Religious Correctness

[ruggerson]

Mods: this is meant for GD, as it is primarly a political argument, not a theological one.

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America has become a place where it is considered taboo in the marketplace of ideas to openly criticize people's faith.

Racism, sexism, warmongering, homophobia are all given political cover by those who shrilly denounce any faith critics as "religion bashers."

Religious correctness has created a society of extremes; the media and American citizens have been endlessly browbeaten, so that they are now dulled and uncritical of those on the fringes, indeed extremist views have actually been allowed to become mainstreamed, as long as they are expressed as an outcrop of "faith," the solemn mantra of those who cannot be touched by critical analysis.

This blind adherence to religious correctness has stripped this great nation of its ability to have a filter: to critically and rationally examine ideas, even inflammatory ones, which fly in the face of reason, logic and human civility.

Unless we can find a way to balance a healthy respect for ordinary people of faith with an ability to publicly and loudly denounce those who would seek to use faith as a cover for extremism, America will continue down the road to violent, fundamentalist chaos.

[Lib Grrrrl]

1. Fuck America

The country keeps going the way it is, then, once my mom dies, and I have no one left here, I am leaving this hellhole, to any fairly warm, English-speaking country that will treat me decently, respect me, give me a fair chance, and above all, protect me from the insane religious whackjobs that have taken over and destroyed the country I once loved.

[stepnw1f]

3. No You Don't

You are fighting... fuck that. Don't abandon us yet.

[Lib Grrrrl]

13. Bullshit!! I'm Running As Fast As I Can!!

Not enuff people, even here at DU and on the left - have my back. I'm transgender, and I just KNOW that my people are the first that are going to the concentration camps this time!

I'm getting the fuck out while the getting's still good...I'm sorry, but I don't trust ANYONE to raise an outcry over "freaks" like me being carted off to the crematoriums...and you know the whackjobs on the right would do it if they could...and I don't think all of us on the left can stop them...and I doubt that all here would even raise a protest at it.

[Glorfindel]

7. Good for you! If I could afford it, I'd have left already...

Maybe someday. I'm even willing to learn a foreign language. Tuscany looks SO GOOD right about now..

[varkam]

2. In three paragraphs or less...

that's one of the giant problems with the world today. In certain areas of the world and in certain regions of the US, it's considered taboo to even call someone's faith into question. "Do you think that maybe God doesn't hate gays?" BLASPHEMER! or you're just labeled as intolerant of other people's beliefs.

I submit that, on principle, I should not have to tolerate someone's belief system when it does demonstrable harm to fellow human beings.

[Ringo84]

9. Re:

Maybe God Hates Fundies.
Ringo

[Stinky The Clown]

4. Part of the problem is language

I often dcry the 'religious' people who use it as a cover for their very secular hatred. I know what I mean, and I suspect everyone else does, too. Even those I criticize. And yet, it is so easy for ordinary religious people to be offended and for the religiously insane to use my words against me.

Everyone on all sides of the debate knows what's going on. But the cover or the cudgel within the language is all too easy to use.

And so it goes. They've done a masterful job of perveting good for evil.

[paparush]

5. Everyone should read "The End of Faith" by Sam Harris

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0393035158/104-4591495-8016729?v=glance&n=283155

From Publishers Weekly
In this sometimes simplistic and misguided book, Harris calls for the end of religious faith in the modern world. Not only does such faith lack a rational base, he argues, but even the urge for religious toleration allows a too-easy acceptance of the motives of religious fundamentalists. Religious faith, according to Harris, requires its adherents to cling irrationally to mythic stories of ideal paradisiacal worlds (heaven and hell) that provide alternatives to their own everyday worlds. Moreover, innumerable acts of violence, he argues, can be attributed to a religious faith that clings uncritically to one set of dogmas or another. Very simply, religion is a form of terrorism for Harris.

[lildreamer316]

17. HIGHLY RECOMMEND!! READ this book!

He says exactly what you are saying here!

[deFaultLine]

25. Faith

The problem is that too many people disregard many of the admonitions of the Bible and Christianity. Caring for the poor and weak are central themes found in the Bible and greed is pointed out as a serious sin.

It would be a great help is socially concerned people could quote verses out of the Bible to counter the spurious claims made by ill informed religious people.

IMO, we need a return to religious values in that human beings are valued more than material wealth.

[papau]

6. Joseph Burstyn, Inc v Wilson 1952 killed US blasphemy law

now it just a case of how the discussion is phrased - good manners - with the danger of course being that all sides will claim mockery and bias and lies by partial truth - and all sides are likely to be correct.

I think it better to denounce Racism, sexism, warmongering, homophobia, etc. directly and leave the religion aspect - even if added by the other side - out of the discussion.

But that is just my opinion.

[ruggerson]

8. But the problem is

that a misuse of faith is at the root of all those things. If we just dicuss the offshoots of the problem, like trimming weeds, we accomplish very little.

[papau]

10. the roots of weeds hold the soil - and a weed is just a plant others may

want but you do not.

Trimming and controlling weeds makes for a nice life style - taking them out say by poison risks losing all plants and thereby our own life.

I think that max's out the weed analogy - and I apologize for going with it. It is late and it just flowed out.

In any case the wise know what can be accomplish, and what can not be accomplish and thereby leads only to strife. I am not "wise" but I suspect trimming is doable - and I do not know that more is possible and I do know that more would lead to strife.

Besides, the number of religious fundies is really rather small as a percentage of the population - I don't see them as a problem if we put them on "ignore" and work to protect our civil liberties.

[ruggerson]

12. I actually see them as the single greatest problem we face

because they are the one common demoninator behind a host of major issues.

[Ringo84]

11. "Ping"

Yeah, the fundies are often just as "politically correct" as they accuse "The Left" of being.

Religous freedom is a one-way street for those kooks. They expect everyone to kowtow to their belief system, but can't seem to handle their own beliefs being questioned. I'm not sure if it's hypocrisy as much as it's FEAR.

Maybe it makes them feel better to clutch so hard to such rigid rules. I don't know. Or it could be like Frank Burns on MASH. Frank used his rank of Major as a way to cover. It made him look strong when in fact he was actually a pretty insecure person. In the same way, fundies use strict adherence to rigid rules as a cover to make themselves look more religious than they really are.

This weak faith of theirs is challenged when someone questions their beliefs. It leaves them insecure, which is why they fight so hard for doctrinal conformity. It's like when Margaret, who was strength for Frank, dumped him in season four of MASH.

So don't be fooled. I tend to believe that religious liberals have more faith than fundies ever dreamed of having.

I probably went off on a tangent there. Sorry. Just my thoughts.
Ringo

[TreasonousBastard]

14. Not entirely...

it is taboo for me, a liberal Christian who has not been "born again" to criticize the fundagelicals.

It is taboo for Jews, Muslims, and other faiths to criticize the fundagelicals.

It is taboo for "secular humanists," atheists, agnostics and others to criticize tyhe fundagelicals.

However, it is not only perfectly acceptable for many fundagelicals to severely criticize liberal Christians, Catholics, members of other faiths, and people of no faith, but it is almost required of them to blame all of us for all of the world's problems. And to claim that our evil actions spring from a lack of proper faith.


Religion is not the problem-- people who will not shut the fuck up about their religion are the problem.

[Lib Grrrrl]

15. Amen, Brother!!

Religion is not the problem-- people who will not shut the fuck up about their religion are the problem.


Except I would take that a step further...her's what I would say...

Religion is not the problem-- people who will not shut the fuck up about their "religion" are the problem.

Note the quote marks. "Religion," "family values" it's all code words for them. It's a way for them to declare hate without owning up to it...but it's hate. and they excuse and hide their hate by cloaking it in the mantle of "religion.

It's not religion. I could put lipstick on a pig...the damned thing is still a pig.

[mikelewis]

18. Yup, that about sums it up...

They have abandoned their faith for the worship of this pig. God despises graven images and false idols and yet they trade the Kingdom of Heaven for this cult of personality? They're just a bunch of stupid assholes, if you ask me. Even the atheists I know have more respect for God than these people. At least they value truth and goodness; even if they don't name it God. These Hypocrites need to stop and entertain the idea that maybe they are the weeds among the wheat?

[papau]

22. I agree n/t

n/t

[Semblance]

16. Yes

America has become a place where it is considered taboo in the marketplace of ideas to openly criticize people's faith.

Exactly. Very well said. We've benefitted from the openness of political free speech. It is time for religious free speech. If someone can go on TV and say that lowering taxes on the wealthy is right or wrong, they should also be able to say that certain religious beliefs are true/not true.

The problem, however, is that many religious people really do not want to have their notions challenged in the marketplace of ideas. Too scary for them.

[Lib Grrrrl]

20. They Don't Want To Be Challenged

because they know it won't stand up...and it might...Heaven forbid...force them to think, or maybe even worse...to change their beliefs, to discard comfortable old prejudices!!

The fact is...for them, "religion" and "family values" are code words, anyway. They are code words that they use to speak about their hatreds, without calling them hatreds. It is how they excuse acting shitty towards enemies of their own choosing...often, people who never even did them any harm, whatsoever.

[papau]

23. tosay that certain religious beliefs are true/not true makes you the fundi

If a fundi starts a discussion in a public area not set aside for them - including public/civic debate, and claims truth to a given belief, I say jump in with your opinion.

It is the unnecessary in the face thing - by Fundi theist or atheist - that is so off-putting to me.

[earth mom]

19. Religion doesn't belong in Politics. Period.

What part of that do people not get? :argh:

[Lib Grrrrl]

21. No, No...

YOUR religion does not belong in politics...only MINE does... :sarcasm:

[papau]

24. LOL - :-) n/t

n/t