In defense of the soldiers

[CornField]

First, I hate this 'conflict' just as much as I hate the 'conflict' which took my brother's life.

My nephew came back from Afghanistan not too long ago. He still wakes up with nightmares and he is still undergoing therapy -- at his own expense. His wife is trying to be understanding, but now has to sleep in a different room because of the images which plague his mind and cause him to yell out, thrash about and startle awake.

He was one of many who volunteered to be a soldier. Young, bright and without much money, he was idealistic about what he would be doing and why he would be doing it. Before he left, he spoke to me about he and his wife gathering the Beanie Babies which would be shipped to him in increments so that he could give them to the children he met there.

"Aunt Lynda, can you even imagine what these children have had to deal with?" he asked me. "They have always lived with war -- always. They never knew when their corrupt government would be willing to help them or if they could trust their own law enforcement. They need people like me to help them learn to trust again."

He had visions of working with the Seabees to help rebuild schools, protecting water supplies, handing out candy and being a friend to the people he met. My nephew, like so many others, wanted to do something positive and wanted financial aide for college.

He has returned with his soul literally broken and is now having to fight for his Army College Fund (because he refused the occupational track offered to him while in the Army). There is also some problem with the mandatory monthly payment he had to make to the military for his first 12 months. But I digress...

Here was a young man who was optimistic about his future, who wanted to help others, who wanted to serve his country, who needed to believe that all Americans were the good guys. He was sent off to a country without the best equipment and protective gear. He rode in vehicles which did not have the necessary protection (something which became obvious the first time his convoy was struck by a roadside bomb -- second day of his tour).

He won't tell me everything that is stuck in his head. To be honest, I'm not sure I could handle knowing everything he knows now. He did tell me he asked his wife to stop sending him the Beanie Babies after a couple of months because he didn't want children anywhere near him or the platoon. He never got around to working with the Seabees doing rebuilding (he said he never even saw any of them). He mostly patrolled and 'watched his buddies' backs' while praying they were 'watching over my miserable ass.'

I'm getting off point, but what I really want to stress is that if our government/military continues to take our young men and women and treat them as fodder or animals, we cannot be suprised or appalled when they start to act like fodder or animals.

Be angry all you want over the actions of some of the troops. Take care, however, to funnel that anger where it truly belongs: on the system which lures some of the most vulnerable in our society with empty promises and then doesn't even take care of them as it should.

I don't know if this thread will make a difference, but I hope it does. We do need to support our men and women who are spending their days just trying to stay alive. We need to support them by being as patriotic as possible by speaking the truth about this failed system and working for a significant change which will ensure their continued care once we get them all home.

Finally, because I won't be able to stomach the "but he volunteered" or "he was stupid son of a bitch" comments I know are coming, I'm not going to re-check this thread.

[Nickster]

1. Makes sense to me. I got your back. n/t

[xmas74]

2. Kick.

Because it deserves it.

And check your pm.

[Minnesota Libra]

3. I believe as you do that the REAL responsibility does not stop with.......

.....our troops but rather goes to the very top and the liars who put them there. Bush should be put on trial for war crimes and murder.

[Ganja Ninja]

14. Not just the liars at the top but the whole country that supported ...

this war.
I remember when this thing started and one of my co-workers came in to my office practically giddy with anticipation for not only this war but the war with Iran. He could hardly contain himself with glee that we would have all that cheap oil and it wouldn't cost us anything. I'm sure he wasn't the only person in this country that was all too happy to make war and steal from another country.
People here cheer and take pride when we bomb a country that can only offer token resistance. We kill these people with impunity from the air. We sell their government WMD's to use on their own people. We sanction them and refuse them food and medicine. All the while we cynically spout rhetoric about freedom and democracy. Is there any wonder how such a callous attitude toward slaughter doesn't rub off on our troops.

[TAPat]

4. K&R

[Lerkfish]

5. well spoken.

[madokie]

6. A young kid full of hope and his future is ripped right out of his grasp

so sad, so many betrayed by bushco*
Rec

[wtmusic]

7. We need a Sec. of Defense who is willing to make changes:

1) Increase pay & benefits
2) Crack down on false advertising
3) Crack down on coverups and rogue actions
4) Renew a commitment to honor Geneva
5) Raise the bar on admittance

Your story is tragic. But I am among the most vehement critics of American war crimes on the site, and I have yet to hear anyone generically label enlistees as "stupid" or imply "they asked for it".

Besides being immoral as hell, the military's code of silence and propaganda efforts discourage "good" soldiers and undermine recruitment. Without changes, in five years we will have a a REAL national security problem.

[rwork]

8. You letter does make a difference.

We need to re-emphasise how bad PTSD is. I have a brother-in-law (Vietnam veteran) who told me more about the about the disorder.He said it has never gone away. It only gets worse. He never had help or treatment.Very tough, macho. He remembers waking up in the middle of the night pointing a gun at his wife. Sometimes waking up choking her. He thought she was enemy trying to kill him.

[spuddonna]

26. My uncle came back from Vietnam and slept under his bed...

My mom had the job of going in to wake him up. She would poke him with a broom (per his instructions) because he still hadn't gotten used to 'being civilized again'...

My mom has never gotten over how her little brother looked when he would wake up, thrashing out at the broom...

[treestar]

9. All soldiers do not need to be defended because of the ones in

Haditha who allegedly did what they are accused of.

No one said anything negative about our relatives who served in the past or are serving over there today and not doing dishonorable acts.

You are falling for a freeper tactic in reverse. They equate punishing wrongdoing of one soldier with "punishing" the military as a whole in order to undermine its entire mission. That premise is logically wrong and we end up fighting it all the time.

[Bridget Burke]

10. I've seen posts here at DU....

Indicating lack of sympathy for ALL our soldiers because "they volunteered."

[Scoody Boo]

17. One of the biggest obstacles...

to winning elections in the South is the percieved immage of Democrats as troop bashers, which unfortunately is perpetuated by a lot of members here.

[Blue_Tires]

18. there is a difference

between 'bashing' and calling someone out when they have done something wrong

and from my observations in the southern states i've lived in, dems have trouble winning not because of their percieved image on the military, but because they are not 'godly' enough, or don't think all the 'queers' should be rounded up and shot...

[Scoody Boo]

20. I know, and I mean bashing.

It is sickening. A friend of mine had a daughter serving in Iraq. She was wounded and when he posted about it, she was called a baby killer by members here.

The posts were later deleted, but screencaps are around. I have not been here long (though I have lurked since 2004) and I have seen dozens of posts bashing the troops for not deserting.

Right after the election there were a lot of "Troops deserve what they get" posts when 70% of them voted for Bush.

I know what I am talking about.

I have cut the Marines of the Haditha story and want appropriate punishments for them if found guilty. But I do not use the same brush to paint all of the Military.

Last week's Jesse MacBeth story is a fine example. A lot of people's panties on here were all wet and squishy with glee because there was a "soldier" coming forward with stories of Army Ranger atrocities in Fallujah. The guy was revealed as a fake within minutes of his story coming out. Yet many members clung to the story for days, wanting, maybe even praying for it to be true.

The Marines in Haditha are being investigated. The truth will come out. I am hoping that it will turn out not to be true. I wonder how many DU members are hoping that it is.

[Blue_Tires]

23. well, Jesse Macbeth and Haditha aside

proven atrocities have been going on since the invasion started (i.e. abu ghriab and others)

but, that being said, we will wait and see what is under the rocks this investigation kicks over

[Bridget Burke]

25. The "percieved immage" is incorrect.

And a good bit of the "troop bashing" here comes from fake DU'ers.

[Scoody Boo]

27. Not entirely...

many of the DU troop bashers have had quite a longevity as members and thousands of posts.

[Blue_Tires]

30. you don't think fake DUers/trolls

aren't able to settle in and rack up 1000+ posts easily? (and shell out 10 buck to get that extra 'star' of credibility?)

during my time here, i've seen at least 20 well-known, well respected, longtime donators with 2000-3000 posts that outed themselves when they became bored...

[lostnfound]

32. What's worse than writting troop-bashing posts? Calling attention to them.

I've seen far more posts bemoaning that 'quite a few DUers' 'bash the troops' etc (wet and squishy?? Uggh.) than I've EVER seen actually bashing them.

[Pacifist Patriot]

11. No, I've seen what she is talking about.

As the child of a Vietnam Vet I too am highly sensitive to it. I don't track such comments so I'm afraid I can't point you to a specific link but I bet someone else could.

Any time talk of such atrocities comes up we inevitably have some who make claims about anyone volunteering for the military being disposed to this kind of heinous behavior and that's why they joined in the first place. "Is it any wonder?" Or brushing off the trauma because they somehow deserve it because they volunteered for the military and well, everyone knows the military can be called to serve in combat. "What did they expect?"

I know exactly what Lynda is talking about and I thank her for posting what she said.

[babylonsister]

13. Beg to differ.

I've read many opinions from DUers who think all soldiers should be held accountable for the horrid actions of a few. There are some around here who think the whole Marine Corps should be disbanded because of the actions of a few.
I agree with the OP. We need to differentiate.

Edit to add example:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1317380&mesg_id=1317414

[Catrina]

24. That was one post by a new poster. The rest of the thread disagreed

with him/her. It's an election year and what I've noticed are several new posters acting out the RW 'democrats hate the military' lie, some more cleveraly than others. Since I've been on DU and other boards, I've noticed nothing of the kind regarding the troops. I have seen and agree with, fury at the lies that got us into this war, at Donald Rumsfeld (who is hated by the troops, both from this war and from Gulf War 1.) Several years ago, veterans were demanding that he step down because of the lies he told before Congress.

Since many DUers including myself, and like the OP, have family members currently serving in the military, or are veterans themselves, probably more on this board than any other I've been on, just because one or two people make statements like that, certainly doesn't reflect an entire board. To say it does is the same as blaming the entire military for the actions of a few.

It's been clear from the beginning of this war that the neocon leadership are 'into' brutality. Listen to Richard Perle, eg, when he is asked how do you negotiate with people and his answer will be 'use a big stick'.

What needs to be faced is that the leaderership of this country is made up of some pretty sick individuals who have promoted torture as a policy. Any president who put a man like Negroponte in a position to make policy in Iraq, clearly supports brutality.

What I don't get is why this bunch of crooks were allowed to take over this country. We were told the war in Iraq would take 'months, no weeks maybe'. Much as I despise these people, even I believed that lie. But we know now they never intended for it to be over quickly. All you have to do is read their own words to know that 'chaos' is what they want in the ME. The troops mean nothing to them.

Everything that happens in Iraq is the fault of the leadership. It is also now the fault of Congress for not doing its job and addressing the criminality involved in this war, and ultimately the American people for not doing enough to stop it. The troops should never have been put in this situation to begin with.

[babylonsister]

29. Yes, Catrina, and that was but one thread.

While I agree with you wholeheartedly about this admin and where fault ultimately lies, I was responding to the person who said "No one said anything negative about our relatives who served in the past or are serving over there today and not doing dishonorable acts." That just isn't the case; there are differing opinions on DU, this being the most recent in my memory, and I was just trying to point that out.

I don't get why there isn't a huge movement to unseat these bums who seem to have no intention of changing the damaging course of this war, regardless of how many people die as a result. I guess we sit and wait in hope that come November, someone will take the bull by the horns and make some motions to finally do the right thing.

[pecwae]

15. You must have missed those posts here

There have been more than I ever thought I would see.

[Mr_Spock]

12. Thanks so much for relaying this story to us.

It's terrible how our kids are being treated over there. I don't sympathize with the RW types who post from Iraq that the Iraqi's are all "dirt bags" that "can't be trusted" and so they have to kill the "sand niggers". I do, however, realize that those that post that sort of mindless crap are in the minority and are dealing with the situation the way they were raised to - which goes to your point of the military luring the most vulnerable in our society with empty promises. The whole situation is a tragedy from every perspective - I see no winners here.

I hope we learn as a nation after this awful quagmire is over.

[al bupp]

16. I hope that you do come back to this thread

I think you would be perhaps pleasantly surprised by the tone of the responses. Allow me to add my 2 cents.

Thank you for taking the time to share your nephew's story.

I sincerely hope that he finds the help he needs to regain some peace in his life.

I agree w/ you that we should direct our anger towards aspects of our culture & institutions that romanticizes and ignores the brutal realties of war.

We should be angry at our so-called leaders who manipulate, equivocate and even down right lie in order to convince the public to accept their crazy war plans.

It is criminal the way our military institutions too often treat those who serve, sending them on ill-conceived missions w/ sub-standard equipment, under almost impossible situations, and then when they're home, for good measure, subjecting them to a heartless bureaucracy.

I salute the spirit of honor and giving which you say motivated him to sign-up. Hopefully some of his noble sentiments can survive his military experience.

[mmonk]

19. I always place the blame on those that send them

and those that give illegal orders as well. Of course, such actions are not humane to partake in or accept. Many of our young people when they return will be messed up for life. When one takes the life of an innocent, two die that day, one physically and another inside. It's a heavy burden. War should be a last resort, not an ongoing foreign policy.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

21. Kicked and Recommended

[OregonBlue]

22. I also sympathize with those young inexperienced men but, were

the marines that committed the atrocity in Haditha young, inexperienced soldiers? I thought they were some elite unit with lots of experience. This is not a slam, it's a sincere question.

[Ohio Joe]

28. Well said

A Friend of mine is still over seas. K&R

[Kurovski]

31. K&R(nt)