CANCER HITS 283 RESCUERS OF 9/11

[shance]

CANCER HITS 283 RESCUERS OF 9/11

http://www.nypost.com/php/pfriendly... n_edelman.htm

By SUSAN EDELMAN

June 11, 2006 -- Since 9/11, 283 World Trade Center rescue and recovery workers have been diagnosed with cancer, and 33 of them have died of cancer, says a lawyer for the ailing responders.

David Worby, a lawyer for 8,000 World Trade Center responders, including cops, firefighters and construction workers, said the cases include blood-cell cancers such as leukemia, lymphoma, Hodgkin's and myeloma.

Doctors say the cancers can strike three to five years after exposure to toxins such as benzene, a cancer-causing chemical that permeated the WTC site from burning jet fuel.

"One in 150,000 white males under 40 would normally get the type of acute white blood-cell cancer that strikes a healthy detective," said Worby, whose first client was NYPD narcotics cop John Walcott, now 41. Walcott spent months at Ground Zero and the Fresh Kills landfill. The father of three is fighting leukemia.

"We have nearly 35 of these cancers in the family of 50,000 Ground Zero workers. The odds of that occurring are one in hundreds of millions," Worby said.

Others suffer tumors of the tongue, throat, testicles, breast, bladder, kidney, colon, intestines, and lung, said Worby, of Worby, Groner, Edelman, & Napoli, Bern, which filed the class-action suit.


More at link...

__________________

EDIT: COPYRIGHT. PLEASE POST ONLY 4 OR 5 PARAGRAPHS
FROM THE COPYRIGHTED NEWS SOURCE PER DU RULES.

[Magrittes Pipe]

1. Are there any sources for this story that are NOT the Post?

:shrug:

[Bluebear]

2. UPI/Washington Times

http://washingtontimes.com/upi/20060611-044902-1264r.htm

[Magrittes Pipe]

3. Much better.

:thumbsup:

[SavetheUSA]

4. wow, I was just reading about this...

The EPA's Lies after 9/11 will kill more than the attack itself

from a radio show, George Noory interviewing former Marine, Prof Jim Fetzer Ph.D. of st911.org

JF: The towers were loaded with asbestos...

GN: That's why so many thousands of people are still getting sick.

JF: They're dying from it George, they're dying from it. The EPA even lied to the New Yorkers. This is so criminal its unbelieveable. They told them that it was not toxic dust when in fact the opposite was the case- this is a shock! And that the New York Times should ignore all of this is an atrocity!

Of course this was extremely toxic dust, but rather than alarm the public, the EPA blatantly lied, "to boost morale" by re-opening Wall St.

What kind of people would put thousands at risk to "boost morale"?

This huge lie could help open the eyes of millions of Americans- many still dismiss the unanswered questions about 9/11 because, who could believe their gov't willfully killed 3,000 citizens to justify launching wars in the Middle East?

Well it turns out this statement will be responsible for many more than 3,000 deaths.
"I'm glad to reassure the people of New York that their air is safe to breathe."
EPA Chief Christine Todd Whitman
http://benfrank.net/patriots/news/criminals/epa_lied

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lib Grrrrl]

26. Hey...Got Something For You...

:tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat:

Jeez, now if THAT isn't a whacked-out theory...I mean, we SAW FILM of planes hitting the towers...

[proud2BlibKansan]

32. So I take it you haven't seen the film 'Loose Change'?

http://www.loosechange911.com/

Watch this and you will understand the above poster's reference to bombs hitting the buildings.

[Lib Grrrrl]

44. I Know About That, But This Guy Is Suggesting Freaking NUKES!!!

no way, Jose.

I've seen the films that at least make it APPEAR as though WTC #7 had a missile fired at it. And it may well have. I'm not disputing that possibility. But NUKES??

Then where was the fucking mushroom cloud?

[proud2BlibKansan]

45. I have learned not to put anything past this administration

[Lib Grrrrl]

47. There Isn't Much I Put Past Them, Either, But NUKES?? Come On!!!

I wanna see some real, unimpeachable evidence, before I even begin to entertain notions that NUKES might've brought those towers down.

[proud2BlibKansan]

48. A year ago I would have been right there with you

but not anymore.

[Lib Grrrrl]

63. As Much As I Hate Bush And The BFEE, And His Administration

I just cannot honestly make myself believe that he would willfully and knowingly use fucking NUKES against American citizens. He's a dumb-ass, he's sick, evil, twisted...I accept all that. But NUKES?? If you want me to take that accusation seriously, you'd best come up with some damned rock-solid evidence from very reliable sources.

I mean, I hate Bush as much as the next of us, and I'd gladly vote the death-penalty on him for crimes against humanity for what he's done so far. But NUKES?? Against Americans? On 9/11? Against the WTC? I just can't make myself believe that without some damned good proof.

Whatcha got?

[Blackthorn]

86. Melted steel in the basement for days.

Extraordinary hotspots for weeks centred on the two towers.

The Loose Change and other 9/11 documentaries floating around will be more beneficial than taking posters posts at face value.

[Tace]

65. The Reply Has Been Deleted -- However There WAS Radioactivity

There were thousands of smoke and CO2 detectors in the buildings that fell. Every one of these smoke detectors contains some radioactive isotope with a half-life of 500 million years or something (This is all just off the top of my head. I studied the matter just after 9/11 when I was warned by a friend who knows about these things.

In other words, in a sense, the collapse of the World Trade Center buildings was indeed a kind of dirty radioactive bomb, and not an insignificant one.

[rumpel]

33. Yes

Scientists from various Univesities send data to one depository Columbia University. I believe they still continue to monitor the soil, air and water on both sides of the river.

http://wtc.hs.columbia.edu/wtc/wtc.aspx

[BrklynLiberal]

78. They didn't lie to 'boost morale'. They wanted Wall St opened as soon as

possible because they were interested in the $$$$$$$. We all know that, don't we?

Of course this was extremely toxic dust, but rather than alarm the public, the EPA blatantly lied, "to boost morale" by re-opening Wall St.

[shance]

5. I don't exactly anticipate rich good ole boy networks broadcasting this.

Or at least I haven't seen much coverage.

Im at least glad to see the Post has now granted us its once a year truth capitulation article.

[guruoo]

6. These bellyachers are endangering national security...

:sarcasm:

[rocktivity]

7. Wait until those who returned to the WTC area thinking the air was safe

because a Bush report LIED to them about it start coming down with respiratory ailments.

:headbang:
rocknation

[flyarm]

27. they already are!!...and all the dogs used in the search and rescue died

by early last year..every single dog!!

fly

[Branjor]

59. Yes...

I met two such dogs and their owners when I took my own dogs to the vet. One I met at the Garden State Veterinary Specialists and one the day she had to put her dear companion down at my vet's just outside of Atlantic City. :cry:

[Virginia Dare]

72. Did the dogs have cancer as well?...n/t

[Ladyhawk]

81. What was the median age of the dogs used in S & R?

As you know, four years = 28 human years. My guess is it takes quite awhile to train a search and rescue dog. Another good question: At what median age did these dogs die and what caused their deaths? Four years is a long time in the life of a dog.

I guess I just want more info.

[OnyxCollie]

85. I went to a lecture by a woman who trains search & rescue dogs.

She said she starts training the dogs at two years old. It takes two years to train the dogs, and their career is a little over two years. By seven years old, they're already retired. She did say that she refused to take her dogs to ground zero because she feared the pollutants.

[Ladyhawk]

90. Interesting. The dogs would have been a little on the old side,

but they should not ALL have died. Yet another sad aspect to this whole tragedy. :(

[Doctor_J]

8. SMirk's EPA is as useless as his air defense,

his treasury, his DHS, and his FEMA. One more in a long line of disasters administered by George W. Loser.

[BrightKnight]

35. They didn't get in the way of the photo ops. - n/t

[DemonFighterLives]

61. All his criminall appointees are losers

I don't quite see how they bought off everything like the EPA so fast. I even imagined people there that may be concerned with Our environment.
:silly:

[Canuckistanian]

9. Remember this? "Deadliest Shirt in the World"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x990907

[w4rma]

10. DUers predicted this would happen almost the day after the towers fell. nt

[rocktivity]

20. I moved away from downtown Jersey City NJ the Saturday before 9/11

which is across the Hudson River from the WTC area. Three weeks later, my former landlord told me that things had gotten back to normal in the area "except for the smell."

:headbang:
rocknation

[applegrove]

11. That is so sad. That is terribly, terribly sad.

[Botany]

12. but what about?

the chants of:
U.S.A. U.S.A. U.S.A. U.S.A. U.S.A. U.S.A. U.S.A. chants

the EPA was told to stand down on their air quality tests .... tons of asbestos, silicates,
powered concrete, and God knows what else was in that air @ ground zero.

Sadly the rescue workers were just props in this sick ass neo con play.
Wave the flag and kill the heros. bush must pray every night that there
is no God of judgement.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0910-07.htm

[shance]

13. "I'm glad to reassure the people of New York their air is safe to breathe"

EPA Chief Christine Todd Whitman

[Mythsaje]

14. Well, it was a death sentence for the rescue dogs...

Every single dog involved in the operations in the aftermath are dead now.

Or so my wife just told me.

[flyarm]

28. your wife is correct..early last year the last dog died that was a

search and rescue dog...every single dog died..

fly

[flyarm]

29. WTC Rescue Workers' Health Suffering, Government Says

mods this link no longer works..it is old..but i saved in my files...if you feel the need to remove..ok...but i will post all the vital stuff in this article..

link no longer works...this is from sept 9 2004

WTC Rescue Workers' Health Suffering, Government Says
Thu September 09, 2004 04:29 PM ET

snip:
NEW YORK (Reuters) - Nearly half of the more than 1,000 screened rescue workers who responded to the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks suffer from new or exacerbated respiratory, mental and other health problems, according to a government report released on Thursday.
The report, from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, is the second released in two days to find that firefighters, police officers and volunteers show persistent effects from environmental toxins and psychological stress.

On Wednesday, a similar study from the Government Accountability Office, the investigative arm of Congress, noted that many rescue workers suffer wheezing, shortness of breath, sinusitis, asthma and a syndrome called "WTC cough."

The latest health study, conducted at Mount Sinai School of Medicine, showed that nearly half of the 1,138 people screened had problems that either began or worsened after being exposed to the dust, airborne toxins and pollutants unleashed by the collapsed buildings.

"These preliminary findings of the WTC Screening Program demonstrate that large numbers of workers and volunteers suffered persistent, substantial effects on their respiratory and psychological health as a result of their efforts," said Dr. Stephen Levin, co-director of the World Trade Center Worker and Volunteer Medical Screening Program.

Of those screened, 51 percent suffered mental health problems and their risk of post-traumatic stress disorder was four times the rate of the disorder in the general male population, the report said.

The analysis is part of a broader study of about 12,000 people being evaluated at Mount Sinai.

The CDC also released results of the first phase of an investigation, conducted with the Mailman School of Public Health at Columbia University, into the evacuation process at the World Trade Center.

The report looked at the factors influencing decisions people made as to whether to leave the twin towers once the attacks had begun. Some were delayed due to concern about getting permission from their bosses while others stayed to shut down computers and collect personal items.

snip:

A separate report published on Wednesday in the journal Environmental Health Perspectives found that pregnant women who were close to the World Trade Center at the time of the attack were more likely to give birth to lower-weight babies.

The CDC said that only 21 percent of the workers and volunteers participating in the screening program had appropriate respiratory protection between Sept. 11 and Sept. 14, 2001, the days when the impact of dust, diesel exhaust, pulverized cement, glass fibers and asbestos was considered the greatest.

The CDC plans to continue medical screening for five years.

[bdamomma]

67. God, that is so sad

everyone knows that the air quality of the aftermath of 9/11 was bad, they were pushing the people to go back and support (money wise) the city like nothing never happened.

[blues90]

15. I'm not surprised

What about asbestos and all the other toxins that come out of burning plastics and other building materials ? Asbestos was removed from alot of older buildings but certainly not all of them and it has been linked to types of cancer ?

There was dust everywhere even inside apartments and homes .

[Scout1071]

16. I was there on Oct 1, 2001 and went to Ground Zero.

I just had to see it while I was in town and I wanted to support the rescuers. I went alone.

My eyes and throat burned for days. I had to wear my sunglasses and cover my nose and mouth with my shirt. And the site was still burning/smoldering. I can't imagine what they went through in that clean-up/rescue. My prayers are with all of them.

[shance]

17. Thanks for posting.

I can't imagine either.

Now they are invisible and further vulnerable to those who in power who cut their funds and make them fight for the health care and treatment which should be without a second thought.

[nolies32fouettes]

19. Does anyone remember how they said it was safe?

Get back to normal?

How many of these New Yorkers don't have health insurance to pay for their illness now?

[flyarm]

38. SEE MY POST #34....N/T

[Lib Grrrrl]

21. Mesothelioma

is definitely related to 9/11 rescue work, because the only way you GET mesothelioma is thru exposure to asbestos.

And did the reports not say something about how the lower levels of the WTC had the heat-insulating asbestos insulation that upper floors did not...which is why the supports on the upper levels melted and gave way, causing the "pancake" effect of one floor collapsing on top of another, as what happened when the Trade Towers came down?

This is focussing only on rescue workers and first responders...but I wonder just how many SURVIVORS of 9/11 were exposed to the same things, in evacuating the buildings...and how many of THEM also have cancers now? and do we count THEM also as victims of 9/11? Surely, had 9/11 not happened, many of these people would not have cancer now, because they would not have been exposed to the carcinogens that led to the onset of their cancers. Ya think?

So we still don't have an accurate count of the casualties of 9/11. These cancer sufferers are every bit as much a victim of terrorism as those who actually died on 9/11. and the question is still there...How much did Bush know, and when did he know it? What steps did he take, or fail to take?

SOMEONE knew enough to warn John Ashcroft not to fly commercial in the summer of 2001. SOMEONE knew enough to short-sell stocks of American and United Airlines in the week prior to 9/11. SOMEONE either ordered our Air force to stand-down that day...or failed to correctly assess the situation and send up a few sorties of F-16's.

When golfer Payne Stewart's Learjet went off-course, as a result of explosive decompression, instantly killing everyone on board, it took Air force 16 minutes to intercept that plane, and they followed it two hours until it crashed in south Dakota. Yet, it took the Air Force over an hour to scramble some fighters after the first tower was hit...and by then, the second tower, and the Pentagon had been hit. So what's up with that? As Truth might say..."Whudafxup?"

[quickesst]

23. Actually...

The temperatures of the fires never reached the point of melting steel. If people know that, they may look a little deeper. Maybe not. I hope so though. Whether it's stated here or anywhere else, it's still a fact. Thanks.
quickesst

[Lib Grrrrl]

25. ACTUALLY...

you are correct, but the extreme temperatures that the fires reached DID cause the support beams to weaken where not insulated...and they could no longer support the weight that they had to support, and they gave way.

No, the beams did not actually MELT, but they did soften considerably. Enough so that they were no longer able to perform their function.

Mea culpa.

[flyarm]

39. THEY SHOULD NOT HAVE EVEN SOFTENED..AIRPLANE FUEL

BURNS ONLY APPROX 550 DEGREES CENTIGRADE...

you have been lied to..

fly

[Lib Grrrrl]

42. Well, This Is What Was Reported

this is what was in the newspapers, etc.

That is what I am basing that on...my recollection of what was reported in the days subsequent to the 9/11 tragedy.

[flyarm]

43. they are all liars!!

fly

[Lib Grrrrl]

46. Well, Again...I'm In No Position

To say they are or are not liars, I have only stated what I recall having been reported at the time. I have no idea what temperature jet-fuel burns at, nor the temperature at which steel either melts or softens.

I am not qualified, by my own experience, to say whether this reporting was truthful or not...just that it was reported as such, in my recollection.

Now, my father, had he not died in 1999, might have actually been a better person to ask, as he was in the roofing and waterproofing industry, and in fact worked on The Sears Tower, the John Hancock Building, and The Standard Oil Building, all skyscrapers in Chicago.

I just do not work in an industry, nor do I have experience or education in the building trades that would enable me to say these reports were true or false. I accepted them as true at the time.

Have you some links to reliable sources that can reliably debunk the reporting of those early days immediately following 9/11?

All I do remember is something about how the absetos insulation was not used in support beams above a certain story, like, in the 60's somewhere...my memory does not serve to quote exactly. But it was, at the time, reported that, had those support beams been insulated the same as lower-level support beams, that the buildings might not have collapsed.

At any rate...my whole point in mentioning all of this is the fact of the existence of Asbestos. And asbestos exposure is the only known way to contract Mesothelioma...so it is fair to say that any rescue worker that contracted that specific cancer, Mesothelioma...could probably trace the exposure back to their rescue efforts.

somehow, we got off on a different tangent that I don't much care about. My main point was to point out the existence of Asbestos in the construction of the WTC...and the link between asbestos exposure and mesothelioma.

[Rainscents]

51. Here is excellent link!!!

Over 300 Scientist all over the world did the investigation!

http://www.st911.org/

[flyarm]

52. iam ..

retired flight crew of one of the airlines involved..i am telling you aircraft fuel does not burn hotter than 550 degrees centigrade...

..they lied..and you along with many in this country believed them..they are all fucking liars!

fly ..flight attend of the year NY base 2001 for one of the airlines involved in 9/11

[flyarm]

53. P.S. the only truth i have read in any news articles..is gail sheehy!!

gail sheehy Ny Observer

she is the only one of a few..i have read truth from!

look her up and check her archives!

2/16/2004 edition of The New York Observer.
agent.indexOf("5.0b1")

and David Ray Griffin, Ph.D.

and an excellent book by peter lance...9/11 coverup
excellent!

and if you want some truth..go to 9/11 board on du..a great writer there is Paul Thompson..he wrote the 9/11 timeline...

please educate yourself...

its your country too!!

fly

[whopis01]

83. Temperature

You are correct about the burning temperature of jet fuel. However, by the time you raise steel to 600 degrees centigrade, it will have lost about half of its strength. 550 degrees is clearly nowhere near the melting point, but it is getting up around the point where the steel will be severly weakened.

[flyarm]

87. then why are these the only failures in history..at this low level of temp

please see the hotle that burned for close to a week in spain...the building was gone but the steal was still standing..
jet fuel does not burn "hot"

and how do you explain building 7????????????????????????????????????

no plane hit it..and the order came to pull it late in the afternoon..with very little fire in the building..so how did they pull it so quickly..it takes quite some time to set a building up to pull it..so when did they plant the explosives on that building??????????????????

[Lib Grrrrl]

89. I Agree There Are A Lot Of Unanswered Questions

and, as much as I'd like to lay it all at the feet of George W Bush, and say it was all planned, and part of a nefarious plot and plan...I just can't do that without better evidence.

The best we can say right now is that there are a hell of a lot of unanswered questions. The fact that the Boosh Administration does not seem to WANT them answered certainly reflects badly on him...why would he not want to have these questions answered? What is he afraid we will learn?

But I'm not prepared to jump to the most radical of all conclusions, either....including the possibility of NUKES having been used on the buildings. That's just a little too far left-field.

Again, I say there's a lot of unanswered questions...and a lot of questions that, unfortunately, probably never WILL get answered. Was there possibly a dirty bomb used? could be, I suppose. Then again, aren't there a number of materials used in the construction of these building that, when combined chemically, and subjected to heat...could produce radiation?

There just a lot of unknowns in there, and I really want to see someone address the unknowns with various hypotheses, and tell us what is good, and what is not good, about each hypothesis. not just take the one hypothesis that reflects most negatively on Boosh, and run with it as if it were Gospel truth.

That said, I sure hope we CAN find a way to pin it all on Boosh, so he can rot in The Hague for the rest of his miserable life! BUT WE NEED ACTUAL SCIENTIFIC PROOF TO PUT HIM THERE!!

[flyarm]

93. PROBABLY THE TOUGHEST THING ANY CITIZEN CAN PUT THEIR ARMS

around is a conspiracy done to harm its own citizens..for profit ...

and for ideology...

i wish i had the freedom from the knowledge i have to... not know!!

i do not have that freedom..and it was even hard at first for me to wrap my arms around the fact that my own government was complicit in killing my co-workers, and my neigbors, and people i grew up with ..

but i knew immediately...that the story they were telling was pure unadulterated bullshit!

pure lies...

my experience and training did not allow me to be fooled..not for a minute...

the entire oficial story is nothing but a farse...

what is harder for me to grasp today is the lack of common sense of the American people..and the total ignorance..and lack of curiosity to look further than their own noses!!

and that Americans could fall so easily like a bunch of cowards..to afraid of truth...

i fully understand the horror of knowing our government could be complicit in 9/11 in the first few months..but not now..not now that so many have come forward..and laid it out...

i wondered who were the fools who bought duct tape and plastic for their homes..now i believe there were so many who just wouldn't admit it..

and the people who take their freaking shoes off at the airport when less than 1% of air cargo is being checked..are people really this stupid??..i ask myself that, all the time...and i get the answers all the time...yes American people choose to be stupid..those who will not ask questions and are just programed..for fear...

it has made me go back into history and read how the Germans were fooled..
my conclusion is ..they didn't know better...but we are worse..we know and we choose to ignore history..

to all our peril!!

fear and blind faith are our worst enemy...and laziness...and lack of curiosity..

truth hurts many times..but it is our only salvation...

fly

[Lib Grrrrl]

95. Again...You`re Insisting On Your Version, But Offering Me NO SOURCED FACTS

Once again, you are sitting here, just saying "take my word for it, I know everything" and offering me no independent, sourced FACTS.

Look, I'd LOVE to be able to lay everything at GWB's feet and say he's guilty, he did it, he planned it, he's an evil, horrible monster.

BUT, with the legal training I have had, I can't do that...I need something more substantive. I need some SOURCED DOCUMENTATION that appears to lend creedence to your claims.

You have offered none, and continue to screech, "just believe me...just believe me!"
I WANT to believe you, because anything that hurts Boosh is, in my opinion, absolutely terrific! I can't stand the motherfucker!

but I still cannot, without some really solid proof, go around spreading or promoting the idea that Boosh actually planned, and had these attacks carried out.

I CAN believe that at least he KNEW something, and chose to do nothing. But to say he was an active planner/participant in the attacks?? That's just too far without some damned rock-hard proof. The kind of proof we could use to get his ass slammed into The Hague.

[The Straight Story]

91. Jet fuel....Plus some explosions, and severe plane damage

But then - explosions don't cause buildings damage and make them fall down. I saw a plan explode into a building that day. And a few days ago we saw a small 500lb bomb explode into a building.

Explosions, fires, structural damage. Seems like a good combo to me to bring down a building.

[flyarm]

55. experts from Underwriter Laboratories found that the WTC buildings could N

http://www.reopen911.org/

- Did you know experts from Underwriter Laboratories found that the WTC buildings could NOT have been brought down by jet fuel, leading many to conclude that only "controlled demolitions" requiring pre-meditated action to plant explosives by insiders could have brought them down?

- Did you know that the WTC buildings were the FIRST 3 SKYSCRAPERS IN HISTORY TO BE DEMOLISHED BY FIRE. And one of them wasn't even hit by a plane on 9/11.

- Did you know that several of the 9/11 hijackers were trained on US military bases, by US covert operations before 9/11?



***letter to david ray griffin from a whistle blower from Underwriter Labratories


Letter to NIST from Underwriters Lab. employee


Dear 9/11 Colleagues:

For some reason, I received a copy of a letter from Keven Ryan of
Underwriters Laboratories to Frank Gayle of NIST.

Thinking that this letter should get more general exposure, I wrote to Ryan
to ask his permission for forward it to others. He wrote back, saying:

"David,

My sincere hope is that Dr. Gayle, whose work seems very straightforward,
will come forward with a strong statement about this issue. I'd like to
see him become one of the champions of truth, like yourself, Catherine and
many others. Will forwarding this message to others make this more
possible? If you feel that it would, then please forward as you see fit.
Thanks.
Kevin Ryan"

So you are free to post it or distribute it as YOU see fit.
DG


From
Kevin R Ryan/SBN/ULI

11/11/2004 06:57 AM


To

[e-mail]

cc

[e-mail]


Dr. Gayle,


Having recently reviewed your team's report of 10/19/04, I felt the need

to contact you directly.


As I'm sure you know, the company I work for certified the steel

components used in the construction of the WTC buildings. In requesting

information from both our CEO and Fire Protection business manager last

year, I learned that they did not agree on the essential aspects of the

story, except for one thing - that the samples we certified met all

requirements. They suggested we all be patient and understand that UL was

working with your team, and that tests would continue through this year.

I'm aware of UL's attempts to help, including performing tests on models

of the floor assemblies. But the results of these tests appear to

indicate that the buildings should have easily withstood the thermal

stress caused by pools of burning jet fuel.


There continues to be a number of “experts” making public claims about how

the WTC buildings fell. One such person, Dr. Hyman Brown from the WTC

construction crew, claims that the buildings collapsed due to fires at

2000F melting the steel (1). He states "What caused the building to

collapse is the airplane fuel…burning at 2,000 degrees Fahrenheit. The

steel in that five-floor area melts.” Additionally, the newspaper that

quotes him says “Just-released preliminary findings from a National

Institute of Standards and Technology study of the World Trade Center

collapse support Brown’s theory.”


We know that the steel components were certified to ASTM E119. The time

temperature curves for this standard require the samples to be exposed to

temperatures around 2000F for several hours. And as we all agree, the

steel applied met those specifications. Additionally, I think we can all

agree that even un-fireproofed steel will not melt until reaching red-hot

temperatures of nearly 3000F (2). Why Dr. Brown would imply that 2000F

would melt the high-grade steel used in those buildings makes no sense at

all.


The results of your recently published metallurgical tests seem to clear

things up (3), and support your team's August 2003 update as detailed by

the Associated Press (4), in which you were ready to “rule out weak steel

as a contributing factor in the collapse”. The evaluation of paint

deformation and spheroidization seem very straightforward, and you noted

that the samples available were adequate for the investigation. Your

comments suggest that the steel was probably exposed to temperatures of

only about 500F (250C), which is what one might expect from a

thermodynamic analysis of the situation.


However the summary of the new NIST report seems to ignore your findings,

as it suggests that these low temperatures caused exposed bits of the

building’s steel core to “soften and buckle”(5). Additionally this

summary states that the perimeter columns softened, yet your findings make

clear that “most perimeter panels (157 of 160) saw no temperature above

250C”. To soften steel for the purposes of forging, normally temperatures

need to be above1100C (6). However, this new summary report suggests that

much lower temperatures were be able to not only soften the steel in a

matter of minutes, but lead to rapid structural collapse.


This story just does not add up. If steel from those buildings did soften

or melt, I’m sure we can all agree that this was certainly not due to jet

fuel fires of any kind, let alone the briefly burning fires in those

towers. That fact should be of great concern to all Americans.

Alternatively, the contention that this steel did fail at temperatures

around 250C suggests that the majority of deaths on 9/11 were due to a

safety-related failure. That suggestion should be of great concern to my

company.


There is no question that the events of 9/11 are the emotional driving

force behind the War on Terror. And the issue of the WTC collapse is at

the crux of the story of 9/11. My feeling is that your metallurgical

tests are at the crux of the crux of the crux. Either you can make sense

of what really happened to those buildings, and communicate this quickly,

or we all face the same destruction and despair that come from global

decisions based on disinformation and “chatter”.


Thanks for your efforts to determine what happened on that day. You may

know that there are a number of other current and former government

employees that have risked a great deal to help us to know the truth. I've

copied one of these people on this message as a sign of respect and

support. I believe your work could also be a nucleus of fact around which

the truth, and thereby global peace and justice, can grow again. Please

do what you can to quickly eliminate the confusion regarding the ability

of jet fuel fires to soften or melt structural steel.


1. http://www.boulderweekly.com/archive/102104/coverstory.html

2. CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics, 61st edition, pg D-187

3. http://wtc.nist.gov/media/P3MechanicalandMetAnalysisofSteel.pdf

4. http://www.voicesofsept11.org/archive/911ic/082703.php

5. http://wtc.nist.gov/media/NCSTACWTCStatusFINAL101904WEB2.pdf ,pg

11

6. http://www.forging.org/FIERF/pdf/ffaaMacSleyne.pdf


Kevin Ryan

Site Manager
Environmental Health Laboratories
A Division of Underwriters Laboratories

South Bend

[dkos refugee]

82. not just asbestos

Everything in thos buildings was crushed and the dust was breathed by thousands of people. Those buildings were pulverized, they did not merely collapse. And we owe it to the thousands who are going to die from what they breathed to get to the truth of what happened. Are you in an office building? If so, you need only look around you. There are hundreds of hazardous compounds contained within any office building. There's no way a normal building collapse should have pulverized so much, but that's what happened and I don't consider it "tangential".

[DemonFighterLives]

62. Thanks for correcting that!

The fireball on the second tower was mostly on the outside and consumed the fuel.

I was kinda saying, uh duh to this story. Gee, a rash of cancers and other maladies and "we" don't know if it is connected to 9/11. :argh:

[dysfunctional press]

71. bullshit.

The fireball on the second tower was mostly on the outside and consumed the fuel.

only a small portion of the planes fuel load would have accounted for the fireball.
the rest of the fuel soaked into things like carpeting, office furnture, ceiling tiles, and burned for quite awhile.

[DemonFighterLives]

96. Does mostly mean anything to you?

Are you an expert on the official word?

[Rainscents]

50. YOU BEEN LIED TO!!!

http://www.st911.org/

Start reading this site... Real scientist over 300 of them investigated 9/11 buildings and the pentagon.

[CatFelyne]

92. respiratory illnesses linked to exposure

I also can't understand why there's doubt around the cause of the 9/11 workers illness. My father in law died from mesothelioma almost 4 years ago. He worked in New York on construction of the WTC. That began I think around 1966 or so. He came down with the cancer 30+ years later. And it wasn't just him, many of his fellow coworkers developed this also. There has been a large lawsuit ongoing as a result of this.

Now I'm not saying that there's not other ways of getting this rare cancer, but most people with malignant mesothelioma have worked on jobs where they breathed asbestos. An exposure of as little as one or two months can result in mesothelioma 30 or 40 years later, case in point, my father in law. For someone to come down with it this quick, I can only imagine how much and how high the levels of asbestos those workers were exposed to were.

Now consider these workers went home, or what not, covered with this dust and dirt. This puts many other people at risk; such as those who have had regular contact with a person who has worked with asbestos. Because these 9/11 workers carried dust and fibers on their clothes, skin, and in their hair, the fibers and dust could be ingested or inhaled by family members, who were then at risk of developing mesothelioma, respiratory problems or another asbestos related disease.

This has a major potential to be a large widespread health problem not only in the workers and their families, but the surrounding areas in the city as well.

[kestrel91316]

22. As soon as the towers fell, on Sept. 11, 2001, I was YELLING about

the asbestos that HAD to be in those towers. And yet within a couple of days the government was firmly declaring that the smoke and dust was utterly harmless.

Does anybody else remember this? It's not my imagination or a messed-up timeline in my hed???

[CoffeeCat]

24. Wasn't Christine Todd Whitman the EPA head then?

I thought I remember Todd-Whitman being the one to proclaim that all was safe, and that the air in and around "Ground Zero" was safe to breath.

I might be remembering this wrong, someone correct me if I'm incorrect.

If this is true...it's interesting that she quit the administration.

Maybe she was forced to give the ok---and found it hard to live with herself.

[BrklynLiberal]

30. Yes, she was the bitch that lied and gave the OK to everyone that it was

OK to go back to work, and come back to your apartments, and send your kids back to school down there. I hope she rots in hell, along with all the other BushCo minions who made up lies that will cost the lives and the health of all those who believed them. They put the opening of Wall St companies above the health of people who lived and worked down there.

Those that were working down in the pit during the actual recovery were not given adequate protective gear considering the danger they were dealing with on a daily basis.

All those search and rescue dogs actually had their noses IN the debris, and that is why they are all dead now.

Mount Sinai Medical Center has a program that is following the people that were involved in the rescue and recovery at the site. I believe they will be given free medical treatment. But those that came back downtown to work or to live are probably just going to screwed over when they get sick.

[CoffeeCat]

54. It makes you wonder why Whitman did quit...

She did not leave on good terms with the administration. I'm certainly not saying that she's a swell gal. However, it is a good thing that she got out. She is culpable for telling New Yorkers that it was safe to return, no matter what. However, I'm certain she was just the mouthpiece for an administration that was demanding that she say those exact words. Whitman should have come clean, and she has a tremendous amount of blood on her hands.

I did not realize that all of the dogs died. That is so sad...and so foreboding. It's devastating.

Also, I knew the fire/rescue personnel were in jeopardy, because they were working at Ground Zero. However, I hadn't heard that those working, living or going to school near the site were also getting sick. Is that really true? I apologize for not being more informed on this tangent of 9/11. It's so important.

At least once a day, I'm outraged by devastating information about the impact of this administration's evil, incompetence, and thuggery.

[shance]

49. That doesn't even touch on the explosives that brought down the towers

n/t

[The Straight Story]

94. Next time they say it is harmless, ask em about smoking in bars

and why there are so many laws against it :)

[flyarm]

31. Charges of a cover-up hit nerve with New Yorkers

from my files...

this was approx march 25 th 2004..
http://www.msnbc.com/avantgo/963407.asp?s=HEALTH

Anger builds over EPA's 9-11 report
Charges of a cover-up hit nerve with New Yorkers

snip:

Sept. 11 — Two years after the World Trade Center attacks, New Yorkers say they're outraged by reports that the White House influenced the Environmental Protection Agency to downplay hazards posed by the toxic dust that fell in an avalanche over the city. The EPA's acting chief defends the agency's actions after the attacks, saying it hopes to be better prepared for "the next time."

"I PRAY TO God that, as a country, in the event of another terrorist attack, God forbid, we as an agency would be equipped to get the data analyzed and posted to the public," EPA Acting Administrator Marianne Horinko told MSNBC in an exclusive interview. "All that was a huge challenge to us on 9/11 — coordinating communication among agencies, following incident command. God forbid there is a dirty bomb. I hope everyone knows their battle stations."

In the early days and weeks of the World Trade Center disaster, says Horinko, there was such chaos that mistakes were inevitably made.

"Did we rush out (too soon) with data? On balance, I think we used our best professional judgment in an atmosphere where people were clamoring for answers." But the agency wasn't trying to deceive the public, she claims.

However, a report by the EPA's Office of the Inspector General released on Aug. 21 states, among other criticisms, that the White House reviewed and even changed EPA statements about public health risks to make them sound less alarming. The report charges that the White House Council on Environmental Quality influenced "the information EPA communicated to the public through its early press releases when it convinced EPA to add reassuring statements and delete cautionary ones." The report cites "reopening Wall Street" and "national security" as reasons for the spin.

snip:

'WE WERE ALL LIED TO'
The EPA presented "an overriding message that there was no significant threat to human health" even though there was cause for caution, it concluded.

"When EPA made a September 18 announcement that the air was 'safe' to breathe, it did not have sufficient data and analyses to make such a blanket statement," said the OIG, adding that the agency was missing data on other pollutants, such as particulates and chemicals like PCBs. In addition, 25 percent of dust samples contained asbestos, a potent carcinogen.



That is cold comfort to many New Yorkers, particularly those still suffering health effects from exposure to the dust.


Ny'ers and NJ people have known this info..why do you think we never voted for these asshole liars in the whitehouse??

fly

[flyarm]

34. U.S. EPA LABOR UNIONS ON IMPROPER WHITE HOUSE INFLUENCE

FROM MY FILES..DATE APPROX 10/21 /2003
http://www.nteu280.org/Issues/nteu%209-11%20Statement.htm

NTEU CHAPTER 280 - U.S. ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY, NATIONAL HEADQUARTERS

STATEMENT OF U.S. EPA LABOR UNIONS

ON IMPROPER WHITE HOUSE INFLUENCE
ON EPA’S RESPONSE TO TERROR ATTACK OF SEPTEMBER 11, 2001

We, the undersigned representatives of the workers who perform health and environmental protection duties at the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency across America, express our anger and dismay over evidence of the White House’s improper actions in connection with communicating health risk information to emergency workers and residents in New York immediately following the terror attacks on that city on September 11, 2001.



EPA’s dedicated Civil Service employees performed their duties swiftly and competently following the terror attack, assessing as accurately as possible the environmental health risks faced by the brave rescue workers and nearby residents from toxic substances released in the attack. These workers reported to senior EPA officials their best estimate of the risks, and they expected those estimates and the accompanying recommendations for protective measures to be released in a timely manner to those who needed the information.



The public was not informed of all of these health risks, some of which were avoidable. This information was withheld from the public under orders from the White House. Instead, the Bush White House had information released, drafted by political appointees, that it knew to contradict the scientific facts. It misinformed. And many rescue workers and citizens suffered. Some citizens now face the long-term risk of asbestos-related lung cancer as well as other debilitating respiratory ailments as a result.



Little did the Civil Service expect that their professional work would be subverted by political pressure applied by the White House. This unwarranted and inexcusable interference with the professional work of the Civil Service by politicians reporting directly to President Bush caused rescue workers and residents to be exposed to health risks that could have been, indeed should have been, avoided.



We express our solidarity with the rescue workers and residents who were affected adversely by this outrageous action of President Bush’s staff. There is no excuse for White House politicians imposing their values and overriding the Civil Service’s best advice on protecting those still digging in the wreckage and those whose homes and offices were covered with toxic debris.



President Bush owes the rescue workers, residents, dedicated Civil Service workers and the American people more than an apology for his actions in this matter. President Bush should take steps to compensate the rescue workers and residents who were harmed by his administration’s actions.



AND THIS SENTENCE SHOULD GET YOU ALL!!..FLY



The President must pledge to never again order EPA to tell less than the whole truth about a public health emergency.

[flyarm]

36. 'Significant Adverse Effects' MAY 19 2004

FROM MY FILES...FLY

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5006568/site/newsweek/site/newsweek/

'Significant Adverse Effects'
Recent reports show that the dust from the World Trade Center attacks is more toxic than researchers initially realized—and so is the range of health problems in those exposed to it

By Jennifer Barrett
Newsweek
Updated: 12:11 a.m. ET May 19, 2004
May 18 - John Graham used to joke that his doctor would go bankrupt if he relied on him for income. The longtime carpenter, who was also trained as an emergency medical technician (EMT), was so seldom sick that he can’t recall taking anything stronger than an occasional aspirin for a headache. But that was before the September 11 attacks.

Now Graham carries a bag full of medications around with him each day. He takes 17 different drugs for ailments ranging from asthma to chronic infections, and sees his doctor so often that he’s had to ask the receptionist to call and remind him of upcoming appointments so he can keep track.

Graham, whose office was blocks from the World Trade Center, was able to get down to the Twin Towers so quickly after the first plane struck that he was standing across the street from the North Tower when the second plane hit. Because of his unusual combination of medical and carpentry skills, Graham ended up staying at the site for more than nine months helping out, despite his own mounting health problems. His first sought treatment three weeks after the attacks. The initial diagnosis: respiratory problems including asthma, and chemical burns on his esophagus and throat.

Doctors and researchers now believe that Graham is one of tens of thousands who suffer debilitating health problems stemming from their exposure to contaminants in the air around the World Trade Center site—and it’s not just rescue and recovery workers who are affected. A report published this month in the journal Environmental Health Perspectives found that pregnant women who were inside the Twin Towers or within a 10-block radius at the time of the attacks showed a twofold increase in the incidence of smaller than average infants compared to pregnant women in a demographically similar population who weren’t in Manhattan on September 11.

[Jazz2006]

37. Link doesn't work.

The scene was certainly a horrible toxic stew that the responders and rescuers and cleanup crews were breathing, and there should have been far better protection put in place for them.

That said, it doesn't mean that all of those who have since been diagnosed with various forms of cancer got it as a result of being at the scene.

I would not be surprised, though, if many of them are directly related to it.

Can't really comment any further without reading the whole story but the link in the OP isn't working.

[flyarm]

40. which link.the epa union link works for me..let me try again...

try this ..

http://www.nteu280.org/Issues/nteu%209-11%20Statement.htm


STATEMENT OF U.S. EPA LABOR UNIONS

ON IMPROPER WHITE HOUSE INFLUENCE
ON EPA’S RESPONSE TO TERROR ATTACK OF SEPTEMBER 11, 2001

[Jazz2006]

41. The link in the OP

doesn't work for me.


Hadn't got to the rest of the thead yet.

[jbnow]

56. Did rescue and clean up workers

quit wearing protective gear because of the EPA statements? Did enough even have it available to them? Was the statement made so that they would not have to provide the gear to protect them from inhalation or exposure to the toxins?

There would be no way to protect dogs really, their noses are important part of their work. I'm sure they'd risk the dogs if there was a chance of finding humans still trapped.

But were they all given initial warnings?

If the EPA or anyone else knew about the danger and lied...really that's murder. There's not a nicer way to put it.

[flyarm]

69. the epa hid the truth from the volunteer responders...on orders of

this white house!

and they did not have proper protective gear..because they were told the air quality was safe..when it was not even close to properly checked..see my post ..#34 for the epa union personel complaint..

the workers at ground zero were lied to as were all NY'ers...and NJ people...and yes ..it is murder!..a slow toxic murder...

fly

[flyarm]

88. it was not made avail to them..they were underprotected..and it was deemed

aok by the epa..under orders of this admin the epa witheld the truth from the volunteers!

and the entire city!!

fly

[lovuian]

57. This is just the Beginning ...Mesothelioma =Asbestos

and Benzene for the luekemias... New York's losses are going to be alot more...

It didn't have to be...

[Lib Grrrrl]

64. That Was My Whole Contributing Point That Got Sidetracked

and lost in a bunch of bullshit.

The fact is, there is only one cause of mesothelioma...and that is exposure to asbestos. Nothing else causes mesothelioma.

[Vidar]

58. How America rewards heroes.

[Little Star]

60. I hope Boosh breathed deep

when he had his megaphone photo-op. This government just does not care about its citizens. All those people should have free health care after that attack.

[bdamomma]

66. add these uncalled deaths

to the victims who died in Katrina, those who died in 9/11, and in Pennsylvania, the number of civilians and our troops to Bush's war criminal acts, his incompetent actions are more than enough to prosecute him. How many more have to die???

[earth mom]

77. Exactly-Dead by the BFEE hand!

:cry:

and

:grr:

and

:scared:

[shance]

80. Incompetence implies innocense/ignorance. They aren't innocent

and they sure aren't ignorant.

Its time to drop the incompetence illusion.

As long as we keep calling this intentional game "incompetence", we play their death game by their rules and they continue to work behind the scenes, dig our graves, all the while we stay in delirious "incompetent" denial.

[Brazenly Liberal]

68. My sister was one of the first medical rescue workers on the scene

She works with Americares, which had health workers on the scene even before the Red Cross. At the time they got there, it was still expected there would be many survivors who needed emergency care. The Americares workers were stationed in a building very near the towers.

Last year, she had 3 softball-sized tumors removed from her abdomen. Thank goodness they were non-cancerous, but the oncologist said they were very unusual. I suspect health problems in 9/11 rescue workers will ultimately be far-ranging.

[shance]

73. Wow. Im so sorry to hear that, but Im glad to hear they were benign.

What happened at Ground Zero is so much larger than asbestos.

Americans must demand answers. The 9-11 Commission was a lie and a cover-up and now its time for the truth.

[lovuian]

76. I'm so glad she is ok but this will strike fear and anger

at the workers who are First Responders...

[scorpiogirl]

70. Did anyone see the Montel show last Tuesday?

There was a segment about a couple where the wife was pregnant and the husband was a cop who spent a lot of time doing search and rescue down at ground zero only wearing a paper mask and ended up getting really sick from it. I don't think it was cancer but a 'mystery' illness where he coughed up stuff out of his lungs daily. Apparently, he could not get any doctors to treat him. The wife was so stressed about it that she had a heart attack or heart failure. I'm fuzzy on the details. But keep in mind this woman was probably in her 20's. The husband ended up dying two years after his wife and their child is now being raised by his parents. All of this is just so sad.

[shance]

79. No SG* But thank you for bringing us up to speed on what they covered.

These past five years have been nothing but intentional heartache and pain by the people in this Administration. They have inflicted death, tragedy and blunt trauma on hundreds of thousands of innocent people.

[Oilwellian]

74. World trade center attack: Libby, Montana

Much of the asbestos-tainted vermiculite that spewed from the collapsing World Trade Center was dug from a mine in the Cabinet Mountains above this picturesque Kootenai River town. And in Libby, as in New York, environmental and health officials failed to disclose just how dangerous the mineral could be.

Miners digging vermiculite ore at the now-closed W.R. Grace Zonolite mine in Libby breathed dust containing asbestos fibers, then carried it home on their clothes to their wives and children. Trucks carrying the dust spread it throughout the town, and trains hauled the potentially lethal cargo to almost 300 towns across the nation.

The company knew it was deadly. But it did not require miners to wear respirators. Federal and state officials knew the dangers, but they looked the other way.

Until, that is, the death toll began to climb.

So far, hundreds of miners and their relatives have succumbed to the diseases caused by the asbestos fibers that painfully destroyed their lungs. Hundreds more are clinging to a torturous life, sucking air from portable oxygen bottles. And the federal government says its testing has found signs of the disease in thousands more who have been examined.

EPA and federal health investigators have been virtually living in this tiny town in the western corner of Montana just below the Canadian border since November 1999. Most arrived three days after the Seattle Post-Intelligencer reported the deaths and contamination.They have studied the way asbestos kills - up close and far too personal.Their findings make suspect many of the absolute statements the government is making in playing down the hazards those living in lower Manhattan face from asbestos.

More here.

[flyarm]

75. reading this i am reminded of a young man approx 22 who was

in a local diner one day approx 3 weeks after the collapse..this was on the nj side of the water...he had on his fireman gear..he was tired and dirty..very dirty..his face was blackened..
i bought him lunch...as i was a flight crew of one of the airlines involved..it was the least i could do..and i felt honored to feed this young man...he had been digging he said for 5 days straight..at ground zero...
i still can close my eyes and see his face...
i had identified that i flew for one of the airlines..and he asked me to sit with him...while he ate...

he told me of the things he found..a leg..a finger...a wedding ring..a small framed picture...

i pray he is not one of the effected ones...he reminded me of my son..he was beautiful..even with all the soot on him...

i pray it was not asbestos..he was wearing home..and while he ate...

he was a young boy...

have i told you lately how much i hate these monsters in this government and administration...??

i hate them with all my soul...

fly

[shance]

84. *Kick*

n/t

[shance]

97. kick

n/t

[rman]

98. kick