Impeaching bush, or sending other repugs to jail means nothing at all

[The Straight Story]

Not to me anyway.

Why?

Just like that fellow out there in Iraq that was hosed - no matter how many we nail here, more will rise to take their place. bush goes away, rove, robertson even - so what, many more will just rise to their spots and lead the hordes. Sure we would be glad if those folks were gone, but hey it would mean nothing really. herr bush Zarqawi is but a figurehead, on his way out might I remind you, and yet we are spending hours and hours searching him out so that we can imprison him. To what end?

So we need to embrace the right, see what we are doing wrong and why it is pissing them off. Maybe we encroached into their territory too much.

Listen to the 'enemy' (can we really call them that, or should we refer to them as local insurgents who are battling back against our agression against their beliefs?) and leave their space as soon as we can. Hell, if they are the majority, then who are we to tell em how to run the government?

bush is our osama, rove our zarqawi. We indict the last one (so I have heard...) but someone else will take his place, maybe worse than he was. Should we celebrate and be happy about it? Or is it all a distraction?

Ok - loaded, totally, with sarcasm.

So what the hell am I really saying? Simply this:

I am glad that asshole Zarqawi is dead. I don't care if he died on a damn stretcher. I don't fucking care if he was a bush puppet - if so, that is one less he has up his sleeve. I don't care if he is replaced by someone else - one less killing bastard in the world makes me damned happy. I don't care if he was not burnt to a crisp (neither was the building from the pics I saw....the rubble didn't seem to have too many burn marks on it). I don't care if he had his eyes closed, his lips looked pretty in one pic and not the next. In the end, he is dead. Want to pull out some quotes from some newspaper about previous incidents of his death - and hold them up as something relevant? - well list those papers and from here out anything they say I hope you take as god given gospel (unless, of course, they say something you disagree with - in which case they are not reliable).


My main fucking problem here (excuse the language please) is we will analyze the shit out of something if we think for a second it makes bush/crew look somewhat better. But we suspend those same detective skills (and DU'ers have kicked ass in this regards) if it is something we want to be true because it makes bush looks bad. Haditha anyone? Has to be real. Pics are all real of course. Nothing about it was planted, wrong, etc - because it makes bush and the war look bad. Anyone here doubt it for a second? EVEN if it came back as fake - we would say it was real elsewhere, just not discovered yet.

Let's not let the truth get buried in our prejudice. We have a zillion threads on how fake things are if it makes people in the ME look bad - and about zero if it is about something that makes bush/US look bad. And if we do believe it makes someone else look bad - then we fall back to "it's our fault still, we made em that way". We eat it up - like the right ate up Zarqawi, beheadings, WMD, etc. In fact, on WMD, I predicted to a friend of mine that what would happen was one of two things. bush finds them - and we dems would say they were planted. bush did not find them, and we would say we told you so. We are always prepared...

I expect no balance from the right. Pardon me if I do from my fellow dems.

Oh - and on the detective thing. I say go for the off wall theories (and yes, I read the 9/11 forum). Just do it across the board. I don't trust bush and crew. And I sure as hell don't trust most the other leaders in the world. Or the rich, or terrorists, or anyone else who has an agenda and power to make it happen. Truth be told - presidents come and go, but there are people in office/power that stay. To me they are the string holders of the puppets we elect.

Don't lay off bush for a minute. But let's get all the damn elite in this world under the same microscope. bush is gone soon. Was not here for a long time either. And yet the evil assholes in the background have still managed to mess up the world.

That goes for clinton as well, not to mention gore. Back in the 90's they imposed sanctions, kept up the pressure on Iraq, said saddam had to go, that he was a threat, that he had wmd (bio and others), and also saw osama as a major player. Either they were intentionally deceiving us, were blind, or totally out of the loop. Or they were right. Osama a tool of bush? then he was a tool of the dems in their days of power as well. That is scary.

Ya know - I think I stand by my fellow DU'ers more than I do the folks in our capitol. At least we can debate and not worry about losing our jobs. We can be honest with each other. I will get toasted for this thread I am sure. That is fine - because here I can speak my mind, and you can yours.

I respect you, I may disagree with you though. But in the end - most of you here have the guts to say how you feel, without all the BS politics as a wrapper. So yeah - I am bitching about some things, but overall - I feel DU ROCKS and the people here make this my favorite site on the net. I just think - personally - we would be a little better served if we



PS - don't get me started on 9/11 and all that...

[Nostradammit]

1. How long did it take you to type all this up?

.

[The Straight Story]

2. Not too long - but that is best left to experts to decide :)

After they investigate me for bush ties by analyzing my typing patterns, seeing if my great grandfather ever passed his in the street (oh, did I mention my grandfather was a republican mayor and police chief here in Ohio???) and so on.

Seriously though, it only took two beers.

[EST]

3. Au contraire...

May I quibble you one quibble, please?

One of the most important, fundamental, aspects of our society, indeed, of any society that confers responsibility for governance on the citizenry, is the rule of law.

The rule of law recognizes the essential notion that actions have consequences and that results in the ideas of responsibility and accountability.
Your post does a good job on responsibility, so I'd like to address accountability, specifically, the need for it.

Accountability is not vengeance, although it can embody that frame of mind. Accountability, with its facet of punishment, must exist or laws cannot exist, or if they do exist, they have no meaning or value.

Most of us, in our saner, more logical moments, recognize the need for traffic rules of the road--without them the problems inherent in an unwieldy, complicated traffic system become unmanageable, in fact, openly dangerous.

When we are late for work, or some other important function, we tend to pretend the rules don't apply to us or that we are willing to take the chance that we can add to the obvious dangers and take our lumps if anything goes awry. Without the complications of punishment, for very many, even tiny pressures would be elevated to the status of big ones, allowing us to speed with impunity and the consequence would be the wanton slaughter of many more thousands on the highways.

In the case of George B*** and his fellow criminals, the need for accountability is at least as important, if not more so.
In order for the rule of law to have any force, there must be the underlying notion that everyone is subject to the same laws, no "privileged" class or group, and that swift and sure punishment must be a goal of enormous importance, otherwise those laws will be flouted with impunity and will become of no value, thus anarchy.

I don't know about you, but I prefer not having to have a horde of hired, armed thugs accompany me on my walks in the back yard.

As distasteful as it may be, the perpetrators of the current lawless activities in government or in business must be investigated, prosecuted and punished, and nothing can be allowed to stand in the way of this process--not even public apathy, disinterest, or mercy.

[dempeoria]

4. Yes

"... lawless activities in government or in business must be investigated, prosecuted and punished, and nothing can be allowed to stand in the way of this process--not even public apathy, disinterest, or mercy".

I think I differ with most here because I believe, not only is it true, but that it should be applied EQUALLY to both sides, ALL sides.