Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

James Risen's book! You won't believe this one! Holy crap!

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU
 
in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 09:18 PM
Original message
James Risen's book! You won't believe this one! Holy crap!
We should make this a BESTSELLER! OMG...this is explosive! Have you read James Risens' book yet??? See below what we gave to IRAN!.....

The yes man and the thug
Posted: 01/13


<snip>
Risen's bombshell disclosures have to do with that agency, including new details on the CIA's interrogation practices and its stable of secret prisons. In addition, we learn that in the months before the United States invaded Iraq, the CIA obtained and then ignored specific intelligence pointing to the absence of weapons of mass destruction under Saddam Hussein, and that, as the famous Downing Street memo noted, the CIA was essentially fixing data around what it knew to be an inevitable war. In what may be the book's most sensational claim, Risen writes that as part of a bizarre, almost unbelievably ill-conceived attempt to disrupt the Iranian nuclear program, the agency recently provided the Iranian government with highly sensitive technical designs for making part of a nuclear bomb -- and then lost track of what the Iranians did with the blueprints.

The trouble is, for all the news in "State of War," you can't help feeling there's an even bigger story in what's not here. Risen's astounding findings are, for the most part, just skeletons of disaster and doom; in many cases, limitations inherent to national security journalism -- spymasters like to keep mum -- kept him from learning many of the details surrounding the programs he uncovers, and his account is often incomplete. He reports that in early 2005, members of a Defense Department intelligence unit "working in Latin America killed a man outside a bar," but he can tell us nothing more about that incident. He suggests that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the central planner of the 9/11 attacks who's now in U.S. custody, was treated so harshly by his CIA interrogators that he initially gave them false information just to stop the torture; more recently, he has disavowed his earlier testimony. But Risen, a careful journalist who always comes clean about his ignorance, makes clear he doesn't know what Mohammed is now recanting, how important his reversals may be in the war on terrorism, and whether the incident actually proves that torture yields bad information from detainees. Thus, the book reads more like a collection of disparate anecdotes about national security difficulties -- almost all from anonymous sources, and sometimes reported with little context -- than a coherent story of what's wrong with the American spy business. At times, it feels like all tip and no iceberg.

To the extent that Risen does put forward a theory for why U.S. intelligence has failed so frequently and so spectacularly under George W. Bush, the story focuses on two key players. The first is George Tenet, the former CIA director, whom Risen paints as a feckless yes man, a pusillanimous glad-hander who ruined the agency's credibility and integrity because he could never stand up to others in the administration. "George Tenet liked to talk about how he was a tough Greek from Queens, but in reality, he was a pussy," one former CIA insider tells Risen. "He just wanted people to like him."

Then there's Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, the yin to Tenet's yang. Rumsfeld is a renegade who steps over just about everyone in the administration, including Tenet, Colin Powell, Condoleezza Rice and even Bush himself, to get his way. Aided by Vice President Dick Cheney and influenced by Defense Department neoconservatives, Rumsfeld manages to wrest control of every aspect of American international affairs. "To others in the administration, mystified by the process -- or lack of a process -- it eventually became clear that Cheney and Rumsfeld had a backchannel where the real decision making was taking place," Risen writes. "The result was that the Bush administration was the first presidency in modern history in which the Pentagon served as the overwhelming center of gravity for U.S. foreign policy."<snip>

http://mathaba.net/0_index.shtml?x=507218
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 09:24 PM
Response to Original message
1. "-- it eventually became clear that Cheney and Rumsfeld
had a backchannel where the real decision making was taking place," <snip>

Like that hasn't been known far and wide from the get go. Amongst people with tracable brainwave patters that is.

This guy nails all of them. Tenet just looked like an overstuffed doofus. The rest just look evil. And you can just hear the wind whistling between bush**s ears.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. WE know Rummy and Cheney are running the machine, but I question
whether the people in the Heartland do...non-political junkies or people with no brainwave patterns ;).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. No, these cast members of a bad episode of Hee Haw don't have a
frigging clue. They think he's the greatest thing since white bread.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. In light of our possible Nuclear attack on Iran, THIS blows my mind!
In what may be the book's most sensational claim, Risen writes that as part of a bizarre, almost unbelievably ill-conceived attempt to disrupt the Iranian nuclear program, the agency recently provided the Iranian government with highly sensitive technical designs for making part of a nuclear bomb -- and then lost track of what the Iranians did with the blueprints.

THE SAME THING WE DID FOR SADDAM! Sold him WMD and then attacked him for it! These people scare the hell out of me.:scared:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. Well that's one sure way to be able to say that they are 'guilty' of
having these weapons (or nuclear capability) or whatever. It's a pretty good frame-up.

But we needed Saddam to have those weapons to keep the Iranians busy fighting that eight year long way. We gave him everything he needed and more. Then we set him up and let him believe that it was okay to go after Kuwait so that we had a reason to knock the wind out of him. Couldn't let him get to uppity, independent, and tough. Had to make sure that he didn't get too powerful and dominate the Middle East. The BFEE had plans for doing that themselves.

And who did this shit? Republicans. Corporatist republicans. One of the main architects was our current pResident's father. That is one truly evil son of a bitch. And one hell of a long-time planner as well.

The biggest irony of all this is I bet they NEVER thought GHWB's idiot son would be the one to upset it all. To destroy all their careful planning. To see their precious republican party end up comparable to something that you scrape off the bottom of your shoes. There is a bit of poetic justice there, you gotta admit.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. LOOK AT THIS TOO! Halliburton sold nuke components to Iran!
Edited on Fri Jan-13-06 10:48 PM by in_cog_ni_to
FreedomAngel82 just posted this in a thread.


Link: http://worldnewstrust.org/modules/AMS/article.php?story...

Snip: <By Jason Leopold -- World News Trust

Scandal-plagued Halliburton -- the oil services company once headed by Vice President Cheney -- sold an Iranian oil development company key components for a nuclear reactor, say Halliburton sources with intimate knowledge into both companies’ business dealings.

Halliburton was secretly working at the time with one of Iran’s top nuclear program officials on natural gas related projects and sold the components in April to the official's oil development company, the sources said.

Just last week, a National Security Council report said Iran was a decade away from acquiring a nuclear bomb. That time frame could arguably have been significantly longer if Halliburton, whose miltary unit just reported a 284 percent increase in its second quarter profits due to its Iraq reconstruction contracts, was not actively providing the Iranian government with the means to build a nuclear weapon.

With Iran's new hardline government now firmly in place, Iranian officials have rounded up relatives and close business associates of Iran's former President and defeated mullah presidential candidate Hashemi Rafsanjani, alleging the men were involved in widespread corruption of Iran's oil industry, specifically tied to the country's business dealings with Halliburton. >

More at the link....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Oh I beg to differ
They knew and planned Bush to "win" the presidency and be there. Look who called it for him. Watch in Moore's film when he's with Jeb and the confidence he has on "winning." I believe Poppy is also there too and involved. It's all apart of the plan. George is just the head behind the operation.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. I'm so glad you said George is just the HEAD behind the operation
Edited on Fri Jan-13-06 10:54 PM by in_cog_ni_to
and not the brains behind it. :)

Jeb had "the fix" in in FL. There's no doubt about that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemonFighterLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-14-06 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #10
26. The Texas idiot has really screwed up
Well, he's not actually from TX. I don't know who claims him including poppy?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bbinacan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
5. I got an email from a freeper
today that claimed Clinton authorized the release of fake blue-prints, and that even though that happens alot, it was never done with nukes. He argued that the Iranians could see the BS in the plans. So what's the deal?:shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Sounds like a RW talking point. The word "RECENTLY" tells me it was BUSH
who gave them this. Repukes always do this shit. Remember, it's the repukes who gave Saddam his WMD too. :( I don't doubt they gave them what they needed to make nuclear weapons so they would have an excuse to attack them.


the agency recently provided the Iranian government with highly sensitive technical designs for making part of a nuclear bomb
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bbinacan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. What is recently?
The claim was that it happened in 2000. I wish I could find a link to dispute this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. They blame EVERYTHING on Clinton. Next week the truth will come out.
I'm sure the freeper who sent you that email will send you the one with the TRUTH in it.:eyes: NEVER believe anything a repuke says. They're ALL LIARS. "recently" to me means within the last 5+ years. Clinton wasn't chomping at the bit to attack Iran. BUSH is. Who do you think would give this info to Iran? It's not Clinton, BUT I will say, IF Clinton DID do this, then he needs to pay for it just as BUSH should pay for it. I have to ask though, who gains the most by giving Iran blueprints for nuclear weapons?

Also, let me add this... Clinton spent his ENTIRE presidency fighting for PEACE in the Middle East. Why the hell would he give IRAN this info? It would undo everything he worked 8 years to accomplish.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
txindy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. Since it is Halliburton that has been selling Iran nuclear reactor parts
I don't think it's hard to see the connection between Halliburton and Junior. Halliburton and Clinton, though? Hmm, not so much. Not at all. This has got Dick written all over it.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Oh yeah. Cheney's STENCH...I can smell it.
:grr:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bbinacan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-14-06 12:37 AM
Response to Reply #17
23. I agree about Halliburton and
I want to see a full investigation into any and all influences this company exerted. And I don't give a flying fuck who might be implicated.:banghead:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
txindy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #8
18. Here's a link of interest then:
Show the freeper this: http://worldnewstrust.org/modules/AMS/article.php?storyid=919

Then ask him/her which of the major players in the last two administrations is intimately (i.e., financially) connected to Halliburton? Hint: There's a Dick involved.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bbinacan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-14-06 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #18
33. Thanks for the info. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. And you believe a freeper?
Edited on Fri Jan-13-06 10:50 PM by FreedomAngel82
Don't you know they blame Clinton for everything?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bbinacan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-14-06 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #14
22. I don't believe a freeper
that's why I asked my questions here.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
txindy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 10:08 PM
Response to Original message
7. Recommending
I may just have to buy this book, now. It sounds like an eye-opening read.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 10:46 PM
Response to Original message
11. If you haven't
try to go to pbs.org and find the documentary "Rumsfeld's War" which is about him and Iraq. In the film it tells how he told Bush to not worry about Iraq and leave everything to him. It's a really great documentary that you should try to find.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 11:02 PM
Response to Original message
19. We didn't know this?
We certainly knew about Rummy and the neocons. We certainly knew that torture yields bad results. The blueprint story is new tho.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
otohara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 11:03 PM
Response to Original message
20. Risen Couldn't Bring Himself to Say Bush Was Lying
on Al Franken the other day. Franken kept trying to pin him on the hooey lie about trying to do whatever possible to avoid war, when it was a big fat ass lie. He was saying he believed Bush truly believed in the WMD claims.

It was disappointing. Why the fuck can't any of these guys say they were lying their asses off?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Justice Is Comin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-14-06 12:49 AM
Response to Reply #20
24. Risen is pathetic
on any of the talk shows he appears on. All his answers are vanilla, sanguine, almost put you to sleep. He wrote a book about a huge coverup and you'd think he would say so. But no, he sounds like he's giving a class on trigonometry.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemonFighterLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-14-06 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #24
27. He is trying to be careful with his life
the * junta is evil incarnate. I wouldn't fly any small planes or walk around NY or anywhere else if he goes against the family.
:hide:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
speedoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-14-06 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #24
28. Risen is a reporter and a journalist.
His demeanor on these talk shows is appropriate for his role and I think he's very effective. If he were too much over the top he'd be dismissed as a partisan.

It's up to the Democrats to talk with heat about this. I assume Mr. Gore will do so on Monday.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-14-06 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #28
39. Correct. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
peekaloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-14-06 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #20
31. Same thing on the Charlie Rose show.
He pointed fingers at the CIA and how "they" muddied the waters so that by the time it got to Bu$h it seemed credible.


:-(
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Maraya1969 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
21. Does this remind anyone of the police PLANTING illegal drugs to get
an arrest and conviction. This is worse because they seem to be looking for WARS. I can't get the reasoning behind that one except world domination.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemonFighterLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-14-06 01:04 AM
Response to Original message
25. If dubby wanted a legacy
he should be crying for help and squealing like a pig that he is.
GFY cheney and rummy
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-14-06 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
29. I think people
would do well to read this book. There is a lot of very important information in it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dutchdemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-14-06 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
30. Cheney-Rumsfeld Surveillance Plans Date Back to 1980s
Cheney-Rumsfeld Surveillance Plans Date Back to 1980s

Commentary/Analysis, Peter Dale Scott,

Article written by Peter Dale Scott, a former Canadian diplomat and English Professor at the University of California, Berkeley, is a poet, writer, and researcher. He was born in Montreal in 1929, the only son of the poet F.R. Scott and the painter Marian Scott.

New America Media, Jan 03, 2006

Editor's Note: Illegal eavesdropping and illegal detentions of U.S. citizens marks a revival of presidential powers curtailed since Watergate, and likely grew out of a secret Reagan-era program that planned to suspend the U.S. Constitution in the event of a national emergency.

Revelations that the National Security Agency (NSA) has engaged in warrantless eavesdropping in violation of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act prompted President Bush to admit last month that in 2002 he directly authorized the activity in the wake of 9/11.

But there are reasons to suspect that the illegal eavesdropping, and the related program of illegal detentions of U.S. citizens as well as foreign nationals, began earlier. Both may be part of what Vice President Dick Cheney has called the Bush administration's restoration of "the legitimate authority of the presidency" -- practices exercised by Nixon that were outlawed after Watergate.

In the 1980s Richard Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld discussed just such emergency surveillance and detention powers in a super-secret program that planned for what was euphemistically called "Continuity of Government" (COG) in the event of a nuclear disaster.

At the time, Cheney was a Wyoming congressman, while Rumsfeld, who had been defense secretary under President Ford, was a businessman and CEO of the drug company G.D. Searle. Overall responsibility for the program had been assigned to Vice President George H.W. Bush, "with Lt. Col. Oliver North...as the National Security Council action officer," according to James Bamford in his book, "A Pretext for War."

These men planned for suspension of the Constitution, not just after nuclear attack, but for any "national security emergency," which they defined in Executive Order 12656 of 1988 as: "Any occurrence, including natural disaster, military attack, technological or other emergency, that seriously degrades or seriously threatens the national security of the United States." Clearly 9/11 would meet this definition.

As developed in the mid-1980s by Oliver North in the White House, the plans called for not just the surveillance but the potential detention of large numbers of American citizens. During the Iran-Contra hearings, North was asked about his work on "a contingency plan in the event of emergency, that would suspend the American constitution." The chairman, Democratic Senator Inouye, ruled that this was a "highly sensitive and classified" matter, not to be dealt with in an open hearing.

The supporting agency for the planning and implementation was the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA). FEMA was headed for much of the 1980s by Louis Giuffrida, whose COG plans for massive detention became so extreme that even President Reagan's then Attorney General, William French Smith, raised objections.

SNIP


http://news.pacificnews.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=979bc356fbfc082be8930f269e2bde50
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Individualist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-14-06 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
32. "backchannel"
Does Risen elaborate and explain that the backchannel is PNAC?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-14-06 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
34. There is nothing the US won't do to start a war if it wants one... n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Martin Eden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-14-06 07:02 PM
Response to Original message
35. Why did Bush give Tenet the MEDAL OF FREEDOM ?
If Tenet is to blame for intentiionally corrupting the integrity and credibility of the CIA by "fixing the facts around the policy" then why did Bush reward him with the prestigious Medal of Freedom? We're talking about a pretty serious offense which led to a war costing thousands of lives, hundreds of billions of dollars, and has a significant number of Americans believing the president lied and should be impeached.

It requires Orwellian doublethink to blame it all on Tenet and the intelligence community, when it is obvious that the policy around which the facts were being fixed came from the White House and the neocon foreign policy makers. If Bush (read: his foreign policy team) was really misled by the CIA, then Tenet should have been brought up on charges instead of awarded the Medal of Freedom.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-14-06 08:24 PM
Response to Original message
36. Thank you -- I will be sure to read this n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
w8liftinglady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-14-06 08:38 PM
Response to Original message
37. ok-just bought the book....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-14-06 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
38. Check this out
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue Apr 30th 2024, 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC