The Hayden confirmation has really torn it for me.

[chicofaraby]

I really didn't expect him to be rejected by the GOP Senate, but for the Democrats to just fold like this... I'm done with them.

There is nothing for us left-wingers in the Democratic party. Until the Dems actually start representing the interests of working Americans, I just see no reason to support them. They have an opportunity to win with a turn to the left, but they can't muster the backbone to do it. They keep trying to take Republican voters instead of motivating the HUGE block of potential voters that are currently left out on the left wing. I'm going to channel my political energies into an actual American left wing, assuming I can find one. The CPUSA is handicapped by their name, but at least they actually support workers.

I fully expect to get flamed for this, but how can one make a case that the Democrats are better than the GOP when they continue to vote for cretins like Hayden and stupid funding for George Bush's murder for profit scheme in Iraq? Simply being less extreme right wing is not good enough. I want to vote for people, not against people. I was really hoping that the Dems would seize the oppotunity to lead that George Bush has handed them. Instead, they have proven themselves craven.

I'm done.

[Terran1212]

1. I agree we need to build alternatives, left parties, worker parties

But there are some dems we can be proud of, I feel.

Take a look at Denis Kucinich or Barbara Lee or John Lewis. All great fighters.

[skipos]

2. Great time to bailout, right before 06. Not me. I don't give up

so easily.

[Terran1212]

6. We're not giving up

Giving up is continuing to support people who continue to support the crazies in office, imo.

And I understand the whole "if you vote Left you won't win" rhetoric. I live in one of the most right-wing districts in the nation (georgia's 6th). I PRAY for a centrist to come to power in my district ('ol Newty is from here).

But in areas of the country that are much more liberal -- well, they need to throw out the center-right dems and put in real liberal dems who stand for their values and stop dealing with these corporate crooks. Let the centrists alone in the red states.

[chicofaraby]

9. Agreed. I'm not giving up.

I'm giving up on the Democrats ever supporting American workers. I'm not giving up on the American left. In fact, I plan to get MORE active for the left wing.

[skipos]

25. Uhm, isn't that what primaries are for?

To let democrats chose who represents them? The blue state of CT has the chance to let Ned Lamont represent them instead of Lieberman. Who are you going to blame if Lieberman wins? Lieberman? Diebold? Money (Lamont has plenty of that)? If you are going to blame anyone, blame average democratic voters who are not as progressive as DUers would like to believe.

[Terran1212]

28. Only in theory

Money and media control the democrats. People can't say, "I voted for the person who best represents me" anymore in this country.

[skipos]

34. No, YOU can't say "I voted for the person who best represents me"

I have voted for plenty of people who have represented me pretty well. I know many Americans feel that way too. While there are plenty of people who disapprove of their representatives, there are plenty who do. Nelson of Nebraska has one of the highest approval ratings of anyone in the senate. Higher than Feingold or Boxer. Why is that?

1. Diebold
2. Money
3. Media
or
4. Because he does a good job of representing your average voter in Nebraska

[TahitiNut]

21. Ubetcha. Us chickens should vote for the farmer with the sharpest axe!

:puke:

[ananda]

3. Umm

Why this one, and not Roberts and Alito and the many other crazee rw reeps Bush has anointed?

I say anointed because confirmation seems just a formality to appease the sleepwalking masses....

[chicofaraby]

5. Why this one?

Because it seemed like such an EASY "no." There were several legitimate reasons for a "no."

If they won't take a stand here, they won't take a stand.

[Clovis Sangrail]

24. Hayden will wield far more power than Alito

or anybody else on the bench

As head of the CIA his interpretation of the law and views on breaking it will determine what programs go forward at the CIA. A supreme justice does rule on law... but that's after the fact.
Hayden has made it clear that he neither understands the law nor feels compelled to follow it.

When Hayden instituted the program to monitor all of our phone calls who had more power?

I consider a vote for Hayden to be the most treasonous act our senators could have committed.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

4. .

:nopity:

[acmejack]

12. .!.

[sellitman]

7. I understand the anger but...

You have to look at accomplishing things in small increments sometimes. First get the Neo-cons replaced by Democrats, then push the spineless Dems we have out with better Dems, but you have to start some place. I am working to get Ned Lamaont on the ticket for 2006 replacing the infamous Dino Lieberman in my state. Then comes worring about the 2008 election. Everything in good time.

[BlueManDude]

14. Vigorously opposing this guy was a no brainer. n/t

[Warpy]

8. My DINO Senator lost my vote when he called for cloture on Alito's

nomination. You cross that choice line with me, and it's all over, and Alito is a nightmare for women. My DINO Senator has simply stated that my vote doesn't count to him, so he's lost it. I will vote Green.

Oh, he'll be returned to stab me in the back for another 6 years no matter what I do, but my vote for the Green candidate will be added to others and send a message that we are out here, we are growing, and that his spineless enabling of the worst president this country has ever endured has been noted and will not be tolerated forever.

So no flames from me. If you love what your government has been doing, then by all means vote for incumbents. If you are as disgusted as I am, then vote the bastards OUT.

[grytpype]

10. Go vote for Nader.

[chicofaraby]

11. I already did.

Thanks for the advice.

[grasswire]

40. then you're part of the problem we currently have

The task of lefties/liberals/progressives this year is to take control of the Congress by any means necessary, even if it means retaining DINOs. If we don't get subpoena power this year, we don't win in 2008. It's that simple.

Don't be duped by Nader-like appeals. Focus. Focus. We MUST TAKE CONGRESS back and can't afford to punish DINOs now.

[lonestarnot]

13. Not a surrender if you never owned it in the first place. See ya!

[larrysh]

15. Time to Bail!!!!

A viable 3rd party is desperately needed to make the current crop of Dems in charge sit up and take notice! Maybe if we can vote a few of them OUT, the rest will come to their senses.

[derby378]

16. I'm gonna say it again: GET OFF YOUR ASS.

If you don't like what Democrats in power are doing, I've come up with a handy-dandy little solution that I've stuck in my Journal for all to see:

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/derby378/11

Peace, love, yada-yada-yada...

[chicofaraby]

17. I agree to a point.

I fully intend to work harder.

I just won't work for the Democrats.

[derby378]

19. At this point, a vote for "anyone-but-Dems" is a vote for the GOP

I wish to God that the two major parties in Congress were the Democrats and the Greens. Just imagine the debates we could have on environmental issues such as global warming, air pollution, etc. But that's not going to happen for a long time, if at all. We're stuck with the Republicans - and not even the Lincoln/Roosevelt Republicans, either.

So please think carefully before you commit. If you think a third party can displace the Republicans, best of luck to you. I won't deny that too many Dems need a good "ass-kicking" (pun intended). But the Democratic Party itself must endure.

P.S. - I'm officially a precinct chair now, and if I can achieve delegate status at the State Convention in Texas next month, I intend to propose some radical changes to the state party platform. Let's just say I think George Lakoff rocks.

[chicofaraby]

22. While that's a damn shame,

it's still no reason to vote for the Democrats.

It comes down to this. I can bang my head into the wall of the Democratic Party or I can bang my head into the wall of genuine change. I choose to fight for real change.

Good luck changing the Democrats. Frankly, I hope you can do it, but my opinion is that they have "Whig" written all over them.

[nasher]

29. So you will stop posting on DEMOCRATICunderground.com pretty soon

right? Let me know when your last post will be, I'll come say goodbye! :hi:

[chicofaraby]

36. Uhh, no. Why?

Is this a Democrat only site?

[nasher]

38. I don't make the rules here, but here is one of them:

"Members are expected to be generally supportive of progressive ideals, and to support Democratic candidates for political office."

You don't support democratic candidates. I just figured that someone who doesn't support democrats wouldn't waste time at a place called democratic underground. :shrug:

[derby378]

37. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[FreeStateDemocrat]

18. I share the same reaction, tremendous disappointment at the lack of

any leadership in the Democratic Party. The Republican Party is smart enough to support their perverted base while the Democratic Party exploits to be elected and then ignores the working class heart of our party. I will set on my ass and wallet in the future until I see the Democratic Party pulling out all the stops to at least advance a mini mun wage increase, that is the absolute least they can do to show some spine. I fully expect to see a failure to win either house because the party can not offer any vision to attract voters with the current leadership in congress. Pelosi and Reid have been total busts and need to be replaced before the this election cycle. The repukes run over us without any opposition whenever they want it makes the Democratic Party appear weak disorganized,ineffective and incapable of governing to the American electorate.

[jobycom]

20. Yeah, cause Bush's next choice would have been someone we like

[chicofaraby]

23. Is that the point?

[Nashyra]

32. I am not giving up

Go find a Democratic candidate that you respect and work for them. or don't. I take issue with the fact that the Democratic party does not stand for the working person, well my husband works hard, I work hard and my parents work hard and I think the our future rests with the Democratic party.

The Capital gains tax cut benefits my family but I wrote, called and emailed my representatives to let it expire to no avail. If we want a third party get your butts out there and start from the bottom by getting progressives elected to LOCAL races first. To completely diss the Democratic party puts you in the GOP camp, all it does is add to their power base. Get those independents out and on the Ballot for every single non-partisan and local race out there.

Many who complain about the Democrats in power have never thrown their hat in the ring for any local races, an Independent party needs to establish a base, a winning record etc and it does not happen overnight nor does it start by going for top races. You would be surprised how moderate Republicans appreciate a hardworking fair Democrat elected official as well as how appreciative Moderate Democrats appreciate a hard work working Republican that does not toe the line with the Republican party. That is my interpretation of Independent. Independent from Party politics and governing for the masses. Without a Democratic win in one house or the other more and more of your civil liberties are out the door. You are more effective working to change from the inside than complaining from the outside.

[goddess40]

26. What to do

Write your legislators who voted for this moron. My husband sent off a letter to Sen. Kohl that was polite but expressed his grave disappointment with Kohl's vote. The last time a Kohl staff member called our house looking for help with Kohl's campaign they got a firm "no" because of some of Kohl's previous votes.

[Philosoraptor]

27. This whole system needs thrown out & done over right.

This monstrous so called system that we all go by, who the hell came up with it, lizard people from the planet stupid?

[kenny blankenship]

30. Say they somehow manage to block Hayden, what then?

Think Bush would put up anyone better? I don't. Bush follows unacceptable nominees with even worse ones, it's a pattern of his vindictive character. (This forces Democrats to try to block multiple successive nominations by which they risk looking destructive and childish).
It's moot question though, since it's astronomically unlikely that they could stop Hayden. They'd need help from the Republicans, which they've seen they won't get.

I think they're trying to look beyond the present disastrous situation--they're forced to really since they have no power. Public opinion is trending against Republicans, so they're hoping that some power will be returned to Democrats after November. But meanwhile they don't want to do anything before then that would allow Bush and the GOP to paint them as an obstructive force that must be dynamited away so America can go forward into the (Fascist) future. We've all heard predictions from pundits and pollsters of Democratic victories "if the elections were held right now". Elected Dems tend to want to hold this exact pattern if possible until then becomes now. A filibuster effort contains additional great risks for violent divisions within our party in its currently weakened position. When Democrats hold one house of Congress again it may be possible to become more aggressive. For now though, any individual Senator has a lot more to fear from Bush and the GOP, and by the same token, more chances of getting some legislative payoff from horsetrading with Bush and the GOP than any coalition of filibustering Democrats. The bottom line is that until Bush is gone, the Director of CIA is going to be one of Bush's criminal co-conspirator henchmen (he always kicks his accomplices upstairs to reward them and keep them from talking) It's really only a question of which one?
Since there's nothing to gain from fighting the appointment, and plenty of risk in stirring up a confirmation battle that we would just lose anyway, it probably seems more prudent to Senate Democrats to punt on Hayden. Unless they have White House dreams and then they'll feel the need to play to the base of the Democratic party, which wants Hayden in jail where he should be.

[leftofthedial]

31. it's not about backbone

it's about $$$

they are bought-and-paid-for whores, working for corporations (and the corproation's wealthy owners), not for the electorate.

[Stephanie]

33. Where is a list of the Dems who voted for him?

Thanks!

[pretzel4gore]

35. is it a class thing?

naturally, the 'dems' will deny any class consideration in their solidarity with the busheviks, but why are they maintaining solidarity if the politics doesn't jive? Your post is predicated on the notion that there are two opposing viewpoints regards the future path of western society, especially the US, but that is plainly wrong. Nothing explains the destruction of the foundations of the healthy society (for all its flaws) that existed up til nixon's time, when the rightwing purposely set out to radically restructure society - the 'left' has become less a voice crying in the wilderness then a tooth ache to be offset with painkillers. And it appears the ghastly schemeing of the gopigs has worked at least in part by threatening to expose the 'ruling elite' to revolutionary rage. In other words, a strange pattern of blackmail has been the rightwing's main ace in the hole-if the 'leftwing' members of the elite tried too hard to stop the ongoing rewriting of the rules, and rollbacks of the profiting, etc, then the busheviks would expodse the fact that, for example, videos of planes crashing into the WTC were prepared long before sept 11th, in fact all the talking points had been prepared and ...blah blah blah! we're not talking MIHOP, we're talking depravity on the scale of enron, applied to the entire nation, the entire world.
We have to shootem all, and let god sortem out :)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=6017&forum=DCForumID38

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2002/dec2002/gore-d21.shtml
snip>
In other words, a second Gore-Bush contest would inevitably raise the overtly anti-democratic manner in which the 2000 election crisis was resolved, and bring into question the legitimacy of the Bush administration. In his desire to avoid such issues, Gore reflects a preoccupation of the entire ruling elite and both political parties.
<snip

[peacetalksforall]

39. You are right, Chico. They come up with as many excuses and

rationalizations for their vote as easily as junior high school students do when they have skipped an assignment.

They are a grand disappointment.

The bow down repeatedly.

This country needs five political parties.

[derby378]

41. Do we really want a coalition government in America?

Study the examples in France, Israel, Italy, etc. I'm not making any judgment calls on this particular angle, but think carefully.

[peacetalksforall]

42. I've thought carefully about the assistance the Democrats have lent

to the destruction of this country by some in our leadership in the last 10-15 years.

I would like to see the fundamentalist, believe=anything-Rush/Pat-say, never thinking crown who will jump over the cliff with George Bush be isolated.

I would like to see the CEO-country club members of the Republican Party isolated.

I would like to see believers of humanity in this country and all the others along with believers in our earth and space together.

Do we continue to let people we can't believe in keep being Republicans with our destiny?

Even with the voice recorded with call-in programs and the internet - they still don't get the message. A person like myself is not represented except by a few who are ridiculed.

[Moderator]

43. Locking....

Constructive criticism of Democrats or the Democratic Party is permitted. When doing so, please keep in mind that most of our members come to this website in order to get a break from the constant attacks in the media against our candidates and our values. Highly inflammatory or divisive attacks that echo the tone or substance of our political opponents are not welcome here.

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