Rant: I think my RW friend is right, none of it matters anymore.

[Ioo]

My right wing friend (He is an old school Republican, He know they are dead, but he just can not at all ever support a “Tax and spend liberal” ever at all) and I car pool together (Washington DC area (Arlington)). We are great friends. So we were talking on the way home about Bush wiretapping people.

Like most, he had some talking points, one was “Well I am not sure if you know this, but for some reason the lib judges were making a huge amount of modifications to his requests”, and you know what, I did know that.

“First, why lib judges, they were all appointed by Rehnquist” I said
“How do you know that?”
“Because that is what FISA says, all judges are picked from the fed judges by the chief justice of the SC” I replied, “and face it, if Rehnquist appointed them, you know they tow the line”
I went on to say, “And I am not seeing an issue with them making changes, that is there JOB, and that does in fact refute your other talking point ‘If they are just a Rubber Stamp, then why do you care’, and aren’t you glad to here that someone is looking at what this guy is doing? “

So we went on, and he basically said, “Well if he has to break the law…”

Anyway… when it was all on the floor, his comment hit me where it hurts…

“Marq, so what if Bush broke the law, they will never impeach him, no matter how low they set the bar with Clinton. I can do nothing about that, you can’t. The politicians in Washington ARE SO FAR REMOVED from the people that they don’t give a shit about what you think, Republican or Democrat. All of them are paid for, and spoken for. No matter how many people you gather in Washington, or anywhere, they do not care, because YOU and ME do not elect them, it is the uneducated dolfs that do. Face it, it really does not matter what Bush did, all of them will do what ever it takes to keep the job, and YOUR trust or MINE has nothing to do with it.”

And you know what, he is right. I have 2 Democratic Senators, Byrd and Rockefeller, great senators for the most part, but I say this about ALL of them. Do I think that they give a crap about me? NO. Do I think that they would, if given a choose, do what is RIGHT by the people if it ment hurting their re-election, NO.

I have a shill for a congress person, Caprico(sp), I think that she would club constituent orphans over the head if Bush said to. Do I think that she would do what is RIGHT by America, NO WAY.

I think he is right, R or D, they are bought and paid for, and I know that we Americans do not hold the receipt. They are owned by mega-corporate fat cats, and the amount of cash we are talking means they are PAID FOR.

So, I think he is right, I really am starting to think that there is nothing we can do, because it is falling on deft ears…

My only thought, public funded elections?

[bluerum]

1. Don't let your repuke friend distract you. Keep up the good fight.

[Ioo]

3. But what is the point of the fight, if you can not win?

[liveoaktx]

5. On principle, for self-respect, because it's better to stand up

for what you know is right, and lawful, etc instead of lying down and letting the juggernaut roll over you.

I understand how you feel. I have two Republican Senators, Cornyn and Hutchison, and I have NO representation from either one. Nonetheless, I can't stop attempting to change the equation.

[LittleClarkie]

9. 'Cause we got... high hopes... we got...high hopes. We got high apple pie

in the SKY hopes.

Oops there goes another rubber tree plant.

[FreedomAngel82]

11. So you're going to go down fighting

And no they aren't all the same. Look at Reid and Boxer for example. Look at various members in the House like Kucinich. God bless him. He never gives up. So you're going to let some fascists assholes take away everything you hold dear? As a girl I had a journal/diary and would be up in arms if my brother or anyone else read it. Same way with wiretapping. So instead of bitching and whining get off your ass and do SOMETHING whether it's bitching to your rep or joining a campaign. Or donate to someone who needs help. I'll give you a start. Check out Terry Stulce at http://www.terry2006.com

[Ioo]

16. You are right, Is this what our nation is down to, 10 people reping us ALL

I mean, that is SAD!

Sorry guys, I fight my ass off, but I am growing tired, and see no victory at the end of the fight.

[More Than A Feeling]

19. The end is too far off to see.

But it was the same for Susan B. Anthony and Elizabeth Cady Stanton. Neither of them ever got a chance to cast a vote, but they fought on.

[Ioo]

23. Good Point, thanks

[bluerum]

20. Winning is not the point. Standing for you ideals is the point.

Once they convince people that their voices do not matter (like * is trying to) and create a despondent and pliable underclass, we will live in fear and desperation unwilling and unable to challenge the social, economic, constitutional and environmental insanity that they will impose.

Don't lose hope Ioo. * is wrong. The rotten foundation that his preznitdensey is built on will be his downfall.

[babylonsister]

27. Well said, bluerum, and welcome to DU! nt

[bluerum]

67. Thanks bsister! Glad to be here.

[peacebird]

43. Bluerum - welcome! I have enjoyed your posts and agree

we have to stand up and make the point again and again that we are a land based on LAW and even the president is NOT above the LAW.

We must be strong in our convictions and contact our Reps in congress to let them KNOW what we think. We MUST participate in democracy - it is NOT a spectator sport.

I know that right now it appears futile, but nonetheless we must persevere.

Our very democracy is at stake.

[bluerum]

66. Thanks peacebird. Sometimes its like doin you know what into

the wind - but you have to stand your ground speak you piece.

I think the PNAC people and the neocons, in trying to twist the country to their own visions will cause a backlash against themselves and that will for the most part neutralize them. What we have to worry about is the corporate thieves who will buy the entire political process, including the SCOTUS unless we all participate in the democracy by making our voices heard.

[ddeclue]

47. Must keep fighting... the Bushies only hope is that we give up.

We have him nailed on this one. It's a felony. He confessed. Case closed.

If we give up, they'll sweep it under the rug.

If we never let it go, eventually they will have to deal with it.

If you doubt me, just look at the situation with ANWR getting defeated last week and with Bush having to cave (at least significantly) to McCain over torture and look at the Patriot Act getting all jammed up in Congress last week.

Believe me, there are plenty of influential Republicans and Conservatives who are mad as hell over this from Arlen Specter, to Lindsay Graham, to Bob Barr, to conservative columnist George Will. Barron's published an impeachment piece, so has Newsweek. This isn't going to go away unless we give in to despair and let it.

Don't give up the fight.

Doug D.

[Lindacooks]

53. That was one of the responses to Watergate too.

We just have to keep fighting. I don't think it's true that we can't win. We have to keep the pressure on, we have to elect Democratic candidates, and we have to keep watching and calling out these bastards. I still have faith in this country. I think there are still enough people who are furious about this that we can make a difference. When we give up, the country is dead.

[DistressedAmerican]

56. HONESTY

[Al-CIAda]

73. "When all is lost, nothing matters but the fall". -nt

[babylonsister]

2. I just can't force myself to be that cynical, even if true.

I HAVE to believe there is still some love of country, and desire to do what's right, out there.

[Ioo]

6. I think it is out there, but I think NO ONE IS GOING TO HERE THEM!

[FreedomAngel82]

15. Exactly

That's the whole thing. I do believe people are pissed but the "news" wants you to think other wise. They're all Bush's mouth piece so why would they tell you if the country is pissed? Look at the poll from MSNBC recently! They didn't even air it on their network! Why? It didn't favor Bush.

[More Than A Feeling]

4. If you don't make them hear you, then of course they won't listen

Your friend's argument is a reason to fight harder, not to give up.

[Atman]

7. Same ol' same ol'. Your friend is rationalizing his own terrible choices

I have a republican brother, and he has always done the same thing...when they lose the argument or are faced with incontrovertable facts, they always -- always -- change the discussion to "but they all do it, there's nothing we can do." That is what makes republicans corrupt. Their legal barometer is stuck on "They All Do It" and therefore "it" is somehow okay. They will never be changed. They don't want to change, because if they did, they'd be forced to give back all they stuff they've purchased with their blood money. It is easier on the conscience to deny reality.

[More Than A Feeling]

10. *thunderous huzzahs from the audience*

Amen, testify! :toast:

[NuttyFluffers]

65. this is why sloth is a deadly sin. it allows stinkin' thinkin'.

it is easier to be evil if you can lie to yourself that you had no other choice. and what is the best way to lie to yourself that you had no other choice? by invalidating all the other choices, by either apathy, escapism, delusion, or blind acquiescence; all facets of the same failure of the human spirit, sloth.

people need to be reminded to stand and look at themselves. they must claim their actions. if they choose evil, choose it, openly, proudly, defiantly. let them understand they have become the enemy. let there be no pretense about their self-worth and their opinion of other's worth. otherwise they join the tired cliche that is personified in the archetype of the 'good german,' "i was only just taking orders..."

[hopeisaplace]

74. omg, bingo

well put

[shenmue]

8. I don't think so

I never give up.

[Ioo]

12. But lets sat Dems take it all this year... Will anything change?

I do not think it will, because again, they do not owe there job to us...

PUBLIC FUNDED ELECTIONS

[papau]

13. public funded elections is a goal - but getting a clean count is more

important.

[madeline_con]

14. Well, if a Dem wants to "use" me to get into office....

as you seem to be implying, let it be, if it gets the Repugnants OUT!

[Ioo]

24. Then what?

[madeline_con]

42. Oh, come on. Could they be worse than what we have?? n/t

[EFerrari]

17. I want to offer you this magic.

Do you think they were any less bought under Nixon?

Nope.

But, the SellOuts had to maintain an illusion of consensus, of governability.

The VietNam war protesters made that impossible.

We can make it impossible, too.

:hi:

[Ioo]

22. True, and we discussed this, Diffrent America, No Draft, No cost

Face it, the draft woke people up!

There is no wake up call, Bush hates Americans, and Americans don't care as long as they have American Idle on TV. I think that that was a very diffrent America.

[EFerrari]

29. Perhaps. But the same power is available to us today.

That hasn't changed. We can disrupt the illusion -- the boondoggle.

[stepnw1f]

30. If You Say So

Sure it was a different time, but not trying is doing nothing. Why would you encourage inaction?

[Ioo]

34. I do do stuff 789 Post on my BLOG, A Blog no one reads...

I mean, I AM doing...

[No Exit]

25. I like your answer!

Now that's the kind of mindset that can help us!

[EFerrari]

35. It's our choice to make.

:)

[No Exit]

54. Yeah--I guess We the Peepul are the elephant in the room.

We are that annoying entity that sometimes gets in the way of all the buying and selling in which our millionaire and billionaire high-roller "aristocracy" (also known as "congress") are constantly engaged.

Congress member's lament: "How is a person supposed to get rich when he keeps having to go around and waste time shaking hands and talking to people who actually have to do their own grocery shopping????"

[No Exit]

18. It's time WE started using THEM, instead of the other way around.

Okay, so as soon as I realized we were going into a needless, fraudulent, war in Iraq, I could no longer support Bush. Yes, I had even voted for this piece of crap in 2000!! Yes, I was even stupid enough to have voted almost always republican before that!!

So naturally, I became a Kerry supporter. (Although there were many on websites who tried to persuade me to vote 3rd party, I just felt that the 3rd party candidates didn't have a chance. I wish that were not the case, but it was.)

So I didn't just wake up one day and embrace the exact opposite position on each issue, opposite to the one I'd previously supported. No--I began reading what Kerry supporters had to say. I began to see that (in my opinion) these democrats were a whole lot more what I considered "American" than were the republican voters. I now have a new worldview, a sort of hybrid of what I used to be, and what I am now. Generally speaking, it leans towards the left now. But I still have a few views in common with republican voters. Just a few (but NONE relating the Bush.)

Anyway, when I first rejected Bush, I knew I'd have to vote for Kerry, and my first thought was, "If he turns out to be bad, he'll at LEAST be a first-term president who'll have to not be too bad, b/c he'll worry about re-election for the first 4 years." IOW, I was "using" Kerry.

Later, I came to see that Kerry, with all his flaws, is worlds better than Bush. But that's somewhat faint praise, I guess, since so many other politicians are also worlds better than this demented, vengeful, warmongering, murdering fucktard Bush.

Let's "use" the politicians. Let's not be afraid to use them and then to abandon them if they no longer work for us. C'mon, they deserve it. In return for being used by us, they get to be queen for a day or whatever.

[Cleita]

21. Ugh, about the tax and spend thing. I convinced a

Republican many years ago that we don't do that. I pointed out that usually when a Democrat is in charge whether in Washington or in the State governments, they often leave a surplus or at least pay down the debts considerably while funding needed social programs. So maybe they do tax a bit, but there is no big spend.

At that time Jerry Brown had left the California a surplus, which was swiftly spent by the next Republican Govenor. I pointed that out to him and being he wasn't a stupid Republican he had to agree. At the time he didn't want to vote Poppy Bush into a second term but was iffy about Clinton. I guess Clinton also left us with a surplus. I hope this Republican took note.

[stepnw1f]

26. I've Heard the Same Thing from Another Republican

Interesting, because he claimed the same thing while losing the argument, the same way your friend did with you.

[B Calm]

28. Cons have used this tactic for years. They try to discourage you

from voting. Don't fall for this crap! You can bet he'll have his elephant suit on when he votes in the next election!

[Ioo]

31. He voted for my DOG for President - He hates Bush, Hates Dems More.

He does not like BUSH, he hates the NEOCONS. He wrote in my dogs name, "Duffy the Vampire Slayer"

He wants me to vote...

But it is the ONE VOTE CAN'T CHANGE CRAP.

[B Calm]

39. So he says...

[Ioo]

41. I was there, it was funny, we were in those sutecase things...

We were side by side, he showed me is as we walked to the box...

He and I are great friends... He does not like Bush, but HATES DEMS!!

[tuvor]

32. Lead, follow, or...you know the rest. n/t

[Ioo]

36. Again, I blog my ass off, and no one reads it.

What more would you have me do?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

33. He's right. The whole system is corrupt and beyond reform.

It's a catch-22. The politicians chase money to get elected. The go to the corporations because that's where the money is. If they don't go to the corporations they don't get elected. The politicians who chase the money are the most corruptable. And, to add to the mess, the very politicians who collect the payoffs are the ones who would have to cut off their masters by reforming the system. Which places the idea of public funding in the Fat Chance catagory.

Of course, the whole thing supports the facade that this is a democracy rather than an oligarchy run by the rich and powerful.

[EFerrari]

38. Let's say, you are right (and I believe you are).

What can we do, regardless?

Upset the facade.

In a way, they make it very easy for us to do that by pretending that this is Stepford, that Iraq is going well, and so on. Their silly fatuous claims make our work EASIER.

lol

[Ioo]

37. Thanks for letting me rant, God Bless DU

[wadestock]

44. Your dam right

Just a bit one way or the other and you would have been locked.

[EFerrari]

48. Your rant raised important questions, questions that we all

can think about usefully.

Thanks for being here.

:hi:

[spacelady]

40. This is the sort of thinking that makes me want to

SCREEAAMMM, if it is falling on DEFT ears, we are speaking to an agile group. Of so, we must be more ADEPT at refuting their nonsense. These people will keep saying over and over again that we do not know what we are talking about, they will say it is too complicated for us to understand, they will wear us down to the nub, the nub being their agenda, which is certainly roll over and die, because WE (they) know best.

[EFerrari]

49. On the other hand, airing out the thoughts that make us weary

provide an opportunity for support and for brainstorming.

Scream but also lend your support to this poster. That's how we stay together and move ahead.

:)

[spacelady]

50. Yes, absolutely, it is a process of wearing down with words,

words are simply bombardment, why let words be their power?
"The pen is mightier than the sword" We Democrats have always had the advantage of the pen; now is the time to use it.

[kineneb]

45. do not give up

The ship of state may sink or not, but one must stand up for one's convictions. Yes, the government has been bought out, but there are still ways to change it without violence. If enough people simply stop buying into the corporate game, and stop giving them money, they will lose power (see Ghandi). The old hippies were right: turn on, tune out, drop out.

Refuse to give them power over your life. A great start is to throw out the TV. And don't shop at WalMart (comment from Hubby).

[Rainscents]

46. Cilvil right, womens right took 160 years and they didn't stop fighting!

If it takes another 160 years to take back our country from this neocon's, we must do it! NEVER EVER STOP FIGHTING FOR OUR DREAM!

[Lexingtonian]

51. Illegitimis non carborundum

-don't let the bastards grind you down. British WW2 educated war worker saying about their superiors.

It's easy to feel powerless and insignificant in the big picture. But we're individually all powerless and insignificant in the big picture, in a way, all the time. The same is true of Senators and even the President.

What's wrong about it is relativism, is submission to process and proceduralism and false equivalence, a lack of moral courage to in your own mind to insistently believe that a person who is the right deserves to win the verdict and majority support. Human beings are not equals in moral stature and dignity and merit.

In the big picture, we're through a four year period during which the American Right in its vanity imagined they could use their power to remake the world in their own image (whatever it is, not that they really checked it either). What it all really has been is a revisiting and rearguing and a partially resettling of Cold War wounds and traumas and ideas- a horrible, rage-filled and vile, therapy session. It was necessary in its own right, it brought all the collective dirt out from the depths and exposed it to the light, but it was simply awful. The collective psychological pressure to undergo it was so great in 2000 that the The People gave way to it, and since then has had to let it run its course.

It's a grief process for a dying pre-Modern world acted out in an ugly way- nasty Denial (2000/2001) in triumphalist form that this world was passing, then vicious Bargaining (2001-03) when 9/11 hit 'changing everything' and extreme measures could be taken to fight the many things feared and hated, and then Bitterness (2003/2004) as all the efforts to 'transform' the country and the world back to some ideal state started to end in failure.

We're now (2005/06) in the American Right's Depression phase, where the failure to change the fate of things- failure to turn back the clock- is conceded in actions but not admitted in words. All the Roe overturn/Christian Nation caste social order and New (colonial) World Order/Middle East puppet democracy domino effects and neo-feudal economics and Islamist extirpation fantasies are given up, proven impossible. They've lowered the bar to absolute control of themselves and adamantly persisting in the beliefs they hold about themselves and powers they have their hands on, to which they reject any outside authority or rule-based reduction or objective assessment. Right now they're more or less selling their usefulness on a few minor measures (illegal Latino workers, tax adjustments), they're emphasizing their last post-1968 conventionally believed credential- 'national security'. But by making it their strongpoint, they're at the same time putting it at risk and exposing it to attack.

In my opinion, yes, there is in one sense 'nothing we can do'. The failure of the Right's big projects and completion of their little ones are the political facts on which the present American politics of power turns. Democratic leaders largely have to wait these out and take possession of each such redoubt as Republicans fall back and weaken in sectors, incrementally tighten the siege and gun down counterattacks and burn out the support structure in the rear until the whole defense can be collapsed in one massed forward charge. Rather like the Union generals did to Lee's army at Petersburg in 1865. If you look at it long enough, The People has neutralized and is now using up this hardline incarnation of the Republican Party for a few more purposes, for some remaining dirty work, and exactly which of the two is truly stringing the other along is an interesting question.

But there's also a lot we can do to become the Party competent and worthy to lead into the future, which is the role The People has assigned Democrats (Republicans being the Party used to revel in and finish off the Past). It's a role a lot of leading Democrats are failing to comprehend- basically, the older the less accepting they are of having to be the guides to and enactors of a fully Modern, leading, society in a world increasingly Modern- freed of hard castes and caste privileges/oppressions and freed of hard theism and governed in a way structurally far more fair to the individual citizen. There's an awful lot to be done once the Right's stranglehold on national power breaks and not nearly enough Democrats ready to do or support the work that needs doing. That's what the Beltway politicians see as they look out on Democrats nationally. Gay marriage legalization, whatever your personal opinion about it, is the citadel that once taken secures all womens' rights gained. The postincarceration ex-felon disenfranchisement statutes are in effect the sources of largest diminishments of minority political civil rights and elections rights generally nationwide. There's one more fight brewing about Creationism. Once the key social divisiveness/injustice has disintegrated in the wake of such things becoming settled justly, you'd be surprised at the consensus and pressure and change and agreement on efficiencies that can be achieved in economic issues. Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country....

[FourStarDemocrat]

52. You're wrong about your Senators.

You wrote: "And you know what, he is right. I have 2 Democratic Senators, Byrd and Rockefeller, great senators for the most part, but I say this about ALL of them. Do I think that they give a crap about me? NO. Do I think that they would, if given a choose, do what is RIGHT by the people if it ment hurting their re-election, NO."

Both of your Senators stuck their necks out in the past two weeks on the Spygate issue. Rockerfeller released his handwritten letter decrying the wiretapping and publicly denied that Senate democrats went along with Bushco's survellience plans. Senator Byrd gave a massive speech on the floor of the Senate; taking Bush to task and calling for hearings on the issue when he easily could have kept his mouth shut. His speech,titled "No President is Above the Law" is online at truthout.org:

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/122005I.shtml

[Hubert Flottz]

62. Re: "You're wrong about your Senators."

I agree, very wrong.

What if Paul Revere had just thrown up his hands and said, "Oh SH*T...I'm too tired to go for a ride tonight!"

Life is a fight to the very last breath. I can't think of a more noble cause, to fight for, than a better quality of life for ALL. Our(civilization's )laws are what separates us from the apes and the warthogs. A nation without laws, is a nation of animals. Ruthless, PREDATORY, animals like Saddam, Hitler and Stalin.

I'm proud of my Senators from WV...

I do agree that Shellie Capito is a total rovebot!

[boobooday]

55. This is exactly their strategy

Hopelessness. They don't want us to see that we have power, to know that we have power, or to exercise our own power.

The fact is that it is a very small number of people who are screwing things up, and another fairly small group that enables/protects them.

We have to think massive economic/labor action. And publicly funded elections, and an end to the electoral college.

Also, their supply of "human capital" is drying up, as they betray the young men and women who volunteered to join the military, and new recruits are hard to come by. Those who support the war won't encourage their young to fight for it, and the usual crop of disenfranchised young men have become wise to their games.

But if we are hopeless and in despair, then they have won. They will not be brought down with a mighty blow, but rather a thousand stings, just as a determined swarm of wasps could bring down a mighty bear, or the way a thousand red fire ants can crawl up your shorts and disable you completely.

If we are ants, let us be fire ants!

[CJCRANE]

57. He's wrong...

not all politicians are the same - this current administration is the worst thing to happen to America in a long time.

Deep down he knows that's true, so do you, and four billion people out there in the world know it too.

[Toots]

58. Was your friend named Nader

Isn't that what Nader said and evberyone got so pissed over. "There is hardly any difference between the Parties anymore"... IMO he was far more right than wrong. Yes we would have been better off with either Gore or Kerry but the same shenanigans would continue to go on.

[BiggJawn]

59. I HAVE to keep voting, even if it is useless.

To just "give up" and start watching Monster Trux on Teeeeee-Veeeeeee all the time puts me lower than those "uneducated dolts" the OP referred to.

[rman]

60. Conyers, Kucinich, Boxer, Pelosi...

and a bunch of others, all bought and paid for?

Yes there is a very serious problem with corruption in politics, lack of true democracy, etc. But it's not _all_ that bad.

I think Ted Kennedy is correct in saying: "75% of Dems and 95% of Repubs are corrupt"

[mainer]

61. I'm tired. I have no sons in Iraq. Let 'em have their filthy war.

I too have gotten to the point where I've just about given up the fight. I'm tired of being called a traitor. I'm tired of trying to "support the troops" who insist on re-enlisting. I'm tired of pointing out to the misguided RWers that it's THEIR children who are dying for the neocons. When they say "real Americans don't cut and run," I've started to just nod and add, "Even if we have to lose 100,000 American soldiers! Even if it takes a million! Even if we sacrifice every drop of young American blood! Yes, you're right, you're absolutely right! America won't cut and run!"

And sometimes, the morons actually nod in agreement.

[wtmusic]

63. That's the Republican escape valve du jour

"All politicians suck."

"Can't be trusted."

"None of 'em care about us anyway."

(No, actually the president YOU voted for sucks a quantum leap above any other in American history. Bend over and accept some responsibility.)

[NuttyFluffers]

64. my reply would be, "then you advocate revolution, if you believe that..."

"because if you believe that the gov't no longer represents the american people, and you still hold fast to your love of your country and what it stands, then you must therefore advocate the overthrow of this government. because i give you more respect that you are not a traitor to this nation, and its people, including me and your other loved ones. because otherwise you tacitly support treason in betraying your country in the face of it, and its people's, enemies. you cannot have it both ways. either admit you are evil and support this, or that you are good and this cannot stand and must be changed now, or that you are good and this can be changed by peaceful, legal means within the system. those are the 3 choices. you denied the possibility of the peaceful, legal way, then you must commit to the choice between being a traitor and abiding, or being a patriot and revolt."

put him in between a rock and a hard place. people shouldn't be allowed to get away with idly dismissing the 3rd option of change within the system. you force them to take a side, and they must choose with full conviction. apathetically choosing evil to win is still a choice, and should be thrown in the face of every coward, self-serving, treasonous bastard, no matter how much history and love is between you. choose, for once in their sniveling, half-lived lives, they must openly choose.

it is sad to think that a nation of rebels and believers in the nobility of man has spawned a dark age of cowardly appeasers and base, self-serving opportunists. if that is what we have become we deserve our fall, every last excruciating second of it.

[PatriotGames]

68. Don't give up because some guy tells you it's all over!

[HuskerDU]

69. NO HOPE?!?

See- that's what gives me guts. D

[Joey Liberal]

70. Republicans would prefer that America fails

The republicans would prefer to see America fail rather than have the Democrats in the majority again. They know that their party and their president have blown it.

[Catherine Vincent]

71. Your friend says this because he knows republicans are so corrupt

that it's coming to light now. Did he say that when Dems in the past were caught with their hand in the cookie jar? I'll bet not. Now all of a sudden he (and the rest of the repukes) are saying what's the point, they're all corrupt.

[SammyWinstonJack]

72. I couldn't get past the 'tax and spend liberal" part!

What a crock! that is! These so called conservatives these past six years have been the borrow and spend party! And generations to come will pay for it!