Did your Confederate ancestors die dishonorably?

[Bluerthanblue]

I must confess, that the ancestors I have, all fought for the Union Army-
But in listening to all the 'honor','noble', 'we must win'- 'not die in vain' stuff going on today,
the thought came to me, how do those who have lost loved ones on the 'losing side' (all sides lose)
square all this rehetoric???

I do not support the notion of slavery, now or ever- yet I've studied the Civil War enough to understand it was about far more than that-

Is the loss of a soldier who fought for what they were led to believe was their 'ideal' or the saftey of their homes and nation EVER ignoble?

What better way to honor the fallen, than to make sure no one ELSE ever falls?

Like never needing to use the training of a firefighter, or build jails that don't ever get occupied?
Isn't PREVENTION a 'loving' 'honoring' act??

or am I way out in left field?

blu

[wtmusic]

1. Not sure what Memorial Day has to do with honor

IMO it's about remembering those who died and who sacrificed themselves for what was (or what they thought was) a noble cause.

[uppityperson]

2. agree, not nec honoring why died, but remembering their deaths

remembering why rather than honoring why

[Bluerthanblue]

3. I agree with you

it is more a day fit for tears than parades. Regardless of the 'outcome'- Lives cut short, pre-maturely isn't something to celebrate, but rather to remember, and to meditate on, and perhaps learn from???

Maybe I've been listening to the rah-rah crowd too much lately-

peace,
blu

[wtmusic]

43. Sign on a Presbyterian church near me - "Happy Memorial Day"

:wtf: "Happy"? Why don't we just rename it Barbecue Day?

[Hubert Flottz]

4. I had ancestors on both sides.

Most died of old age.

[Bluerthanblue]

9. my Great

grandfather died of old age-
(very old age, as did his son, my grandfather- 92 and 94 respectivly)
But he lost 3 brothers in the war. One on the battlefield, one in 'hospital' and one (the youngest) who survived being shot, but who died back at home from what they believe was 'consumption'.
Their deaths, were tragic-
But so were the deaths of those they fought 'against'- at least in my view.

There really are no 'winners' in war. At least imho.

[Hubert Flottz]

16. None of my ancestors on either side ever owned slaves that I ...

know of. They were fighting for their "Rats"...

I have stood on the battlefields where some of the worst fighting took place and I always get a feeling of extreme sadness. Harper's Ferry Wv. is such a place. The people on both sides were American soldiers...PERIOD! The final draft of the Emancipation Proclamation, was signed January 1, 1863, in the third year of the war after thousands of soldiers on both sides, lay dead.

MISLEADERS cause wars!

[Bluerthanblue]

24. nor mine Hubert-

the issues went far beyond slavery-
And I too have felt the same sadness you speak of. I travelled with my dad, and sons to the site of one relatives final battle ground- in Gettysburg... it was profoundly unsettling. The magnitutde of the fighting, and the suffering of the sick and wounded, really began to sink in, reading my GGFathers "letters home" before the trip, and later standing there in a beautiful spring meadow nearly 150 years later and realizing how much more than just words on a page went down there, for flesh of my flesh- and the lives of people just like 'me' and you.

We are too removed from the suffering here. Maybe that is in part, why Europe was so loath to participate- except Great Britian. ?

[raccoon]

76. Even if they did, what does it matter?

A person has no control over whatever their ancestors did or didn't do.

Some of mine owned slaves, some didn't.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

5. Like you, my ancestors fought for the Union

But my husband had some uncles who fought on the other side-they were poor farmers, and frankly he thinks they didn't fight and die dishonorably, but they were led into war by dishonorable people, who, like the Bush cabal today, catered to prejudice and encouraged ignorance.

Lincoln once was dissuaded from visiting a hospital tent because its occupants were "only rebels". Lincoln went in, though, honoring their service for, in his words, "they did the best they knew." He never blamed the war on the common soldier.

That being said, my brother, a career Army officer who was decorated in Viet Nam, has discouraged his children from entering the military. There is no "noble cause", and heaven knows that vets today aren't treated with the respect given to the men who wore blue and grey so many years ago.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

6. The South considered itself

invaded by the North. Very few southerners owned slaves. Most Confederates were fighting to keep the enemy away from their hometowns.

It's interesting that Tallahassee is the only Southern state capital not to fall.

I have ancestors on both sides of the issue, but none of them fell in battle.

[LA lady]

10. Military Cemetery

An interesting thing. We used to live by a Military Cemetery and the Boy Scouts would place small American flags on all the Soldier's graves on Memorial Day. After they finished, the staff would remove the American flags off the Confederate war dead and replace them with tiny Confederate flags.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

14. That doesn't surprise me at all

I am an avid genealogist and discovered the gravesite (via records) of a missing ggg-grandfather who was a War of 1812 veteran. We had looked for him on the family homesite in Americus, GA, to no avail. Turns out his widow was buried much later in the Americus City Cemetery and they moved him there later. Their son, a Confederate soldier, was buried with them. He died ten years after Appomattox and evidently from war wounds. The historical groups got ahold of this and were horrified that a Confederate and an 1812 vet were buried without proper honors, and then did a huge to-do, complete with cannon and lots of guys dressed in various uniforms representing all kinds of troops. At one point they sang the Confederate anthem and said the pledge to the Confederacy. I just couldn't do it..just kind of mumbled!

But I really do recognize that the Confederacy was NOT a bunch of ignorant bigots. They were just on the wrong side of a moral issue. Some were stinkers, and some were fine men and they lost.

[hlthe2b]

19. I honestly don't know--imagine I have them on both sides...

since my grandparents on both sides were from the rural border state of Missouri--smack in the middle of the area that Quantrail's riders and Jesse James wreaked havoc against union sympathizers, but became folk heros to many. This was an area of homesteaders and dirt farmers--no slave owners anywhere around--German and Irish immigrants largely.

But, say what you will about the movie "Gone With the Wind," the barbeque scene where Rhett Butler is arguing with all the young testosterone-driven boys and young men-- prepared, neh salivating, to go to war with the North-- that scene hits it on the mark. How many times have we all heard from today's young men (and women, I suppose) whose youth has blinded them to the truth, and who are all hyped to fight for some bigger cause of American Patriotism or some mistaken notion of response to 911? While I think most people have awakened, this was very common, right after 911.

I don't believe the soldier (from either side) was much different in the civil war. I don't castigate the average southern soldier nor believe that they were fighting specifically to defend slavery. In their mind, they were fighting against northern aggression or at least for some sense of righteousness that far exceeded that one issue. Ditto, I believe the average union soldier was fighting to retain the union, and not for issues related to slavery. Slavery was to be permitted in the new frontier territories, after all.

I feel very strongly that those who want to paint he south and the confederacy in simplistic terms--as racists and treasonists--need to spend a great deal of time reading history. (Not implying anyone on this thread has done so, but we do have this attitude come up--even on DU-from time to time). If you have relatives that wore a union or confederate uniform, I have no reason to believe either was anything but honorable--to the times that they lived.

[raccoon]

74. Especially liked your last paragraph.

Another thing, the South had a draft. So did the North, but in the North you could get out of it by hiring somebody to go in your place, or else paying $300 and not having to go.

Same shit, different century, huh?

A lot of the Northern soldiers were immigrants, especially Irish immigrants.

[hlthe2b]

82. yes...(re: same shit, different century...)

thanks...seems we'll never learn.

[El Supremo]

31. Grannie, you forgot Texas!

Not only didn't Austin fall, but the state was never, repeat, never invaded. The Yankees tried but were turned back at Sabine Pass. The last battle of the War for Southern Independence was on an island (Matagorda?) and the Texans won!

[TallahasseeGrannie]

32. Boy, am I embarrassed

I didn't know Texas was in the Confederacy!

Sorry!

I had a number of ancestors who lost in the Civil War head to Texas and fight there. Name was Bullock.

[El Supremo]

33. That's OK.

One of my Greatgrandfathers was a cavalryman with Company A, Laycock's brigade. He was in Louisiana and got real sick with something. He received a pittance of a pension from Texas later.

Two of my other Greatgrandfathers were bluebellies, The fourth was still in Prussia and came over in the 1870's

[Yupster]

55. In less than 30 years

Texas was in Mexico, was its own country, was in the USA, was in the Confederacy, and was in the USA again.

They joined the USA by popular vote of the voters, and left the USA the same way to join the Confederacy.

[Bridget Burke]

72. Sam Houston was Governor when Texas seceded....

He refused to swear allegiance to the Confederacy & was removed from office.

Reportedly, Houston said that Davis was "as ambitious as Lucifer, cold as a snake, and what he touches will not prosper."

[Yupster]

78. Yes, approval of secession was by no means

universal in Texas.

At the secession convention, Governor Houston was clearly on the union side, and the most vocal anti-secession delegate was state senator James Throckmorton. The secession vote passed 166-8 though and Throckmorton later became a Confederate general.

Houston insisted on a vote of the people to leave the union as the people voted to join it in 1845. The vote was held and Texas voted 46,153 to leave and 14,747 to stay. Houston had slowed the process down enough to make Texas the last of the seven states to leave though. There wouldn't be any others until Lincoln called up the militia after Fort Sumpter and then Virginia, Tennessee, North Carolina and Arkansas left bringing the total to eleven states.

Kentucky and Missouri are mirky as they had congressmen in the US and Confederate congresses during the war.

[jpevahouse]

42. Letter

A Union soldier in a letter I read quoted a Rebel prisoner as asking "What is you'uns doin' down here fittin' us". I think the average Confederate soldier probably had little idea why they were fighting other than the Union army had invaded the Southern states.

[Yupster]

54. I didn't have family on either side

but by the second or third year of the war, the Confederate soldier went to war often when they were too old or unhealthy to fight in a battlefield where they knew they'd be horribly outnumbered, undersupplied, underarmed, and very likely to be killed or wounded. In fact right at half of all Confederate troops were killed (250,000) or wounded (250,000).

They fought because they were invaded and they tried to keep the invader from burning their crops, killing their livestock, ripping up their transportation and deposing their elected leaders.

They failed, but it wasn't because of lack of effort or valor.

[deaniac21]

70. What about Lee's Pennsylvania Campaign?

[Yupster]

81. What about it?

Lee certainly wasn't at his best at Gettysburg if that's what you mean.

The move from Virginia to Pennsuylvania was carried out masterfully, but once the battle started, Lee did a very poor job in my opinion.

[deaniac21]

84. The south was invading the north....duh.

[raccoon]

75. "Very few southerners owned slaves. " You said that right.

A lot of people have the idea that most white antebellum Southerners were slaveowners, except for a few who were too lazy and sorry to put forth any effort to acquire a huge plantation, mucho slaves, and a big white house.

I think GONE WITH THE WIND, especially, has contributed to this image.

[SoCalDem]

7. Every soldier feels as if he's on the "right side".. Every soldier

who dies has family who mourns him/her, and HAS to feel that their death was not "in vain".. In FACT, most ARE in vain.. The men who start the wars are never the ones who FIGHT them..

Most men/women in war are fighting to keep themselves and their buddies alive. Most do not have a philosophical "take" on the war...ALL wars are started with lies, half-truths and deception.(even the "worthy" ones)..

[liberaltrucker]

8. They most certainly didn't

As TG said, most considered the Union Army invaders.

They died for a cause they believed in according to
values of the day.

While I personally believe the cause was dead wrong,
I have no right to judge a previous generation by my
contemporary values.

[Arkansas Granny]

11. Actually, the only one I know about is my great-great grandfather

on my father's side. According to family lore, he refused to take sides during the Civil War so one night his neighbors came to his house, took him away and hanged him for trying to stay impartial.

[Rowdyboy]

12. My confederate ancestors died as honorably as did my union ancestors and

just as honorably as did my ancestors who deserted from the confederacy.

http://www.southbear.com/Laurel_History/War_Freestate.html

My heritage is American: union, confederate and deserter and I celebrate all three. They come together to make me.

Why should I call any of them dishonorable because of what they did during a nightmarish war 150 years ago that none of them wanted?

[hlthe2b]

26. I agree totally, Rowdyboy...

I fear we still haven't learned the lessons of that horrendous chapter in history, as it still divides us at times.

[Bluerthanblue]

13. thanks all, I didn't mean to imply in ANY manner-

that there was something to be 'ashamed' about if a soldier served in the Confederate Army-
The 'issues' that led up to that war were far deeper, and more controversial than the simple "war to free the slaves" that history books have made it out to be-

I read somewhere that Lincoln's.... ?.... sister-in-law? was at the White House during the war, and didn't approve of the War, or of the actions of the 'Union'- The respect, and tolerance that was shown her, and her family was pretty remarkable- wish I could remember where I read this.... But I do believe Mr. Lincoln had an enormous understanding of the gravity of waging war- and of the losses that were incurred by both sides. His Gettysburg Address speaks elequoently to this-

Some might say it was because it was 'brother fighting brother'- and likely that is true. But in the end, excecept for imperial wars.... is there really that much of a difference?

[Rowdyboy]

15. Mary Todd Lincoln's family were slave-owners, though she hated slavery

personally. It was a difficult time for everyone and loyalties were deeply divided. Also, the issues behind the war went FAR beyond slavery and were primarily economic.

[Bluerthanblue]

17. This mentality is what prompted the question:

"Our nation mourns the loss of our men and women in uniform. We will honour them by completing the mission for which they gave their lives, by defeating the terrorists, by advancing the cause of liberty and by laying the foundation of peace for a generation of young Americans," Bush added.

There has to be a better way to honor those who die, than by piling more bodies upon bodies- And to say that we have to 'win' to honor them, is pretty ego-centric, and depressing. We didn't win in Vietnam- can we not honor those who gave so much for a cause most of us still can't grasp??

General Robert E Lee was a very learned, and wise man. I don't for one minute believe he 'dis-honored' those who died under his command, by realizing that continued death and carnage was not only inevitible, but futile.... I believe his surrender was a noble, and compassionate thing to do- for everyone involved.

When will we ever learn?

[hlthe2b]

27. Robert E. Lee was a very honorable man...

Increasingly, our lack of good history courses in the schools have led some to demonize him. A West Point trained General, he faced the horrible decision that so many faced, when their own famiy and friends, home town and state entered into the confederacy. There was a winning side, yes. But it is far too simplistic to define one side as "right" and the other as "deeply wrong."

[BeachBuckeye]

38. He swore an oath to the United States of America

He broke the oath. You can't boil it down any further than that. There is no honor in failing to live up to an oath you swore. It would be different if the Union had done something illegal that would allow him to break his oath in good conscience. However, nothing was done by Lincoln and the Union that could have caused Lee to quit the United States Army because of any illegal or unethical orders.

By all accounts Robert E. Lee was a decent man. He was an intelligent man. He was also a traitor to the United States of America.

[hlthe2b]

44. He was honorable to his time...

You and I can both question his decision nearly 150 years later, but that is simplistic and totally not the point. We are nearly all the product of treason, under your strict definition--since our founding fathers clearly chose to denounce their pledge to the crown. :shrug:

The best judge of his legacy and honor are his contemporaries (and one time enemies). Those he opposed on the battlefield treated him with respect and honor. Even more telling, they fought against a small minority who wished to imprison him or try him for his role in the confederacy.

[Bluerthanblue]

48. I believe that for him

to agree to fight for a cause that his heart was NOT in, simply because he "took an oath"- especially in a position of leadership would have been VERY dis-honest.
I'm not so sure that there weren't clear grounds for him to believe he WAS up-holding the 'constitution'- when he turned down a Union military commission. One that had to do with states rights.- While slavery was an abhorrent practice, it was one which was widely accepted in the US even in the Northern states when the Constitution, was written.
While I do not share his perspective- especially his perspective in regards to slavery, I cannot fault him for his honesty-. To have half-hartedly, or even falsely 'honored' an oath would (in my opinion) have been the utmost dishonorable action.

[RoyGBiv]

52. What you say is true, but ...

This sort of criticism of Lee, or anyone actually, is less than convincing.

The US was founded on a treasonous act. Soldiers who disobeyed orders to deploy because they have a moral opposition to war are also committing treason. "Treason" has no inherent moral component.

[Yupster]

57. His state left the union

by popular vote of its people.

Once that happened, Virginia was no longer a state and therefore Lee was no longer an American citizen.

How can he be a traitor to a country that isn't is?

BTW - Lee was indicted for treason and never tried. He didn't want a trial. President Davis was also indicted for treason, and he did demand a trial to prove his innocence.

He had a high-powered group of northern lawyers well funded by rich abolitionists Cornelius Vanderbilt and Horace Greeley. His defense was simple.

Secession was Constitutional and therefore the northern invasion of the Confederacy was illegal. If he was a citizen of the Confederacy, how could he be a traitor to the USA, and oh by the way, would the union army kindly leave so he could get back to rebuilding his young nation.

Since secession wasn't mentioned one way or the other in the Constitution, and was certainly claimed as right in some of the original state Constitutional debates at the USA's founding, no one could predict how the Supreme Court would eventually rule on the issue after Davis' trial.

The cowardly US solution was to never try Davis for treason. The government just kept pushing back the trial date until it was postponed indefinately while Davis was eventually bailed out of jail by Vanderbilt and Greeley though he remained indicted.

Davis argued for the rest of his life for his right to trial, but why bother convicting him if people will declare him guilty without trial 150 years later.

[BeachBuckeye]

63. Now I understand

Now I understand why I still hear the cry of "The South will rise again"! Now I know why I see the Confederate flag flown all over the place in the South. Now I know why when I visit Charleston that I hear the old timers tell me that the "Northerners have it all wrong. We treated our slaves real good. They liked being owned by us." Now I know why. States Rights my ass. Other than being able to own other human beings and work them to death what "States Rights" did the South want that they didn't have?

Time to face the music folks. Leaving the Union for the reasons the South did so was NOT an honorable thing to do. Time to face the fact that the "War of Northern Agression" is a fallacy.

There are places in the South where rampant racism STILL exists today. I'm not saying it doesn't exist elsewhere but it still flourishes in some Southern areas. When the "DixieCrats" switched to being Republicans it wasn't for any other reason than to protect the racism they so cherished. Strom Thurmond was a racist son-of-a-bitch along with many of his backers.

I constantly see the bumper stickers that say "American by birth, Southerner by choice". They ain't talkin' bout the weather when they have one of those on their pick-em-up trucks.

Those who live in the South who are realists concerning its history and who also abhor racism will not be offended by what I've said here. They know full well what I'm talking about.

Those who still revere the "Stars and Bars" and what it stands for can.......well, I'll be a gentleman and not finish the statement but it has to do with the sun not shining.

[raccoon]

80. Well, at least you did concede that rampant racism does exist elsewhere.

In the US, that is.

"There are places in the South where rampant racism STILL exists today. I'm not saying it doesn't exist elsewhere but it still flourishes in some Southern areas. "

[RoyGBiv]

49. I've avoided saying this ...

And, I wouldn't say it now except for the context.

Lincoln and other politicians of the day used phrasing very much like this in the midst of the Civil War. It's a typical rallying cry when support for that war has waned. Lincoln was certainly more artful in the way he said this, and he clearly had a greater degree of respect for those doing the fighting and dying that Bush will ever have. The circumstances were also quite different. The Civil War was more clearly a war with defined "sides" and a clearer goal. A war on terrorism is nothing but a buzzphrase really, primarily because terrorism is a tactic, and no one has ever come close to defeating this particular tactic. (And I very much doubt it can be defeated in the terms most typically associated with defeat in the context of war.) But, similarities also exist. Some questioned, far into the war, if attempting to force a section of a country to remain when it so clearly desired not to do so was worth all the blood and sacrifice. And some who had felt that way in the beginning were by the end themselves espousing the philosophy that to quit after so much blood and sacrifice was a dishonor to those who had died.

The "better way" you seek is not to start wars in the first place. After they have been started, after the sacrifices have begun, the "better way" has been lost.

[Chemical Bill]

18. I sometimes wonder...

if my Revolutionary War ancestors died dishonorably.

Bill

[Hubert Flottz]

21. According to Gonzales and Addington it looks like they did!

If they fought for the Constitution of the USA and died for it!

[RB TexLa]

20. Funny, they honer both sided of the Civil War but not our side

of the Seven Years War. At least Louisiana hasn't caved in, it's not a state holiday in La.

[jpevahouse]

39. Decoration Day / Memorial Day

Memorial Day began right after the Civil War in the North to remember Union dead. It was not a national holiday but an observance by the Civil War Veterans organizaton, the GAR. The South continued to observe Decoration Day which before the war had been a day for remembering dead relatives by cleaning and placing flowers on their graves. Most of the South today still observes Decoration Day as do my relatives still living in Tennessee. The divergence of traditions did not grow out of anyomosity but regional changes which evolved after the Civil War.

[RB TexLa]

41. La doesn't have th decoration day crap

You have to remember we actually have a Linclon, Grant and Union parish. It's over the Seven Years war or whatever they call it in American history.

[Mr.Green93]

22. Why are you stirring up this?

The war's over.

[Bluerthanblue]

25. because the reasoning being played

by many is that to end this madness short of the 'goal' dis-honors those who died.

I think that there is a question to be raised to those who claim that to be the case- and I chose to frame it around the Civil War-

What IS winning?- what is 'honor'- what would those who died really desire?

I'm probably not articulating this well at all- but I'm trying.

[datasuspect]

23. don't know about that

but my loyalist ancestors died honorably.

god save the queen!

[raccoon]

79. Exactly, and if the British had won, which they probably would have

if the American colonies hadn't had help, George Washington and anyone who found for the colonists' side would be considered a traitor.

And Benedict Arnold would be considered a hero.

[Thirtieschild]

28. Ancestors fought on both sides

One, from Ohio, suffered PTSD when his unit was cut to pieces and he "suffered a pain across the bowels while pursued by the rebels" in Louisiana. Another, a sergeant from Georgia, died from dysentery at Richmond KY within a few months of enlisting. He was a wagon maker, didn't own slaves, guess he fought for what he considered his country. He left a widow and a five-year-old daughter, my mother's grandmother. A third, also from Georgia, was a chaplain with the Rebels.

Think the Civil War, at least for the South, was fought as wars have apprently always been - and still are - by the sons of the laborers and hard-scrabble farmers. For the most part the men who did not own slaves were the ones on the front lines. Don't know much about the sons of the rich (which means the sons of the slaveowners) since I don't have any rich slaveowning ancestors, but wonder if they joined the 1860s equivalent of the National Guard. BTW, these observations haven't come from a history book, which might not agree with me, but from reading pension applications, etc. while pursuing genealogy.

[Bridget Burke]

73. Confederates who owned more than 20 slaves were exempted

From the draft. And a prosperous Northerner could pay another man to take his place in the Army. Most of the soldiers just did what they could to survive & I don't blame them.

(I had a few ancestors over here back then, but I don't know if they fought--or for whom.)

[SPKrazy]

29. No! They Were Massacred By Union Soldiers in

the Huntsville Massacre in Arkansas

war crime I would believe

[Redstone]

30. Hard to say. After reading the Dee Brown book (I forget the title),

it's hard to say for certain that they did (even though none were my ancestors).

times were different then.

Redstone

[Aristus]

34. My ancestors fought for the Confederacy. AlI I can say is

that they fought and died for a cause unworthy of their bravery.

'Nuff said. I never have and never will fly the treason-and-slavery flag.

[murdoch]

35. Did Southern workers support "The South"?

Most of the most left-wing people I know are white Southerners who have come up North (which they'd have to, or I wouldn't know them living where I live).

Do you know how many referendums there were in the South over whether to secede? None (including Tennessee, which rejected secession in a February 1861 referendum, but has a convoluted history with regards to this). The Civil War simply was not supported by the majority of white southerners, who were workers. If the average white Southern worker had such a natural antipathy to blacks, why were laws against miscegenation so strictly enforced? Even the southern elite like Strom Thurmond didn't keep from having sexual relationships with black women, although those not in the idle class like him wouldn't worry as much about settling down in an interracial marriage. So the government had to keep that from happening, and more importantly created a mythology about how all Southern whites supported the Civil War, while history shows that the disenchantment with war by white workers in the South makes the draft riots in New York City look like nothing.

The DAR types are usually the so-called "pillars of the community". Support for the Civil War and enforcing segregation was always strongest among the southern elite.

[tenshi816]

61. The DAR has nothing to do with the Civil War.

I'm in the DAR. You're showing your ignorance here.

[jpevahouse]

36. Sergt William Reilly, Gant's 9th CS Cavalary

My relatives (including my great, great grandfather, name above) fought for the Confederate States. I have lived in the North many years and have a strong interest in researching the history of the Union soldiers from our small town. There may have been a time when politics might have influenced my feelings about my ancestors but from what I know about them they were simply people of their time and place, no more, no less.
There was in many cases much respect between the old veterans, Union and Rebel. My view is if the old veterans who fought the battles could in the end respect each other as human beings bound together by a common experience then who am I to stir up the ashes of the conflict they put to rest. As far as I'm concerned we today could learn a lesson from their old fashioned, simple sense of dignity.

[kentuck]

37. Slavery, much like democracy in Iraq, was the third choice for war...

That had raged on for a couple of years, if my memory serves me correct, before the Emancipation Proclamation. We only know what we read in our history books and what our teachers taught us but I have a difficult time finding any great Americans that were calling for a cease fire or offering to talk peace rather than see our brothers and cousins killed. Does anyone find that unusual? Just asking...DU has made me very skeptical of even our most accepted history lessons...

[Hippo_Tron]

60. The election of 1864 might provide some answers

Lincoln nearly lost his re-election to the democratic nominee General McClellan. McClellan ran on a peace platform and most union citizens were sick and tired of the war. Lincoln was only re-elected after the tide turned in the Union's favor when they took Atlanta. I think that there's even a quote somewhere of Lincoln telling the general that took Atlanta that he just got him re-elected.

[alcibiades_mystery]

40. Soldiers fight for an ideal?

Huh.

[UTUSN]

45. Yip n/t

[Fleshdancer]

46. I have ancestors who fought on both sides of the Civil War

When countrymen fight one another, is it ever honorable? I don't know the answer to that question. I probably never will.

[aikoaiko]

47. Our understanding of the people who lived and died then is complicated

and it always will be.



http://www.slrc-csa.org/site/news/2004/03-02-04-news.php

eta: I can't speak to the site from which this came from, but its an interesting story.

[RoyGBiv]

50. My ancestors died for a bad cause ...

Whether they died honorably is up to individual interpretation.

By most accounts, one certainly lived dishonorably, but his dishonor is the reason I and a whole string of people before me ever existed, so it's hard to say. (He enlisted in the Union army, deserted, enlisted in the Confederate army, deserted, then squatted on a Confederate soldier's land, farmed it, left when he was discovered and killed a man in the process, then ended up in OK, illegally I might add.)

[JVS]

51. I'm proud not to have had any confederate ancestors.

Fucking traitor bastards!

[tenshi816]

65. Let's see, you hate southerners

and you hate the British (as evidenced by your "fuck the British" on another thread). You're getting really close up and personal in your attacks on me and mine.

Is there anyone you actually like?

Edit: typo

[JVS]

68. The Quebecois and Icelanders are ok.

By the way, I said "Fuck Britain"

And since when is hating confederates the same as hating southerners in general? I am perfectly well disposed toward any southerners who are not traitorous bastards (i.e confederates or confederate sympathizers)

[tenshi816]

71. What's the difference

in saying "fuck Britain" and "fuck the British"?

Also, my ancestors were unwillingly drafted to fight for the Confederacy. Does that make them traitorous bastards?

[pookieblue]

53. my dad's side

was from up north. But I think they came over later, after the Civil War.

My mother's side, were/are Comanche. So no one fought in the Civil War. But they had their own battles/wars they fought.



However, I see nothing wrong with remember your loved ones and family members. no matter what war they fought or whose side they were on.

[noshenanigans]

56. My southern family...

The only men I know of that were of "fightin' age" were deserters. So... yay?

[Chomskyite]

58. Very hard question

I think in their minds they certainly did. The definition of honor, however, changes with the decades. As a descendant of at least three Confederates and a person obsessed with Civil War history, I must admit I simply see their service (which they all survived) as honorable where it concerns preservation of their homes and communities, but also as contributions to the cause of white supremacy--surely dishonorable. So the word honor exposes the quandary we face in any action we take on behalf of a government: we're endorsing the best and the worst parts of that government, unless we take further action to reform it.

[Raine]

59. I had some fight on both sides

the ones on the Southern side paid a big price for being on the wrong side cause they lost it all (home, property, way of life, etc.) I guess that was some form of justice since for years they lived off the blood, sweat and tears of others.

[JCMach1]

62. Mine too-- both sides...

[slackmaster]

64. I have no Confederate ancestors

Most of my ancestors were Mennonites, who eschewed war on moral and spiritual grounds.

None of my ancestors ever owned a slave either.

[theboss]

66. Favorite story from the Civil War

A captured Confederate was asked by a Union soldier if he has slaves.
"No."
Then he is asked why he was fighting the Union. His response:
"Y'all are here."

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

85. Yes, you'd think that more people from the South (Repubs) would understand

that the Arabic version of "because y'all are here" is quite sufficient reason for many Iraqis to fight vigorously against the U.S. occupation, whether they buy into the war rationale sold by shrubco or not.

[Coventina]

67. I had great-great grandfathers that fought on both sides. (Both survived)

My great-grandfather married a Union girl (after the war). From what I understand, the in-laws had some tense moments.

I'm proud that my great-grandfather listened to his heart, and married the woman he loved, rather than listening to his father's bigotry.

on edit: clarity

[LittleClarkie]

69. North married South

Dad was Virginia and my mom was Wisconsin. Neither liked it where they were from. We moved about three times as they fought over where they were going to live. I was always the new kid. If I'm alittle twisted, that's why.

And the connections I know about in the Civil War:

1. We have one letter written by the wife of a Confederate soldier, talking about how she went behind enemy lines to find her husband, and a very nice Union officer made her go back.

So one would think there is also a Confederate soldier in the fam as well.

2. One doll that was used to smuggle messages across enemy (Union) lines.

3. A great, great, great (not sure how many greats) grandmother who was adopted into a family who owned the warehouse that was eventually turned into a not very nice prison for Union soldiers called Libby prison.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

77. Like most soldiers they just died as cannon-fodder.

I doubt that many of them died blessing Jeff Davis or singing Dixie. Anymore, than the current crop is singing "God Bless of America", or wishing they had one more chance to vote for Boobya.

[NC_Nurse]

83. Sad and stupid

that's war for ya...

Relatives of mine died in the civil war here, and the civil war in Spain. I'm not sure that any of them really knew what they were fighting for...beyond what they were told. :-(