Raise your hand if you have already stopped going to TO for news...

[Nimrod2005]

I did...

[texasleo]

1. I never started

[WCGreen]

85. It seemed like a shakey outfit from the start....

to me, at least...

All this is reminds me of the yellow journalism of the late 1890's through 1920's...

People more interested in scoops than in getting to the story....

It's what can be expected from a medium that thrives on being first...

[cantstandbush]

101. They have been right more than they have been wrong.

There seems to be less outrage about a lying President than set-up journalists. We are in the Coulterization of America. Spew out lies and hate and few will challenge you on the facts, they will just respond to the venom.

[Dinger]

120. Me Neither (nt)

[Cronus Protagonist]

127. I'm thinking... TO is known for "news"?

I guess it mutated since I saw it last, but news was not on the menu the last time I went there, as far as I could tell. I thought it was an op-ed site and none of the columnists interested me enough to want to go back.

[Roland99]

2. Have in the past but not anymore. And Will Pitt has some 'splainin' to do.

[Nimrod2005]

6. I can't wait...

[TornadoTN]

11. Can't wait to see the "splainin"

Probably will amount to something even Karl Rove would be proud of.

[donheld]

33. Will Pitt should explain to some of you

exactly where to get off at.

[otokogi]

55. he excels at that

:freak:

[salinen]

112. Will Pitt should explain to some of you

exactly where to get off.

Sorry. Sounds better without the "at".

[progmom]

94. Ok - I was pretty mad at Pitt about the way he talked to Skinner....

Though he did apologize (privately), so I really don't have anything to say about that.

But this isn't about Will Pitt. Why do we think he needs to explain anything to us? He didn't write the story. He just believed it and fervently wanted it to be true.

Hell, I feel sorry for Pitt today. This has got to be embarrassing. He basically put his DU reputation on the line for this story.

Now, if Jason Leopold were a DU member, I certainly wouldn't mind him admitting that he fucked up.

[lindisfarne]

3. It's a good source for subscription=only NY Times columnists. I haven't

stopped.

[SharonAnn]

82. I support TO with $ every month. They're a great source, not perfect one

[wtmusic]

4. Is this a lover's quarrel or something?

Why are you taking it so personally?

[jojo54]

5. Somebody fill me in....please???

[stop the bleeding]

7. you are joking right? n/t

[Captain Hilts]

9. No, what's going on? nt

[jojo54]

14. No, I'm not joking. A lot going on in my house right now and

I don't always have time to keep up. So please, fill me in on what's going on. Just a quick couple of sentences is all I need. Thx.

[stop the bleeding]

28. Ok real quick here is the short of it

back on the weekend before May 12 2006

Jason Leopold reported that an indictment dated 05/12/06 was handed up by the GJ indicting Rove, and that Rove had 24 business hours to get his things together.

Needless to say this place exploded continuously for next week until 05/12/06 and beyond. - with no indictment on 05/12/06

Skinner had to have a special thread just for the Rove/Leopold wars - we got up to like 20 plus threads it was ugly.

Will Pitt and Jason Leopold have both gone on the record along with Marc Ash from TO since 05/12/06 saying that there is still an indictment forthcoming on Rove.

Now we are given the news this morning that Rove WILL NOT be indicted.

It will be interesting to see what JL's and TO's responses are, cause they surely have some splainin to do.

Hope this helps :)

[jojo54]

43. Tremendous help, stopthebleeding. Thx for the info.

[sheelz]

106. It started with a target letter...

then JL/WP/TO ego downfall.

[Nimrod2005]

8. lol..

[Roland99]

15. Truthout.org (Jason Leopold) reporting all but guaranteed Rove indicted

[Cronus Protagonist]

130. They did note that it was based mostly on hearsay, though

To be fair, the claim was attributed to hearsay, by my reading of the work. Perhaps I'm giving too much leeway to the writers?

[saltpoint]

10. I didn't like the site in the first place, but I withhold personal

judgment on Leopold in the Rove story because it's apparent that something went wrong beyond several people's control. With Rove in the mix, who knows how deceitful it might be?

Somebody ordered a ham&cheese on whole wheat and got egg salad on pumpernickel. Don't know if the order was placed in error, or if the cook screwed up, or the courier picked up the wrong bag.

But somethin' went wrong someplace.

[IsIt1984Yet]

12. I think what went wrong is that Jason was bamboozled. And he fell for it.

Hook. Line. And Sinker.

[saltpoint]

20. Very possible. If somebody told me they thought Karl Rove was

guilty of just about anything, I'd certainly be inclined to believe them.

[IsIt1984Yet]

24. Ah, but are you a journalist? Would you have reported this without

SOLID evidence? I'd hope not. Just because you really really hope something is true does not make it so.

[saltpoint]

53. Didn't say it was. Didn't say it should be. I argue for something

having gone very wrong in the story.

I've never met Jason Leopold and I don't know what happened.

I doubt if anybody on this board does either.

[calimary]

100. Yes, but just remember all the "mainstream," bigshot reporters who

were reporting with such absolute confidence about WMDs in Iraq.

It's not just the Jason Leopolds who get it wrong, or are steered wrong, or misread the tea leaves.

Not a great start to the day, I'll tell ya. But it could be worse. They're probably getting ulcers at Truthout at the moment. In fact, I feel for Jason Leopold. This must have been a horrendously weird and stressful month for him.

[Nimrod2005]

91. Same here....

[TornadoTN]

22. Or perhaps he just made it up?

His track record speaks for itself, as we have all seen over the past month with the furor over this story. I wouldn't be a bit surprised to learn that he made it all up based on a hunch or out of context innuendo rather than actual journalism and reporting. As this mess kept going on the responses and explanations just kept getting more and more bizarre.

[IsIt1984Yet]

25. I'd LIKE to think that he had SOMETHING to base it on other than

his wild imagination. I'd like to think that Ash and Pitt demanded SOMETHING.

But... shit, anything is possible.

[TornadoTN]

31. I know what you mean

I would like to think they took everything into consideration, but something tells me that this story was so sensational that the conventional rules didnt apply. Two months ago everyone on this board would have bet Rove was going to be indicted, so it wasn't exactly a leap to make up a sensational story the week the grand jury was being convened to stir interest based on a "hunch" that Rove might get indicted that week.

I don't think they were planning on Rove being let off the hook in the end however. It's going to be interesting to see the response.

[IsIt1984Yet]

34. I think Pitt and Ash fucked up as big as Leopold. If not more.

They ought to know better.

[TornadoTN]

51. Indeed they should

Their hands are just as dirty as Leopolds, if not more so.

[saltpoint]

57. Perhaps he's a Buddhist. Perhaps he played third base in Little League

when he was 8 years old.

We don't know much about the guy, seems to me.

The story appears to have been badly off target. I'm disappointed, frankly, that Rove has escaped indictment, because I feel he is complicit in the smearing of Ms. Plame.

That's not a chivalrous response only, but a Constitutional/treason response primarily.

We know that administrations plant false info and we know that Rove is a rat.

Beyond those two certainties, I feel Fitzgerald's work is not yet complete and that we should trust him to complete it.

[DemReadingDU]

27. But somethin' went wrong someplace.

Fitzgerald knows what happened, and he's not talking, yet. Eventually, Fitz will get everything sorted out for us.

[IsIt1984Yet]

32. He doesn't HAVE to talk and he actually SHOULDN'T talk.

What went wrong is that Jason fucked up... big time.

[saltpoint]

52. Yep. I think Fitz is a good man.

[LaurenG]

13. Oh for pete's sake

Lighten up. lol

[Maru Kitteh]

88. Oh yeah, who needs accuracy in journalism anyways just as long as they are

telling us what we wanted to hear right?

That kind of thinking is fucked up from the right or the left.

[LaurenG]

95. He put himself out on a limb

he screwed up. I hope we get an apology, other than that, sh** happens.

[texasleo]

16. Greenfield just mentioned the weekend TO story on IMUS

yikes!

[Cassandra]

17. Of course, the NYTimes never lies about anything...

or is ever wrong. :eyes:
We'll see what happens, since that is the only news that counts, indictment-wise.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Nimrod2005]

86. OMG!

Why does it have to be either Fox or TO? No in between for you?

[Mr_Spock]

19. Give it a rest will ya?

I'm through with this.

[Canuckistanian]

21. So am I

This is getting us nowhere.

[myrna minx]

23. Hear hear. I guess it's going to be a "hide thread" kind of day.

:-(

[Mr_Spock]

26. Don't forget to alert for flame bait and call outs before you hide

I am

[donheld]

29. I have not stopped, Nor do I intend too

:grr:

[sendero]

30. Ok...

... man I hate this but here goes.

Some folks here are just salivating over the chance to scream "I told you so". That's fine, because if Rove had turned out to be indicted, I had a list of people whos noses I was going to rub it in.

I don't know a thing about Leopold, and I'm not going to defend him. But Will Pitt? But y'all should ask yourselves, do you REALLY think that they made this story up as some kind of gambit? REALLY?

Have you never been convincingly lied to? Let's just say this - if there really were never "multiple independent sources", then they really screwed up in a big way. Do you guys really think Pitt would stand behind this story if there weren't?

I'm as cynical and suspicious a person as anyone, and I just don't buy the idea that many of you here are selling - that this was some kind of gun-jumping dice-rolling call in a lame attempt to get a scoop. I don't buy that for a second.

[Cha]

40. Check.

[Nimrod2005]

42. Jason is fool, TO is not reliable and shold just go away, I like William

Pitt...All he did was report what Jason had been saying...

[OzarkDem]

46. Maybe you'll find

a more sympathetic audience over at Free Republic.

[rman]

92. it looks like you are an exception

[OzarkDem]

35. Will continue to do so

and I'm rather surprised that Democrats would take such a ridiculous position.

[Cha]

41. Check.

[dogday]

61. What ridiculous position are Democrats taking?

would like to know...

[arwalden]

36. It's Just Another RawStory Or Drudge Or BradBlog.

:boring:

[KittyWampus]

69. You must have never actually visited TO's website then... or have very

poor observational skills.

[arwalden]

105. It's Becoming Increasingly Apparent To Me

... that the loudest defenders are the ones who are, in fact, demonstrating exceedingly low standards, or perhaps their OWN "poor observational skills". :eyes: Frankly, I'm just not as easily impressed as those folks are.

[Yollam]

37. Never went there in the first place.

I generally use Buzzflash...

[peacetalksforall]

38. I can't believe the dis-loyalty and jumping ship in regards to TO -

Truthout.

[IsIt1984Yet]

39. I can't believe the lack of journalist integrity in regards to TO...

[democraticinsurgent]

44. So many quick to dump on Truthout

What a shame.

We don't really know what happened. I don't care if Skinner himself says Jason Leopold blew it (which he did say).

Leopold stuck his neck out and got it chopped off, on one story. A story with lots of intrigue, many players and tons of secrecy. A story where Bushco can and will use its leverage to influence the results. We cannot forget that despite the illusion of independence, there is no such thing as an independent prosecutor. Fitzgerald serves at the pleasure of Bushco.

We should continue to support Truthout and any of the other news/opinion websites that are working their asses off to get us the best information they can get.

Mistakes happen. Can you think of any news-gathering operation--TV, newspaper, whatever--that hasn't run with a story that didn't pan out?

Get over it.

[IsIt1984Yet]

48. Stop blaming me and others. The did it to themselves.

[ContraBass Black]

77. Should I break out the dead horse beating picture again?

:D

[Jigarotta]

113. yes, mistakes do happen.

but what I thought was handled miserably and very unprofessionally was the aftermath to the story when the mysterious 24 business hours ran out. Many flaws were pointed out in the Leopold story by DUers and they were called named and infidels and rove apologists.

THAT is the story now, not Leopold getting bad info. I could easily get over a mistake, but making false claims and errors because of one's ego is a total other matter - you be in the wrong business then.

[Tin Man]

121. Ding, ding, ding - give that man a cigar !

Yep, the issue is not JL getting tricked, rather, the issue is JL tricking his public.

JL's reporting on the 'Rove indictment', especially the follow-ups, were a house of cards built atop the original false story, and everything finally collapsed. In the words of our fearless leader, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, err... can't get fooled again!"

[saracat]

118. But Leopold is an "admitted plagarist" who was fired from Salon

for a false story. This isn't "one" story.

[OzarkDem]

45. I'm a Democrat

and I realize that makes me a minority here, but it makes no sense to try to destroy the reputation of one of the few sources of news we have. Unless you're a Republican. Perhaps that's the case and we just have to accept there are a lot of GOP folks who post here. Not a problem, I can handle mixed forums.

:shrug:

[peacetalksforall]

50. It's really becoming a struggle to sift through the Rovians on DU. If not

Rovians - the effect is just as Rovian meaning not waiting for the full story (or as much of it as is possible based on knolwedgeable input) - therefore crucifying our own.

I think I need to follow the Brewster-Jennings case someplace else.

I can't take the Truthout and Fitzgerald bashing.

I thought only Republicans expect perfection from Democrats and lacking perfection, decimate them. Oh, that's right, we're talking about Republicans on DU.

[IsIt1984Yet]

60. Rovians? If you suspect trolls, you should alert quickly.

But, let's be real... REALLY real - the folks who are angry at Leopold, TO, Pitt and Ash are FULLY justified in their anger and disappointment.

Excuse US for expecting journalistic integrity from them.

We all have a right be pissed at them and their insistence that this was all true... we sat back and watched the number of "sources" change as the days went on. Bullshit. They didn't verify the story and they are accountable for that. Just because they are on the "left" doesn't mean they get a pass for fucking up.

And, your implication that those of us who have lost all faith in TO are some kind of GOP plants as ridiculous as Leopold's journalistic integrity.

Go read some of Skinner's posts today on this matter and then tell him what you posted here.

[dogday]

64. What does Skinner have to do with this?

Just cause he posts his opinion, does not make it law. At least not for me...

I think the point trying to be made is that we have received bogus stories from the media before and we still keep believing them.. Here are a few

We need to go to war in Iraq
We need court orders to bug citizens
The miners are all alive ( one of my personal favorites)
swiftboating of John Kerry
2000 Fox announcement (premature of Bush winning)
all the numerous lies and premature speculation that is not even news these days...


I will continue to read Truthout.. I will expect an explanation of this story and the sources involved. We are all disappointed, but we are all not so angry....

[IsIt1984Yet]

66. The poster above implied that, unless you give JL a pass, you're a

"republican".

That's what I was speaking to... and Skinner CLEARLY is not giving JL a pass. So, is the poster implying that Skinner is a republican?

[dogday]

67. Again those are ridiculous statements coming from both sides...

People need to back off of these accusations, they only serve to divide... The acrimony here is so thick, you could cut it with a chainsaw....

[IsIt1984Yet]

76. I agree. I think there are 2 "camps" here. Some (myself included)

are just really really amazed that some will buy into the validity of a story JUST because it came from TO and was backed to vehemently by Pitt. There was never any proof provided that this indictment was issued. And, when 24 hours turned into a few weeks, the story changed as did the number of claimed sources.

You and I have argued this before, and I KNOW that there's an argument of "hey, you can't prove it's NOT true"... but ya know what? That's not journalism. In journalism, a reporter with integrity is responsible for proving it's truth... not the reader responsible for disproving the claim.

I think some people (myself included) really want to make the point of... "hey, really, question EVERYTHING... even our own, cuz we've been fed a WHOLE lot of bullshit over the years." And, we need proof before we buy into these stories, whatever the source may be.

[dogday]

79. But those that question everything

are labeled with :tinfoilhat: It is always good to question everything, because we don't know the truth from the lies anymore...

[IsIt1984Yet]

81. You're right, we don't know the truth from the lies anymore.

It's really sad.

[peacetalksforall]

72. I don't understand - did Skinner order that we condemn Truthout? nt

[IsIt1984Yet]

73. Whatever. No, he said Leopold fucked up. And many of us agree.

And, some posters have LITERALLY said that if we hold that view, we're "covering for Rove".

That, is bullshit.

[dogday]

62. Democrats are a minority here?

What is that statement about?

[IsIt1984Yet]

63. They are trying to imply that if we have lost faith in TO, we're not REAL

Democrats. Or, never were. That if we don't give Leopold/TO/Ash a "pass" we're GOP plants.

Whatever.

[dogday]

65. I don't believe that, but I also

don't believe in this indignant acrimony I am seeing either... Disappointment, I guess, shows itself in many ways....

[KittyWampus]

70. So tell us, what news source do you still have faith in? What news source

has achieved absolute perfection?

[IsIt1984Yet]

71. None. And... none. TO is right up there with the rest.

[treestar]

47. Since your standard is perfection, this does mean, doesn't it,

that you've stopped going to the MSM for news, too?

Think like a freeper, everything is personal. Jason makes one mistake, he makes nothing but mistakes.

You can't believe anyone, ever. Nobody is perfect.

In fact, don't believe yourself.

TO to top it off, has several people working for it. They are guilty by association?

[johnfunk]

49. I'd trust Leopold and Pitt over Robert Luskin any day...

FACT: The single source for the claim that Rove now won't be indicted is Rove's attorney, Robert Luskin.

FACT: Luskin's claim to the press is in the best interest of his client -- and not the press or the public.

FACT: truthout.org says Luskin's claim is directly contradicted by multiple-sourced information -- and this morning said they will stand by their story.

FACT: Luskin was spinning nonstop since Rove clearly became a "person of interest" to Fitz; now, suddenly, Luskin says he's not going to be discussing the matter -- clamming up, in effect.

Luskin is spinning one last (he hopes) spin.

Don't get spun like the so-called "liberal media."

[Snivi Yllom]

59. bwahahahahahaaha!

still clinging to nothing

[Catherine Vincent]

74. I am just hearing this on Democracy Now by David Corn

He says this is coming from Rove's attorney. Luskin wouldn't lie to us would he? hmmm

[Zynx]

54. I never did.

[ScreamingMeemie]

56. No...But I DID stop watching CBS the day Dan Rather stepped down. n/t

[garybeck]

58. News? You mean made up stories?

I stopped going there for either.

[dailykoff]

68. How many of these are you going to start?

I smell a campaign to discredit TO and I suspect it has to do with their reporting on the fraudulent elections.

Sometimes I wonder. . . .

[AngryAmish]

75. Terrel Owens is notoriously unpredictable

He got himself ran out of San Fran and Philly. Why I should trust him for news is beyond me.

[Phillycat]

78. DAMMIT I can't believe I got beat to this

[bigtree]

80. dumbass thing to do

There is a diversity of authors and articles the site posts everyday, Many sites won't carry articles TO runs. Our articles.

There may be a few that don't pan out, but that's true of all news sites.

Anyone who takes a site and throws their blind trust behind everything they produce without thinking objectively is asking more than any news source can deliver.

Delivery is the mainstay of TO. They provide articles with a progressive voice. We need MORE outlets, not less. To ignore TO we would run the risk of ignoring good solid work that benefits our cause or causes.

One errant article out of thousands doesn't detract at all from TO's fine work over the years. Folks need to stop tearing at them. Nothing in that will help anyone or anything. The sniping does much more damage than any unsubstantiated article can ever do.

[Hissyspit]

104. Exactly. n/t

[Dora]

83. Raise your hand if you think it's productive to play divisive games...

Games like raising your hand to indicate which side you're on.

"Ooh... oooh... me!! me!!! Over here!!! Yoo-hoooo!!!!!"


:sarcasm:

[Nimrod2005]

87. Divisive? between reality and news form a source called TO?

where articles are not true? This Jason person has been in trouble for similar stuff before...

[Dora]

96. Caveat emptor. My point is not TO's accuracy, my point is all about you.

You're still picking sides and inviting others to do the same. Divisive? You: "Raise your hand if...." You're either with us or you're against us: that's a familiar theme, albeit one that doesn't belong on DU.

What's the point of your post? If I tell you that I'm not reading TO because of the Leopold/Rove story, how does that effect you? If I tell you that I'm continuing to read TO, despite the confusion and ambiguities of the Leopold/Rove story, how does that effect you?

Either way, why should I care?

You see my hands? No? Good, because I'm not playing your adolescent "raise your hand" games.

[Nimrod2005]

97. Ok, I understand, you are right...

OT: Are you Dora la exploradora?

[Dora]

98. ¿Dónde está mi país?

:cry:

[Nimrod2005]

103. We'll get it back don't worry

my 4 year old daughter loves Dora - I do too actually.

[IndyOp]

84. Nope.

truthout pulls together good articles from many different sources and many different writers.

i still visit. i still donate.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

89. I take it you never read the NY Times anymore either, right?

after Judith Miller and Jason Blair...right? Oh wait...NYT reported this story :D

[bigtree]

90. lol

:+

[OzarkDem]

93. So are you promoting Drudge & Fox now?

:P

[Beelzebud]

99. Drudge and Fox are popular because right-wingers defend it.

Do we want to be on their level, or do we rise above?

The choice is ours.

[Hissyspit]

102. I have every intention of going to Truthout like always

as an information clearing house and for editorials. I just won't read Jason Leopold articles.

At one point in the past five years, Truthout was all I had to keep me sane. These attacks on Truthout are over the top and just what the bad guys want to see from us.

[Rex]

107. Look at all the glee here.

Yay! TO is dead; another progressive site bites the dust! Yay! Let's all cheer! See, this is why Dems lose and will continue to lose in elections - pettiness and jealousy keep us from unifying like the Repukes. Did TO get a story wrong? Looks like it. Should we kill them off for it? Looks like it. Do we love stabbing fellow progressives in the back when they screw up!? HELL YES!!!

Raise your hand if you love causing strife and inner-party fighting... :eyes:

[butterfly77]

108. I haven't stopped and ..

I think I will recommend them to others...

[Oilwellian]

109. No, I have not

and don't plan to. Threads like this one make me embarrassed to call myself a DU'er today. The pettiness is stunning.

[Gregorian]

110. Let's go after the bad guys. Like Fox.

I don't condone jumping the gun with bad information. But there are bigger and badder fish to fry.

[newspeak]

111. you know, I have not gone to TO before

but since you and some others seem so intent on bringing it down--I think I'll have to go over. It's amazing how many have pounced on TO, maybe too enthusiastically, and I wonder why.

[robbedvoter]

114. Not raising my hand. Whatever happened was NOT willful fabrication

like the MSM does daily. TO is on our side - always was and some day we'll know the whole story.
Whether it was disinformation, by the sources, to the sources or just murky dissembling, it was not fabricated by TO, leopold. Of this, I am sure.
I cannot believe DU-ers with personal agenda go so far as to celebrate Rove's newfound freedom and maintain that"he was not guilty of anything after all"
I'd rather be pissed by myself than celebrating with those jerks.

[izzybeans]

115. Yeah they are the one's we should be angry with.

:sarcasm:

[Czolgosz]

116. Is "TO" Jeff Gannon/James Guckert's new name? That guy fakes news!

In a related story, Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeldt, Rice, Bolton, Snow and their compadres have also been know to fake news so you should stop going to them for news too. If, on the other hand, you are talking about an internet site that had multiple sources for a story that appears as if it might possibly have been inaccurate, you ought to step back and take a deep breath.

Perhaps you are not aware of this, but the New York Times has an infinitely larger staff than any 10 internet news organization combined, and despite this overwhelmingly large staff, the Time has committed an uncountably large number of errors, including the following mistakes:

1. It ridiculed Robert Goddard and his claim that a rocket would work in space.
2. It ran a story on teen "grunge speak" which was actually a joke perpetrated by a sales representative for Sub Pop Records.
3. It has run several premature obituaries, including professor William Baer's and dancer Katharine Sergava's.
4. It has run numerous fabricated stories by ex-Times-employee and journalism fraudster Jayson Blair.
5. And, not least, Times published approximately 78.5 shitloads of lies and fabricated stories to promote the phony buildup to the erroneous war in Iraq with the assistance of truth-impaired spinster Judith Miller.

To call these 5 examples the "tip of the iceberg" for fabricated news reporting would grossly insult the glacier-loving community here so I will merely suggest that you to ponder the matter further after a deep breath and a moment of silence.

If, after your moment of silence, you're still really this upset about the appearance of an error in an internet news site, I suspect that you were perhaps viewing that site with insufficient skepticism and you are almost reposing too much confidence in whatever alternative news source you would hold up as comparatively infallible.

[quinnox]

117. Didn't before and now

certainly wouldn't start. Truthout lost all credibility with this fiasco. Even if Leopold was let go, which I doubt, hell, he will probably be made lead reporter!

"TRUTHOUT, THE PLACE TO GO FOR NEWS YOU WISH WAS TRUE(BUT ISN'T)"

[DisgustedTX]

119. KNR!

:)

[AnnieBW]

122. I STAND BY TRUTHOUT!!!

Always have, always will. People make mistakes. People get misinformed. Sh*t happens. Sorry to disappoint you all, but the TO people are just as human as the rest of us.

- AnnieBW, TO quarterly donor and proud of it!

[Tin Man]

123. Let's suppose that JL *was* tricked initially...

Well, he had 1 month to get himself un-tricked, but he didn't. In this light, he is incompetent, at best. But the truth is far more damning...

Ask yourself, why was JL the ONLY REPORTER IN THE WORLD to get his hooks into this giant story? I can guarantee there are at least a few reporters on Capitol Hill with a little black book full of contacts and a telephone - why hadn't any other reporter been able to shake-out any portion of the 'Rove indictment' during the 1 month since the TO story broke? Because the indictment was a figment of JL's imagination, that's why. There just wasn't any truth to it - it was simply a guess that the long-rumored Rove indictment would be handed-down at the next mtg of the GJ. But JL guessed wrong.

His later 'updates' were just more manure for the heap, a delaying tactic, through which he hoped that somehow his story would be validated, ex post facto, by an actual indictment. And the clincher was his report filed yesterday (June 12), in which he talked about the significance of the 'Sealed vs. Sealed' case on the DC Circuit Court docket, a claim which was quicly demonstrated to be 100% swiss cheese in a DU thread last night. JL had 1 month to come clean, but instead he continued peddling his sham, because he's a compulsive liar - and that's the TruthOut.

[Malikshah]

124. *raises hand*....but there's only one finger showing to the OP

Enjoy the oblivion vindictive fair-weatherers out there.

[Notoverit]

125. Then,I'll go over there more often to make up for overreactions like these

Funny how Drudge is still posted on DU, or Maureen Dowd, or Tweety - yet your purity is such, you'd spurn TO for one story that they got wrong...
:shrug:

[Bluebear]

126. 'Funny how Drudge is still posted on DU'

To great derision.

[Notoverit]

136. Not always derision. Drudge/RNC smear on Clark in the primaries was

the toast of the day! Threads and threads were posted non stop. And Tweety's pronouncements - still taken seriously. McCain, Powell - still "shock" DU-ers who "expected better" of them.

[lonestarnot]

128. sucking ass this thread.

[Zen]

129. You are a great man

O8)

[lynne]

131. "We were misled, we were given evidence that was not true"

That's actually a Kerry quote about Iraq from another thread. Sadly, it also describes exactly where we now sit thanks to TO.

I'm seeing a lot of excuses made on behalf of TO floating around today. Why? I would think they should be making explanation to us in lieu of us scrambling around and making explanations for them.

[Kolesar]

132. I never thought Truthout was that compelling

I always started with DU, Salon, and www.Ohio.com

[DisgustedTX]

133. KnR! n/t

:)

[dailykoff]

134. Astroturf in action.

Ka ching.

[DisgustedTX]

135. Ka Ching!

:)