of them. Many private schools are exceeding 50,000 per year per student in costs. Oddly, if you can demonstrate financial need, private schools end up being more affordable that public because they can offer more aid of one kind or another.

Those posters who state that this administration is not encouraging middle and lower class education have it right. Who is talking about it aside from DU?

[maxrandb]

48. That's why I fricking hate Republicans

They'll bitch until their frickin hair hurts about "taxes" and "tax and spend" liberals, yet when interest on student loans double under their leadership, they'll say, "stop bitchin', what you think you're entitled to a lower interest rate?". They'll look at someone paying 4% interest on a loan as some who is "sucking at the teet of the taxpayer", yet another $6,000,000 for Dick Cheney is AOK.

Not to mention the fact that they don't seem to realize that by giving that kid a 4% loan instead of 8% so he and his parents can afford college will pay off in the end. They get back a more intelligent, skilled and prosperous taxpayer in the future. Of course, then they'll just call him an "educated elite".

Since the only way they can stay in power is to keep America stupid, don't look for any help from the Repubican controlled government for help with education costs.

[bleedingheart]

85. when I graduated in '91...the loan rates were 8% as well

only certain types of loans had lower rates.

However today more republicans are trying to strangle loans altogether and eliminate grants..it is sick.

[gizmo1979]

109. you have 2 weeks left to combine

loans at the lower rate.July 1 it goes into affect.

[conflictgirl]

35. I have no idea. I worry about the future for my own kids' education.

My husband and I are in school now in our 30s. Our parents couldn't afford to send us 15 years ago so here we are. I hope our kids won't be in the same situation. But I don't know what else to do. We are barely getting by already (hence being back in school) so I can't imagine we'll be able to pay their tuition. I started out at a community college with grants and I'm still going to finish undergrad over $20,000 in debt.

It seems like a college degree is much less of a sure ticket to a good job than it used to be, but without one, things look even worse. I guess the only solution is a lot of debt, if you're not wealthy.

[ray of light]

36. good luck. It's impossible. Both parents and children are

going to be saddled with the long debt.

[durrrty libby]

42. All this doom and gloom will not help the op

I’ve been a single parent for many years and I am in the process of getting my last kid through college without the debt

The first 2 years they go to a local 2 year college, and then transfer to a state university.

It has worked well for us, and has cut the cost by thousands. The kid has an associate degree after 2 years, works at a decent paying job part time and helps defer the cost for the remainder of his education. We also applied and got state and federal grants.

We buy used textbooks when possible. The cost of books is an absolute outrage and despicable scam. $300.00 is not uncommon for 1 book.

I’ve also found great savings for books online.


Anyway, it can be done with a little creativity

[ray of light]

163. sorry. doom and gloom is difficult to give up when we're in the same spot

BUT I know there is a used textbook site through amazon too. I just can't remember the name. That helps too.

[ray of light]

168. Here's hope...(hopefully making up for my blunder before.)

Nolies32fouettes is in this scholarship contest. (She's got an amazining blog with over 25 pages of main thread posts--more than 150 if I counted right. (That's a lot of hard work to win the scholarship. I applaud her efforts!)

http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/nolies32fouettes



Anyways, while perusing her site, I saw this posted over there:


http://www.progressiveu.org/171531-progressive-u-editor-scheduled-to-appear-on-bets-the-center


Hope it helps.

[skooooo]

39. First two years at community college...

..then transfer for the last two. I think many people find that a cheaper option than all 4 years at a university.

[SmokingJacket]

40. My husband and I went to pricey schools, though our parents

were NOT AT ALL wealthy, because back in the old days (80's) there were large need-based scholarships and cheap loans -- for me it was about one-third scholarship, one-third low interest student loan, and one-third cash, and I had a work study job for my books and spending money. It was STILL not easy to pay for college, and it took me ten years to pay off my loan, but it was totally POSSIBLE.

God knows how I'm going to pay for my own kids -- I feel really guilty that they might not get as good an education as we did.

[The Anti-Neo Con]

41. With how things are going, education may be irrelevant in the future.

That's what the GOP wants.

They are accomplishing that through outsourcing and insourcing via H1-B's. If you think H1-B's are only an IT thing, then you're wrong. They've spread through the legal, healthcare, and engineering occupations. People who go to school for these are the ones who are going to be hurt here in the near future. Corporations in these fields say "Why hire an American lawyer for $80,000 a year when I can hire one from Pakistan for $30,000? Why hire an American anesthesiologist for $115,000 a year when I can hire one from Indonesia for $40,000? Why hire an American engineer for $55,000 a year when I can hire one from China for $25,000?"

It's almost now as if graduates are getting out of school having to compete for jobs where you have to recite "Would you like fries with that?" 100 times a day. I agree with what one above poster said, it's better to learn a trade, and join a union nowadays. I went to college and got a bachelor's degree, but all it got me was jobs that pay $7.00/hr. with no benefits. I just recently started as a carpenter's apprentice, and now I get $15 an hour starting & great benefits.

[skooooo]

45. Your bachelor's degree..

...may not seem all that helpful now, but as time goes on I think you'll find it opens doors for you. I don't think of education as just a means to earn more money. Often that happens anyway, but whether you realize it now or not, that degree might well open doors for you when you least expect it.

[lectrobyte]

44. $21K sounds high for Virginia Tech. You're out of state, or is that

for two kids? I only ask because this page
http://www.admiss.vt.edu/miscpages/costs.html
shows these costs per year:

In State Out of State
Tuition $5,450 $17,406
Fees 1,523 1,643

with an estimated $900 for books, and 4,700–7,020 for room and board.

[maxrandb]

54. No. Of the four that she was interested in

the average was approx $21,000. VA Tech was much cheaper, but William and Mary was much more expensive.

I'm military stationed in VA, but a legal resident of OH. We qualify for in-state in either VA or OH.

Also, the total cost I'm quoting includes room and board (I think).

[lectrobyte]

66. See my edit on the previous post. Still not cheap, but $12K sounds

better. I'd suggest looking into things like co-op programs (I worked a semester, then went to scool a semester on one of those), loans, scholarships, and part-time jobs. If the kid is motivated, there will be a way. I did all of the above. My backup plan was to go to work (save money) & community college for two years, then transfer to 4 year college if I'd not been able to swing the $$$ for 4-year college initially.

Oh, and who says parents are obligated to pay for it all anyway?

[Matariki]

46. 18 years of saving a $100 bucks a month

how much does that add up to, including interest?

i watched certain relatives fritter away money on tivo, new furniture, expensive knick-knacks for the house, the latest electronics, etc, etc. when it came time for their kids to go to college, well, there's no money.

i wonder how many people that happens to?

that said, i firmly believe in publicly funded college education and health care - like a civilized country that cares about it's future...

[maxsolomon]

52. lets see

12x100 = 1200, x18 = 21600.

with interest, lets say $25k.

about 1 year.

[HughBeaumont]

55. That's today's dollars.

So about 3/4 to 1/2 a year's worth 18 years from now.

[dsc]

138. That is quite low

I don't have my calculator on me but I would be willing to bet that we are talking somewhere between 50 and 75k depending on the interest rate. Compound interest works wonders. on edit I am a bit high admittedly looking at the calculator provided by another poster, though it was mentioned for monthly and that should make it higher than 43k but not as much higher than this post would say.

[frankenforpres]

86. more like $43,000

and that is using a modest return like 7%


http://www.moneychimp.com/calculator/compound_interest_calculator.htm

[maxsolomon]

162. no wonder i'm poor

i don't do compounding well

[Ksec]

56. Identical problem

I have a son graduating high school next year, and Im fretting on how were gonna pay for it. I believe he will end up in Ohio State or maybe Kent State , and Kent has an extension here which would mean he could live at home and get through his first two years. Maybe by that time we could get a Dem in office that could help get more grants out here, hopefully. If the repubs win again , kiss education goodbye. For all our children.

[maxrandb]

70. I wish soneone would make the argument

As a government, we should be able to support low interest student loans, say 1 - 4%. For me, the government investing some money in college education is smart.

- Say it's 15K a year. If the government paid for all of it, that's 60K.

- Statistically, the person with the college degree will earn more money. Extrapolate that extra money over this person lifetime, and you more than make up that 60K investment in increased tax revenue. Not to mention the contributions this person is making to our society and economy.

I firmly believe that education is an investment that pays for itself

[Breeze54]

57. If middle Amerika can't afford it,

can you imagine the up-hill climb for the poor?
:shrug:

[devilgrrl]

59. The same way Republicans run the country: Borrow and Spend

eom

[pitohui]

60. the kids will have to get loans like everybody else

it is no longer realistic for parents to plan to pay for a child's college, you have to plan for your retirement first

ask your financial advisor but they all say the same thing

no one will or can lend money to you in your retirement if you are not saved/ invested for retirement, you will be older, with less of a future for earning money

however, many financial institutions will exist for your college age child to borrow money for an education because she is younger, with a whole future ahead of her for earning money

you need to be honest w. your children as young as they will understand that it is not possible for you to earn that kind of income to pay for their college -- MOST parents are in the same situation, because "real" incomes just don't pay that much -- they need to explore EVERY avenue for getting scholarship moneys, etc. to cut down on the size of their loan

an example, one of my young relatives is a big strong young man v. good at sport, but his parents wish to discourage his involvement with sport, because they are intellectuals, i pointed out that instead, as his marks are v. high, that he can do BOTH and if he can, he SHOULD, because the sport may help pay his way and keep him out of years of debt, so even the "smart" kid should not be afraid or ashamed to pursue a sport, music, etc. if there is talent in that direction

now if the sport is hurting the academics, okay, but any child who has multiple talents should be encouraged to pursue them all and see what help comes because sometimes the silly stuff, like sport, can actually offer a better scholarship than, say, the dead language studies

[maxrandb]

61. I want to thank all that are giving tips and advice

I think that we simply must do something to help bring down the cost of college, or we're going to end up with only an elite class that will be able to afford it.

I like the idea of doing the 2 year Community College route. In fact, one of our friends has a son that was doing poorly at a state university, and returned to Community College to work on bringing up his GPA. He wants to go back to state, but his parents are like; "you probably need to stay here for a bit".

I'm not looking to return to the 1950's, but wasn't pretty standard that parents would get their kids through college financially if the kids wanted to go?

I think we can be creative enough to swing it, but I don't think it would be wise to mortgage the house to do it. I'd like to be able to leave my kids a little something more than debt.

[pitohui]

77. no in the 50s the gov't paid for college -- GI bill

college was not a reality for most people until the 1950s and it became possible for men to attend college in the 50s due to the GI bill, which is why so many families, like mine, the ww2 vet or the korean war vet would be the first person of his family to attend and graduate college

you ever notice that of women of that generation it is only the richer, sorority girl crowd who had parents pay for college, the women of middle middle or lower middle background started the trend of going back to college later, in the late 60s or the 70s, because they were supported by husbands

having parents be able to pay for kid's college was a really brief moment in history that has now passed for most people, i think it most happened between the 60s through the mid 80s or so

by the way, you keep speaking of leaving your children debts, you can't leave children "debt," debt is not heritable, live your life, when you die, your estate pays any debts that can be paid and then the debts are expunged, your children will not be charged for any unpaid debts that you leave behind

in any case, w. modern lifespans, what you plan to "leave" your children is irrelevant, when you die at 90, even if you had left behind a trillion dollars, it won't make much difference to their life, since they'll already be retirement age themselves! don't worry about what you "leave," if you can give someone something, give it now, if you can't, live your life to the best of your ability and have no guilt

[Reverend_Smitty]

62. They can't...

My dad is a single father and he had to take out a couple mortgages to pay for my college despite me having to take out loans and end up 20,000 in debt after 4 years...and I had in-state tuition. It's insane!

[newportdadde]

63. They borrow out of their ass.

Saw a girl on Deal or No Deal(yeah I know :silly:) who had borrowed 200k... 200k for school... DAMN.

Anyways, have your child work a part time job, hold back from the money the do earn in highschool or allowance and put it in a college fund for them.

Go with state schools. Try to get some starting credits via special programs in the highschool or community college. We are going to STRONGLY encourage our sons if they want to persue college to start at a community college. We have one about 3 miles from our house. We have started saving for them 150 a month, we have some time though 2yr old and two 4 months old.

[aikoaiko]

74. State univerisities are free in GA if you have a B average, :)

Some state are trying to get it done. Truthfully, your 4 schools are upper tier, which is a great accomplishment for you and yours, but elite educations have never been cheap.

[cassandra uprising]

81. Live at home, do internships, go to community college and

wait until you're older and qualify as a non-traditional student (you'll get more loans and grants) and then apply to an in state school. That was the only way I could afford to go to put myself through college.

[ceile]

83. Loans, loans and more loans

I fully believe that I will never be able to pay off my college loans.

[bleedingheart]

84. My sister's two sons are at Carnegie Mellon for engineering and

comp sci...

It is costing $43,000 per year for each of them. $170,000 in college fees for each kiddo..

Now each young man gets around $20,000+ in scholarships.

My sister put enough away for each kid to get 2 years paid by her...(40K each)...but the rest they are loaning...and she is in the solid middle class...but she started putting money away when they were tiny tots...

The eldest boy on the Dean's list and has an internship with Amazon.com...he is very smart...the younger boy is mowing grass this summer since he just finished his freshman year. (edit..he is smart too but he doesn't have experience for an internship yet)

She has one more to go...and without jinxing her daughter...she has a tentative scholarship offer to attend a Big East Conference school on an athletic scholarship...but it will only cover about 3 years out of the 5 year program she wants...

[Ilsa]

87. Can they spend the first 30 hours (roughly) at a local, community

college and then transfer? I know there are no guarantees, but check with their desired universities to see what courses they might accept. That might save you a year of tuition.

And then there's living expenses.

Middle class folks can't afford to send their kids to college without scholarship help or something.

[pitohui]

116. first 30 hours should be advanced placement courses

instead of taking a class take a test

i'm serious, you can save a small fortune these days this way, but the high school age child should be seriously motivated to learn and reminded that the tests that save him 15 or 30 hours of classwork could save him thousands and thousands of dollars in student loans that he will have to repay if he has to take the classwork in college instead

i mean really is there ANY reason whatsoever that people are taking ALGEBRA classes in college and paying college prices? or freshman english composition?

the child should be a partner in this, and should be given every reason to be motivated, public high school is still free and should be taken advantage of to the utmost
by encouraging the child to seek out advanced courses wherever possible

i myself got out of a good 12 hours that way, even back in the 70s, i know younger people who got out of a good 30 hours

[Igel]

89. A lot of the suggestions are great.

Community college, off-campus living, and in-state colleges. But that's not all.

Always apply to a couple of private colleges, if your kid's profile is good enough. GPA, or SAT, or personal stuff can be dinged, but if two are great, some private schools will cough up money. That's a silent secret in college attendance: at UCLA in the '90s when I was on lots of committees, the administration bitched that they really were moving to a two-class school. Really low-income kids got lots of grants, and had a low graduation rate; when grants were 'cut', they typically reduced the income level needed for getting them. Upper-class kids had their parents pay. Those in between got loans, and 'in between' has expanded a bit in recent years. At private schools where most kids are wealthy, sometimes middle-class folk wind up being "low income" for aid purposes.

Search extensively for outside funding. Talk to somebody on every campus; every campus has some financial aid guru that knows where to apply to, and there are scads of electronic databases for such things. Maybe an essay will be required, but a lot of financial aid goes unused. Much is earmarked for certain groups. I once saw a scholarship for women of Armenian descent, neither of whose parents had attended college and who wanted to major in, I think it was, social work, and who had to apply before they were juniors. I talked to the officer in charge of the scholarship and he said nobody had applied for it for over decade; they could waive some requirements--an Armenian man, or something akin to social work, or if one parent had attended some college. Sometimes 'close' to the requirements is good enough.

Summer and part-time work also helps. For many kids, it's better than *no* part-time work. The excess time won't be spent studying; it'll be spent partying or slacking, at least that's true for most kids. Instead of yielding money, it consumes money; and the kid is no more or less tired the next day for a test. I had a summer job that also let me work over winter break. Some financial aid officers can also swap out loans for work-study money late in the process when it's clear that they've mis-allocated the funds. Even if you think you know how things are a month before school starts, you can still get things changed if you approach the Fin Aid munchkins the right way.

A lot of kids profit from taking a year off and working; it sobers them a bit, and makes them into realists. Colleges don't care; once admitted, some allow you to delay attendance for a year, or you can go on leave for a year mid-stream. It can be a bonus on the resume after graduation, even having a grunt job to provide a real work reference. Believe it or not, it also cuts expenses: the kid learns that money matters, and will reduce his expenses for luxuries to reduce his loan burden. I found that UCLA awarded me far more money in aid for 'necessary' expenses than I actually needed, and I didn't need the full amount of the loans.

Check to see if Ohio has reciprocity agreements with any out of state schools (I'm assuming you're in Ohio ... Browns as your avatar). Oregonians and Washingtonians could attend each other's public schools in small numbers for in-state tuition. Public schools sometimes have agreements with private schools nearby; at one public school I attended, I could take some classes taught at the private school and *not* at my school, for no additional money. Not enough for a major, but it added value to the public school degree.

Insist on four years to degree, two years if your kid takes all the comm. college classes s/he can. A lot of kids change majors on a whim, take too many 'fun' courses to progress to degree as quickly as they should, or simply don't take enough courses per term to graduate in four years. The expense for the fifth year has to be really well justified.

Also talk to your kid and judge him/her honestly: I went to two schools for my undergrad degree. I liked languages and science. I got a scholarship to a small, private school, I loved, but it really only had engineering; I discovered I intensely hated chem eng when I figured out what it entailed. The second school, no scholarship, was a monstrous impersonal behemoth I hated (but I liked my majors). But at some point, though, I simply needed out, could quickly wrap up one major, so I did; I shorted the second major by two courses, and the minor by one course. For the same money, I could have gone to a different school I would have liked, with majors I liked.

And finally, keep the value of the degree in mind. A more expensive school may well pay for itself in the intermediate run, because the degree from the school or from a given department is worth more on the job market, or it's a nearly sure ticket into a grad/professional program. Of course, the kid's likely to learn more, too; highly ranked departments, we like to think, have good reps for a reason. In that case, loans may be worth it. Going to an expensive private engineering college and majoring in their sub-par philosophy degree is a losing proposition, but so is going to a cheaper in-state school if *their* philosophy degree gets your kid nowhere.

Good luck.

[AngryAmish]

91. Make them caddy

Then college is free.

[laureloak]

107. Can you explain please?

[AngryAmish]

115. Evans Scholarship

Look it up. It put me through college.

[laureloak]

164. Thanks. I see the program isn't available in the south and

is for one year only.

My son (HS Junior) tried to get hired as a caddie but they must be 18 yrs old here in Pinehurst, NC.

[handsignals4theblind]

93. It's simple cut the Pentagon-420+ billion dollar $$Welfare budget.

America your public schools, as well as ours are in terrible shape.

How will North America rise to the challenge - of the Race to the bottom in global competition without a high skilled, adaptable, well educated citizen?


We got the nukes---that nasty trump card won't work!

[SoCalDem]

95. have one child..save $100 a month from birth

and cross your fingers:)

at 4% after 18 years you would have $31,727.00 (compounded quarterly)

maybe not enough, but it's a good start:)

[JVS]

96. Join the Navy. All the perks of the other military branches...

but you get to be on a boat away from whatever quagmire is going on, thus minimizing your chance to meet up with an improvised explosive device. Be careful when in port though, don't want to get bombed like that ship in the mid-east a few years back.

[Lars39]

105. There have been 'boots on the ground' Navy in Iraq.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

126. I know a Navy guy in his 2nd tour of standing in the middle of the desert.

Back home, he races sailboats. My friend and I mailed him an inflatable Smirnoff canoe we won at the bar (he was her racing partner). Even though he doesn't have much use for it, it did cheer him up.

The Navy is not a safe option in Bush's war.

[notadmblnd]

98. I'm doing it one class at a time

at a community college at that. If they want to go at least to get the required classes out of the way, you might want to consider that. The community college I attend charges residents $55 per credit hour, and you can transfer up to 62 credits to State University. I find most of my books on Amazon usually for a fraction of the cost of the college bookstore.

[DireStrike]

103. I pay about 4000/year at a city college

One of the cheapest/"best value" colleges in the country, they say. Seems to suck very hard. I'd love to go to a better college but it's not possible. Got a 1460/1600 on my SATs, though my grades were mediocre, so it's really just the money that holds me back.

I live at home with mom, no car, etc.

[OhioChick]

104. Ridiculous, isn't it?

One of mine wants to go to Case Western Reserve, which is about 30 grand a year. :crazy:

[spooky3]

112. Where are you getting these numbers?

Are you including room and board?

Have you thought about how much an apartment and food, etc., would be without regard to whether the child is in school? It would be a substantial amount of money.

According to this article, the TOTAL cost of a year at VA Tech, INCLUDING room and board, is $10500, with a freeze for 2006-2007 and financial aid for kids from families making less than $75000.

http://www.wavy.com/Global/story.asp?S=3911548

The article also points out that students from families with lower incomes (e.g., $40000 or less) get full scholarships at U VA and William and Mary.

From the OSU website, in-state tuition is about $8000 in Columbus and less at regional campuses. Room and board is another $7203.

http://www-afa.adm.ohio-state.edu/undergrad/admissions/costs.asp

[pitohui]

117. it probably is including room and board

however, keep in mind that if the child is not in college, then the parent is probably not going to allow her to live at home in the basement w.out taking a job and buying her own food, and if she moves out, she'll pay her own rent

whereas the child whose work is going to school will still need to eat even though a job will not be practical and a part-time job will probably hurt her academics and social chances while providing relatively low pay to make up for that damage

so i think the parent is fair to understand that room and board cost money

[maxrandb]

131. From the info provided with my kids SAT results

She listed 4 colleges she was interested in when she took the SAT. When you get the results back, there is a section that tells you whether your scores meet the average of those accepted, the percentage of those accepted from the applications submitted, etc.

One of the blocks is "estimate financial cost" per year (not including material, i.e books,etc). I haven't been able to find where they come up with these numbers, but I'm assuming that it includes tuition and room and board.

OSU was listed as $21,654, W$M was listed as $27,850, UVA was listed at $18,500, and VA Tech was listed at $14,500.

Assuming that both of my kids went to the cheapest school listed and the prices didn't rise, it would cost me, or them, $120,000 just to get them through college, not counting books and materials.

It's insane!

[spooky3]

158. I sympathize but I think you're being a bit unfair to the universities

when you are counting room and board as if it were tuition. Paying for an apartment and for the other costs of living such as meals whether the kids were in school or not is a big expense but that is NOT tuition. In fact, living in a dorm is a lot more economical than having dad and mom pay for an apartment and your meals while you are starting in a job somewhere. Those living costs are a given regardless of being at a university. But a good way to reduce them is to have the kids live at home if they can take classes in your town.

If you are in-state, you are paying much less than half of the actual costs of instruction and research that makes that instruction top tier at state universities. The rest of the actual costs is paid by state subsidies (although these have GREATLY decreased in the past 15 years), the contributions of alumni and donors, the much higher tuition charged to out-of-state and foreign students, grants earned by faculty, etc., etc. University educations are a bargain given the payback one receives in higher salary over the course of a lifetime (plus the non-quantifiable value of the education itself and the experience of going to school). That is why so many students from all over the world want to come here and not vice versa.

[Kittycat]

114. 10 years since I graduated... I'm still paying.

And will be for some time. I went through many years not able to pay my loans, and had to take deferments. My payments are $185/mo, and go up to $250 next year.

ETA: And I went to state school.

[Iowa]

119. Three suggestions....

1) $21,000 seems high. Example: South Dakota State University last year had a total sticker price of roughly $11,000 (tuition, fees, room, & board). This included a brand new air conditioned dorm with elevators and a 2 room suite with private bath for 4 girls, excellent meal plan, beautiful new student center, and plenty of on and off campus jobs for those who want to work. Students can easily graduate in 4 years and there are very few teaching assistants - professors teach almost all classes and are quite accessible. There are good deals out there.

2) Many don't realize this: If you file a 1040A instead of a 1040, you do NOT need to disclose your assets on the FAFSA. This would require that you take the standard deduction, so if you have a mortgage it probably wouldn't work for you, but for some of us DUers who are older and have no mortgage - it could be a slam dunk. It's a little known wrinkle in the system that could reap benefits for a few. I haven't been in the position to do it yet, but I mention it in case someone here can use it.

3) Nix the cars if your kids have them. It never ceases to amaze me how many college kids have their own car while racking up monster debt to pay for college. It's usually an unnecessary extravagance, yet everyone seems to think junior needs a car.

I have a child in college. I will pay roughly $20,000 TOTAL for the 3.5 years she'll take to get her BA (she obtained enough credit by passing out of some classes and taking classes in high school to finish in three and a half years). She will use her earnings from work during high school and college to pay roughly $15,000 herself. Scholarships and grants will cover the rest or come very close to it. She'll have a BA debt free - won't borrow a dime. It IS doable. This will be my second and she's over half-way through. The oldest was even easier and has her PhD now. I doubt she would have gone on to an advanced degree if she had a big undergrad debt.

[DarkTirade]

120. I sure as hell couldn't.

And it didn't help that the idiots who did the class schedules for my program at my school made required classes starting at 8 in the morning and ending at 10 in the evening, pretty much negating any chance I had at finding a job to pay for whatever my student loan didn't cover. (which was just about everything except tuition.)
So first I dropped down to part-time and changed my major... then I ended up dropping out entirely.

[TheModernTerrorist]

121. 23 year old college grad here...

This is my personal advice...
There really is no way to pay for college without student loans, unless you're super rich, or you get a full-ride scholarship to some school. SO, what they need to understand is that they will be incurring a large amount of debt on themselves, and whether or not you help by taking parent loans out to help, possibly on you as well.
**Help them plan financially**
That's THE most important thing you can do. Get estimates on living expenses, tuition, etc, and sit down with a financial aid counselor, and go over everything.

My personal experience... I went to Michigan State University, and it was a little over $12,000/year... something like that. First year was paid in part by scholarships, grants, out-of-pocket money (from both my open house for graduation and my parents paid about $2000), and the rest was loans. Sophomore year, I became a Resident Assistant, which paid for my room and board, and my tuition was covered by scholarships (so no loans there), junior and senior year I lived off-campus and worked my ass off to pay for my apartment, so my tuition was covered by scholarships and some loans. Loans also helped me out when I became unemployed for a few months.

The important thing is to sit and discuss it financially, and make sure they understand what they're getting into.
Where there's a will, there's a way... and that's how I got through college. I'm sure they can do the same.

[Selatius]

123. This is doable, but not everybody has a will of iron

The problem with college education in America is that standards are not high enough, and it becomes a little more apparent when you study European education systems, and on top of that, we do a relatively poor job of helping students through college. You have higher college attendance rates in other industrialized countries as a result than you do in the US.

When there is a will, there is a way. If you took 100 people and gave them the option of going to college with all expenses paid, let's say only 50 of them take the opportunity, and of the 50, 25 make it through. If you took the same group of people and instead told them they can go to college except that they'd have to work their ass off and take on 7 percent interest loans to cover the short-falls, chances are you won't see 25 come out at the end. You'd see a number that's lower than that, perhaps much lower. That number would show only those had the determination to see it through. The rest washed out.

On the international scale, this is unsustainable as other 1st world powers subsidize the students' education and achieve higher graduation rates and a larger pool of skilled labor to draw from. That must be corrected if the US wants to avoid become a 2nd tier power in the industrialized world because it has to import engineers and scientists from abroad to plug up the manpower shortages.

[TheModernTerrorist]

165. which is exactly my point

Look at the colleges they're looking into. That's where the KIDS want to go, not where the parents would like them to go. They WANT to go, thus they should be guided towards achieving those goals. I'm just simply saying that, financially, it IS doable, but it's not easy, and they need to understand what they're getting themselves into. Often times, this will force them to either get their ass into gear to really make their preferred education happen, or it will force them to look deeper, and maybe discover that either A) that college really ISN'T for me, or B) there are other cheaper alternatives that are just as good as attending a large university. Whatever the choice, it will keep to ground everything in realism, and not sky-high hopes & dreams. If they really want to go to a $21,000/yr school, they will find a way to make it happen. If not, they will find an alternative. Either way, it will be productive for them.

[Hippo_Tron]

122. Virginia is an expensive state for college

I think in-state for LSU is like $2000 per semester and you get in free with TOPS if you have a 3.0 GPA in high school. Of course UVA is getting to the level of Ivy League competativeness so I can understand why the tuition is so high.

There are many states with much more reasonably priced state schools but unfortunately it's much easier if you live in those states.

[rman]

124. Will cutting student-loan interest rates by half solve the problem?

I doubt it.

Democrats unveil platform: "New Direction for America"
SOURCE: Office of House minority leader Nancy Pelosi
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1435328

[degreesofgray]

125. short answer: they can't

and that's why my generation, including me, is starting out heavily in debt.

[JCMach1]

128. Send them to study in India

No kidding... great schools, English Language, Dead cheap...

Plus you get the joy of reversing the outsourcing...

[siouxsiecreamcheese]

130. community college first 2 years

thats the best & cheapest way. then transfer to a bigger school for a higher degree. thats how I did it. Also, have the kids pay for thier own school down the line. I'll never understand parents that will continue paying off a student loan when their kid is in his 30's. to me, thats selfishness on the kid's part.

[maxrandb]

132. Thanks to all that have given valuable advice

I guess since this generated over 130 responses, the cost of a college education is on a lot of peoples minds.

Thanks again for all the valuable info and links. DU has been a big help, and has given my family and I a great deal to look into and research regarding this issue.

I thank you from the bottom of my heart.

[Deja Q]

133. And for fields being offshored to countries that don't like us.

[izzybeans]

135. debt debt and more debt. A lifetime of debt. That's what I'm looking

at.

[Hosnon]

136. Move to Georgia and maintain a B average...state pays for it. nt

[mcar]

140. Look for schools with need blind admission policies

The money is out there and that's one way to get it. People shouldn't discourage their children from applying to the colleges of their choice, regardless of cost. There is a good chance the money will be there.

DS just finished his freshman year at one of the best, and most expensive, private liberal arts colleges in the country. We had no money to send him but told him he could apply wherever he liked as long as he applied to a few state schools as well. If the money was there, he could take his pick. Davidson was his first choice. When we met with the admissions counselor he told us that if DS was admitted, they would fund it. They did.

We are paying no more than what we would have paid for room and board at a state school. Davidson College doesn't allow its students to take out large loans so DS's loan is quite small. His tuition and expenses are covered by alumni grants and some scholarship funds. It's all based on income and need.

We are solidly middle class but perhaps on the lower end. My SO is a public school teacher and I am a part time editor so we just get by.

You can go online at collegeboard.com and find the links to FAFSA - the site where you enter your income information for qualification for loans and grants. It'll tell you what your expected contribution will be.

Also, there are tons of scholarships out there. The only problem with them is finding the time to fill them out.

Your kids can get a good college education. Good luck

[Marie26]

143. Tons & tons of loans.

Good luck.

[shrike]

145. One of the joys of not having children (cough, cough)

is that you have the opportunity to help out sibs that do.

My niece will be attending one of the universities you mentioned. I can afford to pay the tuition for at least two years, possibly three. She also plans to live at home for the first two years.
I know this doesn't help you much, but if I had children, I'd try and find the situation where they could live at home, take public transport to school (if possible), get a part-time job and then work during the summers. Try NOT to go the college loan route, if at all possible. I know that sounds unrealistic in this day and age, but I managed to get out of school debt-free, unlike all my friends, and have been grateful ever since.

[Eurobabe]

147. Take out loans like the rest of us. and go massively into debt

then get out and not be able to find a job that pays enough to cover your student loan. Welcome to Bu$h's 'Murica, no more Pell Grants, high interest on Stafford Loans. Me, I am approaching 50 and have a $53K grad student loan that I will be paying on until I croak.

My youngest is going to grad school in the fall, and is looking at a total of $83K in loans for two year program. Really nice way to start out life huh.

I think only the rich fucks were meant to me edumucated.

[jbnow]

151. OK, some tips

You say it's not Harvard and so on. Too bad actually. Schools like Harvard Stanford and Yale have changed their tuition policy for lower income people and it is free tuition for families under 40,000 or 60,000 depending on the school.

Of course I don't know what your income is, but if they might qualify for financial aid there are things to consider. Perhaps the most important is that you are better off at a bigger state university despite higher costs. My son decided on a smaller one thinking it would save money. We got the financial aid letter back saying that while our need was XXX all he got from them was nothing. He was getting the scholarships he'd have gotten anywhere he went. But they didn't offer him work study or the lower interest loans, nothing.

Two years later he really wanted to go to U of Michigan and he was accepted. We got the letter from them that said he could get work study, low interest loans and a BIG grant. I was amazed. I called.
As it turns out big universities have more money and richer students. At the smaller college they had more students in more need than we had so though I was lower middle income single mom they offered nothing.

I helped him the first couple years because he was taking so many credits and I didn't want him to work a lot. When he switched to the big school he didn't need my money, so I saved a lot of money and gained snob appeal. (Really it was funny, when people asked where he went and it was Uof M people were unduly impressed)

But that leads to a couple other things. One is how many credits he was taking. He found out as he was leaving the first school that they'd actually had a policy that any credits over 15 per semester were free but it was very fine print in some handbook and was not automatic and not retroactive. He had taken 18 to 21 every semester so we paid a lot of money we didn't need to. Students should ask about that policy so they know to do any paperwork to get it at the time.

The other part is work that is not work study. Though it turned out to make no difference because we got no aid from the first college students earnings make a difference. If kids work in high school before college 79% of their earnings and 30% of their savings is considered their portion to pay, subtracted from financial aid. (So if you save it all you are 5 % short!)

My son got a competitive scholarship that I also got 18 years before. It was for the same amount I got. For me it covered tuition and books...but it was barely anything by the time he went. However he had a diligent girlfriend in high school who had found many little scholarships he might qualify for and nagged him to fill them out. He got several thousand through the many small ones. Always worth searching. There are obscure ones based on nationality or major or whatever. Many to look at.

Also CLEP tests (College Level Examination Program)! Frankly I thought they couldn't be around any more but they are. My high school counselor was so insistent I take them he paid for them himself and I started college as a sophomore. I got some of the credits in classes I hadn't taken, that's why I thought they were probably stopped. I am a good test taker but anyone should take them for classes they have taken.

Also if a kid is a National Merit semi-finalist while they don't get a scholarship for that itself many schools have special scholarships or free tuition for them.

Tuition has gotten crazy. There is future hope. Some have heard of the "Kalamazoo promise". Anonymous donors have started a fund so that anyone who goes to school and graduates from Kalamazoo schools get free tuition to any state university. (Or reduced tuition if they started later) I've heard that many cities are trying to get a fund like that going. Hope it happens. The debt students come out with otherwise is suffocating.
This administration has been so bad for students. One of the worst things I think is no Pell grants or other Federal aid for anyone with a drug offense. Right, because anyone busted with a joint doesn't deserve college? bush can do cocaine and be a rotten student and get in where he did, but these poorer kids are cut out of the system for a pot misdemeanor. Drunk driving is still cool though.

Good luck...

[durrrty libby]

152. Wow this thread got a huge response

It is great to see democrats finding solutions for fellow citizens. That is exactly what a community should do.

I have another tip that has save me thousands of dollars and tons of time.


Find out what CLEP exams your school accepts, and the minimum score .

Personally, I saved 1.5 years of classes for my degree and I signed my sons up for at least 12 CLEP exams. They think I’m a genius for knowing stuff like this.

For those that don’t know, CLEP is a challenge exam. If you get a passing score for your school, they award you the credits without having to take the class. A 3 credit exam is approx $55.00. Think about how much time and money can be saved.

[wordpix2]

155. my advice: 2 yrs. in community college or go to small Canadian college,

preferably out West.

Otherwise, we middle class parents cannot afford college, even at state universities (mine is about $16,000/yr.) My duaghter is at a small Canadian college in British Columbia and it's affordable.

[Crabby Appleton]

157. OSU Tuition

OSU Tuition

good luck!

I worked my way through OSU, don't know if I could do it now.

[MadJohnShaft]

161. go to a crappy school - UW-Milwaukee $800/semester in the 80's