One can call a woman a “bitch” but one can’t say the word “fuck” on air?

[flvegan]

WTF?????

So this rock group, Buckcherry, has a new single called “Crazy Bitch” which is getting a ton of airplay, at least around here. It’s a rocking tune, and I can see why the masses might enjoy a listen. However, when it plays on the radio, they edit out the word “fuck” (please see lyrics below) but not the word “bitch” for some reason.

I know, “bitch” has a number of meanings/usages:

*I bred my bitch with this kick-ass alpha male, and the puppies are magnificent.

*At the Westminster Dog Show, the Doberman bitch was superior in her class.

*Damn, dude, but your girl is such a bitch (sometimes pronounced “bee-yotch”). I know, eww.

*Sorry you got fired. Sometimes, buddy, life is a bitch.

So, why is it offensive to hear the word “fuck” used in context, but not offensive to refer to a woman (or women) as a “bitch” anyway?

Lyrics:

All right!

Break me down, you got a lovely face
We're going to your place
And now you got to freak me out
Scream so loud, getting fuckin' laid
You want me to stay, but I got to make my way

Hey
You're a crazy bitch
But you fuck so good, I'm on top of it
When I dream, I'm doing you all night
Scratches all down my back to keep me right on

Hey
You're a crazy bitch
But you fuck so good, I'm on top of it
When I dream, I'm doing you all night
Scratches all down my back to keep me right on

Take it ALL, the paper is your game
You jump in bed with fame
Another one night paid in full, uh
You're so fine, it won't be a loss
Cashing in the rocks, just to get you face to face

Hey
You're a crazy bitch
But you fuck so good, I'm on top of it
When I dream, I'm doing you all night
Scratches all down my back to keep me right on

Hey
You're a crazy bitch
But you fuck so good, I'm on top of it
When I dream, I'm doing you all night
Scratches all down my back to keep me right on

Get the video
Fuck you so good
Get the video
Fuck you so good

Crazy bitch
Crazy bitch
Crazy...bitch

Hey
You're a crazy bitch
But you fuck so good, I'm on top of it
When I dream, I'm doing you all night
Scratches all down my back to keep me right on

Hey
You're a crazy bitch
But you fuck so good, I'm on top of it
When I dream, I'm doing you all night
Scratches all down my back, come on

Baby girl
You want it all
To be a star
You'll have to go down
Take it off
No need to talk
You're crazy
But I like the way you fuck me

Hey
You're a crazy bitch
But you fuck so good, I'm on top of it
When I dream, I'm doing you all night
Scratches all down my back to keep me right on

Hey
You're a crazy bitch
But you fuck so good, I'm on top of it
When I dream, I'm doing you all night
Scratches all down my back to keep me right on
You keep me right on

You're crazy
But I like the way you fuck me

[bullimiami]

1. those have to be some of the crappiest lyrics i ever had the misfortune to

read.

[mitchum]

28. Yep, makes Steven Tyler's doggerel sound like freakin' Keats

[Quantess]

2. from my understanding,

bitch is an insult, but fuck is a term for sex, which naturally makes it inappropriate for young ears.

By the way, I heard that song on the radio, and it's pretty ridiculous. Terrible lyrics.

Doesn't this thread belong in the Lounge?

[LeftyMom]

3. I think he's trying to understand why sex is obscene but misogyny isn't

That's GD material, IMO. That the lyrics suck (the music to the song is catchy though) is loungy. :shrug:

[flvegan]

4. So then, is

"bitch" in regards to a woman appropriate for young ears?

Yes, let's teach them when they're young. "Belong in the Lounge"...elitist much? I guess that threads about NOT diminishing women belong in places others consider lesser.

Cool, thanks!

[Quantess]

7. Sorry that you took offense. None intended.

If the mods decide your thread belongs in GD, then who cares what I think?

No, of course "bitch" isn't appropriate for young ears. I'm just so jaded that I wonder why you seem surprised at the FCC rules. It just isn't surprising, that's all.
Besides, I hear other songs that use that word on the radio. There was that song "I'm a Bitch.." sung by a woman, as if that makes a difference, maybe it does. The Rolling Stones have a song that goes "Love...it's a bitch", of course, the b word isn't used to insult a woman, in that song.

I don't know...maybe the FCC thinks there are too many exceptions to the rule?

[Quantess]

21. I thought of some more

"The Bitch is Back" by Elton John, sung about himself, gets lots of radio play. "Queen Bitch" by David Bowie, but I'm not sure it ever got radio play.

FLvegan, you were right, this is an interesting thread.:)

[flvegan]

50. "Interesting" thread is very on topic

As "intent" has much to do with this, I think.

[Redstone]

5. Boy, those lyrics are really, REALLY fucking lame.

THAT is what passes for songwriting these days?

Christ, I'm glas I don't write songs anymore. I'd hate like hell to have to write dreadful garbage like that to compete in the current market.

Redstone

[flvegan]

6. Of course they are, but

the point is that it's okay to refer to a woman as a "bitch" but not okay to refer to sex as, well, fucking.

At least to the FCC.

Sorry, I'm outraged that this passes.

[Redstone]

8. Hey, I'm outraged that they CAN call a woman a bitch on the air--

I don't think that EITHER should be allowed. You want to hear that kind of gutter language, go buy the CD.

And God help you if you play that CD loud next to my car when my kid's in the car and the windows or roof are down.

Redstone

[elehhhhna]

9. When women start singing about guys as "DICKS" we'll be equal.

We'll be in the fukkin GUTTER. But equal. lol

[Redstone]

13. Good point, but it's a LOT more insulting for a man to call a woman

a bitch, than it is for a woman to call a man a dick.

Redstone

[elehhhhna]

15. uh, I'm not sure of that, redstone--i'd say it's about the same,

[Quantess]

19. How about one woman calling another woman

a bitch?

[Redstone]

20. Still not suitable for the public airwaves.

Redstone

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

16. You want to censor both?

That's two steps back.

[flvegan]

17. No it isn't.

It's a decison on what's allowed and what isn't. This isn't about censorship.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

18. Oh, I'm sorry.

I thought censorship was busy-bodies deciding what's allowed and what isn't.

[Redstone]

22. It's hardly censorship. Give me a break.

You have kids? I do. I don't want them hearing that kind of language on the radio. I don't use that kind of language around them, and anyone who does, wishes he hadn't.

We have a right not to be forced to listen to language that we find offensive.

Redstone

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

23. Yes, you've got that right.

Which is why leading 21st century scientists have developed technology they call the "off button."

[Redstone]

25. No, we're talking about the PUBLIC AIRWAVES. That's different.

As I said before, you have every right to listen to whatever gutter language you want to...just go buy the CD.

In America, you have the right to swing your fist as much you please. But that right ends where someone else's nose begins.

Redstone

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

27. See, that's what I've never understood.

They call it "public" but then they go and censor it based on their own phoney baloney standards of decency.

Fuck that.

[Redstone]

31. So, I guess a gang rape during the Super Bowl halftime would be OK?

It should be, according to your logic.

You know, there are actually women out there who ENJOY having spring-type clothespins attached to their genitalia. Isn't it wrong, by your argument, to censor THEM? Why shouldn't THEY be able to express themselves on broadcast television?

Redstone

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

36. Yes! Finally you get it! That's exactly what I'm saying!

If anything, we need more live gang rapes on TV, and more baby chucking on ESPN would be more entertaining, thank you.

[Redstone]

39. Well, THERE's a thoughtful rejoinder. You must have been an ace

in your high-school debating class. What a style.

Redstone

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

41. Taken many debating classes yourself?

Because I'm wondering which class it is where they teach you to compare free speech with gang rape.

I'm thinking of taking some evening courses.

[Redstone]

44. You were the one who compared free speech with being able to say

whatever you want to, in any medium, no matter how public. Not me.

Sorry, that ain't gonna fly.

Redstone

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

48. I know, crazy ain't it.

What am I smoking?

[Redstone]

52. Well, I'll leave you to your crusade to grant people the all-important

right to say "fuck" on broadcast radio, and to show acts of bestiality on broadcast television, or whatever.

I hope you prevail in your crusade, because then we won't have to worry about that pesky war, or that pesky economy, or our other pesky civil rights, because hey, you'll have won, and we'll be able to hear people say "fuck" on the radio.

And you'll be honored far and wide for the patriot that you are.

I'm off to the Land of Nod. You may continue your crusade without me.

Redstone

[LeftyMom]

30. Here's my problem with it

Calling a woman a bitch in the context of a sexual relationship is deeply misogynistic. That however is permitted, while using the word fuck, in the context of a song that's all about fucking and still obviously about fucking no matter how many times that word is bleeped, is not.

Sex=obscene. Hateful language toward women= okay.

I'd like to see better judgement about the use of language and I'd like to see radio stations refuse to play misogynistic tripe as they would rightfully refuse to play songs with racist lyrics. I'd rather see self-restraint than outside censorship, because that allows for flexibility when the context is not offensive or the art is worthy of an exception.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

34. Leftymom

if you replace "bitch" with "baby" and "fuck" with "kiss" and "scratches" with "hickies" you've got basically every rock n' roll song ever made in the last fifty years.

[Redstone]

35. I asked you a question. You didn't answer.

Redstone

[LeftyMom]

38. "Baby" isn't hateful toward women

at worst it's condescending.

I really don't care that there's adult language or sex talk involved (there's worse on my ipod, worse in my inbox and much worse comes from my own mouth on both counts) it's the nastiness toward women that I find deeply offensive.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

42. Same with the word "bitch."

In this context.

The sentiment's the same as any rock n' roll song that's been around.

[Redstone]

49. Oh, sure it is. "Any rock and roll song" is contemptuous of women.

Okay, sure, right.

Redstone

[Redstone]

43. And the fact that it's on the public airwaves, yes?

Your ipod, your inbox, and your own mouth are your personal property/space, and are one thing. Public broadcasts are another.

Redstone

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

47. Well, that's the thing.

Back in the dawn of broadcasting some bluehairs got together and decided that even though we have freedom of speech in this country, there were seven or so certain words that you couldn't say "on the air," regardless of how stupid that actually was.

Now, of course, it's 2006. There's still a few bluehairs around, the American Family Association for instance, trying to censor the air waves. But we're making progress. You can say pretty much any fucking thing we want on cable late at night, for example. And with a little more work and a lot more luck maybe some day will say "fuck" on radio too.

[Redstone]

51. And won't that be a wonderful day.

You ever hear of the word "civility?" that's a concept that used to be important.

Redstone

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

55. Oh, I agree that civility is very important.

In fact that's exactly what I'm taking issue with. In a civil society, Redstone, censorship is totally obscene.

[arwalden]

37. Oh Brother...

<< And God help you if you play that CD loud next to my car when my kid's in the car and the windows or roof are down. >>

Or what? You'll shoot them? Run them off the road? Get out and punch them in the face? Oooo :scared: of you.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

40. LOL.

I wonder what would happen if the kid reads the OP.

[Name removed]

46. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Igel]

10. You're asking for a logical answer to a social

value judgment.

Why is it that people pick on a particular pronunciation of the word 'nuclear' ('nukyular') but not others that say 'ka-uh' or 'kah' 'car'?

Why is 'crap' ok in more circumstances than 'shit', 'feces' is better in some circumstances, 'excrement' in others, and 'poo' merely sounds cute? In a formal setting, I may tell somebody to be quiet, but STFU is unlikely, and even "put a sock in it" or "close your trap" are pushing it.

Norms, that's why. And those you simply describe; they're justified by usage. You analyse them by showing which social or prestige group imposes them, and why that group gets to impose them. There is no other why.

"Bitch" is judged as crude. "Fuck" is judged obscene. In 100 years the judgments may be reversed; 100 years ago neither would have been acceptable.

[TheCowsCameHome]

11. Gosh, what deep thinkers these songwriters must be.

[ismnotwasm]

12. Typical

Women are bitches-- or this one is, (evidently in a good way, no doubt because of her fuck skills) but fuck is a radio edit in a song about fucking a women who is a bitch.
Great message for the kiddies. Good 'ol FCC protecting those family values. That type of radio editing the lyrical equivalent of a partial strip tease. (Can you guess what's under the bleep? I knew that you could.)

[Redstone]

14. Helluva good point there.

"Can you guess what's under the bleep?"

Excellent turn of phrase.

Redstone

[dysfunctional press]

24. it's those "k" sounds- they're just too scary...

cocksucker never stands a chance.

[mitchum]

29. BWAHAHAHA!!!!

nice :)

[mitchum]

26. Jesus! Buckcherry still really really suck.

I didn't know that those idiots were still around

[Redstone]

32. I never knew they were around in the first place. And now that I've

seen the kind of "lyrics" they write, I know why.

Redstone

[peacebaby3]

33. I actually heard this piece of sh*t song on the radio and as a woman, I

was completely offended. No, I'm not for censorship, but this is the kind of crap teenagers are listening to and it's horrible. I would never let my children listen to this kind of crap. Honestly, I can't see why anyone would listen to the garbage and I can't believe it's actually popular.

[flvegan]

45. Thank you.

This was largely my point.

[porphyrian]

53. Give it another ten years. - n/t

[hfojvt]

54. long ago, in a galaxy far away

Elton John's "The b*tch is back" was played on the radio, uncensored.

I believe Hall and Oates "You're a rich girl" also included the line - "it's a bitch girl, but it's gone too far"

Certain versions of "The Devil went down to Georgia" have Johnny saying to the devil "I told you once you son of a b*tch, I'm the best that's ever been"

Other versions say "gun" instead of the B-word. Both were played on the radio. (Charlie also took part in a cover of his own song "Long haired country boy" where the line "I don't want much of nothing at all, but I will take another toke" had the end part of it changed to "I will tell another joke" The toke line was also played on the radio.)

When "Trading Places" was shown on TV, Eddie Murphy's line "We can make it baby, just you and me. You b*tch!" was changed to "you pig". But really why should calling a woman a pig be less offensive than calling one a b*tch? At least in my lifetime, the b-word has not been nearly as unacceptable as the n-word, the f-word, or the a-word. Why should it be more offensive than jerk or prick? What about Richardhead?