The TRUTH about what is going on in Iraq!

[peacebaby3]

I truly think that civil war is inevitable. I know this isn't really news to most of us here, but it still seems many have their head buried in the sand about what is going to happen. It doesn't matter if we stay there 20 years, it's still going to happen. All we can hope is that the region doesn't become completely unstable. I hope I'm wrong, but it sure doesn't look good.

I'm just glad to see more of this coming out. It seems since the reporter, Steven Vincent, was murdered in southern Iraq that had been reporting on the Shia militia groups (wonder who killed him?)there hasn't been that much in the news.

Kurds quietly ready for civil war
By Tom Lasseter

Knight Ridder Newspapers


KIRKUK, Iraq — Iraq's Kurdish leaders have inserted more than 10,000 of their militia members into Iraqi army divisions in northern Iraq to lay the groundwork to swarm south, seize the oil-rich city of Kirkuk and possibly half of Mosul, Iraq's third-largest city, and secure the borders of an independent Kurdistan.

Interviews with Kurdish leaders and troops in the region suggest that U.S. plans to bring unity to Iraq before withdrawing American troops by training and equipping a national army aren't gaining traction.

Instead, some troops formally under U.S. and Iraqi national command are preparing to protect territory and ethnic and religious interests in the event of Iraq's fragmentation, which many of them think is inevitable.

The soldiers said that while they wore Iraqi army uniforms, they considered themselves members of the peshmerga — the Kurdish militia — and were awaiting orders from Kurdish leaders to break ranks. Many said they wouldn't hesitate to kill Iraqi army comrades, especially Arabs, if a fight for an independent Kurdistan erupted.

<http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002709442_kurd29.html>

[stop the bleeding]

1. You want some links on the "possible" civil war - look here:

News Sources that are Relevant to the Iraq War

there are a lot of articles in the center of the link/page that I think you find helpful.

when you see the headlines on a daily basis and put them all together a civil war has been going for a while now, it just has not been headlined as such yet.

[peacebaby3]

2. I agree, it is just getting worse everyday. My husband said when he came

home in April '04 that they were already seeing the militias form. One of the first Shia militias came out of Basra which many considered one of the more peaceful regions of Iraq. Most of the boots on the ground over there know what is going on even if they don't admit it.

On edit: Thanks for the link!

[FreedomAngel82]

7. Scary

:( What will this mean for the soliders over there??

[peacebaby3]

10. Well, that's a good question.

If they pull out all but a few, I think those left will be in big trouble.

They will have to pull everybody out. I don't think this is ever going to happen because they are building permanent bases so I think there will always be some kind of US presence. I could honestly see a "fall of Baghdad" scenario. I think the Shia (backed by Iran) definitely have the upper hand.

I've always thought that Wesley Clark's plan to divide the country up into three groups sounded good except for the fact of who would control the oil which is the main economic means for the entire country. Most of the oil fields are in the Shiite region of the south so the Sunni and Kurds would have little control if the country was divided geographically.

Thinking about this makes my head hurt because it is such a mess. Thanks * administration.

[kentuck]

3. It appears that this last election may have been the straw....

that broke the camels back. The Sunnis see now htat the Shiites are going to be in charge of everything and they are not capable of living under such circumstances. The elections have validated that.

[stop the bleeding]

4. thank you for saying that n/t

[Jayhawk Lib]

5. It is inevitable.

I think civil war in Iraq is inevitable. Whenever you have a country like Iraq with 2 or more factions you are going to have civil war. The only way you will have peace is when one side completely decimates the other.

My son-in-law and my nephew have both done tours in Iraq and apparently drank the cool aid. They both said that the US was doing the correct thing being there and there were more good things happening than bad. I disagreed but both of them stated that the media was not telling it like it is.

I ask my son-in-law about the danger over there. He being stationed at Scott AFB pointed over to East ST.Louis and said he was safer walking around Baghdad than he would be walking around East ST Louis.

[peacebaby3]

9. I always hate the apples to oranges comparisons. I can guarantee you the

things you would face in East St. Louis (and I have been lost there before) aren't coming from armed militias with IEDs. AND if I hear one more person say something like more people die here in traffic accidents than have died in the entire "war", I am going to slap them if I can get anywhere near them.

Of course, there are some good things happening in Iraq. Nothing is ever black and white. We are building the schools and buildings back that we either bombed in '91 or during this conflict. We are working to replenish some of the things that were decimated by the extreme economic sanctions we, along with other world governments, inflicted upon the Iraqi people (Saddam never suffered just the people suffered). Do all Iraqis hate us? Probably not, at least not to our face.

Unfortunately, the military does a good job at brainwashing. I have no doubt your son-in-law and nephew truly believe what they say. It was really hard for my husband to come to grips with the idea that this was all a big mistake. I felt sorry for him just as I do the other soldiers when they realize that the institution they joined with good intentions and for admirable reasons lied to them and couldn't care less if they live or die. They aren't called GIs for nothing. They are considered a piece of equipment in the big machine.

As far as the civil war goes... Another issue is what outside influences will play a role. We know that Iran will get involved and back the Shiites. I wouldn't be surprised to see Syria get involved as well. We know that Turkey would like nothing more than to decimate the Kurds so they will be stuck in between Shiite Iraqi militias and Turkey. It could really be horrible before it's all over.

[FreedomAngel82]

6. Oh yes

Lots of good news. Why are you being such a downer? Why aren't you reporting the good news?! They're building schools! :sarcasm:

[Xenotime]

8. Thanks to us, the world is a wreck...

we have brought terror and organized crime to that region.

[peacebaby3]

11. Amen. n/t

[BrotherBuzz]

12. The Kurds in Control

This month's National Geographic features an article on the Kurds.
It was a good read that meshes well with this article. The one point that I didn't fully understand, and the article illuminated well, is how liberated the Kurdish women are and why there is no way the Kurds will surrender to Islamic fundamentalist rule. Smart money says the the Kurds will prevail.

The Kurds in Control

By Frank Viviano
Photographs by Ed Kashi

The Kurds may be the only group powerful enough to keep Iraq from tearing itself apart. But who says that's what they want?


Since the aftermath of the 1991 gulf war, nearly four million Kurds have enjoyed complete autonomy in the region of Iraqi Kurdistan—protected from Saddam under a "no-fly zone" north of the 36th parallel and behind the defensive wall of the Kurds' highly disciplined army, the peshmerga. They have held region-wide elections, formed a legislature, and chosen a president, establishing a world entirely apart from Baghdad—a de facto independent state. For the first time in their long history, Kurds are wielding significant political power, successfully negotiating for control over their own military forces and authority over new oil discoveries in their own terrain. Under the federated Iraq being called for by the international community, they would have powers of autonomy that match—or even exceed—what they now enjoy.

<more>

http://www7.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0601/feature1/index.html

[peacebaby3]

13. Wow. Interesting. I would have honestly guessed the Kurds

would be decimated because of the Turkey factor. That battle goes way back and I could see them caught in the middle and completely wiped out.

I'm going to give this a good read. Thanks again.

[BrotherBuzz]

14. The battle with Turkey may be years down the road...

Keep in mind, the Kurds have enjoyed complete autonomy for fourteen years and by the time the conflict with Turkey arrives, the Kurdish population that has enjoyed this freedom will be a majority. Kurdistan is here to stay and Turkey will simply have to deal with their own Kurdish population. We shall see what happens when we get there, but who's to say Turkey won't experience its own Civil war? :shrug:

[peacebaby3]

15. Good point. It's not like Turkey is completely stable. I just

remember back in 2003 when this all started that there were several small skirmishes between the Kurds and the Turks. I thought some in Turkey might use the destabilization to their advantage and go after the Kurds from the north while they are battling in the south. You have raised some valid points though and the whole region is volatile enough right now that anything could happen.