IMHO this is the most important question I have ever asked my fellow DUers

[BigBearJohn]

As I lay awake in bed this morning, tears came to my eyes as I pondered the following questions:

• Can you still sing the words to "America, the Beautiful" and mean it?
  
  
• Does hearing "The Star Spangled Banner" still inspire you to stand and place
  your hand over your heart and make you proud to be an American?
  
  
• Does your heart burst with pride and do your eyes well up with tears while listening to
  the ensemble of piccolos play in "Stars and Stripes Forever"
  (Composed by John Philip Sousa on Christmas Day, 1896)
  Listen at: http://www.dws.org/sousa/ra/dws-ssf.ram
  
  
• Does the 4th of July mean anything to you besides a day off work and an excuse to watch free fireworks?
  
  
• Does America really stand for something or is it simply a piece of propaganda dreamed
  up by some Madison Avenue ad executive and then drilled into your head in grade school?
  

Then, I remembered a concert I went to at the Greek Theatre in Los Angeles during the late 60's. Comedian Dick Gregory was the opening act for a John Denver concert. Gregory got the audience really pissed off at the government and how badly it was treating its citizens. There was a palpable tension in the air that you could cut with a knife. The audience of 5,000 were pissed. Then Gregory leaves stage, the lights dim, the stage curtains open, revealing a stage with a backdrop of mountains and a campfire. John Denver appeared and began singing songs of "Poems, Prayers and Promises" and "Rocky Mountain High." After about 30 minutes, people started swaying, arm-in-arm, to the crystalline voice of John Denver singing "Sunshine on my Shoulder".

As Denver finished his show, the audience insisted, no, DEMANDED an encore. Once again, the curtains open and there is only a single, solitary spot light shining down on a small wooden stool. John Denver walks out with acoustic guitar in hand. The crowd sits back down and Denver begins to speak: "You know, a lot of people talk about how evil and uncaring our government can be. And they're right. But, that's not all there is to this country. How many of you have taken the opportunity to see this beautiful land of ours? The prairies, the oceans, the mountains, the fields of wheat? Well, when I was just a little boy, I heard a song that gave me chills the first time I heard it. It was my favorite song then, and it's still my favorite song now. If you'll let me, I'd like to sing it for you."

He picks up his guitar and in a boylike voice that only John Denver could muster, starts singing the haunting melody... "oh beautiful, for spacious skies, for ambers waves of grain." I was so choked up, I could hardly breathe, let along sing. After singing one verse, he asked the audience to sing along with him. And there it was, FIVE THOUSAND people who, an hour ago wanted to tear down the stadium, are now swaying arm-in-arm, singing "America the Beautiful" at the top of their lungs. Talk about an "It's a Wonderful Life" moment. This was it.

So, my question to you my dear DU-er compatriates, if you still believe in the dream that America once was, and could be again,

"What are YOU doing to help bring back the beauty that once was America?"

Please don't take any of this as me preaching from a soapbox.
I'm just talking to you as an ordinary guy, lamenting over the
oncoming fall of his nation.

O beautiful for spacious skies,
For amber waves of grain,
For purple mountain majesties
Above the fruited plain!

America! America!
God shed His grace on thee,
And crown thy good with brotherhood
From sea to shining sea!
O beautiful for pilgrim feet
Whose stern impassion'd stress
A thoroughfare for freedom beat
Across the wilderness.

America! America!
God mend thine ev'ry flaw,
Confirm thy soul in self-control,
Thy liberty in law.

O beautiful for heroes prov'd
In liberating strife,
Who more than self their country loved,
And mercy more than life.

America! America!
May God thy gold refine
Till all success be nobleness,
And ev'ry gain divine.

O beautiful for patriot dream
That sees beyond the years
Thine alabaster cities gleam
Undimmed by human tears.

America! America!
God shed His grace on thee,
And crown thy good with brotherhood
From sea to shining sea.

[mdmc]

1. I actually sang those songs in church

on Memorial Day. They still brought tears to my eyes.

I've been carrying nominating petitions for local dems... advocating for the sick and poor. I suggest everyone do the same..

[oasis]

2. Kerry summed it up in 2004 "Let America be America again." (n/t)

[Journeyman]

8. It was Langston Hughes in 1938 who expressed that ideal. . .

n/t

[seemslikeadream]

11. Let America be America again

Let America be America again.
Let it be the dream it used to be.
Let it be the pioneer on the plain
Seeking a home where he himself is free.

(America never was America to me.)

Let America be the dream the dreamers dreamed--
Let it be that great strong land of love
Where never kings connive nor tyrants scheme
That any man be crushed by one above.

(It never was America to me.)

O, let my land be a land where Liberty
Is crowned with no false patriotic wreath,
But opportunity is real, and life is free,
Equality is in the air we breathe.

(There's never been equality for me,
Nor freedom in this "homeland of the free.")

Say, who are you that mumbles in the dark?
And who are you that draws your veil across the stars?

I am the poor white, fooled and pushed apart,
I am the Negro bearing slavery's scars.
I am the red man driven from the land,
I am the immigrant clutching the hope I seek--
And finding only the same old stupid plan
Of dog eat dog, of mighty crush the weak.

I am the young man, full of strength and hope,
Tangled in that ancient endless chain
Of profit, power, gain, of grab the land!
Of grab the gold! Of grab the ways of satisfying need!
Of work the men! Of take the pay!
Of owning everything for one's own greed!

I am the farmer, bondsman to the soil.
I am the worker sold to the machine.
I am the Negro, servant to you all.
I am the people, humble, hungry, mean--
Hungry yet today despite the dream.
Beaten yet today--O, Pioneers!
I am the man who never got ahead,
The poorest worker bartered through the years.

Yet I'm the one who dreamt our basic dream
In the Old World while still a serf of kings,
Who dreamt a dream so strong, so brave, so true,
That even yet its mighty daring sings
In every brick and stone, in every furrow turned
That's made America the land it has become.
O, I'm the man who sailed those early seas
In search of what I meant to be my home--
For I'm the one who left dark Ireland's shore,
And Poland's plain, and England's grassy lea,
And torn from Black Africa's strand I came
To build a "homeland of the free."

The free?

Who said the free? Not me?
Surely not me? The millions on relief today?
The millions shot down when we strike?
The millions who have nothing for our pay?
For all the dreams we've dreamed
And all the songs we've sung
And all the hopes we've held
And all the flags we've hung,
The millions who have nothing for our pay--
Except the dream that's almost dead today.

O, let America be America again--
The land that never has been yet--
And yet must be--the land where every man is free.
The land that's mine--the poor man's, Indian's, Negro's, ME--
Who made America,
Whose sweat and blood, whose faith and pain,
Whose hand at the foundry, whose plow in the rain,
Must bring back our mighty dream again.

Sure, call me any ugly name you choose--
The steel of freedom does not stain.
From those who live like leeches on the people's lives,
We must take back our land again,
America!

O, yes,
I say it plain,
America never was America to me,
And yet I swear this oath--
America will be!

Out of the rack and ruin of our gangster death,
The rape and rot of graft, and stealth, and lies,
We, the people, must redeem
The land, the mines, the plants, the rivers.
The mountains and the endless plain--
All, all the stretch of these great green states--
And make America again!

[oasis]

30. A poem that visualizes America's redemption. Thanks.

[oasis]

29. Correct. Kerry always gave Langston Hughes credit for the phrase.nt

[bobbieinok]

73. + remember how RW screamed 'Kerry quotes a COMMUNIST'

[Journeyman]

78. Strong possibility Hughes was. . .

no evidence to prove it, and Hughes himself consistently denied it, but his writings during the '30s were definitely inspired by his association with the Left and there's ample reason to believe he held in common many of the same ideals as the CPUSA did in those years -- same as millions of other Americans.

Take care. Too late to write more about this, though its always a fertile field for discussion. Just remember, in those cases where membership in the CPUSA could not be proved, HUAC found fault with citizens for being "premature anti-fascists." That was the phrase. It meant exactly as it sounds -- the accused hated Hitler too early. How's that for a wringer of an indictment?

[HysteryDiagnosis]

3. You can take America out of the corporations and their strangle

hold.... but you can't take the corporations and their stranglehold out of America.

[StellaBlue]

4. I applaud your post, ...but...

"America" is and always has been a fleeting concept. One hundred years ago I would've been worthless unless I was the legal property of some man my father sold me off to. Fifty years ago, I wouldn't have been able to have credit in my own name. And if I wasn't white, it would be worse.

I never liked nationalism, or its more palatable brother, patriotism. They always rang hollow. All that is propaganda. Always has been - propaganda to get us to sell our souls to the elite. It's just gotten very transparent lately.

The world, life - is made up of people, not nations.

[hfojvt]

23. 100 years ago?

First, that's quite a dim view of marriage. In about 1906 my grandmother was fighting with her parents so she could goto high school. You know who really thought it was a dumb idea? Her mother. (and according to my dad's older female cousin, her grandma ruled the household). She graduated in 1912 and got a job teaching in one room schools, before going to the big city and graduating from the University of Wisconsin in 1926. Didn't get married until 1928. In 1906 her future husbands mother was raising three children by herself thanks to a husband who left her for another woman.

Further away from home, the divorced mother Charlotte Perkins Gilman was publishing her own feminist magazine Forerunner at about that time and Vida Scudder was living with her widowed mother and writing books and working as an English professor at Wellesley.

There were opportunities for young women far different from the hyperbolic metaphor of being sold by their fathers.

People form these associations called nations, and America has a tradition of being one of the first to say that the nation should serve the people, not the other way around. America is a land where people have rights, freedoms and opportunites. It does not live up to its ideals, but I think many of the ideals are still well worth cherishing.

[StellaBlue]

27. Totally agree.

I didn't mean to pretend that there were NO opportunities for women. Just that, at that time, we were not living up to our high-minded ideals. We never have. As long as the elite are in control, we never will.

[BrklynLiberal]

39. But truth be told, the ERA is still lanquishing unpassed.

[Zhade]

40. And THAT is just plain ridiculous.

:mad:

[sweetheart]

5. love the land, loathe the tyrants

The land is not the nation state, rather the nation state blights
the land and destroys it as much as possible... then remembers it in an
odd moment of ironic love for what it kills every day.

No song, no group hug, ends the tyrrany of an evil empire, 800 bases
spread out across the planet in a rote military war to supress and dominate
teh planet like a woman to rape at will. Nothing in the land says to
enslave humanity, to pollute and destroy for cheap gas and cable TV.

America is a great house, infested by rats.

[mdmc]

10. agreed sh

:kick:

[KoKo]

6. What a beautiful post.....the saddness of it is

that in that other "dark time" in America...we had a person like John Denver who saw beyond what was going on and could express "another vision."

In this "dark time" in America...the darkest in my lifetime, we seem devoid of those voices who can cut through the evil in DC and Wall Street and the wickeness of the voices like Ann Coulter who are out there spreading their vision of an America ruled by corporatists where "amber waves of genetically modified wheat, corn and switch grass" reign. Where the "purple mountain majesty" are harvested for "clean burning coal," where the "fruited plain" is sprayed with chemicals when it isn't being ravaged by tornados or drought from the destruction we've wreaked on it since the Great Environmental Movement of the 60's and 70's was destroyed by the Corporate evil doers.

That said:
As far as the rest of it, I believe in patriotism and believe in "We the People" and know that even if it takes small bands of us connecting through the internet all over this country we will have to be like the original founders who fought against tyranny from England and rally around our own "Liberty Tree."

I've found it hard to celebrate 4th of July since the Supremes gave Bush the Presidency and we invaded a country that had never done anything to harm us. It's very hard for me right now to jump up and rally round the flag that has been so desecrated by the Right Wing Republican evil doers.

I hope one day that we can all find voices who can express what John Denver was able to. Denver became a source of ridicule by many who found his work simplistic and his innocent love of people and life and America as syrupy and laughable. I wasn't one of those people and I can imagine that those people were some of the same ones hell bent on destroying everything that we ever believed this country could be.

Anyway, it's a beautiful post and those here who might not remember or appreciate Denver's music might want to download those songs you quote. It might restore a little light in their lives in these very cynical times.

Thanks....:-)'s

[BigBearJohn]

20. Thank you for your beautiful words. You and I see Denver the same.

[johnnie]

7. I still get choked up John

I have to be honest though, if it weren't for coming here to DU I don't know how I would feel. I wasn't here yet on 9/11 and I felt like I was totally alone in this country at the time.

As the war was being talked about I was so against it but felt like I was the only one until I stumbled upon DU and at once I felt like there were others out there that felt the same. I became a member here and even though there is a lot of head-butting here I know that 99.9% of the people here love this country and I feel like I am one of many who still feel like there is an America.

These days when I hear the songs or see something that is about America, I think of DU and it's members and know that we still exist. So yes, I do get the feeling of patriotism and all that because I have the thoughts of other DU people in my head when that stuff comes up.

[BigBearJohn]

22. You hit the nail on the HEAD. America is DU and places like it.

WE THE PEOPLE are America.
Not the selfish slobs who care only for themselves.

[Gregorian]

9. Don't believe the hype. Only democracy counts.

I never cared for flags. I love Souza, but the Stars and Stripes Forever is just one of his tunes.

And all of this talk about freedom. It's like asking for an ice cream cone without the ice cream. An old car with a new coat of paint is still an old car. It won't get you there. Give me democracy. Freedom doesn't exist without it. These idiots keep talking about Freedom® as though it just appears all on it's own. But what they don't say is that the people are the ones who create it. In their own twisted way, republicans think that it's smaller government that allows freedom to happen. Well it does- their kind of freedom. Freedom to pollute on someone else. Freedom to hate. Freedom to destroy what we all share.

There is hype, and there is reality. I like the solid function of reality. I don't care if it's ugly, as long as it runs.

And what about England? Belgium? Switzerland? Denmark? I'm not sure America is worth singing about any more. I might sing a line or two once I can see a doctor without going broke.

Give me democracy. Your flags and songs are meaningless.

[StellaBlue]

12. AMEN

I might sing a line or two once I can see a doctor without going broke.

This sums it up for me, totally.

[Gregorian]

35. Phew. I was a bit frightened to open my mouth like that.

Those are my innermost feelings. And they seem quite antiAmerican to those who don't understand the context.

It's a nation that was created out of bravery, pain, genius, and some luck. And to sound like I'm just dissing it is pretty edgy.

I like plain stuff. No fluff. Give me a country that has no parades but values diversity. That's where I want to live. Oh, I could go on and on. And bore everyone to death. (:

[omega minimo]

67. Actually, I was lookin to see if you had a Journal icon

thinking I'd like to see you OP on this.

:yourock:

[Gregorian]

68. Reeeeely?

I have a low self esteem being around such brilliant people. I don't even belong to the activist thingy. And a journal? But maybe I should start. I've come a long way in three years. But still, it's the accumulation of knowledge that so many people have around here that intimidates me. It seems to me that in order to have anything unique to say, one must have studied all of the basics. John Locke, Plato, Jefferson, and zillions of the major philosophers and economists. Obviously that isn't all there is to it.

Thanks! It means a lot to have support like that.

[omega minimo]

70. Seriesly?

I don't bump into you often Gregorian, but my impression is of a strong voice and thoughtful posts.

"But still, it's the accumulation of knowledge that so many people have around here that intimidates me. It seems to me that in order to have anything unique to say, one must have studied all of the basics. John Locke, Plato, Jefferson, and zillions of the major philosophers and economists. Obviously that isn't all there is to it."

Nah- you know that ain't true. Degrees guarantee nothing. Reading helps. Thinking a +. :evilgrin:

IMHO we have strong "real people" voices on DU that pipe up not often enough, maybe through that sort of intimidation, who have a lot to say and Democrats need them!!

And you've hit on a key here:

"Give me democracy. Freedom doesn't exist without it. These idiots keep talking about Freedom® as though it just appears all on it's own. But what they don't say is that the people are the ones who create it."

THAT IS TRUE AND BASIC AND RADICAL CUZ IT'S OVERLOOKED AND ASSUMED AND YOU JUST SAID IT OUT LOUD MR. EDGY!!

So simple a lot of "educated" people forget about it. :eyes: If we acted like we understand that, it would knock out a brazillion threads on how helpless and hopeless we are. Also end all the Nader-hating CUZ WE WOULD BE WORKING ON getting all the non-voters to VOTE!!

I might sing a line or two once I can see a doctor without going broke."

That's a gem.

"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors."

Did you think that one up, too :think: :hi:

[Gregorian]

71. That's Plato.

And I just energized my journal, thanks to you.

[omega minimo]

72. And the people get the government they deserve

:toast: look forward to reading it

[TallahasseeGrannie]

13. Perhaps it is my intensive study of genealogy

that frames my emotions, but I still feel that America is a special place. We are not saints. We stole the country from the natives. We have been guilty of all sorts of abuses and excesses. But no one can deny that millions of immigrants left starvation, servitude, and hopelessness to come here, and most of them found a better place. If they, themselves, did not, their children did.

We have much to be proud of and we have much work to do. I believe nationalism, specifically, and tribalism in general, is genetic to humans. We are what we are. Until we evolve past it, we will group. And I want my group to be something I am proud of. I always hope. I never lose hope.

[1620rock]

15. Well, once upon a time Charles Manson was a beautiful...

..little baby....and you know the rest. America has now gone down that same kind of road. Nothing to love here anymore....sad.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

18. Dear God!

Your pessimism astounds me!

Nothing to love here?

Let's see..I'll start with my community:

Hospice House: wonderful, amazing and loving place for lives coming to an end
The Family Homeless Shelter: brand new, very large cluster buildings for homeless families with daycare and services to get folks back on their feet
Railroad Square: An old railway area now rented out at low prices to talented artists for workshop and display
Tall Timbers Research: conservation area for the Red Hills, specializing in controlled burns, responsible for saving animal, plant and human life by stopping forest fires
The Junior Museum: Working 19th century Florida farm for children
The Tallahassee Ballet: Very successful dance troupe with strong outreach to inner city
Free breakfast and lunch programs in the public schools. No child is hungry at school, ever.
Kids' Care: wonderful low/mid income health care program
Florida Medicaid: delivered my latest grandchild beautifully in a high risk pregnancy (her parents have no income...full time student and mom)
Meals on Wheels: food for seniors and shut ins


Look around you. Don't see the Charles Manson in each child. See the future. The level of angst you are exhibiting can be paralyzing. Get out there and do something, help somebody. It is amazing how good you will feel!

[StellaBlue]

43. Sorry to intrude, but...

"see the Charles Manson in each child" cracked me up - even though you meant the opposite, that thought just stuck in my head, like some kind of twisted Satanic infomercial catchphrase. Like, rather than the UNCF's "A brain is a terrible thing to waste", it's "see the Charles Manson in each child". Just an absurdly hilarious thing. LOL

Okay, back to your regularly-scheduled programming.

:)

[TallahasseeGrannie]

50. LOL

I'll tell you the truth. I am a teacher. And usually the Charles Manson is the first thing I see in a child. Takes me a while to warm up to the little boogers! (after they do things like chase the goldfish in the bowl with their pencil, makes chains out of my paperclips, etc.)

[StellaBlue]

59. Haha

I bet that's the first thing you see. How funny. Well, thanks for doing the job! I know I couldn't. I'd go on a shooting rampage in a mall after one day, I fear. Little patience for children. Brave to Grannie!!!

[Raine]

25. I agree

sometimes I get disgusted and depressed but I still feel there is hope and I still love this country.

[Ksec]

14. I didnt leave America.

America left me.

Bring back the America that cares for her people.

[BlackVelvet04]

16. "What are YOU doing to help bring back the beauty that once was America?"

I'm looking at it through a wine induced haze. Works for me.

[mzteris]

17. Lately when I sing

The National Anthem - I keep getting visions of American soldiers killing people in my head and I weep. For the families of those they kill (whether they are "enemy combatants or innocents). And for our soldiers having to live and/or die for absolutely NOTHING in this godforsaken invasion.

I try to remember what this country used to stand for. Freedom. Truth. Honesty. We set a standard for so long. Now, though - I wonder how the rest of the world can allow us to even go on. We are definitely in the decline of America.

[rosesaylavee]

19. America is still here - what are you all talking about???

WE are what's great about America. Look at this wonderful site - there are 90,000+ of us bickering, arguing, sharing, informing, agreeing, motivating each other to do what must be done to get this country's govt back on track. This is our democracy at work - right here on DU.

WE are working together on this - along with so many others. And remember, close to half the country voted for Democratic leadership (probably more when we discover exactly what happened with the machines) in 2000 and 2004.

WE are the majority and our numbers are increasing every day. If we weren't, they wouldn't be so afraid of losing the November elections.

WE will get through this!

Again, WE ARE AMERICA and it is not lost - it is HERE...NOW! And because we are working so very hard together, we just may be able to reshape the country in better ways when the Dems get back in control. We will ask for safeguards to be instituted so cretins can't hijack the country again.

And, I can say a resounding YES to all your questions. Those songs and others make cry every time I hear them at athletic events. I stand and put my hand over my heart for the flag during parades, the 4th of July's fireworks are still wondrous for me and I still think of it as a great celebration of the greatest political experiment the world has known to date.

AMERICA is still here. No eulogies just yet please. I am not exactly living the dream and collectively we are in a hell of a mess on many many fronts - but I'll be damned if I give up on it while I still have breath in my body!

Peace.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

52. Amen

and Amen again.

[rosesaylavee]

55. I like your posts above...

Having a historical perspective on what America has done and not done in the past is very helpful. As this is NOT the first time America has not stood up for its ideals. And acknowledging and being grateful for what is helpful in the here and now in our individual communities is what will fight off the depression demons too!

Did you happen to read H2OMan's post the other day about power? It really spoke to me about where I am with the *Co regime and the fallout from their poor decisions and what I can do about it. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1374825

[marions ghost]

21. Without substance...

all these words and songs ring hollow.

I don't think they can ever mean what they once did to me. They don't apply to reality in any sense now...as much as I might wish them to be true and as uplifting as they sound. One of the latter stages of grieving is where you come out the other side and realize that you have to let go of even the fondest notions in order to move on. I can still appreciate what is good and positive, but I don't extrapolate that to have any larger meanings anymore. I can still have compassion for people, even the ones who have been turned into droids by our corporate masters, but no longer associate myself with a country that would treat its citizens as miserably as our 'leaders' have done. There's a certain freedom in letting go of all expectations, a kind of detachment. I work for social change because it is right in the moral sense, not because I believe in a mythological America. I have no idea where this country is going, but it would have to morph into something much more true to its ideals for me to buy into much noble rhetoric about it. I take everything pragmatically, rather than idealistically at this point. This is necessary just to cope, and I hope is not seen as an arrogant or lofty perspective.

I certainly don't put anyone down who needs the concept of a country to pledge allegiance to. It's just irrelevant to my life at this point.

[Booster]

24. I'm not sure I still believe in the dream that was America, but I

still believe in John Denver. I worked on his TV show and loved him. I recently bought 2 of his DVD's so I could always look at them and remember what a truly remarkable talented sweet man he was. I still miss John and all he stood for.

[Iowa]

26. I'll take a stab at this one...

"Does your heart burst with pride and do your eyes well up with tears while listening to the ensemble of piccolos play in 'Stars and Stripes Forever'?"

Visceral emotional reactions to images defined by geographical boundaries usually trigger my gag reflex. Such reactions tend to come from the same warm, muddled place in the gut where the sheeple incubate such illustrious quotes as: "Support our troops, support our President, and God bless America". So while it might feel all warm and fuzzy to be swept away in the general beauty and grandeur of it all, very bad things tend to be overlooked under the cover of emotionally based nationalism/patriotism. I believe the republic is better served with a skeptical populace who view the nation one person at a time, one issue at a time, and with a critical eye at all times.

So... I'll reserve my "heart bursting pride" moments and my "tear welling" moments for those whom I love, and for all the heroic, kind, and decent acts of individual human beings that are evident every single day.

[Asgaya Dihi]

28. I used to believe in it

These days I can't think "land of the free" without the irony of our prison statistics being the first thing coming to mind. Single most imprisoned nation in the world and with a racial balance several times worse than South Africa had at the height of apartheid.

There are things that give me hope. This board does, people like Feingold and Murtha do. A nation is the people, not a slogan or a song, and for too many years this one has been asleep. If we wake in time I'd like to see us have our nation back but it's going to take more of us than I see now.

What am I doing? Trying to take the drug war driven prison system apart mostly, and as I see other things I can have an effect on such as a media consolidation petition or whatever I do those too. This place is good for finding that stuff, and some places have mailing lists once you do it the first time.

[TriSec]

31. It's the pledge that does it for me...

I'm a Cub Scout leader...and for a number of years now I have felt uneasy standing up to lead the pack in the Pledge of Allegiance.

I used to love this country....I'm not so sure I can anymore. And it's doubly tough being a Scouter...I'm just supposed to teach the basics, but I think I'm teaching my scouts how to be liberals. Which isn't a bad thing, but I'm waiting for the day some wingnut comes down and makes a big stink about it.

[Cleita]

32. I can honestly say that I am no longer proud to be an American

until we put an end to our imperialism and warhawk principles.

[BigBearJohn]

33. MY ANSWER. . This puts me at total ease. Hope it does you too.

A friend just emailed it to me. Worth the read. Trust me.

http://www.commondreams.org/cgi-bin/print.cgi?file=/views06/0522-35.htm

[rosesaylavee]

51. Moyers speech was wonderful

Thanks for posting.

[redwitch]

53. God bless Bill Moyers

He gives me hope.

[bbgrunt]

34. No. I am totally cynical these days and wish I could go.

somewhere is this wide world that wasn't infected by the disease that has overtaken this country. Canada is beginning to toe the line. Australia and the UK have already succumbed. I do not wish to be a part of this debacle anymore.

[upi402]

36. I used to be patriotic that way, NO MORE

Symbols, songs and other patriotic totems evoke disgust in me now, sadness, melancholy.

[Laelth]

37. I hear ya ...

... but let me respond this way. These are the words I truly treasure ...

We, the people, in order to form a more perfect union,
establish justice, insure domestic tranquility,
provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and
secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity
do ordain and establish this Constitution
for the United States of America.

That which follows, our Constitution, our very system of government, is what is in jeopardy at the moment due to a regime that has pushed us to the brink of totalitarianism. It is those words that I treasure and which I fear are in grave danger.

The songs, the anthems, the 4th of July ... all of those are incidental to me. The Constitution is what really matters. That such words have meaning, such that they will be enforced by the courts, has been the bedrock of our system of checks and balances and has preserved our fragile republic for so many years.

Tears come to my eyes when I think of the damage the Repukes have done (since Reagan, really) to those treasured words.

Sing it with me now ...



:(

-Laelth

[newspeak]

81. I'm with you--it's the Constitution

that makes me think "America." Do you think more people would get it if we could make a song out of the words of the Constitution? Maybe some people then could at least memorize half of it.

[Senator]

38. Impeachment might make me sing again ... (but read the words)

Because impeachment, with recognition that stolen elections have real consequences, might mean we are moving to recovery and redemption.

But at the moment, even the song is a microcosm of the problem. It's currently false. Virtually all of us know only the title and first verse. Not unlike the headline, glossy, buzzword version of reality that the Euphemedia currently exists in and foists on the rest of us.

But the other verses no longer ring true. We no longer define our "soul in self-control" or our "liberty in law." We now shoot first and ask questions later. And we live under the lawlessness of signing statements (derived from delusions of Urinary Authoritarian Executive** power).

We no longer love "mercy more than life." We are now Torturers to the World and Global Rogue Terrist Snark Hunters.

We currently warrant neither grace nor crown.

We can return to the truth, to dignity, but it must begin with Stolen Election 2000 and include all the crimes against the (formerly) American People, who were "taken out of the loop" at that time.

It is our only moral, patriotic option. The only way to Redeem Our National Soul.

Until then, I sing protest songs as a real patriot should.


-----
**Based on the newly-discovered, "inherent" (i.e., faith-based) Constitutional Authority for an appointed ruler (as opposed to elected leader) to piss down the back of the American People and tell them it's raining.

[file83]

41. John Denver truly loved the outdoors...but they won't last for long if

the bastards in power have their way. The 60's was a long time ago and a lot has changed and continues to change, and unfortunately, gets worse.

As beautiful as that song and story is (it really was!), it won't protect us from the evil these corrupt politicians and greedy corporations want to do to our land and us.

[wickerwoman]

42. Honestly,

I've never meant any of those songs. And the reason is in here:

"God shed His grace on thee,
And crown thy good with brotherhood
From sea to shining sea!
O beautiful for pilgrim feet
Whose stern impassion'd stress
A thoroughfare for freedom beat
Across the wilderness."

I'm an atheist. What are "God shed His grace" and "God Bless America" and "under God" supposed to do besides exclude me? When did this become "God's country" to the exclusion of all other countries? I've found this arrogant and gauche since I was 7 years old.

And "across the wilderness"? Would that be the wilderness populated by 6 million people who within 200 years were reduced to less than 100,000.

The 4th of July has never meant much to me either. My father was permanently disabled by exposure to Agent Orange in Vietnam and spent most holidays involving fireworks having a PTSD attack and drinking heavily.

Do nice, helpful people live in America? Of course they do. But, do you think America has a premium on nice, helpful people? Do you think people are nicer or more helpful *because* they are Americans? A quick trip to pretty much any other country in the world will quickly dispel that notion.

I can't help but think the more we are Americans, the less we are world citizens and I always find it profoundly sad to listen to songs expressing pride in national identity. We should be proud of things we've done, not things we are. It's a short step from "Proud to be American" to "Proud to be a man" or "Proud to have blue eyes" or "Proud to be tall". I think the last thing the world needs is more people puffing themselves up over non-accomplishments.

If people are born with an instinctual desire to belong to a tribe, I guess I'm a mutant. I can't even get enthusiastic about supporting sports teams. Anyway, I don't mean to bring the thread down and you're all free to flame me, but I wanted to say honestly how I feel about the place I was born. It's a place. It's freer than some places and less free than others. As a goal, I'd rather see us moving towards democratic world government and the eventually colonization of space than "bringing back the beauty that was once America" but which existed much more as idea than as reality.

[tomreedtoon]

44. Try these two things: Disney and Francis Scott Key.

The thing that makes me cry is at Walt Disney World. In the presentation "The American Adventure" there is very little jingoism. For the most part, the presentation emphasizes that people had to struggle, fight and suffer during our nation's time.

The climax of the presentation is a photo montage to a song called "Golden Dreams." In the latest revision of the film (about 4 years old, I think) they've added additonal footage. The shot where my tears trigger is when I see a person kneeling in front of the Vietnam Memorial, followed quickly by the launch of the Challenger.

The entire attraction does have parts that don't work, and there really isn't what you'd call a "call to action" except in bland terms. This is a tourist attraction, after all. But I always leave the attraction sobered. It reminds me that people suffered to make this nation what it used to be, and to bring it back to something better, many of us must be willing to suffer.

And then there's Francis Scott Key. You mentioned the first chorus of "The Star Spangled Banner." I always preferred to sing the last chorus instead. It's not wistful, like the first chorus, and it reminds us that we can't just triumph by looking for a banner flapping in the wind...

O thus be it ever when free-men shall stand
Between their lov'd home and the war's desolation;
Blest with vict'ry and peace, may the heav'n-rescued land
Praise the Pow'r that hath made and preserv'd us a nation!
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: “In God is our trust!”
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

[SaveAmerica]

62. That's my favorite thing in EPCOT, whoever did it is in my opinion

a genius. If you can find a web page with the narration, read Mark Twain's advice at the end. Not sure of the exact wording but every time I hear it, I think how accurate he was and how timely his words are. (Just did a quick search and can't find it anywhere, hopefully you know what I'm talking about). I never get through the show without crying at least twice, first during 'Two Brothers', especially now I think of our soldiers and how *some* people should realize war is not a game and how precious life is, and during the montage at the end.

[grasswire]

45. I saw America this week

I went to a parade -- the Junior Rose Festival parade in Portland Oregon. And I surprised myself by breaking down in tears as the color guard led the parade. A jumble of thoughts stormed me. First, I was shocked because my family and I were the only people standing up for Old Glory as the color guard passed. When did it happen that people forgot the courtesy of standing for the country's emblem in its traditional meaning?

Then I cried for the fresh faces of the hundreds of children who marched in elementary and middle school bands. Think of all those long-suffering Mr. Hollands who give their all every day to instill some discipline and beauty to America's children. When I saw them walking with their bands, I was touched. This is the heart and spirit of America.

One elementary band from the Rose City Park consisted only of four children -- two horns and two drums. How brave. How proud!

The bands wailed "Louie Louie" and "Theme from Peter Gunn" and even a Sousa march. One band was decked out in black tuxedo-printed T-shirts and top hats and the drill team carried walking sticks and the band played "It Don't Mean a Thing If It Ain't Got That Swing" and I laughed, and cried, again.

The afternoon was a jumble of pooches decked with roses and unicyclists decked with roses and dancers from nearly every ethnic culture one could imagine, all decked with roses. Where, oh where, but in America?

The old woman seated near me clapped her hands in time to every marching band -- clapped in a way that people don't do any more, much. Her hands bobbed up and down in the way grandmothers used to bob before grandmothers were of the rock and roll generation. And her head wiggled, too, in a dainty way.

So I guess I'm advocating taking in some community event that involves a lot of local pooches and some ten-year-old boys making a lot of impressive noise in the drum section, if you want your heart to be refreshed. The details of life go on, for now. Latex and spandex still cannot tame the quivering baby fat on pre-pubescent majorettes. Boys on scooters tricked out with crepe paper to look like space ships still blush at girls wearing Snow White dresses.

I hope we'll be okay. I'm burning with anger at those who've worked to divide us and make us fear and despair. I hope we'll be okay, some day soon.

I always look to the model of the Civil Rights era to sustain me. Black folks persevered for generations, despite torture, deprivation, anguish, pain .... in degrees people like me can only imagine today. And yet they went on, and marched, and sat down, and resisted, and stood up, and went on, and on, and on. And some change came.

So cheer up, chums, and be resolute. Every day, stand up, keep fighting. It won't be long. We'll get there. Our future lies in our solidarity.

We'll meet again, don't know where, don't know when,
But I know we'll meet again, some sunny day.
Keep smiling through, just like you always do,
'Til the blue skies drive the dark clouds far away.

So will you please say hello to the folks that I know,
Tell them I won't be long.
They'll be happy to know that as you saw me go,
I was singing this song.

[BigBearJohn]

46. Thanks Grasswire. That was poetic. Made my day. Big hug to you.

:pals:

[SeattleGirl]

48. Thank you, grasswire.

That is a wonderful story. I'm glad you shared it.

[rockymountaindem]

47. I'm not going to try and say anything inspiring

especially after what you wrote, but the short answer to all your questions is yes. \

Beautiful post, btw

[SeattleGirl]

49. You know, for awhile I would not let myself react or respond to

those songs or the flag. Because the Repukes had stolen it, had wrapped their warped "values" in it. Then I thought, "f" that! This is still MY country. I am not going to allow those people to chase me away. I am not going to allow them to make me feel ashamed of feeling good about those songs, or seeing the flag. I am not going to allow them to corrupt things for me. I am taking the songs and the flag and everything they stand for, back.

Are things messed up? Hell, yes, they are. Beyond belief, they are messed up. Am I ashamed of some of the things that are being done in the name of the United States of America? Yes, I am. I'm ashamed that this country went to a war based on lies. I'm ashamed that, in the name of this country, people are rounded up, tortured, not allowed representation. I am ashamed that, in the name of this country, this government is gathering information they have no business having without cause AND a warrant. I am ashamed of so many of the things that are being done today in the name of the United States of America.

BUT, more than being ashamed, I am ANGRY. I am ANGRY because, for all our flaws, we are better than that. No, we have never lived up to our ideals, but that is NO reason to toss them overboard. That's why they are CALLED ideals. They are things to work to live up to. And we are not doing that right now. Those ideals have been trampled, they have been shat upon, by a group of people who care NOTHING about this country.

But I do. And so do a lot of people. So, I am taking back those songs, and the feelings I have always had when I hear them. And I am taking back my flag, because it still means something good to me. And I am taking back my country, because flawed as she is, I love her. I love her enough to fight for her.

This verse from The Star Spangled Banner sums up my feelings, because for me, it gives the promise of hope, hope that despite all that is going on right now, we can survive:

O beautiful for patriot dream
That sees beyond the years
Thine alabaster cities gleam
Undimmed by human tears.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

54. I stopped getting all "patriotic" after My Lai and Kent State.

The Civil Rights movement started my decline in "patriotism" while I was in the service. My Lai and Kent State revealed the depth of the lie that is "patriotism".

The brief, very brief, time that America as an ideal existed, it was banished when the founders erased the call for the end of the slave trade. The rot set in early.

Of all his writings, Thomas Jefferson's most famous and far-reaching was undoubtedly his draft of the Declaration of Independence.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part2/2h33.html

Although the issue of slavery was widely debated -- both the chattel slavery of Africans in America and the civil slavery that fired patriot rhetoric -- it is conspicuously absent from the final version of the Declaration. Yet in his rough draft, Jefferson railed against King George III for creating and sustaining the slave trade, describing it as "a cruel war against human nature."

Although Jefferson's description of the slave trade was as much an indictment of the colonies as of Britain and the king, the issue that most distressed the patriots stemmed from Lord Dunmore's 1775 proclamation that offered freedom to slaves who joined the British cause: "...he is now exciting those very people to rise in arms among us, and to purchase that liberty of which he has deprived them, by murdering the people on whom he also obtruded them..."

When the document was presented to the Continental Congress on July 1, 1776, both northern and southern slaveholding delegates objected to its inclusion, and it was removed. The only remaining allusion to the original paragraph on slavery is the phrase "He has excited domestic Insurrections among us," included in a list of grievances against the king.

[Ghost Dog]

56. Listen to Neil Young, "Living With War"

Can you still sing the words to "America, the Beautiful" and mean it?

[NastyDiaper]

57. Can't stand my own Voice. I leave "America" to Ray.

Heard Ray do it live, too.

I don't let the Yahoo Freep next to me ruin the An then either. He done don't know no better's all.

[johnfunk]

58. My SHOCKING answers...

Can you still sing the words to "America, the Beautiful" and mean it?

Yes, except for the gratuitous reference to the Imaginary Friend Sky Being (in other words, "G*d"). Apologies to my pals of faith: I'm not buyin'.

Does hearing "The Star Spangled Banner" still inspire you to stand and place your hand over your heart and make you proud to be an American?

No.

Why?

Three simple words: Worst. Anthem. EVAH!! Melody lifted from vulgar drinking song + lyrics that don't scan well + focus on a single moment in an historically B-grade battle + an octave-and-a-half tessitura = this song sucks! I'd strongly support legislation replacing this abortion of an anthem with America the Beuatiful.

Does your heart burst with pride and do your eyes well up with tears while listening to
the ensemble of piccolos play in "Stars and Stripes Forever"
(Composed by John Philip Sousa on Christmas Day, 1896)...

No, but it's a great march, though (shock!) not his best IMNSHO (I'd rate Pride of the Wolverines, Pathfinder of Panama and Hail to the Spirit of Liberty as even better)--and I'll stand by my assertion that Richard Franko Goldman wrote better marches on average than Sousa!

Does the 4th of July mean anything to you besides a day off work and an excuse to watch free fireworks?

Yes. I'm proud of our nation, not of the Neoconservative crooks that have occupied the Executive Branch or the GOP toadies that control Congress.

Does America really stand for something or is it simply a piece of propaganda dreamed up by some Madison Avenue ad executive and then drilled into your head in grade school?

Its citizens would stand for something if they'd break themselves away from the conservative-slanted media feeding them corporatist pap. In other words, this nation stands for Disney, NewsCorp and Viacom--it just thinks it stands for life, liberty, and the pursuit of happy happy joy joy.

[BigBearJohn]

64. Thanks for the great response. Which album of his do you recommend?

[SaveAmerica]

60. I say yes to all these questions, it's why I'm fighting for our country

I still believe in America, I believe America can be saved. I believe.

[Uncle Roy]

61. Woody Guthrie got it: "This land is your land, This land is my land"

and we need to take it back!

This Land Is Your Land

This land is your land This land is my land
From California to the New York island;
From the red wood forest to the Gulf Stream waters
This land was made for you and Me.

As I was walking that ribbon of highway,
I saw above me that endless skyway:
I saw below me that golden valley:
This land was made for you and me.

I've roamed and rambled and I followed my footsteps
To the sparkling sands of her diamond deserts;
And all around me a voice was sounding:
This land was made for you and me.

When the sun came shining, and I was strolling,
And the wheat fields waving and the dust clouds rolling,
As the fog was lifting a voice was chanting:
This land was made for you and me.

As I went walking I saw a sign there
And on the sign it said "No Trespassing."
But on the other side it didn't say nothing,
That side was made for you and me.

In the shadow of the steeple I saw my people,
By the relief office I seen my people;
As they stood there hungry, I stood there asking
Is this land made for you and me?

Nobody living can ever stop me,
As I go walking that freedom highway;
Nobody living can ever make me turn back
This land was made for you and me.

- Woody Guthrie

http://www.woodyguthrie.org/Lyrics/This_Land.htm

[Armstead]

63. Yes -- But we're in danger of losing it

I still have a fundamental optimism about America, and the better side of what it stands for, warts and all.

Heck, even after the debacle of the 2000 election, there was at least solice in that the country accepted the verdict of the system to respect the notion of a peaceful transfer of power, rather than having a bloodbath in the streets.

But over the last 30 years we have steadily been eroding the positive basis of America. Both parties capiutulated in that. And over the last six years, it seems like that deteriioration has accelerated.

I still have hope we can get back on a better track. heck, look at how low Bush's ratings have plummeted, as people reject what he represents.

But unless all Americans wake up real soon, we may pass the Point of No Return.

[smoogatz]

65. Having grown up in the chaotic 60's and ironic 70's--

those songs never meant shit to me. I've always thought them either martial and nonsensical or sentimental and stupid. I'm more a fan of Woody Guthrie's "This Land Is Your Land," which IMO ought to be the national anthem.

[omega minimo]

66. "....lamenting over the oncoming fall of his nation."

seems so out of place in this thoughtful post. The questions you ask are about believing in the integrity of the nation and it's ability to hold together.

"So, my question to you my dear DU-er compatriates, if you still believe in the dream that America once was, and could be again,

"What are YOU doing to help bring back the beauty that once was America?"

Help me understand. When I hear people Treat As Inevitable a future that no one wants to live in and "lament" it ahead of time.......... what does that mean? Isn't that giving up?

We have a local "alternative" weekly paper that pretends to be about "edgy" rather than ads-- every few years they'll print something political or a sidebar column might refer to the "encroaching police state." If they aren't part of the solution (as "alternative" media) they is part of the problem.

If we don't wanna live there, why do assume it will happen and LIHOP?

If we are doing things to "help bring back the beauty that once was America" why are we lamenting a fall that hasnt' happened yet?.......:think: or maybe it HAS!

Beautiful OP. Thanks you :applause:

[BigBearJohn]

75. Good points!

I guess I feel that if we don't DO
something, our nation WILL fall.

The piece was intended to inspire
to DO something.

[omega minimo]

77. #1. Don't buy their crap

#2. Vote, dammit

#3. Don't assume that everybody ELSE is a sucker who doesn't "get it"

#4. Connect the dots-- oh wait-- that's #1................................................ :hi:

[havocmom]

69. Driving on the highway, through wheat fields and pastures

with bald eagles and golden eagles often in my view, I hear that song in my head sung by a choir of thousands.

And every damned time, I cry.

Maybe. Maybe we can save it. But the family farmers with those fields, which do indeed turn amber in August, they are mostly hanging on by a thread these days.

And the folks who care about the mountains are losing ground to developers builing more McMansions and golf courses.

The oceans cannot keep taking our abuse. The rivers need our attention.

Fertile lands are put under strip malls and rows of identical houses. What are all those people gonna eat in a few years when the land is covered with asphalt?

The other song I hear is the one that goes:
Don't it always seem to go,
ya don't know what ya got til it's gone.
They take paradise and put up a parking lot...

We were born to a great and beautiful country.
It's up to us to save it for another generation.

Maybe. Maybe we can save it. Maybe when just a few more join in the fight for it instead of constantly saying Somebody needs to DO something! Somebody is US. We the People.

Democracy is NOT a spectator sport.

[mmonk]

74. Let's see.

No, No, No, No, and No.

Was the answer yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes at one time? Certainly. With the obvious theft of our constitution and Bill of Rights currently, it's over for me. I'm a naive fool no longer. I'm here. I'm an American. But it doesn't mean anything anymore to me. More like an accident of birth now.

[Vidar]

76. Anything "patriotic" nauseates me at this point. I'll forgive it in

selected other people.

[Yollam]

79. Honestly, right now, no.

I always did, but from what I've seen, the half of America that is doing well financially are too corrupt, complacent, and greedy to share with the bottom half, who are exhausted and seeking desperate escapes through drugs or crime. It's still a beautiful country, but I hate what the people have become. Everyone is out for themselves, no sense of community. Road rage, adults having fistfights over little league games, HUGE view-blocking POS gas-guzzler SUVs EVERYWHERE and just selfishness, selfishness and more selfishness.


And it's not JUST the right-wingers.

[BigBearJohn]

80. You bring up some good points.