BREAKING, REP. STEVE KING (R-IA): IRAQ IS SAFER THAN DC

[Halliburton]

http://thinkprogress.org/2006/05/31/dc-safer-iraq/

<snip>
Despite media coverage purporting to show that escalating violence in Iraq has the country spiraling out of control, civilian death statistics complied by Rep. Steve King, R-IA, indicate that Iraq actually has a lower civilian violent death rate than Washington, D.C.
…
Using Pentagon statistics cross-checked with independent research, King said he came up with an annualized Iraqi civilian death rate of 27.51 per 100,000.
<snip>

:wow:

...DEVELOPING AS FAST AS JASON LEOPOLD CAN SAY "24 BUSINESS HOURS"...

[unhappycamper]

1. Yea, but that's 27.51 per 12-hour period.

Methinks he made a math error. :shrug:

[Gman]

2. Didn't Rummy use that line a couple of years ago?

It's definitely recycled.

[smokey nj]

12. I think it was Shit Hume on Fux News who made that

ridiculous comparison. Fucking idiots.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

24. When Hume did that, he was ONLY considering U.S. casualties, with

the whole population of Iraq as the denominator.

This was subsequently pointed out to him and he had to back off of that.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

33. recycled and

regurgitated. Leftovers suck. :eyes:

[katty]

57. I think so - wow - they are really desperate

[AX10]

3. What are the chances of defeating him?

[spindrifter]

4. This is unspeakable

crap. First of all, why would there be comparability between one metropolitan area and an entire country? He needs to produce his methodology.

[AlamoDemoc]

21. Washington DC is where these neocon bastards reside over in congress

and Iraq is where we kill innocent brown people. But these racist bastards can't tell the difference.

[Paulie]

5. How does the Pentagon have numbers on Civilian deaths???

They are NOT tracking them, and haven't since what, 1991??? Definitely not since 2003.

Did he use the pre firebombing of Faluja population numbers or after the willy pete?

Lying sack.....

[DesEtoiles]

6. Breaking - Rep Steve King is an ass!

[malaise]

49. Does he have any 'peacerful Iraq' photos

from Turkey to go along with this bull.

[LSK]

7. then he should go there and give a speech about it

OUTSIDE the Green Zone with NO protection from our troops.

[Dr.Phool]

8. That's all I remember about my last trip to D.C.

Car bombs going off all over the place. Dead bodies everywhere.:sarcasm:

I'm gonna have to send this ass-hat a letter. That's the nice thing about fax machines and unlimited long distance.

[NewJeffCT]

9. Didn't Brit Hume say this regarding Iraq vs California?

a few years back?

[marmar]

10. How can one political party be so filled with assholes?

These people are just off-the-charts psychotic. :crazy:

[TheCowsCameHome]

16. Isn't it unreal? It's like a magnet for misfits.

[colbushwhacker_2000]

11. This crazy bastard is

my Congressman.........he is such a puke.......

[TheCowsCameHome]

13. Brave words from a sheltered RW know-it-all.

[SPKrazy]

14. He Should Go There And Wander Outside The Green Zone Without Bodyguards

then he can say how safe he felt

what a Bushista

these asses have to go down and GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY GOVERNMENT!

[TheCowsCameHome]

18. Like that loony Laura Ingraham -

She made it sound like she was free to wander all over Baghdad whenever she pleased.

[elehhhhna]

50. Same car & driver as he uses in DC. Fair is fair. He's got 24 hours

outside the Green Zone. Why not?

[Scout1071]

15. Please tell me he's up for re-election this year.

Please.

[Dr.Phool]

17. If he's a Congressman, he's up for re-election this year.

US Reps are up for election every 2 years. Senate 6 years.

[longship]

19. What district is he in?

Will it be in play in November?

[Barrett808]

20. Professor Pollkatz debunks here:

You're far more likely to die violently in a Red state than a Blue state
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1324593

[Igel]

22. But he doesn't.

He says it's false, but the reasoning that's given 'below' (in context) isn't given. I have to assume this is excerpted and 'below' refers to some other text in some other document. He also doubts the number--which is fine, and the number King cites for Iraq is probably wrong. But saying something like 'this number is almost certainly too low' isn't proof; it's expressing doubt. If everything I expressed doubt about was disproven, I'd have to say quantum physics would have been considered disproven when I took physical chemistry decades ago.

Ordinarily I'd say that comparing a country to a city is, indeed, disingenuous. But that's because usually the reason for the comparison needs suitable comparison: even then, you want to make sure your comparison's reasonable. Comparing Afghanistan and Vatican City is hardly ever reasonable (but again, I'm sure I could find a reason to compare them). Here, the comparison's just for shock value.

Even for shock value, comparing Iraq to the US is a fairly pointless exercise; even more so if you include accidental deaths.

The CDC info is interesting, but it would be interesting to work out the red/blue business more thoroughly. (But even then, I'm not sure what it would show.)

[Barrett808]

36. Fair enough -- This analysis directly refutes King:

Violent Death Rate in Baghdad: 35 times Higher Than New York City
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2314578&mesg_id=2316862

[Vinnie From Indy]

23. Maybe this moron can tell us when the last time was that DC Police

found over ONE HUNDRED dead bodies over the course of a weekend as happened in the single city of Baghdad this last weekend.

[MannyGoldstein]

25. He's Wrong - Here's The Real Numbers

This post from my site shows the real numbers:

Violent Death Rate in Baghdad: 35 times Higher Than New York City

[Barrett808]

42. Great analysis, MannyG -- I've been posting all over

We should trumpet this far and wide. Also, we should email to Rep. King's office.

[MannyGoldstein]

53. I'll re-post as a new topic.

Along with King's email.

[Barrett808]

62. Excellent, maybe you can post the link here. n/t

[sofa king]

26. Is DC still the Murder Capital of the U.S.?

http://www.safestreetsdc.com/subpages/murdercap.html

That should make Iraq the Murder Capital of something, shouldn't it?

When we look at the murder rate within DC, we're not looking at the DC metro area with its much safer suburbs. We're not looking at the Federal District within DC, where aside from fake terrorism warnings there is virtually no violent crime at all; nor are we speaking of the now-gentrified U-Street corridor, which only recently recovered from the riots of the 1960s. For that matter, all of Northwest is more or less suburbanized and relatively sedate, Northeast is following step, Southwest is mostly government buildings, and the right bank of Southeast is about to be paved over to make way for a baseball stadium.

No, when you want to talk about murders in DC, you're talking about a few square miles of Hell which is very intentionally kept separate from the rest of the city by train tracks, highways, and the Anacostia River. After Mr. Crack came to town with Ronald Reagan, Anacostia lost everything. Police wouldn't patrol there, and when they did, they emptied their guns into anyone who looked at them sideways. Ambulances wouldn't come when called. There were no pay phones that worked. For the better part of a decade, there wasn't even a grocery store in Anacostia--the people survived thanks to courageous delivery truck drivers. And people died by the hundreds, every year.

Yeah, that's starting to sound a little bit more like Iraq, isn't it? There are a few obvious differences, like the fact that you could drop Anacostia and all of its suffering in the Tigris River and lose it, and fewer Americans have had reason to go to Anacostia than to Iraq in recent years. I'll bet lots of money that Rep. King has never been to that section of DC, and if that guy ever scrapes up the courage to go take a real look at it, then he will find himself ashamed for making the comparison.

He will find himself ashamed because Anacostia doesn't resemble the rest of the United States at all--Anacostia should not be the way it is. I wouldn't last twelve hours in Anacostia and neither would Rep. King. Now imagine what an entire country like that could be, only worse.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

30. You wouldn't last 12 hours in Anacostia?

Cops "emptied their guns into anyone who looked at them sideways"? C'mon, that's a bit of a stretch, wouldn't you say? I do agree that Anacostia "should not be the way it is," in spite of the many decent people living and working there. The stadium will likely bring gentrification to parts of the area, for better or worse. And don't ever count on a Republican feeling ashamed for bashing DC - they thrive on it. They need big, bad, unsafe, corrupt Washington, D.C. to kick around and promise to clean up.

The data in the link you posted appears to be from 2001-2002 - have anything more recent?

[sofa king]

32. No, that's why I was asking.

I don't know which city has that dubious honor now. Traditionally, it's been traded between DC, Detroit, Chicago, and Richmond, VA.

And while a bit hyperbolic, the emptying the guns bit is a reference to this article and numerous others on exactly that subject.

The shootings involve a small proportion of the District's 3,550 officers. But the details of individual cases can be chilling even to police veterans: An off-duty police officer out walking his dog in August 1995 fired 11 times while trying to stop an unarmed motorist who had hit a utility pole and left the scene of the accident. An off-duty police officer fishing in May 1995 shot an unarmed man three times after arguing with him on the banks of Rock Creek. In August, an officer ended a police chase of an irrational truck driver who had rammed several cars by firing 38 times into the truck's cab, killing the unarmed driver.

So I say it again, if Iraq is as fucked up as Anacostia is, Iraq is in one helluva lot of trouble.

[Laughing Mirror]

56. Anacostia gets blamed for crimes it doesn't even commit

"An off-duty police officer fishing in May 1995 shot an unarmed man three times after arguing with him on the banks of Rock Creek."

Rock Creek is in NW, on the other side of the river from Anacostia.

The article doesn't give a locale for the other crimes, but why not let's just locate them in Anacostia. None will be the wiser.

People that don't know any better just automatically label everything east of the river as Anacostia, but Anacostia is just one neighborhood of many in Southeast, and the slice of the city east of the river includes parts of Northeast, Southeast and Southwest DC, as well.

I grew up in Southeast and Southwest off South Capitol Street, down near Bolling, back when it was much more populated and crowded than it is today, when nobody had air conditioners and the city kept dumping more more over-crowded cinder-block projects and ugly cheap apartments down in our hills, taking all the trees and the shade away. Some of those places have been torn down, and a lot of trees have grown back. I still have family in Southeast and it will always be my home. For us, the neighborhood of Anacostia consists basically of the streets north and south of Good Hope Road and east of the Freeway over to Ft Stanton park. The Big Chair, in the old Curtis Brothers parking lot on MLK Avenue, and Cedar Hill, the home of Frederick Douglass off Morris Road, is in the neighborhood of Anacostia, but St. Elizabeth's Hospital down the avenue is in Congress Heights, and the beautiful area of big houses and yards farther east, off Branch Avenue and Texas Avenue that you might mistake for Spring Valley or Chevy Chase, is called Hillcrest. In Southwest are houses and apartments and Bolling, DC Village, and the Blue Plains sewage plant, which treats the shit of the citizens not only of DC but of the entire DC metropolitan area, except maybe for outer exurbia.

After decades of hearing the myth hammered in repeatedly about how so horribly dangerous is Anacostia and the "Far Southeast" (meaning, to me, anything that is not in the trendy Capitol Hill part of Southeast), I get so sick of all the ills of the entire city being attributed to poor old downtrodden Anacostia. Anacostia has lots of history to us natives. It is, and in my lifetime has always been, a poor neighborhood. It used to be a lot more crowded and busy than it is today. It seems much more quieter to me now, but there's still crime and drugs and desperation, but there are still people sitting out on porches from old turn of the century houses amidst the abandoned rotting houses like so many other poor abandoned areas distributed all throughout the city.

Why don't you just hop on the Metro over to honeysuckle wilds of Southeast DC and enjoy it for yourself. There's Civil War Forts you can visit up in the hills, but you might want to work your way down starting at the top, at Frederick Douglass's Cedar Hill, which looks down across the river at the Capitol and the Monument. Because it is the highest point over the confluence of the Potomac with its eastern branch, the neighborhood we call Anacostia was the village where the king of the local indian tribes from both sides of the rivers was enthroned when Captain John Smith first paid a visit in 1607. In his captain's logs, he describes the eastern branch, the Anacostia, as sparkling and teeming with all manner of flapping fish fairly leaping out of its crystalline waters. Look at it now.

[sofa king]

68. I think all of you are missing my point.

Which, stated again, is that the situation is unacceptable in both Washington, DC AND Iraq.

The article I cited above was about DC cops emptying their guns into people, not just DC cops emptying their guns into people in Anacostia. You want me to find a cite for that? I cite my "We Miss You Pappy" T-shirt, circa 1988.

And yes, I too am pleased to see Anacostia improved slightly over the past twenty years. I wonder if that hopeful two-decade long story bears comparison to our presence in Iraq as well?

I don't know, maybe nobody gets murdered in Washington and the dead bodies are just shipped in from truly dangerous places. It would help if I could show a map, but DC is so fucked up that it doesn't accurately record the location of where violent crimes were committed. Instead, it records where the call came from. As a result, Howard University Hospital is "the most dangerous place in DC," according to this map. Nevertheless, the 3D perspective map on that page shows that most violent crime occurs in SE.

In conclusion, I'd like to say,

The situation is unacceptable in both Washington, DC AND Iraq.
The situation is unacceptable in both Washington, DC AND Iraq.
The situation is unacceptable in both Washington, DC AND Iraq.
The situation is unacceptable in both Washington, DC AND Iraq.
The situation is unacceptable in both Washington, DC AND Iraq.
The situation is unacceptable in both Washington, DC AND Iraq.
The situation is unacceptable in both Washington, DC AND Iraq.
The situation is unacceptable in both Washington, DC AND Iraq.
The situation is unacceptable in both Washington, DC AND Iraq.
The situation is unacceptable in both Washington, DC AND Iraq.

[pointblank]

64. Actually

I thought it was Trenton, NJ that took over the lead spot for murders per capita in the US for 2005...I know I read that somewhere, I'll try to find a link.


On edit: I was thinking of CAMDEN NJ:

http://www.morganquitno.com/cit04r.pdf

[Leopolds Ghost]

35. I don't recall any mass graves last time I was in Anacostia -- on foot

I saw a guy who looked like he might want to mug me one time, but I scared him off.

Mind you I wasn't in Simple City, and parts of the area WERE a war-zone in the 1980s.

I know a couple folks who taught at a school in Simple City where they sent all the hard cases. They militarized it, hiring ex-Marine types after an incident occured where a teacher was beaten to death. They actually had alot of success until a cop was shot down the street from the school by persons unknown and the neighbors insisted it was one of the students (many of whom had mental problems). Instead of DC cops, the Feds ordered in Russian mercenaries (ex-Soviet special forces who were being trained as SWAT team -- this was in the late 80s around the fall of the Berlin Wall) coming down off helicopters.

No part of DC is like that since the 1994 drop in crime (which was keyed off by a change in basic police tactics by the reintroduction of beat cops -- until the mid-1990s, criminologists insisted it was NOT the police's JOB to DETER crime, only to swoop in on motorized vehicles after the fact, which was convenient to the new auto-dominated cities where they could centralize police services in fortress-like complexes. I predicted this change in the early 1990's.)

The attitudes of the "incompetent people hired by Marion Barry due to their race", as you suggest, were in fact shared by all the white people who left the city long before the 1960's riots. "Burn it down and build a park with condos in it" was the general attitude of most affluent whites until the mid-90s. Why would you expect the working-class "Ward 9" cops and bureaucrats that Marion Barry hired (none of whom lived in DC) to feel any different? They didn't want to invest in the city either.

Do you think the current Nagin-like Mayor of DC, darling of the white establishment, feels any different when he talks about demolishing half of the public schools because the people he wants to attract simply don't have kids and his white constituents would never permit him to waste money trying to get THEIR kids into a mostly-black school system?

Or the bankers who tell both city and developers "we will NOT fund anything you do, if you try and bring families back to DC, most of them will be under $100,000 that is considered poor, that is bad for tax rates and bad for property values." ??

Sorry for getting off-topic here...

[Laughing Mirror]

60. Anyway, Simple City is not even in Anacostia

It's upstream, if you will.

Institution racism in the city of the District of Columbia is not new and will continue as long as the city has no control over its destiny. Back around 1970, a white career cop, Jerry Wilson, was made police chief. The city was three-quarters black and certainly not getting any whiter, and had about 200,000 more people than live there today. People didn't like a white police chief for the Chocolate City, but most of the police force was still white, so I guess the real power that controls the city made the decision the police chief should be the same color as 70% of the police force, fuck the citizens.

I've never heard the term Ward 9 cops. Since there is no Ward 9 in DC, does it mean cops that don't live in DC, "in town" as we used to say?

[Recursion]

39. DC was NEVER the murder capital of the US

That's an anti-urban (anti-black) lie that has gained remarkable traction.

DC was, for a time, the metropolitan area with the highest murder rate. If you include small towns, the reigning murder capital has been for years a small town in Missouri (Lexington? Something like that). And most small towns have a higher murder rate than DC at its highest.

Marion Barry once took some flak for saying "if you ignore the random murders, DC has a very low crime rate" -- he was right. DC was safer than most towns in the country, but your risk of randomly being shot by someone you didn't know was higher (your overall risk of being shot, though, was lower).

[Laughing Mirror]

63. Richard Shithouse Nixon dubbed our federal city "crime capital"

As he was installing himself at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW in 1968. Also, that same year, George Wallace, who was also running for president, promised that, if elected, he would put a cop on every corner. These racist lies were planted a long long time ago, and they have never been properly debunked.

I would say that all of the really truly serious crime that takes place in the District of Columbia takes place in the Federal part of the city, at the White House, across the river at the Pentagon, and on Capitol Hill.

[Aristus]

27. Um...is he moving his Congressional office to Baghdad?

...just asking...

[Lord Binky]

28. Republicans consider that a good thing?

To me, that'd just show how messed up our country is. Even though I bet it isn't true.

[Marr]

29. Steve King... isn't he the guy who was on video saying,

"it's (the 2004 Presidential election) all over but the counting- and we'll take care of the counting"?

[Barrett808]

37. Wasn't that one of the NY reps?

I remember that moment well. Bastard.

[Marr]

45. You're right. That was Peter King from New York.

That video just blew me away.

[Barrett808]

65. I think Rep. King had been drinking a bit too much beer

I wonder if anybody spoke to him afterward.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

31. Yet, he encourages his constituents to visit.

I guess he just means the "white" areas.

http://www.house.gov/steveking/constit_tours.shtm

[Leopolds Ghost]

34. "White" Areas

Notice how Fox News Played up this report tonight by sampling not just DC but THREE US Cities which -- Fox Claims -- support King's allegations.

The three cities were -- you guessed it -- Detroit, Baltimore and DC.

The ONLY three major cities in the country (thanks to Katrina) with a majority black population.

Never mind that hundreds of municipalities across the country have a higher murder rate than DC, that DC is no longer near the top of the
most dangerous cities in the country (care to impeach some of your towns in Iowa, Mr. King?) Or that you can't compare the murder rate in a country mostly desert, with WAR-RELATED INJURIES EXEMPTED FROM THE STATISTICS, to any heavily populated city anywhere and get a meaningful result that tells you how safe it is.

And really, if it's so safe for Iraqis, why should they give a f*ck that Americans, who are always on the news beating down doors and such, are dying? Shouldn't they just ignore the American deaths the way the Republicans ignore deaths of people THEY hate, who live in the inner city?

After reporting on the Rep. King issue (headline: Iraq safer than DC?)

They immediately went to Hannity and Colmes for a heated 3-on-1 argument against the allegations of the black victim in the Duke rape case

(featuring 3 bottle-blonds arguing that the stripper must have been drunk or drugged).

Then on to Greta Van Susteren for a round-up on not one, not two but
THREE on-going stories of ACTUAL blonde white women that are missing
and presumed innocent (naturally).

One of them (a "model") even died from a drug overdose and Fox insisted that she was poisoned by her lover in Cabo!!!

This was all within an hour, folks.

Finders/Looters, meet Black Chick/Blonde Chick...

in the roll of disparate treatment.

[stepnw1f]

38. Is He Up for Re-election?

I hope so...

[Barrett808]

40. Debunked here: Baghdad violent death rate 35 times Higher Than NYC

Violent Death Rate in Baghdad: 35 times Higher Than New York City
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2314578&mesg_id=2316862

[madinmaryland]

41. Gee, I don't remember the last time a car bomb went off in DC.

:wtf:

let alone 6 times a day, everyday.

[Barrett808]

43. Or when 40 mutilated bodies showed up on the sidewalk. n/t

[Ioo]

44. ThinkProgress has Debunked this... I think we are making more of it

Um, it does not pass the smell test, I think that we are making it more of a talking point than the RW is.


http://thinkprogress.org/2006/05/31/dc-safer-iraq/

[mmonk]

46. Then he should move his office there.

[Blue_Tires]

47. oh, if iraq is SO safe and secure

we can finally pull out all the troops and let the iraqis go about their business, right??:sarcasm:

[npincus]

48. why doesn't he vacation there? With his kids?

[BurtWorm]

51. Hey, stupid! Iraq is a country. DC is a city.

Compare DC with Baghdad or Basra. Idiot.

[npincus]

52. Let's RAISE $$$ to send him THERE!!!

How much is a RT ticket to Baghdad? I'm not kidding.

[Nickster]

54. Please remind me never to go to DC. Must be a heck of a rough place. n/t

[Roland99]

55. Tom DeLay once said Baghdad is no worse than Houston.

These people are just batshit insane and don't give a fuck what comes out of their mouth.

[spanone]

58. Shit, I'm moving my family to Iraq today.Hell, how wrong could I have been

:sarcasm: Sounds like desperate stupidity to me.

[meow2u3]

59. STP to Steve King: MOVE THERE!!!

If you think Baghdad is so much safer then NY or DC, just pack up your bags and move there. Then you can write us back to see if your fantastic claims are indeed true.

[JuniperLea]

61. Maybe we should move our capital, President, et al, to Iraq

So they will be safer.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

66. Maybe the Honorable Rep King should take up residence in Haditha.

Heard there were some recent vacancies available.

[sendero]

67. Yes..

... and more people are killed in traffic accidents EVERY MONTH than were killed in the worst terrorist attack ever made on America - yet we are willing to spend BILLIONS, probably TRILLIONs on "terror" - a problem that will NEVER be solved militarily and vanishingly little on solving the slaughter on our roadways.